Why is the Saturn version superior to the PSX port? Is it just the voices? or is there more to it?
Just wondering
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Why is the Saturn version superior to the PSX port? Is it just the voices? or is there more to it?
Just wondering
Because any game is better in a language you can't understand.
Are you insulting Grandia? *Must control... fist of death*Quote:
Originally posted by burgundy
Because any game is better in a language you can't understand.
Edit: I'll try to answer Korians question in full when I get a chance... to make a long story short though the Saturn version is Graphically superior and it doesn't have the atrocious Sony Dub and Translation. I leave the details to Tsubaki who I'm sure will be here shortly though. :)
Nope. Just the undercurrent of preference for the Saturn import.
First of all, the game was in production for 4-5 years with the Saturn architecture in mind. It was stated on numerous occasions in interviews and such. You will see that it's reflected in the texture-work of the game. Yes it is pixelly, but it's also more detailed than the PSX-blurring.
The framerate is also surprisingly better on the Saturn than it was on the PSX. And the PSX one also more prone to crashing than the SS version.
GameArts did not even port the game to the PSX. They farmed it out to another party.
And language is not an issue between PSX version and the SS version, because duh... there exists a Japanese PSX version too. And burg... say what you will, but Jp Grandia had the best cast of any game IMO. Hidaka Noriko, Inoue Kikuko, Hisakawa Aya, Touma Yumi and Yamaguchi Kappei all in one game! It's a reunion of Ranma and Aa Megamisama/A!MG/OMG! casts right there.
Edit: LOL, bbobb was right... the post didn't appear until after I wrote my shpiel. ^_^ Oh well, Grandia is definitely worth being enthused about. No other RPG comes close.
In some aspects but not by much, most people wouldn't even notice them; The cutscenes are better in the PSX version though.Quote:
Originally posted by bbobb
the Saturn version is Graphically superior
I don't think the translation was bad in Grandia... and even a so-so translation is better then none at all when you can't read Japanese ;)
Coffee, the adult drink..
hehe :)Quote:
Originally posted by taloony
Coffee, the adult drink..
Isn't that a direct translation though... what did the Japanese one say? (In english ;))
Um... no... I thought everyone made fun of "coffee" because of the dumb translations?
The original I'm pretty sure says "sake". Not like it really mattered a whole lot, but just an example of how silly localizations can be.
Yeah, you shouldn't be in here kid... you're too young to be in a coffee bar. :pQuote:
Originally posted by taloony
Coffee, the adult drink..
I'd actually care if I knew what the hell they were saying. Its been said many times, but well-acted gibberish is still gibberish.Quote:
Originally posted by Tsubaki
And burg... say what you will, but Jp Grandia had the best cast of any game IMO. Hidaka Noriko, Inoue Kikuko, Hisakawa Aya, Touma Yumi and Yamaguchi Kappei all in one game!
The existence of a Japanese PSX port is totally irrelevant. There's still only one (legit) way to play it in English and that's on the PSX. All your other points may well be true, but the language barrier IMO trumps them all.Quote:
Originally posted by Tsubaki
First of all, the game was in production for 4-5 years with the Saturn architecture in mind. It was stated on numerous occasions in interviews and such. You will see that it's reflected in the texture-work of the game. Yes it is pixelly, but it's also more detailed than the PSX-blurring.
The framerate is also surprisingly better on the Saturn than it was on the PSX. And the PSX one also more prone to crashing than the SS version.
GameArts did not even port the game to the PSX. They farmed it out to another party.
And language is not an issue between PSX version and the SS version, because duh... there exists a Japanese PSX version too. And burg... say what you will, but Jp Grandia had the best cast of any game IMO. Hidaka Noriko, Inoue Kikuko, Hisakawa Aya, Touma Yumi and Yamaguchi Kappei all in one game! It's a reunion of Ranma and Aa Megamisama/A!MG/OMG! casts right there.
Edit: LOL, bbobb was right... the post didn't appear until after I wrote my shpiel. ^_^ Oh well, Grandia is definitely worth being enthused about. No other RPG comes close.
just look at the intros......
Hmm, thats pretty much the only thing I had to add.Quote:
Originally posted by burgundy
The existence of a Japanese PSX port is totally irrelevant. There's still only one (legit) way to play it in English and that's on the PSX. All your other points may well be true, but the language barrier IMO trumps them all.
*Shrug* I played the Saturn version before there was any planned US release and quite enjoyed it even with the Language barrier... it was still playable with the help of a FAQ. I then played the US version and still enjoyed it, but those damned US voices caused me pain. I wanted to strangle Justin.
So go learn Japanese?
Language is pretty darn irrelevant when you do so. *shrug*
I'm not saying that you're wrong. The Sony-localized Grandia is the only option for an English Grandia. But it doesn't matter to everyone that a game has to be in English.
Truth to be told, even if a game like Sakura Taisen were to be subtitled in English, keeping original Japanese voices, I wouldn't want it. But that's just me.
