5.1 Digital Gaming Questions

For those of you with your systems hooked up with digital sound I have some questions for you.

1) I know that XBOX uses 5.1 throughout it games but are there games that don't use 5.1 digital sound or do they all use it?

2) For games that don't use 5.1 digital sound on XBOX (if there are any) and for games on PS2 and GameCube have to be hooked up with L/R audio cables as well as the optical or can the optical use analog through it as well as digital?

3) I never played any game in 5.1 so I don't know what to expect, how much better is it then a nice surround setup?

Thanks in advance :)

5.1 is amazing. MS really did the right thing by including DD support in the Xbox. AFAIK, all audio is passed through the optical cable on both the Xbox and PS2, so that's all you need to hook up - even for non DD games. For the GameCube the L/R RCA cables is all you have, since it only supports Pro Logic 2 which is an analog 5.1 format.

I have yet to run into an Xbox game that doesn't support 5.1, but there could be some.

-Kevin

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Originally posted by Werewolf
1) I know that XBOX uses 5.1 throughout it games but are there games that don't use 5.1 digital sound or do they all use it?

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I'm not sure if they all do, but the 4 games I have all use it.

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2) For games that don't use 5.1 digital sound on XBOX (if there are any) and for games on PS2 and GameCube have to be hooked up with L/R audio cables as well as the optical or can the optical use analog through it as well as digital?

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PS2 - Most games aren't 5.1, but you can still use something like Pro Logic 2 on your reciever which will sound good.

Even games that aren't 5.1 will still output through the optical cable with the exception of:

Parrapa the Rapper 2
Gradius 3/4
(could be more, these are the only two I've personally found)

These won't output any optical signal, so you'll have to hook up your old L/R cables to get analog sound.

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3) I never played any game in 5.1 so I don't know what to expect, how much better is it then a nice surround setup?

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It really depends on the game, and if they went the extra mile to optimize the sound for 5.1 and didn't use it as an after thought.

Perfect examples of 5.1 which will really blow your socks off:

JSRF
Halo

On the other hand, some games which aren't 5.1 will still sound great on a nice surround sound setup.

Final Fantasy X sounds really, really good in simulated PL2 which I was impressed with.

Thanks guys for the help :)

I should have my digital reciever this weekend if all goes well, anyone know a good place to buy optical cables? I'm looking for ones around 3 or 4 feet in length.

BestBuy is the key.

I personally wouldn't recommend Monster Cables.

Go with something like this:

http://www.bestbuy.com/detail.asp?e=...t=783&scat=807

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Originally posted by Kidnemo
BestBuy is the key.

I personally wouldn't recommend Monster Cables.

Go with something like this:

http://www.bestbuy.com/detail.asp?e=...t=783&scat=807

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That is what I need, Acoustic Research makes some nice stuff too.

Thanks again Kidnemo, your a nice floating pink octi :)

I would second the Acoustic Research recommendation. Monster carries far too much name-hype.

-Kevin

I have yet to experience the XBOX with 5.1, although I have used some NGC and other consoles in PLII (Pro Logic II).

Some games sound excellent, such as games that are encoded in it--many first party titles (NGC), SOCOM, as well as some that aren't in PLII. A few games, though, sound terrible in Pro Logic II. The first game that comes to mind is Animal Crossing. There is way too much emphasis on the center channel. Some games are still better off in stereo.

Whenever I get an XBOX, hopefully soon, I will finally be able to experience it in 5.1. Something I'm looking forward to.

AR's products are just as good as Monster's, except Monster's are more expensive. It's all about marketing.

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Originally posted by Tones
...A few games, though, sound terrible in Pro Logic II. The first game that comes to mind is Animal Crossing. There is way too much emphasis on the center channel. Some games are still better off in stereo.

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Just as a little counter-point:

I play Animal Crossing in PII and it sounds great.

If your going to buy optical cables, get them off ebay...othwise your going to be paying outrages prices for them. 20$ for a 3 foot cable?:confused:

That is a great price...should have seen what those things where going for a few years ago....

Is that Interact 5.1 gaming sound system that EB and Gamestop sells worthwhile?

I know that 90% of Interact's stuff is horrible, I was just wondering if any of you have heard it.

20$ for a 3' optical cable is good...until you look on ebay and see a 9' for 10$:D

Personally, I'll would buy the Xbox version of a game just for awesome surround sound. Indeed, Halo IS godly in 5.1, I was impressed since none of the PC FPS's that I've played have had surround sound anywhere near that good, even with the same system hooked up to it.

Now if only I can find some way of wirelessly hooking up my rear speakers so that they can actually be behind me instead of to the side, I'd be all set.

Question: I've got a 4.1 system, would the hookup be the same for that and how major would the change be (since there would be no center speaker). Or is there a way to make my TVs speakers stand in for the center speaker?

