I wouldn't lie under oath, especially if it means perjury over something that's 'no big deal' to the public eye.
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I wouldn't lie under oath, especially if it means perjury over something that's 'no big deal' to the public eye.
StriderKyo:
Nobody's saying that George W. is the perfect ideal (which is where your sarcasm falls short), but his position does deserve a certain amount of support and respect from the American people.
And I challenge you to name all of the presidents who were "...obviously the smartest, most dynamic politician in America [of their time], and...deserve[d] to be president because [they] got there on merit alone."
He didn't lie to you?Quote:
Originally posted by burgundy
He didn't lie to me about it, because I wasn't asking. Last I checked, I didn't ask the Office of the Independent Prosecutor - that now-forgotten fourth branch of government - to pore through Clinton's love life.
"...but I want to say one thing to the American people. I want you to listen to me. I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Miss Lewinsky. I never told anyone to lie, not a single time, never. These allegations are false and I need to go back to work for the American people. Thank you."
Are you an American citizen, because if you are then he was indeed addressing you. Whether you feel that his "love life" was his own business is beside the point.
Don't make claims that you can't prove.Quote:
Originally posted by burgundy
I guarantee I can outscore him on any standardized intelligence test.
Bullshit. I suffer from an inability to effectively express my ideas, especially verbally (almost embarassingly-so at times). I also tend to mangle sentences, stutter occasionally, and there are many times where I'll have to pause, mid-sentence, to gather my thoughts and think of what I'm trying to say. Sometimes I even have to give up on what I'm trying to say altogether, because I'm at a loss as to how to express it.Quote:
Originally posted by Nash
i was once told that if you can't get across an idea well, the idea was never that good in the first place.
Now I ask you; do you think, because of these problems I have, that I'm a bumbling idiot whose ideas are all worthless? Granted, you don't know me, but that's pretty fucking bold of you if you do.
Actually, I'm curious to know if Clinton's administration was actually responsible for our economy being as prosperous as it was.Quote:
Originally posted by Nash
as for clinton, sure he's not the poster boy for moral education, but he did a lot for the country (like being responsible for a prosperous economy). bush hasn't done anything, except try to start a war for greed and revenge, all the while justifying it as a moral crusade.
An example for Stone's argument.Quote:
Originally posted by MrKasualUltra2000
Huh??? We are discussing Bush's intelligence, correct?
the man is not intelligent by a long shot, simple and plain.
Btw, did you receive my PM?
Sadly, you're one of the many. I wish I had the power to stop people like you from voting.Quote:
Originally posted by Rick
I'm one of the few that really didn't give a damn that he lied. I'll lie to you about something that's none of your business, too.
Gon
Yeah, and I wish I had the power to have made all that bullshit about the President's BJ dissapear so I wouldn't have to deal with the same lame jokes on Saturday Night Live that were only on when the news shut up about the incident for one small hour and I didn't have to hear guys like you preach this crap to me day in and day out for months at a time. Welcome to America.Quote:
I wish I had the power to stop people like you from voting.
That's not cool, Gondolin. Respecting every American citzen's right to a vote is, to me, far more important than respecting the President (although that is, of course, important). The idea of wanting to take away a person's vote is really negative on a number of levels - you have to try to change the climate, by doing things like discussing the value of the office in threads like this. I'm really happy with this thread, anyways, the discussion in it.Quote:
Originally posted by Gondolin
I wish I had the power to stop people like you from voting.
Gon
Just, simply, respect the President a little bit, at least, simply because you respect the office. Respect other voters simply because they have the right to vote, so on. This sort of stuff is lost when you simplify Clinton to the point where you call him an unprincipled pervert, or consider Bush a stupid warmonger, or Republicans as evil poor-hating money-lovers, or whatever.
That's my boss! :)
I agree, Clinton was an effective and intelligent politician, that has nothing to do with his ability or worth as a leader though. And of course your opinion of Bush is just that, your opinion, based on nothing more than assumptions that you want to be true instead of factual evidence.Quote:
Originally posted by burgundy
I think Clinton was an effective, intelligent politician, and I still think that W is an idiot.
You really missed the boat on that whole scandal, didn't you?
He didn't lie to me about it, because I wasn't asking. Last I checked, I didn't ask the Office of the Independent Prosecutor - that now-forgotten fourth branch of government - to pore through Clinton's love life.
Actually I didn't miss the scandal, I merely asked Stone how he thought the Republicans were complicit, him being the person specifically being responded to.
Fourth branch of the government? More rhetoric of course, you seem to have forgotten to mention that it was created in 1978 and used up until 1999, this was hardly created as just a "republican trick" to get clinton. Clinton "willfully made perjurious, false and misleading sworn statements", "obstructed, and he "prevented, obstructed, and impeded the administration of justice, and has to that end engaged personally, and through his subordinates and agents, in a course of conduct or scheme designed to delay, impede, cover up, and conceal the existence of evidence and testimony" and he suborned perjury. Maybe you should read up on the scandal, try starting with the Four Impeachment Articles or "Sellout" by David P. Schippers who was the Chief Investigative Counsel for the House Judiciary Committee and also just happened to be a loyal Democrat. He commited crimes that if made by any other person they would recieve hard time for them, he in no way respected the office or should have remained in it. Again, the fault lies with republican politicians who failed to do their honorable duty to impeach clinton and instead capitulated to the democrats and the media pressure.
