If Montreal is one of the best markets in baseball, why doesn't the team have decent TV and radio deals? You can blame some of the apathy on the stadium, but not all of it. The Mets play in a dump, and they suck, yet they still draw.
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If Montreal is one of the best markets in baseball, why doesn't the team have decent TV and radio deals? You can blame some of the apathy on the stadium, but not all of it. The Mets play in a dump, and they suck, yet they still draw.
It's true. There's only 29 better major league cities in the world.Quote:
Originally posted by sggg
They should fix baseball because Montréal is one of the best baseball markets out there.
Expos home opener attendance: 36 000
Expos 2nd home game attendance: 6000
They're baseball crazy!
You guys should do some research.
The attendance sucks now but there are very significant reasons why. The team has been run into the ground for 10 years. On purpose. The old owners of the team are suing Loria (the previous owner), Selig, and MLB under RICO (the thing they nailed Al Capone with) for conspiring to kill the franchise. That's why they are not on TV (btw: they are on the radio in both langugaes). They turned away the sponsors. They badmouthed the ballpark. They had firesales. They did everything possible to poison the market... to try to gain financial gain by moving the team and getting a publicly subsidised ballpark in the US....
That's just the previous regime. The owners twice removed (who are suing to regain control of the team) were not much better. You may remember them from such firesales as Larry Walker, Pedro Martínez, Marquis Grissom, Moises Alou, and so on. You may remember that the Expos were the best team in baseball in 1994. The people know this. They're mad. They care. They love baseball and they love "Nos Amours" and that's why they show up on opening day. They just don't care to support criminals who are trying to kill the team. they don't want to spend their hard earned money on a team everyone tells them is the living dead. If they announced that the team was staying in Montréal under new ownership and they would begin construction on the new ballpark ASAP you better believe there would be a huge spike in attendance. You can't blame people for not throwing good money after bad right now..
I suppose you are ignorant of the fact that as recently as 1996 the Expos outdrew the Mets. That's right... 1996!Quote:
If Montreal is one of the best markets in baseball, why doesn't the team have decent TV and radio deals? You can blame some of the apathy on the stadium, but not all of it. The Mets play in a dump, and they suck, yet they still draw.
Many teams in many sports have had periods where the attendance dipped so low. The Expos attendance from the past several years is still more fans than Braves and the Indians drew during their bad years in the 1980s! Plenty of other teams have had major dips in attendance and are doing well now, such as Seattle.
Burg, I believe you are a fan of the Islanders right? They are an excellent comparison for the Expos. That team with a proud history and great fans was run into the ground first by an absentee owner, then by a con artist who is now in jail, and then by other bad owners. They alienated fans. They sold off star players (they literally tried to sell Pálffy to the Rangers eh) and so on. The Isles attendance was pathetic for most of the 90s. People wanted them moved to Oklahoma and whatnot. What happened? The got a new owner. The marketed the team. They tried to compete and .... shock horror... and the fans came back - even tho' the Coliseum is a dump! It's no different for the Expos.
Ok, I'll respond to that with something I read on a baseball forum - Here are some other numbers from around MLB this week:Quote:
It's true. There's only 29 better major league cities in the world.
Expos home opener attendance: 36 000
Expos 2nd home game attendance: 6000
They're baseball crazy!
.. and that's not even counting the huge embarassment that Toronto -a team that is conspiring to kill the Expos to have a national market- has become with their paltry attendance - 13,333 in the last home game, not even a season low. They have played 9 home games and 6 of them have had under 14k. The other two were under 16.5k - the lone exception of 17k+ attendance was the home opener (oh the irony). How long before they are in "Expos territory"? 2 years?Quote:
¬ Tampa Bay: 9,221 attendance Wed.
¬ Florida: 9,182 attendance Wed.
¬ Pittsburgh: 1 year old new park and playing Barry Bonds and the 1st place Giants - 10,650 attendance Tues.
¬ Philadelphia: A team full of bought stars and close to 1st place - 13,444 attendance Wed. & 13,431 Tues.
¬ Oakland: 11,559 attendance Tues.
¬ Cincinnati: Brand spanking new park-19,029 attendance Tues.
I am not getting on the fans in those cities. Who can blame them either. MLB is a sick dying sport because it's been drivin into the ground by greed. The Expos are symptomatic of the great malaise that's killing MLB. I am just showing how it's not much different elsewhere, it's just more advance in Montréal for obvious reasons.
Amazingly, despite that, if you give the Expos a new downtown ballpark, real owners, and a commitment to staying in the city and they'd outdraw those numbers easy.