Anyone who pays for surround sound equpment and buys Acoustic Research crap cables for it is an idiot.

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Originally posted by Masters
Anyone who pays for surround sound equpment and buys Acoustic Research crap cables for it is an idiot.

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Explain yourself, Acoustic Research seems to be a very good quality cable... what would you recommend then...

Uh, its light. if it gets to the other end, its fine.

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Originally posted by Masters
Anyone who pays for surround sound equpment and buys Acoustic Research crap cables for it is an idiot.

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Yes.

I'd be curious for a FACTUAL explanation.

None of this "my friend said this.." or "I used AR cables, but when I switched to cable "X" blah blah blah...".

Facts, plus links would be very nice.

I love this kind of discussion. First things first, the need for a slightly more expensive cable for your setup is going to depend on you using equipment (ie AMP and speakers) that is going to produce an audible differance in the first place. All surround sound recievers are not created equal- there is a huge differance in what a Denon and your average Sony are going to have under the hood and how the two are going to perform side by side. The same goes for cables (many other factors can affect sound quality as well, such as carpeting, location of equipment, acoustics of the room etc.) some use more shielding to prevent interferance, have a heavy jacket to promote longer life and use ends made of glass as opposed to plastic for cleaner signal transfer. The most important thing is weather or not you happen to have a discriminating ear for any of that to even matter. My recommendation is that once you get your equipment and have everything laid out the way you like it, try picking up a nicer cable from a place that won’t hassle you about taking a return if necessary. If you think it sounds better then you can decide if it’s worth the cost. I happen to use a lot of AR HT series stuff myself and have no complaints with them whatsoever. I’ve used generic stuff that I liked quite a bit less and I got the ARs for pennies on the dollar, so for me it was worth it to get the warmer, truer sound that I noticed from cables that I’ve used longer and have yet to fail on me.

Here are a couple places to check out for reviews and general discussion on audio equipment (even cables specifically)

http://www.audioreview.com/
(go to the cable section and be sure to sort by product- AR stuff will then be at the top)


http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htforum/index.php


http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/


And if you're ready to take the plunge, this place has decent prices-

http://accessories4less.com/aless4/C...WARE-6OSURN829

Hope this helps...

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Originally posted by 88mph
Is that Interact 5.1 gaming sound system that EB and Gamestop sells worthwhile?

I know that 90% of Interact's stuff is horrible, I was just wondering if any of you have heard it.

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http://www.ebgames.com/ebx/categorie...p?pf_id=211472
If it is that one I linked to, then it looks horrible. A 15 watt subwoofer and 5 watt satellites? Haha what a joke.

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Originally posted by GameCynic
If your going to buy optical cables, get them off ebay...othwise your going to be paying outrages prices for them. 20$ for a 3 foot cable?:confused:

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Really? I recently paid $20 for a 6' Acoustic Research optical cable for my Xbox. I've never used any of their products before, but the quality seems good.

Halo and Splinter Cell in 5.1 surround = amazing

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Originally posted by GohanX Now if only I can find some way of wirelessly hooking up my rear speakers so that they can actually be behind me instead of to the side, I'd be all set.

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Buy longer speaker wire?

5.1 Audio (as well as HDD saves) is the main reason I go with XB versions of games. Especially since so few developers seem to be making use of the hardware on multi-platform ports. There are definately some games that don't use 5.1 proper. I think Robotech was one of them. There are some others, but I can't think of them off hand.

I have my XB and PS2 running through optical cable, but in retrospect, I don't know why I bothered going optical with the PS2, it was just a waste of money.

That having been said, the audio experience on some XB games is simply ungodly. Max Payne, Halo, Steel Battalion all come instantly to mind. The first time I emptied a machine gun clip in Max Payne and heard the empty casings falling all around the couch, I was beside myself.

It really makes a big difference, and it's sometimes disappointing to go from an experience like that back to playing a more flat-sounding PS2 or Dreamcast game.

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Originally posted by DacaZ
I have my XB and PS2 running through optical cable, but in retrospect, I don't know why I bothered going optical with the PS2, it was just a waste of money.

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Yeah, PS2 only supports Dolby Digital for FMV's, as it lacks the hardware to decode the stuff while rendering its 70 million untextured polygons.

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Originally posted by Werewolf
Explain yourself, Acoustic Research seems to be a very good quality cable... what would you recommend then...

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If you're only talking optical, you're probably ok with AR, I'm talking more along the lines of video cables, speaker cable, etc.

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Originally posted by Kidnemo
Yes.

I'd be curious for a FACTUAL explanation.

None of this "my friend said this.." or "I used AR cables, but when I switched to cable "X" blah blah blah...".

Facts, plus links would be very nice.