Edit: Oh, and more to the point. If you already played (and I assume, loved) Grandia in English, what's wrong with playing it again on a different system, in a different language? It's not like you'd be missing anything since you already know what happens. Then you can just enjoy the game for its beauty, its original format, its original cast.
I'm going to pick up the US Grandia one of these days for those reasons too. Just want to see how bad the localization really is ^_^
How about Sue? *shudder*
I played the Saturn version for a couple of hours and enjoyed it, but I tend to lose interest pretty swiftly when I can't understand what's going on, even with a translator right next to me.
I would love to learn Japanese but if only it where that easy, plus I hardly have any free time now as it is :sweat:
And "sake" wouldn't be a good choice anyway for the USA, at least most kids know what coffee is ;)
I have only played the PSX rev.... and I loved it, it's one of my favourite games ever. The thing is. I had wanted it for Saturn so badly for so long, so when I read the few complaints people had about the port I was a bit upset... but in all honestly the little things like the annoying voices and the "coffee drinking" didn't effect my enjoyment of the game very much. I was just happy to play in English...
Now that I know the story it might be cool to go back and play the Saturn version though. I have always wanted to. I am sure it is the better version, but sadly I'll always pick the English language option first if there is one. Well, until I learn Japanese anyway. ;)
Yeah but sake == alcohol for all intended purposes. It's just the Japanese's generic term for it because that's what they primarily drink. When we say "sake", we mean it to refer specifically to the rice-wine. So "sake" should just be translated as "alcohol".Quote:
Originally posted by Werewolf
I would love to learn Japanese but if only it where that easy, plus I hardly have any free time now as it is :sweat:
And "sake" wouldn't be a good choice anyway for the USA, at least most kids know what coffee is ;)
Anyway, my opinion on learning Japanese is simply this:
There will always be games that will not come to America. So why not learn the language and make the issue irrelevant? It's far more rewarding than the whining and petitioning that companies won't localize Game A or did a poor translation job on Game B. It's always better to have a choice.
What would you recommend for someone interested in learning Japanese that has a busy schedule, I would like to learn Japanese very much :)Quote:
Originally posted by Tsubaki
Anyway, my opinion on learning Japanese is simply this:
There will always be games that will not come to America. So why not learn the language and make the issue irrelevant? It's far more rewarding than the whining and petitioning that companies won't localize Game A or did a poor translation job on Game B. It's always better to have a choice.
Werewolf, the first thing you can do is buy some Japanese language instruction books. Some of them are pretty good. They won't get you fluent but it's a good start. This is especially true if you know more than one language, because each language you learn is easier than the last (because you'll know how to learn language better).
Obviously Japanese is quite difficult for an Indo-European language speaker but it's not impossible. I don't know much Japanese, just the basics and not enough to read... But I have experience learning French, Swedish, Norwegian, and German and I have read some language theory books.
If you know any Japanese friends, ask them to help you and practice with you. That's the best thing you can do.
You could also buy some audio tapes to listen to in the car, or better yet you could get an interactive CD-Rom. Those can be pretty good. One helped me with my Swedish immeasurably.
Good luck. ;)
Maybe it's becuase it'll take up 100's of hours of my life to learn the language...and that alot of the good stuff from Japan is coming to America. Are'nt Sakura Taisen,Growlanser ,SM3 , etc already announced. And dont forget about the whole romhacking scene....RPG's like Devil Summoners are being transalated also.Quote:
Originally posted by Tsubaki
There will always be games that will not come to America. So why not learn the language and make the issue irrelevant? It's far more rewarding than the whining and petitioning that companies won't localize Game A or did a poor translation job on Game B. It's always better to have a choice.
I did enjoy Grandia .......but do you think it would be worth learning a whole language(a particularly hard one that) just to understand some anime voice overs(which I normally hate) and to see some slightly better grpahics?I think not.
It's... hard to say... I'm not an expert in the language, nor how to learn the language.Quote:
Originally posted by Werewolf
What would you recommend for someone interested in learning Japanese that has a busy schedule, I would like to learn Japanese very much :)
A lot of it comes with exposure. I got into anime at around '96 and as any anime watcher can tell you, you can pick up phrases just by watching it subbed or even raw. But I also liked anime music, so when I bought CDs, I would "read along" with the lyrics booklet. That is how I learned to read hiragana, katakana, and some kanji. Grab a dictionary and then you'll know the meanings.
I definitely can say I self-taught myself the basics that way, but it's a long process and not for everyone. I did it that way because I love music and love to read and sing alone with music, so it worked.
But I also later took about 2 years of classes when I was in college because although you can learn to read the text somewhat, and to build a basic vocabulary, it's quite another to write and to know the grammar structure.
The guy who is in charge of the Sakura Taisen Translation Project , Kayama, was a high-schooler who had no formal Japanese training. He learned Japanese through a book he picked up, and through simply translating ST. His ST translation was kind of poor compared to his later ST3-4 stuff... which is why he's redoing ST translations. But it's all a learning process. He's also doing translation work for some fansubs so his listening skills are excellent too. If I can get a hold of him, I'll ask him more about how he learned, but I'm pretty sure it's all-exposure, and not much formal-learning.
