Equilibrium - My review

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Originally Posted by Dolemite

Mmmm....crack....

Seriously, though, I'll admit that Reloaded killed EQ in terms of effects and the amount of action secnes...I just found EQ more enjoyable to watch, especially compared to what a let-down I found Reloaded to be after the original Matrix. Personally, I think the people who think Reloaded is an amazing movie are the ones on crack...it's good, but weak in many areas. And at least EQ doesn't have a gay orgy/rave scene like the one in Zion.

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I saw the purpose for everything in Reloaded, even the Orgy scene. So while I won't say MR has no flaws, I'm not gonna say it wasn't amazing. At least compared to EQ, it was.

Why they had to be compared in the first place, I'll never know. I think it's rather unfair. One's a self-contained story. The other is an epic trilogy. They're aiming for different things. EQ is more drama than action, the Matrix is more action than drama. You get the picture.

But I wouldn't go so far as diffusionx either. I can see why someone would love this movie. It is a cool little movie. I just can't see how it's better than MR, mostly from an objective view. Maybe one day, I'll watch them back to back and compare more critically, but I doubt the result will be any different.

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A movie should be able to stand on it's own, even a sequel. revolutions may be the most amazing movie ever made, but it won't make me like Reloaded any more.

Personally, I liked the action scenes in MR (I liked EQ's more), it's the story that killed it for me. Lame.

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Well that's one area (story) you can't truly judge yet, since there is still far too much left to explain in Revolutions. I'm a firm believer in "Everything happens for a reason", and we'll find out the reason for MR's convoluted storyline soon enough (but hey, I still enjoyed it).

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However, the actions scenes in MR were so overloaded with CG and effects that I became numbed to it. Movies like EQ that do everything real-time are more exciting, at least to me. Hell, even Jackie Chan's using computer effects now. :(

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That's what happens when you need to make your characters do things no ordinary (or extraordinary, for that matter) person can. I accepted that, and just went with it.

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No offence, but you seem to have missed the point of what Rumpy was saying. He was explaining how what happens in either movie if fine as long as you get into and believe in the whole concept behind them. He wasn't just backing your arguement. Corrent me if I'm wrong, Rumpy.

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I was using his argument to back up mine.

Believability is key, but just because the movie shows you something doesn't mean you should automatically believe it. The director has a responsibility to also give a good enough explanation for why things happen, and if they don't the movie suffers for it. I didn't get a good enough reason.

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This kinda bothered me too. Neo's supposed to be "The One", a super bad-ass motherfucker and he really didn't seem to be able to hurt anyone in that scene for a while. Personally, I think he should have just been able to hit the guys once or twice and put them through a fucking wall. None of the blows he laid on them seemed to have much impact. I didn't mind what happened the ther Burly Brawl, however. That just aimed at being over-the-top and that's what it was. Though it would have been nice to see some of the Smiths take at least a little damage. Neo has the moves but he must hit like a pussy. ;)

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I took it as he was having fun. Hell, if I were "The One", I'd toy around with my prey until I was done with my enjoyment, then kill them. :evil:

Just like Neo did.

Look at it this way. It's like the evil super-villian thing to do. You don't just sneak up behing the hero and kill him, no, for that's too easy and not enough fun. You toy with him and plan this overly-elaborate plot to trap him. And then you kill him.;) Much more fun for the whole family.:lol:

I doubt that Neo was having fun, especially with all the urgency of the storyline. It was just a waste of time, and they could have given the viewers better scenes, than overly long, fighting, especially if at the end it didnt resolve anything, and Neo just flew away.

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Originally Posted by SonofdonCD

Why they had to be compared in the first place, I'll never know. I think it's rather unfair. One's a self-contained story. The other is an epic trilogy. They're aiming for different things. EQ is more drama than action, the Matrix is more action than drama. You get the picture.

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I'm not sure how the whole camparison started. It probably came from the limited advertersing where they tried their best to make EQ look like a Matrix clone, which it's anything but. I guess it's because they wear black and fire guns an' stuff.

Of course, it could also be Despair's fault. ;)

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But I wouldn't go so far as diffusionx either. I can see why someone would love this movie. It is a cool little movie. I just can't see how it's better than MR, mostly from an objective view. Maybe one day, I'll watch them back to back and compare more critically, but I doubt the result will be any different.

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Hey, I appreciate your open mind. I'll probably give MR a rent when it comes out. It had its good points, to be sure. I can certainly understand someone loving it as well.