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Well, my friend told me "Hey Masters, you sell this shit for a living, so you damn well better know what the best cables are."

Thicker cable + better insulation = better cable

It's really not a difficult concept. I use AR in my system, but only for shit like my DC and SNES that I really don't desire the best quality out of, but everything else is Monster. I've seen and heard AR and Monster side by side to have seen the difference, and unless you can see through my eyes, that's all the proof I'm going to bother to offer.

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Originally posted by Masters
If you're only talking optical, you're probably ok with AR, I'm talking more along the lines of video cables, speaker cable, etc.



Well, my friend told me "Hey Masters, you sell this shit for a living, so you damn well better know what the best cables are."

Thicker cable + better insulation = better cable

It's really not a difficult concept. I use AR in my system, but only for shit like my DC and SNES that I really don't desire the best quality out of, but everything else is Monster. I've seen and heard AR and Monster side by side to have seen the difference, and unless you can see through my eyes, that's all the proof I'm going to bother to offer.

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Sorry, that hardly qualifies as proof.

I've been "into" home audio and video for around 10 years.

I used to exclusively use monster cable until I picked up some of the "Master Grade" (I believe it was that, or the "Pro" series. I'm not sure off the top of my head) AR stuff.

Want warranted me giving the AR stuff a try was all info I read over at http://www.hometheaterforum.com

You can go over there and find tons, and tons , and tons of people having the exact same disscusion that we are, but none of them will have any proof either way that "Monster cables are the best".

Thats great that you've "seen the difference" but that hardly quantifies you coming in here and saying:

"Anyone who pays for surround sound equpment and buys Acoustic Research crap cables for it is an idiot."

I probably have around $500 worth of Monster cable laying around or hooked up in my house, which I've switched in and out with all my components, hell I've taken the cable over to other home theatre enthuisasts homes to compare and I haven't seen any noticeable difference with the Monster.

So just like you, I don't have any facts that Monster is any better or worse than AR, just what I've personally experienced.

But you also don't see my spouting off that "Anyone that buys Monster Cables is an idioit" either.

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Originally posted by Rooster
I love this kind of discussion. First things first, the need for a slightly more expensive cable for your setup is going to depend on you using equipment (ie AMP and speakers) that is going to produce an audible differance in the first place. All surround sound recievers are not created equal- there is a huge differance in what a Denon and your average Sony are going to have under the hood and how the two are going to perform side by side. The same goes for cables (many other factors can affect sound quality as well, such as carpeting, location of equipment, acoustics of the room etc.) some use more shielding to prevent interferance, have a heavy jacket to promote longer life and use ends made of glass as opposed to plastic for cleaner signal transfer. The most important thing is weather or not you happen to have a discriminating ear for any of that to even matter. My recommendation is that once you get your equipment and have everything laid out the way you like it, try picking up a nicer cable from a place that won’t hassle you about taking a return if necessary. If you think it sounds better then you can decide if it’s worth the cost. I happen to use a lot of AR HT series stuff myself and have no complaints with them whatsoever. I’ve used generic stuff that I liked quite a bit less and I got the ARs for pennies on the dollar, so for me it was worth it to get the warmer, truer sound that I noticed from cables that I’ve used longer and have yet to fail on me.

Here are a couple places to check out for reviews and general discussion on audio equipment (even cables specifically)

http://www.audioreview.com/
(go to the cable section and be sure to sort by product- AR stuff will then be at the top)


http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htforum/index.php


http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/


And if you're ready to take the plunge, this place has decent prices-

http://accessories4less.com/aless4/C...WARE-6OSURN829

Hope this helps...

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Great post Rooster.

The best thing anybody can do when buying stuff is to spend as much time reading on those forums as possible.

Much better than listening to myself and Master bitch about cables. :lol:

Monster Cable is GREAT for CAR AUDIO

because you have all kinds of interference in a car and the thicker cables and more shielding prevent that interference from screweing up your signal

when it comes to HOME audio and video they dont do that

compared to inside a car you have virtually no interference in most homes (maybe in apartment complex's but not some ones house)

why you wont see a difference when using monster cables in the home

besides has anyone ever taken monster cable stuff apart
i can tell you monster cables Componet wires for the Xbox are EXACTLY the same as Microsofts componet wires for the Xbox ive taken both apart and the wires inside both are the exact same size and thickness and are put together exactly the same way

except one will cost you 60 bucks and the other will cost you 20

for home audio and video monster cables are a rip off

and even when it comes to car audio you can get cables just as good from companies like Rockfard Phosgate (spelling) for much less than monster cables will run you, but the basic idea behind monster cables, the thicker cables and wires, more insulation, is at its best and works its best in car audio and does virtually nothing in home set ups

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Originally posted by Kidnemo
So just like you, I don't have any facts that Monster is any better or worse than AR, just what I've personally experienced.