But I do think the best and most efficient way is a class. Classes teach you the grammar structure, and how the language generally functions. It also forces you to write, which makes it infinitely easier to read. But you also should be exposed to the language (through anime, games, music, whatever) so that you're learning the vocabulary and real-life phrases.
As for self-teaching through textbooks, I don't really have any recommendations. My university used "Japanese For Everyone" and although I like it, the first chapter kind of assumes you can read hiragana/katakana already. Most people I talk to used "Youkoso" (Welcome) for their courses.
The most western-friendly dictionary, though, is the NTC's New Japanese-English Character Dictionary which is a nice $35 at Amazon. I paid the $50 full price. It has an easy to use SKIP method of looking up characters, which is great for the dictionary and even looking up in online dictionaries such as Jeffrey's . I'll be happy to help you out with any more resources, but I'm not an expert on the subject.
If a lot = about half nowadays, vs 30% before, then sure.Quote:
Originally posted by xS
Maybe it's becuase it'll take up 100's of hours of my life to learn the language...and that alot of the good stuff from Japan is coming to America.
ST is coming to america in some form. ST1-5 + all the bells and whistles is not.Quote:
Are'nt Sakura Taisen,Growlanser ,SM3 , etc already announced. And dont forget about the whole romhacking scene....RPG's like Devil Summoners are being transalated also.
Growlanser 2 + 3 are being localized. Growlanser 1 (which I'm told is the best... i dunno, don't own 2 + 3 myself) isn't.
(SM3?)
But you know... looking at my favorite games for every system, they're all import only. Where's Sin & Punishment for N64? Where's... well, darn near everything(Chaos Seed, Langrissers, Sakura Taisen, Grandia, Grandia: Digital Museum which is a complete game, Shining Force 3s) for the Saturn? Where's Growlanser, Tales of Phantasia, Black/Matrix for PSX? Where's Culdcept 2 Exp. for the PS2? etc etc etc.
Things are definitely better now than before. But the thing is... in America, they decide on whether or not to localize something based on whether they perceive it will sell or not. And in Japan, they simply just make the games and let the people decide.
While I love Grandia like a madman, I'm sure most people don't. But I wasn't really talking about 1 game... the 100+ hours invested in learning Japanese opens up a lot of possibilities for gaming. As I said, you would no longer have to worry about "Oh, will this company pick that game up? I hope so... it looks interesting." You don't need to rely on what companies decide. You can play games sometimes a year before a US company brings it out. And don't forget you can also read Japanese gamesites for the latest news. Screw gamespot, IGN and magicbox. Now you can read Gamespot Jp, Famitsu, Minaduki, etc yourself.Quote:
I did enjoy Grandia .......but do you think it would be worth learning a whole language(a particularly hard one that) just to understand some anime voice overs(which I normally hate) and to see some slightly better grpahics?I think not.
Possibilities are endless if you step outside the world of gaming too..
Learning a foreign language is a hell of an investment for gaming purposes only, especially when there are so many excellent titles that are released in English. I'll sooner not play a game or play it in a language I don't understand before I spend years trying to learn Japanese.Quote:
Originally posted by Tsubaki
Anyway, my opinion on learning Japanese is simply this:
There will always be games that will not come to America. So why not learn the language and make the issue irrelevant? It's far more rewarding than the whining and petitioning that companies won't localize Game A or did a poor translation job on Game B. It's always better to have a choice.
Obviously, there are more and better reasons to take up a foreign language, but a response of "Hmph. Just learn Japanese." is really useless.
---
Werewolf: It's my experience that a lot of text-heavy import titles are also kanji-heavy, which are a hell of a lot harder to learn than the Japanese alphabets (katakana and hirigana).
What in the blue fuck is wrong with you?Quote:
Originally posted by Tsubaki
Truth to be told, even if a game like Sakura Taisen were to be subtitled in English, keeping original Japanese voices, I wouldn't want it. But that's just me.
This is wild fantasy. In Japan, just like here, games are made to sell. Most Japanese gamers like to play crap - just a different kind of crap than most American gamers.Quote:
Originally posted by Tsubaki
But the thing is... in America, they decide on whether or not to localize something based on whether they perceive it will sell or not. And in Japan, they simply just make the games and let the people decide.
Most imports titles play fine without any or just a bare bones understanding of Japanese. And I don't see the advantage of being able to read Famitsu directly. It's not Shakespeare.Quote:
While I love Grandia like a madman, I'm sure most people don't. But I wasn't really talking about 1 game... the 100+ hours invested in learning Japanese opens up a lot of possibilities for gaming. As I said, you would no longer have to worry about "Oh, will this company pick that game up? I hope so... it looks interesting." You don't need to rely on what companies decide. You can play games sometimes a year before a US company brings it out. And don't forget you can also read Japanese gamesites for the latest news. Screw gamespot, IGN and magicbox. Now you can read Gamespot Jp, Famitsu, Minaduki, etc yourself.
Possibilities are endless if you step outside the world of gaming too..
