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WILD WIN!!!!!!!!!! WOOOHOO!! BYE BYE ROY!
WILD!!!!
Wooooooohoooooooooo!!!!!!!! :):):):)
SEE YA FORSBERG! DICK.
What a great game!
--Scourge .
Roy got OWNED in OT!
Major dilemma now though...... I don't know who to root for in the brilliant second round matchup Minnesota v- Vancouver! These are my two favourite Western conference teams and I really love them both.
Ah well, I guess you can't go wrong. I'll definitely have a rooting interest in the Western Conf Finals at the very least! ;)
Yeah, Roy got taken out of position BIGTIME on that one! That was sweet! Minnesota is my adopted state after tonight. The Timberwolves beat the Lakers by 28 points too! Woohoo!!!
--Scourge .
Nice to see the Wild win and the Leafs lose.
Hah! I told this whole city about the Leafs...Belfour's not gonna get them anywhere, dammit! 6 game 7 goals later, I am the winner!
I stopped watching at 3-zip. I could see where that one was headed.
I'm gonna break the cardinal rule of cheering for other Canadian teams and keep rooting for the Wild. And I hope the Sens get swept. Y'know, again. Tampa Bay-Minnesota Cup final, baby!
You watched that long?Quote:
Originally posted by StriderKyo
I stopped watching at 3-zip. I could see where that one was headed.
Belfour played good the whole series, Kyo. It was the defense above everything else. If they can get so many shots on net, they're bound to get a goal, and they did. Either way, no excuses, the Leafs played like shit and Philly deserves to go on.
Up until game 7, it was a good series.
I want the Senators to win now. Only because I'm originally from Ottawa now living in Toronto, so I switch. But I bet Philly will ream through them as well. It would be amazing to have Ottawa vs. Vancouver in the finals, though. hehe.
I either want that or the Wild to win just because it's fresh.
Like Andrew said, they played like they were on a perpetual power-play. Disgusting... then again half the team was injured.
In short it was not Belfours fault. I think on Coaches Corner, Cherry correctly pointed out that one of the first two goals was the defensemen's fault(putting his stick on the ice to block a shot), not Belfour's .
WILD BABY! WIIIIIIILLLLLLLLLLD! Oh man I can't even begin to tell you how jazzed I am over the Wilds amazing 3-2 overtime victory! Brunette played Roy like a fiddle with that goal! It was pure magic on ice, not only was he getting poked by two Avalanche but he was mere inches from Roys stick when he pulled that puck back and slid it in to close the series! Take that Foresberg you cheap son of a bitch!
And I am also quite glad that the Canucks won as well, as I think the Wild fare much better against them then we do against the Avalanche, so this upcoming series should be kick ass as well, plus I like the Canucks.
And I almost kinda half root for the Stars to beat Aneheim, even though it would be tough for the Wild to beat them if we do beat the Cancucks, but the pure hysteria that would explode in the state of minnesota of a Western Chamionship between the Minnesota Wild and the team that broke our hearts the Dallas Stars, well I can't even explain how amazing that would be.
As for the East I got to root for the Sens to go all the way. I don't really care for the Flyers, or the Bolts, or the Devils. But the Sens need a Economical boost, and a Championship visit would be great for them.
I can't wait for Friday, Game One Wild vs. Canucks, its going to be awesome!
Yeah, that's what I'm looking for too! That is going to be some loud home games for the Wild! It's going to be nuts if it happens. And it better damn well happen. I was happy for the Ducks sweeping and all, but now they're up against my team. The last 3 games of the Stars/Oilers series gelled the Stars for the playoffs, so I think Dallas is coming prepared. Can't wait for Thursday night.Quote:
Originally posted by Clash_Master
And I almost kinda half root for the Stars to beat Aneheim, even though it would be tough for the Wild to beat them if we do beat the Cancucks, but the pure hysteria that would explode in the state of minnesota of a Western Chamionship between the Minnesota Wild and the team that broke our hearts the Dallas Stars, well I can't even explain how amazing that would be.
--Scourge .
No! It was Belfour's fault they got outshot 65-30 in that one game!Quote:
Originally posted by Andrew
Belfour played good the whole series, Kyo. It was the defense above everything else. If they can get so many shots on net, they're bound to get a goal, and they did. Either way, no excuses, the Leafs played like shit and Philly deserves to go on.
Seriously though, 6 goals is not good, epecially in game 7. That's exactly the type of thing people criticize Cujo for. And Cujo's not a 38 year old drunk, which is kind of a bonus.
I still feel icky rooting for Philadelphia but... that was a brrrrilliant result last night! I am so happy the Leafs are gone! Now I can go back to my regularly scheduled hating of the Flyers. ;)
Last night I went to the Expos home opener, so I could not watch the Leafs-Flyers match... and since they do not show hockey scores on the out of town scoreboard no-one knew the score. But some guy scrawled the score on a piece of cardboard and walked around the stadium holding it up and got great cheers from us Toronto hating partisans! ;)
Strider: I think in game seven, dude got pissed. Wouldn't you? Why try?
SGGG: Dude, I saw the highlights for the Montreal game. Holy fuck there were people in the stands!!! Like, a lot of people!!! Finally, some support! Whatever, it'll end as I'm sure this'll be their last year. I'll be going to one game this year (was supposed to do it last year; plans didn't pan out).
???Quote:
Originally posted by sggg
Last night I went to the Expos home opener
Baseball has been going on for a month now and the Expos are just now having their first home game?!
They played their first homestand in San Juan.
I knew they played there, but I did not know they played there for their home games the first month. They should move them there.
No they shouldn't. They were getting under 14k a game in San Juan. It was a joke. They should fix baseball because Montréal is one of the best baseball markets out there. We'll see what happens when RICO is settled.
If Montreal is one of the best markets in baseball, why doesn't the team have decent TV and radio deals? You can blame some of the apathy on the stadium, but not all of it. The Mets play in a dump, and they suck, yet they still draw.
It's true. There's only 29 better major league cities in the world.Quote:
Originally posted by sggg
They should fix baseball because Montréal is one of the best baseball markets out there.