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You pretty much solved that whole problem in one sentence, and yet you had to add so much before and after that.

Now Recon (something like that...) and Radio Shack cable are shit, I have a AR pro series A/V cable and to be honest I think it is better then my set of Monster Cables A/V cable at least construction wise, I can't tell any difference picture wise but both are nice quality :)

I just won 2 6ft AR optical cables for $17.00 off eBay, not to bad :)

For you guys who can't shut up about interference with interconnects:

Make your own. They're real cheap, and I've heard that they are twenty times better than anything in their price range.

For those who are close minded enough to not try anything other than Monster, try some of these internet-only dealers:

http://www.bettercables.com/

http://www.vampirewire.com/

Digital coaxial cables are the cheapest of the digital cables. I've been happy with mine, and since it's being transferred through a wire and not light, seems more durable.

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Originally posted by Tones
Digital coaxial cables are the cheapest of the digital cables. I've been happy with mine, and since it's being transferred through a wire and not light, seems more durable.

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Good point, and I'd say most would have a tough time honestly saying one is better than the other. Digital coax is good to use for your DVD player not only because of the price, but also because it'll free up an optical input on your reciever (most only have 1-3 of these, and so far consoles only use optical).

Also, of the 20 or so Xbox games I've owned, I can tell you for sure that DOA3 and Robotech DON'T support 5.1 (can't see why you'd need it in a fighting game and Robo sounds decent in Prologic).

It seems hard to distinguish a winner between optical and digital coaxial because they are all one's and zero's, and as long as they arrive intact, they will still be one's and zero's.

...Oh, and movies sound good in 5.1 (even 6.1 now), too. ;)

Werewolf...if you need some cables, let me know before monday. We have both AR and Monster stuff.

oh, and it's good to see that your getting excited about this...trust me, you should be :)

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Originally posted by Shin Johnpv
Rockfard Phosgate (spelling)

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You just made my night. :)

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Originally posted by Masters
You pretty much solved that whole problem in one sentence, and yet you had to add so much before and after that.

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Sorry.

But when you come in here spouting your mouth off like it's fact, I felt that it was my duty to show everyone that you were incorrect.

Get your Xbox in 5.1 pronto! I can't offer info on cables or anything (I think I'm using the cheaest stuff out there) but I can tell you that the difference is amazing. Even Obi-Wan was worth playing thanks to the awesome 5.1 soundtrack, and that's saying A LOT. :p

Penny Arcade has thrown its hat into the ring about this topic:

http://www.penny-arcade.com/view.php3?date=2002-11-25

Penny Arcade is great :D

:lol: That was a good one :lol:

I finally set up my new receiver and speakers set. And it sounds very nice :p

Need to move the furniture a bit though, so I will get the best position for speakers.

Despair, what speakers/reciever did you purchase?

I got Pioneer 6.1-Channel Dolby Digital-EX/DTS-ES A/V Receiver with Dolby Pro Logic II Model: VSX-D811S :) Got it on Ebay, new for $280.

http://www.bestbuy.com/detail.asp?e=...1&cat=3&scat=4


Speakers:

http://www.bestbuy.com/Detail.asp?m=...=23&e=11101870

Got them for $300. So far I like them :p

Despair: I have that same reciever, although I paid full price. :P

However, I do have a nice (in specs, crappy looking) subwoofer that I finally have in working order:

http://www.gamepage.homestead.com/fi...29_02_back.jpg
Here's the amp and its 250 watts.

http://www.gamepage.homestead.com/fi..._front_NGC.jpg
Here's a front picture showing the driver. I thought it would be fun to place an NGC on top for size comparison... and I did.

After a little trial and error, I finally got it working, and it works beautifully! I love the THX logo and the DTS logo in Metropolis... turned up to about -20 or so.

A nice thing about finally adding a subwoofer is taking a lot of strain off of the main speakers. I can definitely hear a difference in them when they're in the higher volumes.

I need a subwoofer but everywhere I go they only sell them as part of a full home theater set. Sears is the only place that has them seperate and they want $349 for the subwoofer alone.

That's about what mine ended up costing, but believe me, that one-tenth of the audio spectrum is a huge gap to be missing out of.

Nice pics of the sub, tones, got any more pics of your setup? Do you have a graph of the spectrum for that thing? Kinda curious. :D

I've multiple times sat at the checkout with one of the SVS in my cart, but I chicken out everytime. Right now I live in an apartment where I can play everything at the full reference level (105dB)...don't ask me how. I'm worried, though, that my next apartment won't be sound proofed so well.

I need to pick up a subwoofer one of these days ;)

I'll probably want a Kef Q subwoofer to match my speakers though :)

Schlep: Man, if you can afford to go SVS--go for it! I've heard nothing but good things about them, and they're supposedly almost on level with DIY systems regarding performance versus price.