That's not what I meant. What I meant is:Quote:
Originally posted by burgundy
This is wild fantasy. In Japan, just like here, games are made to sell. Most Japanese gamers like to play crap - just a different kind of crap than most American gamers.
Japan makes 1000 games.
America looks at those 1000 games, and thinks what may or may not sell. Then they localize 300 of them.
Some of the filtering process is good. They eliminate all the junk licensed crap as well as the many many lame games. But the other side of the filtering process is, even if a game is good (or as it may be, the best), if the US can't market it or think it will sell, it'll be left behind as well.
I'm saying that Japan makes a lot of stuff. And the difference is, if you were open to playing imports you have a choice. If you are Engish-only, that choice is stripped from you. The localization companies make it for you.
I agree with you in principle, but I think the cases of AAA titles being left in Japan are few and far between. The overwhelming majority of top games do make it over.
Most of those titles don't require an understanding of the Japanese language. Generally, I'll import almost anything aside from RPGs if I want it bad enough and there's no domestic release, yet I own maybe 10 import games.
And if you have import hardware only, you're missing out on the great Western titles that don't make it to Japan.
My point is that the net benefit of learning Japanese is rather small, at least in terms of the games I want to play. If you're an anime or RPG hound, you'll obviously feel differently.
I think this is a pretty silly debate. Anyone can see what the benefits or non-benefits of learning a language like Japanese would be and it's up to the individual to decide whether it's worth it to them. For some people, it definitely would be since they may be interested in Japanese books, website, films, games, and so on. For others, if it was just a few Japanese videogames it would not be worth it. The same goes for just about any language. So, I think it's a pretty pointless debate. It just depends.
As for various region games. I just think having various regions sucks so much. I mainly prefer Japanese developed games, it seems, but I like games from all regions so I think it's just a shame it's such a pain in the arse to play imports with most consoles. :(
It's very import friendly ....I have nothing against impports . I've imported for almost every other system I own. I mainly import action games and shooters though.Quote:
Originally posted by Tsubaki
But you know... looking at my favorite games for every system, they're all import only. Where's Sin & Punishment for N64?
I'm pretty sure Tales of Phantasia has been romhacked , Sakura Taisen 1-3 patches are being worked on as far as I know.now what Grandia digital mueseum is I'm not really interested.Quote:
Where's... well, darn near everything(Chaos Seed, Langrissers, Sakura Taisen, Grandia, Grandia: Digital Museum which is a complete game, Shining Force 3s) for the Saturn? Where's Growlanser, Tales of Phantasia, Black/Matrix for PSX? Where's Culdcept 2 Exp. for the PS2? etc etc etc.
Black Matrix is easily playable with an FAQ(at least the GBA is) .
Sure there are many japanese games that are'nt coming stateside , but the Its a good enough amount to keep me satisfied.
And even if there were millions of excellent Japanese games that never came out , western games are good enough to keep me happy.
[/quote]
The same go's for any other language. I can speak 3 , and hopefully I'll be able to go through french over the next few years.Quote:
possibilities are endless if you step outside the world of gaming too..
Which languages do you speak? :)Quote:
Originally posted by xS
The same go's for any other language. I can speak 3 , and hopefully I'll be able to go through french over the next few years.
urdu,hindi, english
thanx for the feedback
Grandia is not as good as Toilet Kids.
Tsubaki, you make me sick. "Why dont you just learn the language?" What the fuck is the matter with you? Thats such a blatantly arrogant statement its not even funny. Not everybody has the time or ability to do that. Let alone to play some crap RPG that's already available in English.
Im learning Japanese now, but I figure I might as well because Im in a top college and they have a great EALC department. However it's a hella long process, and learning to read Kanji is a huge time investment. I wanna do it because pretty much the last thing on my list is to be able to watch anime or play videogames (lots of other ones). Ill probably never import another game in my life. But its ridiculous to suggest putting in that time just to play Grandia or Super Happy Princess Creator VII.
Lets learn another language, probably the most complex written language in the world, to play garbage dating sims and games available in English! And then lets talk about these obscure pieces of crap on a message board where nobody cares about them! And then lets mention a bunch of assholes who voice-acted in a game I can't understand anyway!
And while we're at it, Grandia can go screw. I have it for PSX, in ENGLISH, and I think its okay but overrated. And the battle system's not that great.
I personally love Grandia. It is my favorite game of all time, and maybe. Just maybe I would learn a language just for it. But I wouldn't ask anyone else to.Quote:
Originally posted by diffusionx
Tsubaki, you make me sick. "Why dont you just learn the language?" What the fuck is the matter with you? Thats such a blatantly arrogant statement its not even funny. Not everybody has the time or ability to do that. Let alone to play some crap RPG that's already available in English.
But maybe... just maybe... you missed every post in this thread where I've written, because I've certainly never said to go learn Japanese for Grandia.
Well good for you. Of course it's a long process, as is learning anything. If you need any assistance, I'm sure many people here including me would be happy to assist you.Quote:
Im learning Japanese now, but I figure I might as well because Im in a top college and they have a great EALC department. However it's a hella long process, and learning to read Kanji is a huge time investment.