Expos home opener attendance: 36 000
Expos 2nd home game attendance: 6000
They're baseball crazy!
You guys should do some research.
The attendance sucks now but there are very significant reasons why. The team has been run into the ground for 10 years. On purpose. The old owners of the team are suing Loria (the previous owner), Selig, and MLB under RICO (the thing they nailed Al Capone with) for conspiring to kill the franchise. That's why they are not on TV (btw: they are on the radio in both langugaes). They turned away the sponsors. They badmouthed the ballpark. They had firesales. They did everything possible to poison the market... to try to gain financial gain by moving the team and getting a publicly subsidised ballpark in the US....
That's just the previous regime. The owners twice removed (who are suing to regain control of the team) were not much better. You may remember them from such firesales as Larry Walker, Pedro Martínez, Marquis Grissom, Moises Alou, and so on. You may remember that the Expos were the best team in baseball in 1994. The people know this. They're mad. They care. They love baseball and they love "Nos Amours" and that's why they show up on opening day. They just don't care to support criminals who are trying to kill the team. they don't want to spend their hard earned money on a team everyone tells them is the living dead. If they announced that the team was staying in Montréal under new ownership and they would begin construction on the new ballpark ASAP you better believe there would be a huge spike in attendance. You can't blame people for not throwing good money after bad right now..
I suppose you are ignorant of the fact that as recently as 1996 the Expos outdrew the Mets. That's right... 1996!Quote:
If Montreal is one of the best markets in baseball, why doesn't the team have decent TV and radio deals? You can blame some of the apathy on the stadium, but not all of it. The Mets play in a dump, and they suck, yet they still draw.
Many teams in many sports have had periods where the attendance dipped so low. The Expos attendance from the past several years is still more fans than Braves and the Indians drew during their bad years in the 1980s! Plenty of other teams have had major dips in attendance and are doing well now, such as Seattle.
Burg, I believe you are a fan of the Islanders right? They are an excellent comparison for the Expos. That team with a proud history and great fans was run into the ground first by an absentee owner, then by a con artist who is now in jail, and then by other bad owners. They alienated fans. They sold off star players (they literally tried to sell Pálffy to the Rangers eh) and so on. The Isles attendance was pathetic for most of the 90s. People wanted them moved to Oklahoma and whatnot. What happened? The got a new owner. The marketed the team. They tried to compete and .... shock horror... and the fans came back - even tho' the Coliseum is a dump! It's no different for the Expos.
Ok, I'll respond to that with something I read on a baseball forum - Here are some other numbers from around MLB this week:Quote:
It's true. There's only 29 better major league cities in the world.
Expos home opener attendance: 36 000
Expos 2nd home game attendance: 6000
They're baseball crazy!
.. and that's not even counting the huge embarassment that Toronto -a team that is conspiring to kill the Expos to have a national market- has become with their paltry attendance - 13,333 in the last home game, not even a season low. They have played 9 home games and 6 of them have had under 14k. The other two were under 16.5k - the lone exception of 17k+ attendance was the home opener (oh the irony). How long before they are in "Expos territory"? 2 years?Quote:
¬ Tampa Bay: 9,221 attendance Wed.
¬ Florida: 9,182 attendance Wed.
¬ Pittsburgh: 1 year old new park and playing Barry Bonds and the 1st place Giants - 10,650 attendance Tues.
¬ Philadelphia: A team full of bought stars and close to 1st place - 13,444 attendance Wed. & 13,431 Tues.
¬ Oakland: 11,559 attendance Tues.
¬ Cincinnati: Brand spanking new park-19,029 attendance Tues.
I am not getting on the fans in those cities. Who can blame them either. MLB is a sick dying sport because it's been drivin into the ground by greed. The Expos are symptomatic of the great malaise that's killing MLB. I am just showing how it's not much different elsewhere, it's just more advance in Montréal for obvious reasons.
Amazingly, despite that, if you give the Expos a new downtown ballpark, real owners, and a commitment to staying in the city and they'd outdraw those numbers easy.
You guys may want to read up on baseball history a bit too. Baseball has been played in Québec since around the time of it's invention. Before being awarded the first Canadian franchise in MLB the old Royals were the Dodgers AAA team and started the careers of many Hall Of Fame players and witnesses Jackie Robinson's breaking of the colour barrier before he went on to Brooklyn. During the 70s the Expos were loved nationwide (before them moronically gave away national broadcast rights!?)... during the 80s the Expos has some of the best attendance in the league, despite only making the playoff one time. Even now, the die hard fans are among the most knowledgable, LOUD, and passionate ones out there. To put up with that they do is amazing. That so many continue to support the team is remarkable, all things considered.
Montréal didn't fail MLB, MLB failed Montréal.
I won't dispute that you know more about the Expos than me and that MLB is in a state of disarray, but what's the deal with them not having a television deal in Montreal? Every team has its share of hardcore fans, and while I feel for them, just like in the gaming industry and everywhere else, hardcore fans aren't enough by themselves to support anything.
Some of your comparisons are valid, but some of them don't make sense. Montreal should be posting better attendance in its second home game, compared to those of teams who have been playing at home all month. And some of those teams are downright awful. The Expos are making a run at a division title.
Sadly, it's just too little too late. Most people think the team is dead/leaving and unfortunately they are probably right. They are angry and bitter and don't want to bother with MLB. When you have been burned so many times you are wary. People fell in love with the team in the 81 strike season. They were in love with the 94 team when the season was cancelled. They fell in love with players that were traded for absolutely nothing... now they just don't want to be hurt again.
That's why I said that if it is announced that the team is staying the fans will surely return. They're not stupid. If the old owners win the RICO case and are awarded the team and treble damages and build a park with that money. They'll be back. But until it is announced that the team is staying (which is still quite unlikely) - they're dead to people and you can't blame them. There are better things to do here.. better places tro invest your money.
As for the television deal, they had one before Loria poisoned the market and purposefully killed any exposure the young and exciting team may get. He alienated the sponsors too. It's all well documented. Most business people, like the fans, believe that the team is dead and don't want to waste their investment/advertising money with no room for growth. If the team was staying, they would be willing to grow and redevelop the market. Until that happens the sponsors they have are essentially just charity right now (and considering the sad state of MLB, any potential owner of any team is also a charity - since you can't make money unless you're the Yankees/Dodgers). Oh, and the reason they're not on television is not ratings. The few games that were shown the past two years (in French)got great ratings. Some were even higher than Hab games, believe it or not.