I unfortunately don't have any pictures of my setup. It is practically impossible taking pictures of it, because I have a black TV, black entertainment center, black VCR, and a black reciever; all light is eaten up. I'll try to take some pictures of it later, although I bet I'll have to bring in some extra lighting.

Look for a graph soon!

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Originally posted by Mr.Sparkle
Penny Arcade has thrown its hat into the ring about this topic:

http://www.penny-arcade.com/view.php3?date=2002-11-25

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i don't find that funny
(i also own a $300 surge protector :sweat: )

It's fairly well known within the audio community that Monster cable is a farce, it's better than included wires, but it's not audiophile cable by any means. If you're going to lay out the cash for better cables, avoid Monster (and AR too, although they are more reasonably priced). Also, i haven't done much research in this area, but i generally consider digital coax to be the better choice than optical unless you are running extremely long distances. Think about it, optical cable has to undergo two extra signal conversions, one on each end of the wire, from voltage to light and back again.

My system:
http://www.nd.edu/~mwallhau/105-0590_IMG.JPG http://www.nd.edu/~mwallhau/105-0591_IMG.JPG

i love my speakers, and yes, they far outclass the rest of the system. It's also set up all wonky because i'm at school and can't worry about proper speaker placement due to space constraints. This annoys me to no end.

quick snapshot of my living room:

http://www.moreevolved.com/misc/teevee%20etc.gif

Kidnemo, those are the JBL NSPI's right? Looks nice!

Stormy, what power conditioner do you own? As far as I know, the Monster surge protectors are actually worth their money, and they come with a real promising warranty. Those look like Klipsh speakers... am I correct?

I have a Panamax 1000+, actually got it new off ebay so i payed $140, but msrp is $300. It's got a $5 million dollar guarenty on components. Panamax doesn't make it anymore, but you can check it out here.

The speakers are B&W 603 S2s, they've been replaced by a newer model as well, but i still love them. Audio review.com writeups here.

B&W's? Heh, they seem out of place in a game stereo. ;)

Here's my setup :)

Front Speakers

Center Speaker

Rear Surround Speakers

This is the receiver I just got thanks to amerlop :D

Receiver

The only thing I need to do now is get a subwoofer... when I have some extra cash that is :sweat:

Before today, I've never heard of Kef (or is it KEF?). They look nice, though.

I don't really have any room for a full surround sound setup, so I was thinking about getting a pair of Dolby Headphones, which is supposed to simulate surround sound in a set of headphones.

Been thinking about these headphones because of the features involved (and the nifty Xbox logo on the side is not bad either :P) but they're going for a nice $430.

I've been debating between buying these or just waiting and getting a set of Logitech Z680 when I have more room (my gaming setup is in my bedroom), which would run me about $100 less... Ah decisions, decisions :sweat:

i always get tired of headphones after 10 min of wearing them, go with the logitech speakers, those are supposed to rock

I've never liked Logitec speakers, but I can steer you in the direction of some good headphones. I'd probably prefer some decent stereo phones instead of those Dolby types, and pair them with a decent headphone amp.

headroom.com is known for their great selection of headphones and in-house headphone amplifiers. They supposedly reduce the possibility of headaches due to headphone output. Something that annoys me is when something pans from the left to the right, but you hear each signal discreetly in each ear. This is different from normal speakers because even if a signal is coming from only the left or right speaker, you will still hear it, albeit at a lower volume, out of the opposite ear. Their amps correct this.

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Originally posted by Tones
Before today, I've never heard of Kef (or is it KEF?). They look nice, though.

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Thier a smaller British company but they make some nice speakers, only a few audio stores carry them around where I am and they run from mid-high to high end so they are usually only at speciality audio places, Tweeter carries them near where I live.

They are very good quality speakers though, I like mine a lot :)

British? The only British speakers I can recall (outside of kef, now) is Monitor.

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Originally posted by Tones
British? The only British speakers I can recall (outside of kef, now) is Monitor.

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KEF actually had a speaker called "K1 Monitor", I don't know if they are related though.

Thwy have a nice little history of the company and speakers on thier website though, interesting stuff :)

http://www.kef.com/history.html

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Originally posted by Tones
I've never liked Logitec speakers, but I can steer you in the direction of some good headphones. I'd probably prefer some decent stereo phones instead of those Dolby types, and pair them with a decent headphone amp.

headroom.com is known for their great selection of headphones and in-house headphone amplifiers. They supposedly reduce the possibility of headaches due to headphone output. Something that annoys me is when something pans from the left to the right, but you hear each signal discreetly in each ear. This is different from normal speakers because even if a signal is coming from only the left or right speaker, you will still hear it, albeit at a lower volume, out of the opposite ear. Their amps correct this.