Then that's your own priorities. My library of games for the last two generations have been largely Japanese imports. If you say one game isn't worth learning Japanese for, then I have no arguments about that. But if a gamer has like 100+ games in Japanese, wouldn't knowing the language be helpful?Quote:
I wanna do it because pretty much the last thing on my list is to be able to watch anime or play videogames (lots of other ones). Ill probably never import another game in my life. But its ridiculous to suggest putting in that time just to play Grandia or Super Happy Princess Creator VII.
My point in this diverged-portion of the thread was that no matter what, English-only speakers are limited by what Western companies decide to localize and what not to localize. Assuming you knew both languages fluently, that issue would be irrelevant. So would poor translations, dubbing, or release dates. Assuming you knew both languages, you would always have a choice, and that is a good thing.
It's that ideal, that I'm striving for, and suggest to others.
As much as you'd like to think Japanese is impossible, try Chinese where there's like 10-20x as many "kanji". Written Japanese is quite easy in comparison, largely in part that it has an "alphabet" system.Quote:
Lets learn another language, probably the most complex written language in the world, to play garbage dating sims and games available in English!
And yeah.... you can keep deluding yourself that all you're missing is garbage dating sims. Don't forget that many shooters, 2d fighters, 2d anything, RPGs(mostly SRPGs) tend to be left in Japan.
Care to share what these obscure pieces of crap are? If this is targetting me directly, care to share how Sakura Taisen 4, Space Channel 5 Part 2, Lunar Legend, Grandia Xtreme, and Tales of the World Narikiri Dungeon 2 are "obscure"? Those are the games I've had extensive write-ups about and all of them are from pretty well known and established series.Quote:
And then lets talk about these obscure pieces of crap on a message board where nobody cares about them!
Just because YOU don't know who I'm talking about doesn't mean that no one else does. If you watch anime, you know the names I mention, or the works they've been a part of. They're darn famous.Quote:
And then lets mention a bunch of assholes who voice-acted in a game I can't understand anyway!
If you're going to make this post a personal attack against me, then please provide some backup for your statements. I never said go learn Japanese for Grandia. My argument is that if you can only speak English, then you're at a disadvantage because the English companies decide what and what you can not play. The only issue is whether those other games are worth playing, but if you don't import (you said yourself that you never will again) then how will you ever know what's out there? Sure you can claim they're all garbage dating games, and admittedly there's a lot of them. But that's utter crap if you believe that's all Japan has that doesn't come here.
<nonpersonal>Quote:
And while we're at it, Grandia can go screw. I have it for PSX, in ENGLISH, and I think its okay but overrated. And the battle system's not that great.
I feel the battle system is the best in any traditional console RPG. It combines a lot of ideas in one sweet package that is just executed perfectly. It has you consider the position of your party. Not only in absolute position, to where you want to keep your characters out of harm's way (area of effect attacks), but also relative positioning to enemy. If an enemy is too far away, you may not be able to attack them that turn and spend it just walking closer to it. If an enemy is right next to you, your attack will hit instantaneously which is important because... the system also allows you to consider timing.
Every attack you make will have some effect on the enemy, big or small. Normal attacks will pause them for that one .5 second where you hit them. A slower, weaker critical hit has the chance of delaying an enemy's attack or cancel them outright... it depends on the timing. But the enemy can do the same to you. All the while, your special attacks and spells all have their own individual levels of expertise. A cure spell, when you first acquire, may take 3 seconds to cast, leaving you open for getting your spell cancelled by an enemy hit. Upon using the cure spell more and more and more, eventually you'll master it and casting it will be almost instantaneous.
The entire battle system working together means, every thing you do has a huge effect on how battles occur. You have the strategy to coordinate all your attacks on all enemies, deciding to do more damage with minimal effects on the enemy's timing, or less damage but a chance of bumping the enemies back or cancelling their attack altogether. All the while, they're doing the same to you. So positioning and timing all have a role.
I have not found any other RPG battle system to be in its class, personally. Most RPGs do not have any factors to consider period (FF, DQ, WA, Suikoden for instance). I love the Panzer Dragoon Saga system, where that also takes into account positioning and timing in a different way. The Lunar system is a bit more basic with just positioning to worry about, but it's still a step up from most. Valkyrie Profile's system is interesting, however it is extremely limited in that once you find your combo, you don't do anything else until you get a new weapon/party member. So you end up doing repetitive button presses for 50+ battles in execution. The Tales series on manual is like a side-scrolling beat 'em up/hack 'n slash with lousy AI controlling your other chars. It's sorta fun in a mindless sort of way, but in the end is pretty repetitive too. On semi-auto, it's a lot more strategic.. but it's also frustrating because you have such limited control.
So if you have any suggestions on RPGs to try, I'm open. But at least in my experience, I haven't found another RPG I've liked nearly as much as Grandia.</non-personal>
Burg,Quote:
Originally posted by burgundy
Because any game is better in a language you can't understand.
I played the PS version but I also played the Saturn version 1st.
The translation was spot on for the PS but the game wasn't made or written to be run on the PlayStation. It was a sloppy piece of shit port.