I can't remember, but wasn't is just a chop shotted goal? A short hander off a rebound?Quote:
Originally posted by Clash_Master
WILD BABY! WIIIIIIILLLLLLLLLLD! Oh man I can't even begin to tell you how jazzed I am over the Wilds amazing 3-2 overtime victory! Brunette played Roy like a fiddle with that goal! It was pure magic on ice, not only was he getting poked by two Avalanche but he was mere inches from Roys stick when he pulled that puck back and slid it in to close the series! Take that Foresberg you cheap son of a bitch!
Belfour played better than Cujo all season. I think Cujo got a lot of unnecessary flak for his sweep as well. He played well, not excellent like Belfour, but well and Detroit as a whole takes the blame, not just Cujo.Quote:
Originally posted by StriderKyo
No! It was Belfour's fault they got outshot 65-30 in that one game!
Seriously though, 6 goals is not good, epecially in game 7. That's exactly the type of thing people criticize Cujo for. And Cujo's not a 38 year old drunk, which is kind of a bonus.
I think this is really the bottom line. Loria and MLB most definitely screwed up, but that's just a reason, not an excuse. If everyone thinks baseball is dead in Montreal, than baseball is dead in Montreal.Quote:
Originally posted by sggg
Most business people, like the fans, believe that the team is dead
I agree that this isn't peculiar to Montreal, although it may be worst there.
burgundy is right sggg. Problems aside, it's not the fans that keep the teams alive in the end and since they aren't attending the games to do so, they get the blame.
It's simple. The fans don't care what troubles Montreal Expos have had.
Sorta. The thing is, it's not irreversable. Like I keep saying - if they announced the team was staying put for good and a new stadium was en route... if they started marketing the team. If they got the team back on television.. if they did all these things (and they all go hand in hand) the fans would return in great numbers. Just like they did in Atlanta... in Cleveland.. in Seattle.. in New York.. and so on.Quote:
Originally posted by burgundy
I think this is really the bottom line. Loria and MLB most definitely screwed up, but that's just a reason, not an excuse. If everyone thinks baseball is dead in Montreal, than baseball is dead in Montreal.
Was hockey dead in Minnesota when the North Stars left? I think the Wild have proven with a good product, marketing, and non-criminal ownership that the NHL never should have left.
If Montréal ever gets a chance they'll show the same is true with MLB here.
ps. Is anyone watching this Stars-Ducks game?! Wow.. what a game!!!
SGGG, I never knew.:(
sggg - It's on Montreal (mostly) to provide a new stadium, and on the Montreal market to make a TV deal viable. Blaming everything on MLB just isn't fair.
I am not blaming it all on MLB. A large part of the problem has been created by ownership. Loria's actions were downright criminal, as I am sure the lawsuit will prove (and even if the team does not stay he should burn).
The local consortium that owned the team before he did was not much better either. They were the ones who committed the infamous firesales and started bad mouthing their own stadium in an attept to bully the government to finance a new stadium. To be fair, the reason for the firesales in the first place was the economic state of MLB though (which has gotten so much worse since 94) though. It's also the same reason why so many franchises are in dire straights and drawing flies and why no-one wants to invest in this or most other teams right now.
Anyway, in spite of all that you are right in that it is up to local people to save the team (if it is to be saved). The problem there is that you'd have to be insane to buy a MLB team right now. You won't make any money in a "small market" (and even if you did it would be a fraction of what you could make by properly investing those hundreds of millions of dollars). You'll almost definitely lose money. So you pretty much have to count on government subsidies and private billionaires who either A) want a "toy franchise" to play with or B) bascially accept the losses and give the team to their city basically as a charity or to boost their reputation.
Montréal, Québec, and Canada are not in the business of subsidising billionaire and millionaires who cannot run their own business properly. So, it all comes down to the lawsuit. That's the main effort of wealthy Canadians to save the team. They have sued for control of the team on the basis that MLB and Loria colluded to kill it. If they win they'll get the team back and hundreds of millions of dollars - enough for a stadium. They probably won't lose, but they may well just be looking for a settlement. So it's just a waiting game. We'll see what happens.
....
Back on topic (NHL), the Ducks-Stars are going to the 5th OT! It's the 4th longest game of all time already and there have been plenty of brilliant chances. This is one of the best games I have seen in a long time. I hope the Ducks can pull it off. :)
Also, the Devils looked brilliant again tonight. Woohoo! ;)
See, I know all that, but is it any worse than what Cubs fans go through every year? Or what Harold Ballard did to the Leafs for 20 years? Sure, there are reasons why the Expos lost alot of fans, but if Montreal were a great baseball city, they'd still be coming.Quote:
Originally posted by sggg
You guys should do some research.
The definition of a great city for any sport is that people go because they love the game, not because the local team's winning. Montreal is a great hockey city, you could even call Montreal a great football city, but I wouldn't say Montreal is a great baseball city.Quote:
You can't blame people for not throwing good money after bad right now.
And nobody would call Toronto a great baseball city. When they won those two World Series, everyone was a fan. Three years later, nobody could name five players.Quote:
and that's not even counting the huge embarassment that Toronto -a team that is conspiring to kill the Expos to have a national market- has become with their paltry attendance - 13,333 in the last home game, not even a season low. They have played 9 home games and 6 of them have had under 14k. The other two were under 16.5k - the lone exception of 17k+ attendance was the home opener (oh the irony).
Yep. MLB basically sucks ass.Quote:
Montréal didn't fail MLB, MLB failed Montréal.
As stated above - Stars/Ducks is crazy! I'm listening on the radio (no cable (TV ;))) and it is INSANE.
And go Stars. I'm just sad we have to beat the Ducks instead of them *shivers in hate* Red Wings! *GRRRR*
I still loves me some Hull, though!