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Hot damn! I had no idea that headphone amplifiers even existed. How does the sound with the headphone amplifier compare with a normal receiver or portable player? I already have a set of Sennheisers, the HD570... I was debating getting this amplifier to start out with and go from there (and also see if I can get one of those portible amps for my portable CD player as well) I would still be interested in getting the Dolby Headphone setup, but something tells me I'd be better off waiting for a receiver that has the capability for it down the road so that I can utilize whatever headphones I wanted... Decisions, decisions!

Whoops! Sent out the wrong address. It should be http://headroom.headphone.com/layout.php.

The best thing to do with the headphone amp is connect it directly to the analog outs of your source, such as a CD player. If you connected it to the analog outs (such as your tape out) of a reciever, it would have already gone through so many conversions that the difference would be minute. It would go from digital to analog in the CD player, back to digital in the reciever (all solid-state pre-amplifiers operate in the digital domain), finally back to analog with the analog outs. However, it would only go from digital to analog with a CD player.

The headphone amp you are looking at is supposedly quite good, as expressed in this topic] at another forum that I visit. If you decide to buy one, definitely respond in this thread or another to share your impressions.

Got a nice set of speaker stands at BB yesterday. Only $50 and match the color of my speakers and tv :p.

Look nice too. Now my system is finally set up.

Post a picture of it. I love seeing setup pics.

I wish I had a camera :(

Maybe in few months guys.

I just got my optical cables in the mail so when I go home I can finally test out the Digital sound, I can't wait :)

Boo hiss.

Buy a disposable camera, get it devoloped and have the pictures put on a CD.

Quite easy...

I will do that, but I need to paint the side wall first, and move my entertainment center on the other side of the room, so it will be better placed. Shit, I wonder how will I move my 32" Wega. Its friggin heavy :)

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Originally posted by Despair
I will do that, but I need to paint the side wall first, and move my entertainment center on the other side of the room, so it will be better placed. Shit, I wonder how will I move my 32" Wega. Its friggin heavy :)

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Atleast it's not a 40incher like my beast. I hated moving that thing so bad...

I'm selling that biatch with the house, and when I get a new place I'm buying a new teevee....and having it delivered!

Quote:

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Originally posted by Despair
I will do that, but I need to paint the side wall first, and move my entertainment center on the other side of the room, so it will be better placed. Shit, I wonder how will I move my 32" Wega. Its friggin heavy :)

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I had to move a 48" TV.

I am not sympathetic at all... :)

I know ;)

I'm hiring movers next time I move as well. No way, I'm carrying all my shit this time. Plus I got much more stuff since last move :p

True that.

The more room you have, the more crap you need to fill it.

Actually, the 32" tube TV is probably heavier than the 48" projection. Tube TV's are very heavy for their sizes, expecially flatscreens.

Despair, something that I have read at various forums regarding speaker stands may help you. I read that you can noticably improve bass response of speakers simply by filling the stands full of lead shot or play sand. When they are filled, less of the sound is absorbed by the stand. Try it, even if it doesn't work for you, it would only be a $5 or so investment.

Cool tip Tones :) I shall try it later :p

We were lucky with our TV, since when we got it to the house, we had 2 bigger guys there and they pretty much put it on the stand where its been for the last 1.5 years.

Now, we will have to do it by ourselves, and since it will be too heavy for my wife to handle, and I cant do it alone, I will need to gather my friends for the task :p

start feeding DJ those steroids now :)

I picked up a 12' 120 watt powered subwoofer at Radio Shack today for $150.I've configured it so that I get some great bass sound. Prime sounds great with the deep bass booming when Samus fires her gun.

I'm going to try that speaker stand suggestion Tones made.

I'm having trouble getting it to detect Dolby Digital on my PS2, is there something other then switching the optical out on in the settings menu? I get sound but it doesn't get digital and I tried it with a DVD and still nothing.

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Originally posted by Tones
The best thing to do with the headphone amp is connect it directly to the analog outs of your source, such as a CD player. If you connected it to the analog outs (such as your tape out) of a reciever, it would have already gone through so many conversions that the difference would be minute. It would go from digital to analog in the CD player, back to digital in the reciever (all solid-state pre-amplifiers operate in the digital domain), finally back to analog with the analog outs. However, it would only go from digital to analog with a CD player.

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Actually I was looking at this being an option for my gaming specifically... Do you think I would lose signal quality if I had a couple of switch boxes daisy chained (meaning having all my systems hooked into my S-Video Switchbox and then have the audio cables go to another switchbox where I would select between the headphone amplifier and the TV?) It wouldn't take that much effort to just unplug the cables from the switchbox every time I want to give it a go on headphones, but I'm a lazzzy bastard :)

I don't think that it would hurt it much, since it is merely passing on a signal, and not doing any converting.