Bad load, choppy 3D and overall just was like walking in mud. That game should have just stayed overseas if it never came out with an English release on the console it was meant to be programmed for.
I've seen shit ports of games from other consoel systems as well but Grandia on PS was one of the worst. Hell I'll even go a step further. The 'Official' U.S. Strat Guide for Grandia was a joke.
All it was littered with was small screen and words saying go here, do this, go there, get that.
They didn't even bother to tell you where the hidden stages of the game was in this "official' guide.
Grandia in the U.S. got shat on....hard...
Didn't Grandia 2 on the PS2 get shat on hard also? :p
Ow a Point is made indeed but then we could go into that line of how the game reached more of the solbbering masses to appease the tready thing it is to own RPGs now.Quote:
Originally posted by Freeter
Didn't Grandia 2 on the PS2 get shat on hard also? :p
Nevermind the fact Grandia II was so awesome on the PlayStation that they were offering it in a buy 2 get one free bargin awhile back. :p
I'm all for learning people learning Japanese, it's a beautiful language. But anyone who spends 7 years of their life in hardcore study just so they can get a better framerate in Grandia is an idiot. By the time you've finally learned the language, you'll discover that you have the ability to read things that aren't aimed at 9 year olds. (Sorry, had to get that off my chest).
I dont want help from you. If you feel the desire to learn a language to play games aimed at, yes, 9-year olds (StriderKyo is right), be my guest. You learned bits and pieces of the language and use that amazing power to post about shitty Japanese-only RPGs and tell people who like Final Fantasy that they have no opinion. Please. Why didnt you just learn French instead, and at least spare us your arrogance?Quote:
Originally posted by Tsubaki
Well good for you. Of course it's a long process, as is learning anything. If you need any assistance, I'm sure many people here including me would be happy to assist you.
And Im no linguistics expert, but considering that Japanese has multiple readings for each character (why did you put the word kanji in quotes? I realize its not called kanji in Chinese but nonetheless), and Chinese has only one, Japanese is generally regarded as more difficult *to write*. And yes, Im aware of Japanese's "alphabet" system, dont take me for a fool.
I would think that Chinese would be more difficult than Japanese, being a tone language and all. Japanese isn't a tone language, is it?
What does the difficulty of Chinese have to do with anything?
Oh and please tell us of these awful RPGs I speak about. I'm still waiting for some specific examples of well... anything you've said in this thread.Quote:
You learned bits and pieces of the language and use that amazing power to post about shitty Japanese-only RPGs and tell people who like Final Fantasy that they have no opinion. Please.
I'm arrogant because I provide backup for everything I say? Thanks.Quote:
Why didnt you just learn French instead, and at least spare us your arrogance?
All I see is you generally calling imports crappy, calling Grandia overrated and not that special, etc etc, yet you've not presented a basis for any of your statements.
Yes, I wrote kanji in quotes because in Chinese they're all those types of characters. You are correct in that there are multiple readings for characters in Japanese, but writing them is not the difficult part. What's difficult about Japanese is reading aloud, specifically the pronunciation of word combinations. Writing is not difficult because once you've learned a word, you've learned the word. There's only one way to write it. Reading for meaning is not difficult because of the same thing. And because Chinese characters/kanji have meaning in their strokes and radicals, you can decipher meaning without even knowing what the word means. On the other hand, what's extremely difficult about Japanese is the pronunciation of words and their combinations. It's why you can receive a business card of someone's name and have absolutely no clue how to say it.Quote:
And Im no linguistics expert, but considering that Japanese has multiple readings for each character (why did you put the word kanji in quotes? I realize its not called kanji in Chinese but nonetheless), and Chinese has only one, Japanese is generally regarded as more difficult *to write*.
But in the context of entertainment, reading words outloud is not something that matters much, if at all.
diff said that Japanese was perhaps the most difficult written language in the world, and Chinese is far more so.Quote:
Originally posted by burgundy
What does the difficulty of Chinese have to do with anything?
When I say "crappy" or "piece of shit", Im referring to RPGs in Japanese that you rave about that nobody else here plays because they dont pretend to be Japanese. Im not gonna play them because theyre in Japanese and I dont know Japanese all that well (and you probably dont know much more than me). Maybe in 2 years. This thread is ultimately as productive as your GC-GBA player one... it was hurt because you posted stupid shit and got called on it.
And what the fuck? I played Grandia. I own it. In fact, I played and own Grandia in a version with my native tongue. The graphics aren't great. The storyline isn't great. The characters are kinda annoying and generic (young hero, annoying little girl with crush on him, etc.). Its rather foolish to me in fact. The battle system to me is highly overrated and only marginally better than your run-of-the-mill RPG battle system. What more basis do you need other than the fact I fucking own the damn thing and played it?
Please.