#6
EDIT: DAMN!!! We'll be back you stinkin' Ducks!! :sweat:
PETR SÝKORA!!!! :):):)
Wow.. my favourite player not wearing a Devils uniform (anymore, heh). He got some personal revenge for the Cup clinching game of 2000 by beating those Stars in OT!!
What. A. Game! :)
No, they'd be stupid! :pQuote:
Originally posted by StriderKyo
See, I know all that, but is it any worse than what Cubs fans go through every year? Or what Harold Ballard did to the Leafs for 20 years? Sure, there are reasons why the Expos lost alot of fans, but if Montreal were a great baseball city, they'd still be coming.
They'd have a team that never wins - just like the Cubs and the Leafs. Great example! ;) Once ownership knows that the fans will show up no matter what, they often times stop spending the money and doing the things needed to win. There is no incentive.
I don't think a "good fan" shows up no matter what. I can understand why people do and I won't criticise them. But I don't see any reason why people should financially support a bad product, or in the case of the Expos - criminal ownership committed to killing the team they love. I know I would not. It's just common sense.
CFL eh? The Alouettes were deader than dead in this city (deader than the Expos) and now they are the toast of the town. First, the franchise folded.. and then the second version was near death when it was playing at the Big O. Thanks to a scheduling conflict at the Big O, they moved a playoff game to Molson Stadium in downtown Montréal and their resurgence began.Quote:
The definition of a great city for any sport is that people go because they love the game, not because the local team's winning. Montreal is a great hockey city, you could even call Montreal a great football city, but I wouldn't say Montreal is a great baseball city.
Whenever people speak about saving the Expos they always cite the example of the Alouettes, so thanks for bringing them up. ;)
Sad but true. I used to truly love baseball (and I used to be a Mets fan!), but now it makes me sick. :(Quote:
Yep. MLB basically sucks ass.
Well, some owners think it's cool to win. Things picked up immeasurably in this town once Stavro got the Leafs. They started making the playoffs (where the real money is made), tv ratings went up, and merchandise sales went through the roof. There's tons of motivation to win, gate revenue is only a fraction of a team's income.Quote:
Originally posted by sggg
No, they'd be stupid! :p
They'd have a team that never wins - just like the Cubs and the Leafs. Great example! ;) Once ownership knows that the fans will show up no matter what, they often times stop spending the money and doing the things needed to win. There is no incentive.
:lol: you're such a Montrealer. Seriously, I'll go to see the Jays because I want to watch a baseball game, I won't stay home because they traded Raul Mondesi or whatever.Quote:
I don't think a "good fan" shows up no matter what. I can understand why people do and I won't criticise them. But I don't see any reason why people should financially support a bad product, or in the case of the Expos - criminal ownership committed to killing the team they love. I know I would not. It's just common sense.
Same with the Raptors - I love the NBA, so even though they were basically an NBDL team thi year (emphasis on the DL) I still watched a ton of games because whatever the final score, I know I'll see a ton of great plays that I could never pull of in real life.
And besides, if you don't support them, they're only going to get worse, right? Or in the case of the 'spos, gone altogether and all you've done is shot yourself in the foot.
Yep. Question is, what happens when they go 2-15 and lose to the Argos 61-13 three years in a row? Will people keep coming? They have, coincidentally been a consistently excellent team since moving from Baltimore, which may have coloured the results some.Quote:
CFL eh? The Alouettes were deader than dead in this city (deader than the Expos) and now they are the toast of the town. First, the franchise folded.. and then the second version was near death when it was playing at the Big O. Thanks to a scheduling conflict at the Big O, they moved a playoff game to Molson Stadium in downtown Montréal and their resurgence began.
The Argos were huge in the early 90s when they had Rocket Ismail and Doug Flutie, and John Candy and Wayne Gretzky owned the team. They used to pack the Skydome. Now, even with Tony Hawk and Shaggy at halftime they're lucky to pull 15k.
Bite me. But yeah, what a game! Stars in 6. Go Stars!Quote:
Originally posted by sggg
PETR SÝKORA!!!! :):):)
He got some personal revenge for the Cup clinching game of 2000 by beating those Stars in OT!!
What. A. Game! :)
--Scourge .
Why the hell is all this baseball bullshit in a hockey thread? All that needs to be said about baseball is that the Expos need to move to northern VA, and the Blue Jays need to move somewhere where their players can be paid in something other than monopoly money.
Back on topic... is it too early to start readying the brooms for Tampa?
I'll take that as a compliment. I have not even lived here for 2 years yet and I seem to be fitting in well. ;)Quote:
Originally posted by StriderKyo
:lol: you're such a Montrealer.
Well, the die-hards who do still go to the games feel the same way. When I was little in the 80s I would always go to see the NJ Devils even tho they were the worst team in hockey and the arena was half empty. I just loved the team and the experience.. and the arena was a 10m drive from my house. It was fun and convenient.Quote:
Seriously, I'll go to see the Jays because I want to watch a baseball game, I won't stay home because they traded Raul Mondesi or whatever.
Same with the Raptors - I love the NBA, so even though they were basically an NBDL team thi year (emphasis on the DL) I still watched a ton of games because whatever the final score, I know I'll see a ton of great plays that I could never pull of in real life.
With the Expos it's not. It's inconvenient and painful. If they were downtown and staying in the city, they'd be drawing over 20k even if they were in last place. Remember this is a team that's only made the playoffs once in their history and they used to draw very well at the Big O in spite of that.
There are too many other things to do in Montréal in the summer. There are the festivals and the Grand Prix and the Montréal Impact (woohoo). People just don't want to go all the way out to the East End to be trapped inside a dank dome watching a team that is supposedly leaving when they could be so many other things. If the team was here for good, then more people would put up with the inconveniences - like they did in the past when the place was full.
It will be interesting to find out what happens. I am not sure... I actually don't agree with you when you said it's a "football town". The Als are just a trendy thing right now. They don't seem to have the hardcore passionate fanbase that the Expos have. Even if they're not showing up at the Big O, people care about the Expos and cherish the team and the memories. They're not called "Nos Amours" for nothing. With the Als people mainly go to the games because it's the flavour of the month. Maybe people would continue to go to the games though. The fact that Molson Stadium is outdoors and downtown helps so much. I guess we'll see when it happens.Quote:
Yep. Question is, what happens when they go 2-15 and lose to the Argos 61-13 three years in a row? Will people keep coming? They have, coincidentally been a consistently excellent team since moving from Baltimore, which may have coloured the results some.
