sggg - It's on Montreal (mostly) to provide a new stadium, and on the Montreal market to make a TV deal viable. Blaming everything on MLB just isn't fair.
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sggg - It's on Montreal (mostly) to provide a new stadium, and on the Montreal market to make a TV deal viable. Blaming everything on MLB just isn't fair.
I am not blaming it all on MLB. A large part of the problem has been created by ownership. Loria's actions were downright criminal, as I am sure the lawsuit will prove (and even if the team does not stay he should burn).
The local consortium that owned the team before he did was not much better either. They were the ones who committed the infamous firesales and started bad mouthing their own stadium in an attept to bully the government to finance a new stadium. To be fair, the reason for the firesales in the first place was the economic state of MLB though (which has gotten so much worse since 94) though. It's also the same reason why so many franchises are in dire straights and drawing flies and why no-one wants to invest in this or most other teams right now.
Anyway, in spite of all that you are right in that it is up to local people to save the team (if it is to be saved). The problem there is that you'd have to be insane to buy a MLB team right now. You won't make any money in a "small market" (and even if you did it would be a fraction of what you could make by properly investing those hundreds of millions of dollars). You'll almost definitely lose money. So you pretty much have to count on government subsidies and private billionaires who either A) want a "toy franchise" to play with or B) bascially accept the losses and give the team to their city basically as a charity or to boost their reputation.
Montréal, Québec, and Canada are not in the business of subsidising billionaire and millionaires who cannot run their own business properly. So, it all comes down to the lawsuit. That's the main effort of wealthy Canadians to save the team. They have sued for control of the team on the basis that MLB and Loria colluded to kill it. If they win they'll get the team back and hundreds of millions of dollars - enough for a stadium. They probably won't lose, but they may well just be looking for a settlement. So it's just a waiting game. We'll see what happens.
....
Back on topic (NHL), the Ducks-Stars are going to the 5th OT! It's the 4th longest game of all time already and there have been plenty of brilliant chances. This is one of the best games I have seen in a long time. I hope the Ducks can pull it off. :)
Also, the Devils looked brilliant again tonight. Woohoo! ;)
See, I know all that, but is it any worse than what Cubs fans go through every year? Or what Harold Ballard did to the Leafs for 20 years? Sure, there are reasons why the Expos lost alot of fans, but if Montreal were a great baseball city, they'd still be coming.Quote:
Originally posted by sggg
You guys should do some research.
The definition of a great city for any sport is that people go because they love the game, not because the local team's winning. Montreal is a great hockey city, you could even call Montreal a great football city, but I wouldn't say Montreal is a great baseball city.Quote:
You can't blame people for not throwing good money after bad right now.
And nobody would call Toronto a great baseball city. When they won those two World Series, everyone was a fan. Three years later, nobody could name five players.Quote:
and that's not even counting the huge embarassment that Toronto -a team that is conspiring to kill the Expos to have a national market- has become with their paltry attendance - 13,333 in the last home game, not even a season low. They have played 9 home games and 6 of them have had under 14k. The other two were under 16.5k - the lone exception of 17k+ attendance was the home opener (oh the irony).
Yep. MLB basically sucks ass.Quote:
Montréal didn't fail MLB, MLB failed Montréal.
As stated above - Stars/Ducks is crazy! I'm listening on the radio (no cable (TV ;))) and it is INSANE.
And go Stars. I'm just sad we have to beat the Ducks instead of them *shivers in hate* Red Wings! *GRRRR*
I still loves me some Hull, though!
#6
EDIT: DAMN!!! We'll be back you stinkin' Ducks!! :sweat:
PETR SÝKORA!!!! :):):)
Wow.. my favourite player not wearing a Devils uniform (anymore, heh). He got some personal revenge for the Cup clinching game of 2000 by beating those Stars in OT!!
What. A. Game! :)
No, they'd be stupid! :pQuote:
Originally posted by StriderKyo
See, I know all that, but is it any worse than what Cubs fans go through every year? Or what Harold Ballard did to the Leafs for 20 years? Sure, there are reasons why the Expos lost alot of fans, but if Montreal were a great baseball city, they'd still be coming.
They'd have a team that never wins - just like the Cubs and the Leafs. Great example! ;) Once ownership knows that the fans will show up no matter what, they often times stop spending the money and doing the things needed to win. There is no incentive.
I don't think a "good fan" shows up no matter what. I can understand why people do and I won't criticise them. But I don't see any reason why people should financially support a bad product, or in the case of the Expos - criminal ownership committed to killing the team they love. I know I would not. It's just common sense.
CFL eh? The Alouettes were deader than dead in this city (deader than the Expos) and now they are the toast of the town. First, the franchise folded.. and then the second version was near death when it was playing at the Big O. Thanks to a scheduling conflict at the Big O, they moved a playoff game to Molson Stadium in downtown Montréal and their resurgence began.Quote:
The definition of a great city for any sport is that people go because they love the game, not because the local team's winning. Montreal is a great hockey city, you could even call Montreal a great football city, but I wouldn't say Montreal is a great baseball city.