Fact: You just stated that Japanese-only RPGs that you haven't played are automatically crappy. Wow... what a nice claim. It obviously can't be "no one else here plays" because Shou-sama has played and enjoyed Growlanser. Frogacuda has played and enjoyed Tales of Phantasia. PaCrappa has played and enjoyed Black/Matrix. etc etc.Quote:
Originally posted by diffusionx
When I say "crappy" or "piece of shit", Im referring to RPGs in Japanese that you rave about that nobody else here plays because they dont pretend to be Japanese. Im not gonna play them because theyre in Japanese and I dont know Japanese all that well (and you probably dont know much more than me). Maybe in 2 years.
Fact: You say I masquerade as Japanese. I never claimed to be Japanese. Nor do I really embrace their culture. I used to be an anime fan, but not anymore. I've enjoyed more Western games than Japanese games this year. So... what are you basing your statements on?
Fact: You say I probably don't know much more Japanese than you. To be honest, I have no idea how much Japanese you know. I only know how much Japanese I know. Since you don't know how much Japanese I know either, I'm not sure how you came to your conclusion.
Fact: I did no such thing. Read my reply to the thread. It was OMG! ON TOPIC! burgundy brought up the language issue. I was under the impression that the original poster wanted to know the difference between the PSX and SS Grandia games. Language has nothing to do with the question, and that's what I stated.Quote:
This thread is ultimately as productive as your GC-GBA player one... it was hurt because you posted stupid shit and got called on it.
Nothing, simply that explanation you just gave would have sufficed. But until now, you have not backed up any of your statements.Quote:
And what the fuck? I played Grandia. I own it.
<snip>
What more basis do you need other than the fact I fucking own the damn thing and played it?
I did bring up the language issue, but I fail to see how it's off topic, considering that language is quite a notable difference between the two versions.
This is a bit off-topic... but if anyone is curious Finnish and Hungarian (and other minor related languages) and the most difficult languages in the world to learn because they are so grammatically complex. Finnish alone has something like 14 cases which make it so that word order in sentences does not even matter.Quote:
Originally posted by Tsubaki
As much as you'd like to think Japanese is impossible, try Chinese where there's like 10-20x as many "kanji". Written Japanese is quite easy in comparison, largely in part that it has an "alphabet" system.
Japanese is actually not that hard. It's just a big adjustment learning to understand new characters.
I'd imagine he's referring to the numerous RPG's that don't make their way over here because they are crap. How many games get released in a year in Japan? How many of those make it over here? A good percentage that don't make it are probably shit, though I haven't, of course, played them all.Quote:
Originally posted by Tsubaki
Fact: You just stated that Japanese-only RPGs that you haven't played are automatically crappy. Wow... what a nice claim. It obviously can't be "no one else here plays" because Shou-sama has played and enjoyed Growlanser. Frogacuda has played and enjoyed Tales of Phantasia. PaCrappa has played and enjoyed Black/Matrix. etc etc.
Look, the PSX rev might not be as good as the original Saturn version. There is no denying that. I am sure the Saturn version has many advantages such as the dialogue, voice acting, and graphical perfection.. but there really was nothing wrong with the PSX version that detracted from the experience. I played the PSX version and I loved it. It's one of my top 3 games of all time. I know several other people who loved it just as much. If it was "so bad" then people would not have been able to enjoy it that much. I didn't notice a single problem and it's only when compared to the Saturn version when there are some things you can nitpick about.Quote:
Originally posted by BonusKun
Burg,
I played the PS version but I also played the Saturn version 1st.
The translation was spot on for the PS but the game wasn't made or written to be run on the PlayStation. It was a sloppy piece of shit port.
If Grandia PSX was the only version that came out I don't think anyonee would havee bitched about any of this. The game is fine. No, it's great.
The Saturn version is clearly the best and I am still a bit heartbroken that it was never officially released for Saturn in NA because I was hoping for that for a long time.... but the PSX version, while not perfect, is way more than adequate.
Like I said, one of my top 3 games ever... :)
Come on now, I think we all know plenty of good and great games from all genres that didn't make it to NA. Quality is not always the deciding factor. Many times games don't make it over simply because of their style or some other strange reason. Sometimes the fact that NA gamers simply don't buy certain games in significant enough #s to justify porting the game. That does not mean the game is any less good. I'd personally love to have English language versions of Mr Driller, the new Klonoa games, Fire Emblem, Grandia for Saturn (!), about 30 other Saturn games, Cardfighter's Clash 2, Segagaga, Napple Tale, Magical Vacation, the Let's Make a Pro Soccer/Baseball Series, and countless other games (including many I've never heard of or can't remember because they're inaccesable to me)... way more than I can list. There are plenty of import game enthusiasts here who have way more import games than I do (I only have around 10 so far) and I think it's pretty silly to say that they only like crappy games that are not good enough for NA. There are plenty of quality games released only in Japanese.Quote:
Originally posted by taloony
I'd imagine he's referring to the numerous RPG's that don't make their way over here because they are crap. How many games get released in a year in Japan? How many of those make it over here? A good percentage that don't make it are probably shit, though I haven't, of course, played them all.