On a side note, I can see into Molson Stadium from the my window next to my desk.. and if I look in the opposite direction I can see Olympic Stadium. :)
My backup team has just beaten Philly in to a bloody pulp! I hope to hell that they win the series. Ottawa is where I hail from, originally, but when it comes down to it I always root for T.O.
Since they're out in a fit of shame, Ottawa remains my only option which isn't a bad one because they're #1 in the league right now, anyway, which says a lot because they're all taking huge paycuts.
Also, Anaheim - Stars was a great game. 5 over time periods! Both teams looked like shit in the end, understandably, but it was a good game and Anaheim continues its undefeated playoff streak.
Giguere made a huge glove save in 4 OT. It was cool.
Oh and sggg, a new arena is NOT a good option, if they can help it. Look at Ottawa and the Corel centre, the thing cost to much that even with so much attendance they still don't churn a big enough profit.
I swear to god, if I need to put up my Bring Back the Senators sticker, I will. Well, since I never actually took it down, I deserve a pat on the back.
Wow.. that was quite a thrilling game between the Canucks and the Wild tonight. I still can't decide who I am rooting for. I love both teams... I am just happy that one of them is definitely moving on. Heh... Anyway, what a comeback. I feel bad for the Wild. If they didn't have that stupid collision/giveaway that led to Näslund's goal I think they would have held on to win. Also, they were slightly hosed on that final regulation goal - between Klatt bumping Fernandez and Jovo dragging Park down.
This is the most entertaining postseason in a long long long time. I suppose that's what happens when the Avs, Wings, and Leafs lose. ;)
The silver ones with the old (never officially used) logo? I still have some of those stickers. :)Quote:
Originally posted by Andrew
I swear to god, if I need to put up my Bring Back the Senators sticker, I will. Well, since I never actually took it down, I deserve a pat on the back.
I wrote to the team when they were first founded and I asked for information about the team.... and they sent me a huge package with stickers, a team photo, a magazine, and many other neat things. :)
The Canucks, obviously.;)Quote:
Originally posted by sggg
Wow.. that was quite a thrilling game between the Canucks and the Wild tonight. I still can't decide who I am rooting for.
I mean, how could you not cheer for a team that ties the game up with 1.2 seconds remaining in the thrid?
I like the Senators a lot. Their logo is really really cool.
My sticker has Ottawa and the two tt's peak into the parliament clock tower. It also has a Coca Cola advertisement on it.
If some rich guy can pay for the rest of the Corel Centre, then the team will be in good shape. The bills are too expensive due to the construction debt, and the stadium sells out most of the time! They turn a profit, just not enough. So new stadiums (that word looks wrong, somehow) aren't always the answer.
Bring back the Senators!!!!!!! But I have a feeling that if they win the Cup, then they'll be staying in Ottawa no troubles. even if they make it to the finals.
I can't believe the Leafs, Avs and Wings are all out... I just want the Stars and NJ to be eliminated now, that way it's all unique.
Well, I think today was about as bad as the Devils can play, and Tampa still couldn't pull it out. If they don't want to get swept, they better hold the Devs to 2 goals or less.
Does anybody else find it weird that Anaheim has yet to be beaten in the playoffs? I'm getting worried...
Yes! WTF!?:mad: They make their opponents pay for each and every little mistake in a BIG way! The Stars can't stay focused enough for 3 periods, much less OT's. Yesterday's game, Dallas played as well as they could I thought. I'm afraid it's over for 'em. Go Wild!Quote:
Originally posted by Andrew
Does anybody else find it weird that Anaheim has yet to be beaten in the playoffs? I'm getting worried...
I'd be very happy, however, if Dallas comes out in the third game and dominates from end to end and has a decisive victory in regulation. If they didn't have those 3 overlapping minors, putting them on their heels for five straight minutes, this series would be tied 2-2. They were making no mental errors up to that point, then decided to make stupid decisions giving Anaheim 1 and 2 man advantages. Ug. Giguere needs to get the flu.
--Scourge .
i only hope the ducks beat dallas so nobody can say them beating the wings was a fluke. after this round i could care less since the wings and avs are both out.....thus making it a much more interesting playoffs all around for once.
This has been the weirdest playoffs, in a good way.
Well the Ducks have now lost a game, and the Wild have tied up the series.
Wild play at home tonight, I really think we will be victorious in this series. Our speed out does their strength.
If we do win the series and so do the Ducks we get Home Ice! Which would be great, but it would also be great (all though a much greater challange) if Dallas wins because it would be a fantastic match up of Old vs. New (better).
As for the east, Go SENS!
TAKE THAT WILD! TAKE THAT FLYERS! BOOM!
It was a good night for Canada. :)
Wade Redden rules! :):)
Marion Hossa is good also.
I like saying Havlats name. But say it like Aflack, and you will ne'er stop blurbing this name.
The award finalists were announced today. If there is any justice in this world, Marty will be taking home the Vezina.
Brodeur, not Turco. ;)Quote:
Originally posted by Yoshi
The award finalists were announced today. If there is any justice in this world, Marty will be taking home the Vezina.
He also deserves the Hart.. no question about it. But the NHL Awards and "justice" are all too often strangers. The fact that he's never won the Vézina before is all the proof you need for that!
Anyway, I believe he'll finally win the Vézina.... but I have a feeling he'll miss our on Hart. Näslund and Foppa are great candidates too so it's not that bad.
Yeah, yeah, whatevah! (hehe)
Looks lik New Jersey is a strong candidate for the cup. I hope Anaheim makes it to the finals above all else. Ottawa vs. Vancouver would be a win-win situation for Canadian hockey, though. :)
You will die, and soon.Quote:
Originally posted by Brisco Bold
TAKE THAT WILD!
BLASPHEMY!Quote:
Originally posted by Clash_Master
You will die, and soon.
After the Ducks won the game last night.... I had an interesting thought.