Please list exactly what policies Clinton created and supported that were good for our country. And please explain how he was directly responsible for a properous economy. Of course I expect no factual reply to both of these statements seeing as how it can't be done. Clinton wasn't responsible for our economy or for programs and actions that were good for our country, almost all of the legislation was created by a republican leadership, and as for the economy Clinton created or supported NO legislation that had anything to do with our economy prospering and in fact the current downturn in our economy started during his adminstration.Quote:
Originally posted by Nash
as for clinton, sure he's not the poster boy for moral education, but he did a lot for the country (like being responsible for a prosperous economy). bush hasn't done anything, except try to start a war for greed and revenge, all the while justifying it as a moral crusade.
......
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/r...20020808.shtml
Bush hasn't done anything? Can you even list what he has done? Try doing that and then list what clinton did and compare them and their effects side by side...
Research eh? I would really like to see some of your unbiased source material for your statements about his so called "oil racketeering posse". Because your statement contained absolutely no facts or factual statements, only rhetoric and propaganda.Quote:
Originally posted by MrKasualUltra2000
Gimme a break. Do some research and come back to the table. Basically Bush Sr's oil racketeering posse was brought back into office by powers beyond Dubya's control. And yes, Aschcroft and Kenneth Lay...i mean....Cheney are indeed intelligent but they are also selfish crooks who I wouldnt leave my children with.
It's funny that so many people think Bush is borderline retarded, you can't be an idiot and become the president of the United States. He's not the best orator in the world, who gives a fuck he's a good President and he has the balls to stand up to the rest of the world and all the stupid liberals that think killing Saddam Hussein is in some way a bad thing. Insane dictator developing biological/nuclear weapons that passes out "America is evil" fliers when he's not killing his own people for fun. Oh yeah and he's also a huge threat to one of our biggest allies. But suddenly we should turn into france because someone found a stupid pic of the president that might or might not be legit? Or because Will Ferrell was funny pretending the president was a retard? What the fuck, wake up
Way to turn a funny picture into a shitty cock measuring contest.
Good job guys.
I dunno, I had better than a C average in school. And even I could have made a winner out of the Rangers with a payroll and batting order like that.Quote:
Originally posted by Clash_Master
The funny thing is that most of us here are more then likely not nearly as smart as Dubya.
I dunno, he's the guy they make stand up in front of the media to deliver all their heavy-handed, civil rights eroding policies. I think he's still doing his time in the trenches.Quote:
Originally posted by burgundy
Add in Ashcroft and I agree with you.
100% true. In fact, most of the behind-the-scenes stuff I've read about the US political process has flat-out said that quality advisors don't want to work with a candidate who does too much thinking for themselves. Makes things awkward, diminishes the amount of power they themselves wield, and makes staying in line with party policy tough. I have no problem with Bush's advisors - aka dad (who at least knows the score) and Colin Powell, who's probably the best politician the US has. Besides, the Secretary of State has actually weilded the most power, if not power of executive decision, since James Baker.Quote:
Originally posted by Master
I really hate to get into this, but whether the president is an idiot (which they are hardly ever) is fairly immaterial. What is important is the quality of the people around them. Bush is smart enough to request a cabinet of very smart individuals. His advisors know what is going on. Some of our smartest presidents ever have made huge mistakes because they believed they were the smartest and didn't need assistance so they surrounded themselves with people less smart then they.
But it was no big deal. What on Earth did getting a blow job have to do with running the government, in any way, shape, or form? Politicians lie to you all the time. And W lies to you about things that actually matter, like saying "the Kyoto accord is bad for America" or "I was unaware of any wrongdoing at Enron".Quote:
Originally posted by Hero
I wouldn't lie under oath, especially if it means perjury over something that's 'no big deal' to the public eye.
That would require WAY too much research on my part, but a couple of highlights have been: Thomas Jefferson, Martin Van Buren, James Polk, Abraham Lincoln, William McKinley, Theodore Roosevelt, Franklin Roosevelt, Harry Truman, and John Kennedy.Quote:
Originally posted by Gondolin
And I challenge you to name all of the presidents who were "...obviously the smartest, most dynamic politician in America [of their time], and...deserve[d] to be president because [they] got there on merit alone."
Really? You think the US coming in and taking out two middle eastern countries in the space of a year has NO chance of sparking off World War 3? And if you think W wanting to take out Hussein has anything to do with Hussein being "evil" and "killing his own people", why isn't he going after China, Congo, Rwanda, Myanmar, or any one of the dozens of mass-murdering governmnets around the globe who either have no oil, or too big an army for it to be politically convenient?Quote:
Originally posted by SpoDaddy
It's funny that so many people think Bush is borderline retarded, you can't be an idiot and become the president of the United States. He's not the best orator in the world, who gives a fuck he's a good President and he has the balls to stand up to the rest of the world and all the stupid liberals that think killing Saddam Hussein is in some way a bad thing.
Saddam's a jerk, and yes the world would be better off without him. But be careful how much propaganda you absorb.
I'll give you that, as long as I can keep you from breeding.Quote:
Originally posted by Gondolin
StriderKyo:
Sadly, you're one of the many. I wish I had the power to stop people like you from voting.
Gon