While you're right that a lot of crap gets filtered, there are plenty of gems left in Japan too. You win some, you lose some. Ultimately, though, even if all the crappy games came here, you could choose not to buy them. But nothing short of importing can allow you to play some of the greatest games out there.Quote:
Originally posted by taloony
I'd imagine he's referring to the numerous RPG's that don't make their way over here because they are crap. How many games get released in a year in Japan? How many of those make it over here? A good percentage that don't make it are probably shit, though I haven't, of course, played them all.
And diffusionx simply stated When I say "crappy" or "piece of shit", Im referring to RPGs in Japanese that you rave about that nobody else here plays because they dont pretend to be Japanese, so it's not about the crappy Japanese games. It's either about 1) a ridiculous claim that things he hasn't played are automatically bad or 2) he's got a vendetta against me, which is totally fine. I don't like him either. But I'm not making all these baseless accusations trying to provoke him.
Thats good to hear. I dont like you at all. If it wasn't blatantly obvious already.Quote:
Originally posted by Tsubaki
I don't like him either.
Can't we all just get along?
It's beginning to look a lot like Fight Club...
All I Want For Fight Club Are My Two Front Teeth.
The Night Before Fight Club.
O Little Town Of Fight Club
Rudolph The Fight Club Reindeer.
C'mon, get in the seasonal mood!
I've been studying Japanese seriously for about two weeks now, spending only about an hour or two a day. It hasn't been that hard for me, actually. The only previous experience I've had in learning a foreign language is a single year of Spanish in an American High School.
I think it's just as worthwhile to learn as a language as any other. Hell, as fucking video game enthusiast, I see shitloads of reasons to learn it. Soon enough, I'll be delving into Japanese-only websites and other publications where I can learn more about cool shit I've never heard about before here in the States.
Hey, wait a second, I've already started doing that. :P
God, Diff, you're so un-hardcore it's not even funny. Learn Japanese, play obscure, shitty RPGs, and become a virgin again, and then maybe you can hang with Tsubaki. Pfft.
Right, because the only Japanese games that aren't released in America are definitely within the RPG genre.
Poor Tsubaki.
Had he known he was going to face up against DiffusionX & His Cocksucking Crew, he probably wouldn't have bothered. Then again I'm not his attorney.
What an obnoxious brew of xenophobia and proud anti-intellectualism.
14!? No wonder the Finns are notorious for never speaking to one another.Quote:
Originally posted by sggg
Finnish alone has something like 14 cases which make it so that word order in sentences does not even matter.
My only previous exposure to learning languages was with teutonic and romantic tongues, but I've found Japanese pretty tough. The manner of thinking and presenting ideas is very different from western languages, and trying to get through a sentence without using pronouns can be a headache.Quote:
Japanese is actually not that hard. It's just a big adjustment learning to understand new characters.
As for Japanese vs. Chinese, learning to read either sucks equally.
:lol: Wait until you to something tougher than saying your name and asking what time it is. You've got some fun headed your way, believe me.Quote:
Originally posted by Chakan
I've been studying Japanese seriously for about two weeks now, spending only about an hour or two a day. It hasn't been that hard for me, actually.
You're making assumptions about my ability to learn something, man. That's not very polite. :PQuote:
Originally posted by StriderKyo
:lol: Wait until you to something tougher than saying your name and asking what time it is. You've got some fun headed your way, believe me.
I'm also not bothering with focusing on learning how to speak or write in Japanese. I'm focusing primarily on reading and comprehending sentences written in Japanese.
At least for now.
Quote:
Originally posted by Chakan
You're making assumptions about my ability to learn something, man. That's not very polite. :P
I'm also not bothering with focusing on learning how to speak or write in Japanese. I'm focusing primarily on reading and comprehending sentences written in Japanese.
I wasn't making any comments about you personally at all, just on the fact that you've only been at it for two weeks. It's a language that takes years to get down, even for the MENSA members among us. Especially if you're not actually living the language.
It isn't super-string physics or anything, but it's not a walk in the park either. There's a ton of memorization involved and some awkward concepts to wrap your head around down the line.
Quote:
Originally posted by sggg
Come on now, I think we all know plenty of good and great games from all genres that didn't make it to NA. Quality is not always the deciding factor. Many times games don't make it over simply because of their style or some other strange reason. Sometimes the fact that NA gamers simply don't buy certain games in significant enough #s to justify porting the game. That does not mean the game is any less good. I'd personally love to have English language versions of Mr Driller, the new Klonoa games, Fire Emblem, Grandia for Saturn (!), about 30 other Saturn games, Cardfighter's Clash 2, Segagaga, Napple Tale, Magical Vacation, the Let's Make a Pro Soccer/Baseball Series, and countless other games (including many I've never heard of or can't remember because they're inaccesable to me)... way more than I can list. There are plenty of import game enthusiasts here who have way more import games than I do (I only have around 10 so far) and I think it's pretty silly to say that they only like crappy games that are not good enough for NA. There are plenty of quality games released only in Japanese.
Of course it's not only the poor games that don't make it here. That's not entirely what I meant. How many western games are their that are shit? Tons. I was just trying to use an example related to the topic..
Oh, I definitely agree with that, Kyo. Like most languages, it takes time. There's only so much you can take in and full understand in a single day.