Since 1994 the Western Conference has been represented in the SC Finals every single year by the Boring Triumverate of Detroit, Colorado, or Dallas. The last time a team not possessing copious amounts of the Power Boring won the West was when the Canucks did it in 94!
95: Detroit (muhahaha)
96: Colorado
97: Detroit
98: Detroit
99: Dallas
00: Dallas (muhahaha)
01: Colorado
02: Detroit
Dallas is on the ropes now.. if Anaheim can finish the deed we'll be seeing the Ducks, Wild, or the Canucks! :)
i dont know why, but im sort of excited about Anaheim wipping the floor with Dallas. i really hope they make it to the Cup Finals.
As a Devils fan, I am rooting for Vancouver. I think they have been the biggest joke in the Western Conference since Edmonton was eliminated. They have no depth, don't play defense, and have the worst goalie in the playoffs. To me the scariest team in the West is Minnesota.Quote:
Originally posted by Rhydant
i dont know why, but im sort of excited about Anaheim wipping the floor with Dallas. i really hope they make it to the Cup Finals.
The Canucks? Don't you mean the Canadiens, sggg?
So how come they keep winning.Quote:
As a Devils fan, I am rooting for Vancouver. I think they have been the biggest joke in the Western Conference since Edmonton was eliminated. They have no depth, don't play defense, and have the worst goalie in the playoffs.
http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com...ing_era113.jpg
Bye bye Tampa... bye bye!! :)
The MONTRÉAL Canadiens play in the Eastern Conference. :pQuote:
Originally posted by Andrew
The Canucks? Don't you mean the Canadiens, sggg?
The Canucks won the West in 94 and lost to the *gag* Rangers. :(:(:(
Vancouver has plenty of depth, look at the game tonight (game 4).. a guy like Sopel steps up. They were one of the best teams in the West all season. They're deeper than Minny or Anaheim. They are a formidable team. The Canucks main problem is that Cloutier is so prone to meltdowns.... but so far he's gotten the job done.Quote:
Originally posted by Yoshi
As a Devils fan, I am rooting for Vancouver. I think they have been the biggest joke in the Western Conference since Edmonton was eliminated. They have no depth, don't play defense, and have the worst goalie in the playoffs. To me the scariest team in the West is Minnesota.
As a Devils fan I don't have much preference about the Western teams, they all have their weaknesses. The main team I fear is the Senators - who always play the Devils really really tough. I still hope they beat the Flyers though - because I like the Sens and hate the Flyers... and I'd rather lose to them.
If the Devils can't win it all, a Sens-Nux Finals would be a nice consolation prize. :)
Because they hurt MacInnis, Osgood is terrible, and the Wild keep blowing late leads.Quote:
Originally posted by Rising
So how come they keep winning.
If depth means having another (former Devil) wing to play with Naslund and Bertuzi, you are correct. I don't think I have to tell you how little the regular season relates to the playoffs. However, even during the regular season, the Canucks couldn't take the heat. That was one of the most grandiose late season chokes I have ever seen.Quote:
Originally posted by sggg
Vancouver has plenty of depth, look at the game tonight (game 4).. a guy like Sopel steps up. They were one of the best teams in the West all season. They're deeper than Minny or Anaheim. They are a formidable team. The Canucks main problem is that Cloutier is so prone to meltdowns.... but so far he's gotten the job done.
Ahh, okay so I just didn't read that right.
I thought you meant finals for some reason. Well, sorry about that.
They didn't choke late in the season, they decided to rest a lot of their players because they didn't have a preference for who they played against in the first round. Regular season honours are not as important as post-season success - just ask the Avs how they feel about their division title now. The Canucks believed that the main reason they didn't finish off the Wings last year was because they were fatigued from fighting so hard just to make the playoffs (they were the 8th seed)... so this year they didn't want to risk that. The Blues series went seven games and as the series went on, the Canucks played better and better and dominated. To a man they credited Marc Crawford's decision to not go all out to win a meaningless division title as the reason why they won that series.Quote:
Originally posted by Yoshi
If depth means having another (former Devil) wing to play with Naslund and Bertuzi, you are correct. I don't think I have to tell you how little the regular season relates to the playoffs. However, even during the regular season, the Canucks couldn't take the heat. That was one of the most grandiose late season chokes I have ever seen.
Also, Morrison plays centre - not wing and the Canucks have a lot of depth. Players line Linden, Cooke, and the Sedins. They have underrated defenceman like Öhlund and Salo. They are a very good team. Their main weak link is that the goalie can be super dodgy when he's not on his game... but if he can manage to not fall apart, they can make it. Underestimate them at your peril.
TAKE THAT WILD (again)!
No hockey today?! QEF! Boring.... :(
Oh well, at least there is the World Championships and F1...
There's always baseball...
bwahaha, that's a good one Brisco ;)
Hey, Hey Hey!Quote:
Originally posted by Andrew
bwahaha, that's a good one Brisco ;)
The Jay's won today, so back off!:)
I'm doing a little paper on the NHL and I'm looking for some opinions on the subject. This looks like where all the hockey fans are so it looks like the best place to ask this.
The NHL (hockey in general really) seems to be on the lowest rung of sports in the US. Why do you think the NHL gets pushed to the side while the NBA, NFL and MLB get all of the coverage and respect? What do you think could be done to change this?
I'm looking for your opinion, so let 'em fly. Also, doesn't the NHL have the longest season (and playoffs)?
Not that many people play the sport in the US. There are only a few regions where the game is popular at all levels - mainly Minnesota, Michigan, and New England. Most of the NHL teams in the US have not played in their regions for long. People may become fans because it is a trendy thing or because they enjoy it, but they do not have the passion for the sport that people in Canada have. They have not grown up with the sport or supporting a certain team.Quote:
Originally posted by Rumpy
The NHL (hockey in general really) seems to be on the lowest rung of sports in the US. Why do you think the NHL gets pushed to the side while the NBA, NFL and MLB get all of the coverage and respect?