You guys may want to read up on baseball history a bit too. Baseball has been played in Québec since around the time of it's invention. Before being awarded the first Canadian franchise in MLB the old Royals were the Dodgers AAA team and started the careers of many Hall Of Fame players and witnesses Jackie Robinson's breaking of the colour barrier before he went on to Brooklyn. During the 70s the Expos were loved nationwide (before them moronically gave away national broadcast rights!?)... during the 80s the Expos has some of the best attendance in the league, despite only making the playoff one time. Even now, the die hard fans are among the most knowledgable, LOUD, and passionate ones out there. To put up with that they do is amazing. That so many continue to support the team is remarkable, all things considered.
Montréal didn't fail MLB, MLB failed Montréal.
I won't dispute that you know more about the Expos than me and that MLB is in a state of disarray, but what's the deal with them not having a television deal in Montreal? Every team has its share of hardcore fans, and while I feel for them, just like in the gaming industry and everywhere else, hardcore fans aren't enough by themselves to support anything.
Some of your comparisons are valid, but some of them don't make sense. Montreal should be posting better attendance in its second home game, compared to those of teams who have been playing at home all month. And some of those teams are downright awful. The Expos are making a run at a division title.
Sadly, it's just too little too late. Most people think the team is dead/leaving and unfortunately they are probably right. They are angry and bitter and don't want to bother with MLB. When you have been burned so many times you are wary. People fell in love with the team in the 81 strike season. They were in love with the 94 team when the season was cancelled. They fell in love with players that were traded for absolutely nothing... now they just don't want to be hurt again.
That's why I said that if it is announced that the team is staying the fans will surely return. They're not stupid. If the old owners win the RICO case and are awarded the team and treble damages and build a park with that money. They'll be back. But until it is announced that the team is staying (which is still quite unlikely) - they're dead to people and you can't blame them. There are better things to do here.. better places tro invest your money.
As for the television deal, they had one before Loria poisoned the market and purposefully killed any exposure the young and exciting team may get. He alienated the sponsors too. It's all well documented. Most business people, like the fans, believe that the team is dead and don't want to waste their investment/advertising money with no room for growth. If the team was staying, they would be willing to grow and redevelop the market. Until that happens the sponsors they have are essentially just charity right now (and considering the sad state of MLB, any potential owner of any team is also a charity - since you can't make money unless you're the Yankees/Dodgers). Oh, and the reason they're not on television is not ratings. The few games that were shown the past two years (in French)got great ratings. Some were even higher than Hab games, believe it or not.
I can't remember, but wasn't is just a chop shotted goal? A short hander off a rebound?Quote:
Originally posted by Clash_Master
WILD BABY! WIIIIIIILLLLLLLLLLD! Oh man I can't even begin to tell you how jazzed I am over the Wilds amazing 3-2 overtime victory! Brunette played Roy like a fiddle with that goal! It was pure magic on ice, not only was he getting poked by two Avalanche but he was mere inches from Roys stick when he pulled that puck back and slid it in to close the series! Take that Foresberg you cheap son of a bitch!
Belfour played better than Cujo all season. I think Cujo got a lot of unnecessary flak for his sweep as well. He played well, not excellent like Belfour, but well and Detroit as a whole takes the blame, not just Cujo.Quote:
Originally posted by StriderKyo
No! It was Belfour's fault they got outshot 65-30 in that one game!
Seriously though, 6 goals is not good, epecially in game 7. That's exactly the type of thing people criticize Cujo for. And Cujo's not a 38 year old drunk, which is kind of a bonus.
I think this is really the bottom line. Loria and MLB most definitely screwed up, but that's just a reason, not an excuse. If everyone thinks baseball is dead in Montreal, than baseball is dead in Montreal.Quote:
Originally posted by sggg
Most business people, like the fans, believe that the team is dead
I agree that this isn't peculiar to Montreal, although it may be worst there.
burgundy is right sggg. Problems aside, it's not the fans that keep the teams alive in the end and since they aren't attending the games to do so, they get the blame.
It's simple. The fans don't care what troubles Montreal Expos have had.
Sorta. The thing is, it's not irreversable. Like I keep saying - if they announced the team was staying put for good and a new stadium was en route... if they started marketing the team. If they got the team back on television.. if they did all these things (and they all go hand in hand) the fans would return in great numbers. Just like they did in Atlanta... in Cleveland.. in Seattle.. in New York.. and so on.Quote:
Originally posted by burgundy
I think this is really the bottom line. Loria and MLB most definitely screwed up, but that's just a reason, not an excuse. If everyone thinks baseball is dead in Montreal, than baseball is dead in Montreal.
Was hockey dead in Minnesota when the North Stars left? I think the Wild have proven with a good product, marketing, and non-criminal ownership that the NHL never should have left.
If Montréal ever gets a chance they'll show the same is true with MLB here.
ps. Is anyone watching this Stars-Ducks game?! Wow.. what a game!!!
SGGG, I never knew.:(