Whenever people speak about saving the Expos they always cite the example of the Alouettes, so thanks for bringing them up. ;)
Sad but true. I used to truly love baseball (and I used to be a Mets fan!), but now it makes me sick. :(Quote:
Yep. MLB basically sucks ass.
Well, some owners think it's cool to win. Things picked up immeasurably in this town once Stavro got the Leafs. They started making the playoffs (where the real money is made), tv ratings went up, and merchandise sales went through the roof. There's tons of motivation to win, gate revenue is only a fraction of a team's income.Quote:
Originally posted by sggg
No, they'd be stupid! :p
They'd have a team that never wins - just like the Cubs and the Leafs. Great example! ;) Once ownership knows that the fans will show up no matter what, they often times stop spending the money and doing the things needed to win. There is no incentive.
:lol: you're such a Montrealer. Seriously, I'll go to see the Jays because I want to watch a baseball game, I won't stay home because they traded Raul Mondesi or whatever.Quote:
I don't think a "good fan" shows up no matter what. I can understand why people do and I won't criticise them. But I don't see any reason why people should financially support a bad product, or in the case of the Expos - criminal ownership committed to killing the team they love. I know I would not. It's just common sense.
Same with the Raptors - I love the NBA, so even though they were basically an NBDL team thi year (emphasis on the DL) I still watched a ton of games because whatever the final score, I know I'll see a ton of great plays that I could never pull of in real life.
And besides, if you don't support them, they're only going to get worse, right? Or in the case of the 'spos, gone altogether and all you've done is shot yourself in the foot.
Yep. Question is, what happens when they go 2-15 and lose to the Argos 61-13 three years in a row? Will people keep coming? They have, coincidentally been a consistently excellent team since moving from Baltimore, which may have coloured the results some.Quote:
CFL eh? The Alouettes were deader than dead in this city (deader than the Expos) and now they are the toast of the town. First, the franchise folded.. and then the second version was near death when it was playing at the Big O. Thanks to a scheduling conflict at the Big O, they moved a playoff game to Molson Stadium in downtown Montréal and their resurgence began.
The Argos were huge in the early 90s when they had Rocket Ismail and Doug Flutie, and John Candy and Wayne Gretzky owned the team. They used to pack the Skydome. Now, even with Tony Hawk and Shaggy at halftime they're lucky to pull 15k.
Bite me. But yeah, what a game! Stars in 6. Go Stars!Quote:
Originally posted by sggg
PETR SÝKORA!!!! :):):)
He got some personal revenge for the Cup clinching game of 2000 by beating those Stars in OT!!
What. A. Game! :)
--Scourge .
Why the hell is all this baseball bullshit in a hockey thread? All that needs to be said about baseball is that the Expos need to move to northern VA, and the Blue Jays need to move somewhere where their players can be paid in something other than monopoly money.
Back on topic... is it too early to start readying the brooms for Tampa?
I'll take that as a compliment. I have not even lived here for 2 years yet and I seem to be fitting in well. ;)Quote:
Originally posted by StriderKyo
:lol: you're such a Montrealer.
Well, the die-hards who do still go to the games feel the same way. When I was little in the 80s I would always go to see the NJ Devils even tho they were the worst team in hockey and the arena was half empty. I just loved the team and the experience.. and the arena was a 10m drive from my house. It was fun and convenient.Quote:
Seriously, I'll go to see the Jays because I want to watch a baseball game, I won't stay home because they traded Raul Mondesi or whatever.
Same with the Raptors - I love the NBA, so even though they were basically an NBDL team thi year (emphasis on the DL) I still watched a ton of games because whatever the final score, I know I'll see a ton of great plays that I could never pull of in real life.
With the Expos it's not. It's inconvenient and painful. If they were downtown and staying in the city, they'd be drawing over 20k even if they were in last place. Remember this is a team that's only made the playoffs once in their history and they used to draw very well at the Big O in spite of that.
There are too many other things to do in Montréal in the summer. There are the festivals and the Grand Prix and the Montréal Impact (woohoo). People just don't want to go all the way out to the East End to be trapped inside a dank dome watching a team that is supposedly leaving when they could be so many other things. If the team was here for good, then more people would put up with the inconveniences - like they did in the past when the place was full.
It will be interesting to find out what happens. I am not sure... I actually don't agree with you when you said it's a "football town". The Als are just a trendy thing right now. They don't seem to have the hardcore passionate fanbase that the Expos have. Even if they're not showing up at the Big O, people care about the Expos and cherish the team and the memories. They're not called "Nos Amours" for nothing. With the Als people mainly go to the games because it's the flavour of the month. Maybe people would continue to go to the games though. The fact that Molson Stadium is outdoors and downtown helps so much. I guess we'll see when it happens.Quote:
Yep. Question is, what happens when they go 2-15 and lose to the Argos 61-13 three years in a row? Will people keep coming? They have, coincidentally been a consistently excellent team since moving from Baltimore, which may have coloured the results some.
On a side note, I can see into Molson Stadium from the my window next to my desk.. and if I look in the opposite direction I can see Olympic Stadium. :)