Also, the national television and media coverage by ESPN/ABC in the US is a pathetic sad joke. It is insulting to most of the real fans because it panders to the casual fan. The problem is, the casual fan simply does not care much about hockey. So you end up with pathetically low ratings. The national television coverage in the US is so bad that many people simply won't bother watching unless they are watching their team and have no choice (believe me, I know plenty of Devils fans who are bemoaning the fact that the rest of the games this season will be ESPN/ABC only for them).
Finally, another reason for the low attendance and poor ratings is that the league has been run into the ground by Gary Bettman and his regime of short sighted greed. Simply put, the NHL has the most expenive tickets of any pro sports league in NA and the avererage middle class fans cannot afford to attend many games. The reason for this is that the television revenue is much lower than other leagues bring in. The quest for big TV ratings is also the reason for the preposteroud franchise relocations and expansion that took place during the 90s, which moved teams from markets with strong fan support, to areas where the league needed teams to fill in the "US television map". The result of this short sighted greed is that that most franchises have trouble competing financially, fan support in non-traditional markets is terrible, the buildings are half empty, and the league is headed for armegeddon in 2004 when the CBA is up. Bleh.
Nope, that would be MLB. They play a 162 game season. The NHL plays an 82 game season.Quote:
I'm looking for your opinion, so let 'em fly. Also, doesn't the NHL have the longest season (and playoffs)?
Edit: I forgot to answer this:I don't think it can be easily or quickly changed - or that they should try to change it. There is no way they will ever replace baseball or gridiron with most Americans, so why try? Why not try to make your league and your niche as strong as it can be instead? Foolishly trying to change the league/sport to make to make it more popular with non-fans has done nothing but hurt it. They have moved teams from areas where people love the sport to areas where most people simply don't care. There is no simple way of making people fans of a sport the perceive as foreign and strange.Quote:
What do you think could be done to change this?
It would be nice if they made the sport more attractive by getting their finances and stability in order. Instead of making money grabs, they should ensure the long term health of the league and it's member franchises.
The main thing you can do is promote the sport on the youth level. If more people grow up playing the sport, the more people will care about it. Many NHL teams have done this, by supporting local youth hockey organisations and whatnot. A great example of this is actually New Jersey. It's taken 20 years for the effect of getting the Devils to have an impact, as the people in their mid-20s now are the first generation that grew up with the team. There are many more players now than ever before (even if it still can't compare to something like baseball!). It just goes to show you that takes time to build support.
Another (very controversial) way to increase hockey's popularity would be to eliminate fighting from the game. Yes, this would turn off a lot of the knuckle-draggers and Don-Cherryites, but chances are those people are not attending the games for the sport of hockey anyway, and are just one step away from becoming a fan of "professional" wrestling. Many "normal people" are turned off from hockey because of the perceived violence. Many people will not take their children to an NHL game because of the rather barbaric fighting. If you got rid of that I believe that it will help developing more fans of the game and will result in the sport being taken more seriously. If it works in international hockey, it could easily work in the NHL.
Groovy. Thanks sggg. Anyone feel the same/different?
Oh,and what is the CBA?
No problem. I just edited it because I forgot to answer one question. ;)Quote:
Originally posted by Rumpy
Groovy. Thanks sggg. Anyone feel the same/different?
The collective bargaining agreement. That's the contract between the league and the players union which pretty much dictate how the league runs in regards to salaries and contracts and those types of things.Quote:
Oh,and what is the CBA?
The NHL's CBA is up in 2004 and many are predicting a long lock-out/strike because the league wants to implement a salary cap or some kind of wage controls.
Ooops. I'm sorry Philly - Did that hurt?
hockey isnt popular because its not a free sport in high school and college like all the other sports. thus not as many play it, therefore it doesnt get the limelight. also its not particularily easy and is usually (like i made mention to earlier) not easy to pick up and play (both skill and equiptment wise). as it stands i SHOULD have went to college and played (goalie) but since i didnt play on a credible team during my high school years it wasnt possible.
also the lack of scoring (not my opinion) and hard to see puck (again not my opinion) make it "boring" to the lemmings. i mean even if you cant see the puck is it that hard to read body language and see where the players are moving towards?
lol. Revenge for us in T.O.! (although Toronto deserved it)
Gary Bettman would piss himself if Ottawa and Vancouver were the finalists. No American dollars coming in for the broadcast, although Canada would be going cup crazy.
I think the salary cap for players is a definite must for the league to survive, but try telling that to the players. In order for teams to survive in a smaller market, they're going to have to give something up and they don't want to do that.
Marchant of the Oilers said himself that a salary cap is silly, because a doctor or lawyer doesn't have them. But a doctor or lawyer have options to other practices in the country. There is only one dominant hockey club and that's the NHL.
Another issue, like sggg mentioned, is the fact that marketting and interest is not peaking in areas. Detroit and Toronto are huge money makers. It's hard to find ticket to an ACC game close to gametime, and Detroit is much the same. New York is another bull market for the NHL and it's simply because the city is humungous.
2004 will be a harsh time for hockey... a very harsh time.
Dyne makes a good point, especially in regards to the COST of playing (equipment, ice time, etc) as well as the lack of options and rinks in most parts of the US.
...
In other news, holy crap... what's happening to Vancouver tonight? The Cloutier meltdown is on? Eep.
*turns back to game again*Quote:
Originally posted by sggg
In other news, holy crap... what's happening to Vancouver tonight? The Cloutier meltdown is on? Eep.
:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
*turns off t.v.*
You can always switch to TSN and watch the Ducks-Stars, eh? ;)Quote:
Originally posted by Brisco Bold
*turns back to game again*
:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
*turns off t.v.*
That's what I did. It's a close game. I am hoping the Ducks can knock off the Stars.
I did. I am.
I hope you just saw that goal by the Ducks then! :)
The nice thing is that Vancouver is still trying.
Yeppers.Quote:
Originally posted by sggg
I hope you just saw that goal by the Ducks then! :)
*quack quack quack*
Ducks win!!!!
Wow, along with the Flyers loss tonight this has just about guaranteed this is the best playoff year in.. well... a long long long time. All the crappy boring teams are gone gone gone...