Werewolf: Unfortunately, most PS2 games are not in Dolby Digital. At the moment, they are only available in cutscenes, but who knows; there may be realtime DD someday for the PS2. They already managed progressive scanning (Burnout 2 comes to mind). If a game does include DD cutscenes, set your reciever to "auto" in the signal select so it detects a digital input, and "standard" so that it automatically does DD when it can. Well, I know this is how my reciever (Pioneer VSX-D811S) would handle it. The only console that offers full-time DD is the XBOX.

If your reciever has ProLogicII, it can work wonders with a simple stereo signal, especially with games encoded in it. I've played Burnout 2, which makes "so-so" use of it, and SOCOM, which sounds quite good, especially in the mission where you have to call a helicoptor in. The first game to incorporate this technology was Rogue Leader for the Gamecube.

I'm not sure if you've tried this yet with a DVD, but when you play a movie, always go to the audio controls within the DVD and make sure it is on Dolby Digital (or DTS). If this still doesn't work... I'll think of something. I had to fiddle about with my reciever for a while before I learned all of the little nuances of it.

Edit: Melf, congrats on the purchase. A sub can make a big improvement, eh? I'm starting to think that my sub is a little too powerful for my room, since when I equalized it with my Sound Level meter ($35 at RatShack), I had to set it to -8, and that was a notch above the actual level. I was playing around with it earlier with some sine waves, and it could easily reach 100 dB. I had my friend come over, and I couldn't understand what he was saying from a few feet away (it didn't muffle our voices, but it distorted them). After a few minutes, the air pressure had risen so much that I felt like I was 20 feet underwater... and yes I have been at that depth (as well a little deeper) for periods of time.

I am so wierd.

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Originally posted by Tones
I'm starting to think that my sub is a little too powerful for my room, since when I equalized it with my Sound Level meter ($35 at RatShack), I had to set it to -8, and that was a notch above the actual level. I was playing around with it earlier with some sine waves, and it could easily reach 100 dB. I had my friend come over, and I couldn't understand what he was saying from a few feet away (it didn't muffle our voices, but it distorted them). After a few minutes, the air pressure had risen so much that I felt like I was 20 feet underwater... and yes I have been at that depth (as well a little deeper) for periods of time.

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I've kept mine at -10 for a while now. While I know that -6 to -8 is the "correct" way to have it set, it just seems to overpower the sound when it's set that high. -10 seems just about right on most music/movie/game material to me. The explosions in Mech Assault are particularly nice. :D

When I first used it, I popped in Lord of the Rings. If you have ever seen the movie in DD, you know that this will really challenge your sub. I did not feel like equalizing it yet, so I just kept it at 0... A little overpowering it was! Even the bed was shaking, and I have no Aura Bass Shakers either!

I'm surprised (and thankful) that this thread has lasted so long; I hope to have it stay up.

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Originally posted by Tones
I'm not sure if you've tried this yet with a DVD, but when you play a movie, always go to the audio controls within the DVD and make sure it is on Dolby Digital (or DTS).

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Yep, did that... and still all I get when I play a DVD is stereo L & R when it auto detects :confused: So far the XBOX works great through digital, my PS2 isn't though :(

Well, I think I need to set up my Rear Speakers right, since I barely can hear them, even when in surround mode.

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Originally posted by Werewolf
Yep, did that... and still all I get when I play a DVD is stereo L & R when it auto detects :confused: So far the XBOX works great through digital, my PS2 isn't though :(

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Yes, I had the same problem...somewhere in the DVD setup menu (I forgot where) you have to enable something other than the optical output. I remember that it was in that little setup menu that you can bring up when you watch DVD's. It's there, I know it :)

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Originally posted by Despair
Well, I think I need to set up my Rear Speakers right, since I barely can hear them, even when in surround mode.

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I have that exact same problem. I have to walk up to them, and stick my ear right on them to check if they are working.

Problem is I have their volume at max.

I need a new reciever...

With many movies, surround speakers are hardly used at all. Oftentimes they are only noticable in action scenes or when the camera pans around. If you are watching a scene that's just conversation, most likely all speakers except the center will be silent.

Pro Logic, the first one, hardly uses the surround speakers at all. They are used primarily for ambience, so very little sound will come from them. Pro Logic II is quite similar, although it has a more complex decoding method than the first.

If you want to see if your surrounds are set up/working properly, get any THX certified DVD. Go to the menus, and there should be some test tones there. Play them, and compare the signals coming from each speaker to the others, since a signal of the same volume is given to each of them.