I wonder of Petr Sýkora shook Derien Hatcher's hand after the game? Either way.... he certain got the last laugh on that A-hole tonight (for 2000, for those who don't know what I am getting at)! Muhaha... :)
*cough*Go to Hell Ducks.*cough* :(Quote:
Originally posted by sggg
*quack quack quack*
Ducks win!!!!
Wow, along with the Flyers loss tonight this has just about guaranteed this is the best playoff year in.. well... a long long long time. All the crappy boring teams are gone gone gone...
I wonder of Petr Sýkora shook Derien Hatcher's hand after the game? Either way.... he certain got the last laugh on that A-hole tonight (for 2000, for those who don't know what I am getting at)! Muhaha... :)
It was an interesting series and I have a new team on my hate list.
I just don't know who to cheer for now. All the teams I really hate are gone except the Ducks. But at least they beat the Wings. I guess they're not all bad...
Go Stars. :( And good luck Su--Ducks. Hell. I'll give 'em the rest of the season as a no hate grace period. If they're good enough to beat us and the Wings then they're good enough for Lord Stanley's Cup.
#6
*Ahem* isn't there a certain drywall-dull team from New jersey still around? ;)Quote:
Originally posted by sggg
Wow, along with the Flyers loss tonight this has just about guaranteed this is the best playoff year in.. well... a long long long time. All the crappy boring teams are gone gone gone...
Anyway, didn't see the Wild game tonight, but I did see the score. Heh.
In other news, I can't believe it, but I'm gonna have to pull for the Devils. The Sens can't make the cup. They just can't. It's one of the signs of the apocalypse, and I really don't need that right now, what with the warm weather finally here and all.
It's usually a popular misnomer that the Devils play a boring style. They led the league in scoring two years ago for example. But I'll conceed that under Pat Burns they can be pretty damn boring. That treble OT game the other night was the most boring multiple OT game I have ever seen. :pQuote:
Originally posted by StriderKyo
*Ahem* isn't there a certain drywall-dull team from New jersey still around? ;)
I didn't mean boring in style though. I meant boring as in the same old big money good ole boys network crap.... the same old teams that the NHL and the networks force down our throats every year.. the Colorado/Detroit/Philadelphia/Dallas/Toronto contingent. I am just super happy that all of the teams left in the playoffs are interesting. Last year I didn't even bother watching the last two rounds of the playoffs.
The Devils may be boring at times, but they are not a part of that big money boring establishment. :)
Welcome aboard! ;)Quote:
In other news, I can't believe it, but I'm gonna have to pull for the Devils.
Never!! After the embarrasment a few years back by some punk kids in hockey uniforms and an overly medicated net minder I can *not* cheer for that team.Quote:
Originally posted by sggg
Welcome aboard [cheering for the NJ Devils]! ;)
Go Ducks.
*ouch that hurts* :(
#6
Of course, I wanted the Stars to win the Stanley Cup, so that means Anaheim will win the whole thing. This always happens to me. Anyways, I'm going to root for either the Wild or the Senators. Isn't Ottawa on the verge of bankruptcy? It would be really awesome if they won.
SC
Haha, whatever man how many years have the Devils been in at least the second round - like, 8 in a row? If anyone's a "same old team" it's them. It's not the networks' fault nobody but you cheers for them ;)Quote:
Originally posted by sggg
the same old teams that the NHL and the networks force down our throats every year.. the Colorado/Detroit/Philadelphia/Dallas/Toronto contingent.
:: sniffs :: Hmmm I smell something, smells like a Canuck roasting over an open fire! Smells good, give me Bertuzzies head roasted on a stick please!
7 to 2! Wild take it to game Six! And don't be too suprised if it goes to game 7, after all the Wild are 4-0 in games where they face elimination. If the Wild can win this series it will be the first time in NHL history that a team comes back from being down 3-1 in a series twice. Amazing stuff.
Oh and I can't be happier for the Ducks, nothing is better than seeing the Stars get knocked out of the running! Another great thing is if the Wild do win their series against the Canucks we get Home ICE! And I think we fare better against the Ducks rather than the Stars, even though the Ducks have been playing crazy hockey.
Wendsday night, Game SIX! Hold on to your butts!
Sorta... the team was bankrupt earlier this year, mainly because of the old owner. He's been forced to give up the team though. The Sens are going to be sold to a billioinaire Canadian businessman very soon though. :)Quote:
Originally posted by spacecowboy
Isn't Ottawa on the verge of bankruptcy? It would be really awesome if they won.
There is a rite of passage in the NHL. A team almost always has to go deep into the playoffs and lose before finally getting over that final hump (if they ever do). It's time for Ottawa to learn what it really takes to be a champion, and beating the lowly Isles and a beat up Flyer team, with a drunk on rollerskates in net, is not it.
You take a win how you can get it. But you're right, lets see how well they fair against a solid team with no shortcomings this season.Quote:
Originally posted by Yoshi
There is a rite of passage in the NHL. A team almost always has to go deep into the playoffs and lose before finally getting over that final hump (if they ever do). It's time for Ottawa to learn what it really takes to be a champion, and beating the lowly Isles and a beat up Flyer team, with a drunk on rollerskates in net, is not it.
Damn, I miss one game and this happens. It's nice to know that the Wild aren't just lying down and waiting for the end.Quote:
Originally posted by Clash_Master
7 to 2! Wild take it to game Six!
Game six at the Excel Center should be exciting.
I'll tell you about it when I get home from it. :DQuote:
Originally posted by Superstition
Damn, I miss one game and this happens. It's nice to know that the Wild aren't just lying down and waiting for the end.
Game six at the Excel Center should be exciting.
For once I agree with everything you said.:DQuote:
Originally posted by spacecowboy
Of course, I wanted the Stars to win the Stanley Cup, so that means Anaheim will win the whole thing. This always happens to me. Anyways, I'm going to root for either the Wild or the Senators. Isn't Ottawa on the verge of bankruptcy? It would be really awesome if they won.
SC
F'ing Stars.<kicks the dirt>:( Go Wild!:mega:
--Scourge .
:( [jealous]You lucky bum.[/jealous]Quote:
Originally posted by basemies
I'll tell you about it when I get home from it. :D
Oh well, I'll be there in spirit.