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Originally posted by amerlop
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Yes, I had the same problem...somewhere in the DVD setup menu (I forgot where) you have to enable something other than the optical output. I remember that it was in that little setup menu that you can bring up when you watch DVD's. It's there, I know it :)

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I think I know what your talking about now that I think of it, I will check it out later and hopefully find what I need there, thanks :)

I found the setup for it, under the DVD setup menu when you have a DVD playing... I forgot all about that screen. So my PS2 DVD's are now working in digital and it sounds really nice, thanks amerlop :)

Good to see that you got it working; sorry I wasn't much help. I don't have a PS2 of my own, so I don't know much about the hardware.

I'm trying to think of a way to contribute to this thread, but at the moment my mind is at a blank.

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Originally posted by Tones I'm trying to think of a way to contribute to this thread, but at the moment my mind is at a blank.

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How bout using standard phone cable (solid core) as speaker wire? I'm too lazy to try it myself, but I hear its kinda nice.

Standard phone cable would be horrid for speaker wire. Standard phone cables are 26 gauge copper (usually), while most copper in use in HT's is 12-16 gauge.

anoyone got a good suggestion for a nice reviever under 500. Actually it should probably be under 400 since I might get it for xmas. I checked out the new Sony 6.1 and it seemed very nice. 3 component inputs = component for all systems. Yay! Any suggestions for a nice reciver and even speaker suggestions would be great too.

I have my eye one the JBL SCS150SI home theater package. Any feedback on this also would be great.

In that price range, for a receiver, I'd go with a Denon AVR-1803 or 2802. I don't know that much about the AVR-1803, so you may want to check HTF to make sure there aren't any glitches, etc. Both the 1802 and 2802 are/were solid contenders. The 1803 can be had online for about $350 and the 2802 for about $450. I tend to stay away from Sony receivers because of past amp issues they've had (running too hot, powering off at sound peaks, etc).

As far as speakers go, those JBL's are a bit of a mismatch for the receiver you mentioned and the receivers that I suggested. Buying a $500 receiver just to buy $300 speakers is a bit backwards, imo. I'd personally save up enough so I could pick up a good set of Energy Take 5.2 (or newer now?) if I were wanting to go entry level. If I could eek out a bit more cash, I'd be looking at Definitive Technology ProCinema 80.6 system, PSB Image, or possibly some low end Klipsch (I personally think they're a bit bright, but you may like them).

The best combination, imo, would be the Denon 1803 with the Def Tech ProCinema 80.6 as Denon and Def Tech work very well together. That whole package would set you back about $1100 total. If that's too scary, the Energy Take 5.2 are a couple hundred dollars cheaper. Also, don't be afraid to buy 1 component at a time. Getting everything at once may seem great, but the itch eventually comes along for you to upgrade your equipment, especially if you bought something you didn't really want because it was all you could afford at the time.

Oh, and I almost forgot to mention...LISTEN BEFORE YOU BUY!!#$@. :lol: I love Definitive Technology speakers, but that doesn't mean you will. People I know online have heard similair speakers to mine (and the ones I'll be buying soon) calling them muddy and unresponsive while I think they're tight and crisp when setup correctly. Likewise, they'll go on and on about their Klipsch, but I feel like my ear is being raped when I listen to them. Most high end stores will let you do an in-home demo, and if they won't, they don't want your business. Know before you buy. :D

I love the reciever that I have, the Pioneer VSX D811S. Component switching, 7.1 inputs, 6.1 pre-outputs, 3 optical ins (on on the front), 2 digital coaxial ins, DD-EX, DPLII, and DTS-ES, etc.

It is a very versatile player, and I highly reccomend it. It can be found for as little as $300 or so online, but at most major national retailers, it is about $400. I bought mine at Best Buy, just so I would know it was in my hands, and I could easily return it.

I have same receiver as Tones does, and I was lucky to find it from reliable retailer on Ebay for $280 :) So far I'm very happy with it.

It also comes in two colors, regular black and silver, and I wish they had silvers where I got mine :)

I prefer black, as everything that I own is black... except my DVD player. I prefer the unobtrusive look. One thing I prefer about the previous series (VSX-D810S) is the amber LED. I had the VSX-D710S for a few weeks, and I really liked the warm amber glow.

Well, Black is fine by me too, since most of my equipment is also black. But my wife wanted it to match our Wega and speakers, which are silver/metallic :)

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Originally posted by Schlep

I tend to stay away from Sony receivers because of past amp issues they've had (running too hot, powering off at sound peaks, etc).

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Really? I've had my Sony STR-DE 485 for about 4 months now and I've used the hell out of it. It's never given me any problems.

My old receiver was Sony, and its been working great for the last 5 years. Even after being flooded with water :p

It might also depend on what level you listen to your material at, do you guys listen at 105dB when you're watching movies? I'm glad you haven't had any problems. :)