My main complaint about MR? Trinity got REEAALL ulgy since the original movie. Come on, you have to admit it. The bod's still good but she became a real butterface. :D

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Look at it this way. It's like the evil super-villian thing to do. You don't just sneak up behing the hero and kill him, no, for that's too easy and not enough fun. You toy with him and plan this overly-elaborate plot to trap him. And then you kill him.;) Much more fun for the whole family.:lol:

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Heh...I don't think that's what Neo was doing, especially based on Despair's comment about the urgency of the storyline, but that's still a fun way to look at it. :)

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Originally Posted by SonofdonCD

Why they had to be compared in the first place, I'll never know. I think it's rather unfair. One's a self-contained story. The other is an epic trilogy. They're aiming for different things. EQ is more drama than action, the Matrix is more action than drama. You get the picture.

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If EQ is more drama than action... my God, then its the worst fucking drama Ive ever heard of. I mean, seriously, the storyline is terrible. Its cliched garbage. Yes, Matrix Reloaded is full of silly kiddie philosophical garbage, but at least it throws something to the screen other than super-generic stock bullshit thats been covered in plenty of classic novels that we were all forced to read in high school. But I guess if English isn't your first language or you never read those books I guess its cool to think that EQ had a good story, but I assure you its a fucking rip-off job from start to finish, and the estates of Huxley, Orwell, and Bradbury (well he's still alive) should have dispatched the lawyers to Wimmer's front door once this shit hit the screens. EQ = 1984 + Brave New World + Fahrenheit 451. Its absolutely completely unenjoyable trash, and its made even worse by the immaturity of it all. Oh, a secret underground group that Preston discovers! Hmm, I smell Fahrenheit 451! A drug people take to keep them under control! Sounds like Brave New World. A "Father" that doesnt really exist, its just kept around to make the people happy! Hmm, 1984 anyone? There's nothing good about the storyline at all, and it doesn't make any attempt at challenging the audience, what with the bog-standard happy ending it has. Oh, his kid hasnt been taking his medicine either! How cute! Oh the people are now free, just like they are in Riki-Oh: The Story of Rickey! Hooray! EQ's storyline is seriously a huge fucking pile of shit.

Matrix Reloaded may be challenging nobody but stoners and people who haven't taken Philosophy 101, but still! At least it's trying for something!

And like I said earlier, the action scenes in EQ aren't good. They're crap. They are Christian Bale standing still and swinging his arms around in the compass directions while people fall. Oh yea, and he does some pose at the end so he can look badass and hopefully trick some people into thinking the whole thing was badass. But in reality they are absolutely ridiculous and stupid. And hey MR may have sucked but it did have the traffic chase scene, which I maintain is the sickest action scene I've yet seen. I mean, hey, it may not have resolved anything, it may not have meant anything to the storyline, but it was some fucking amazing adrenaline-pumping eye-candy. You may not like CTHD or Drunken Master 2 (as an example) from the story-perspective but at least they had some brilliant fighting scenes, so there you go. All of this is more than I can say for EQ's super-short action scenes. And, as I already discussed, EQ's storyline is trash anyway so all it has to go on is its action scenes. And those sucked. Which means there's not much left for the movie to hang its hat on. Unless you want to count the shitbag CG cityscapes, but let's not count those at all.

Look, to be honest, I really dont think its fair to compare MR to EQ. I mean, MR's budget was probably about 5 times that of EQ's. MR is also the middle part of a trilogy, whatever, blah blah. It's all been said before, so complaining that MR's storyline didnt resolve anything is just a retarded thing to do. But I digress.

Just on its own, though, Equilibrium is a pretty shitty movie with crummy American-style fight scenes that are more on the level of Best of the Best than anything else and a nonsense storyline that should excite nobody but 5th graders. Puh-leeze.

But I mean, hey, its your life, like it if you want. But this argument is really stupid. Don't compare Matrix Reloaded to Equilibrium. They are two very different films. And I must say, if it were not for this thread, I would probably just throw it onto the pile of shitty movies I have seen and forget about it... but now Im seriously starting to grow some serious dislike and/or hatred for it. I would also say that I think Master was onto something when he called it an affront to filmmaking, too. Oh well.

I managed to catch this in the theaters while it was out for all of two weeks. Before it came out, I hadn't even heard of the film and knew absolutely nothing about it. Then, I saw it mentioned on some film site (don't remember which at the moment, though it might have been AICN). They had good things to say, so I popped over to quicktime.com and watched the trailer. That damn thing blew me away, and I knew I had to see it. I checked my local listings and saw that one theater was showing it near me (if you call forty miles away near), so I jumped in the car and headed out. When I finally got in the theater there were only two other people there, and all of us looked at each other like "I'm not sure what we're in for, but I'm happy to have you here with me."

Anyway, a couple hours later, and I was slack-jawed in amazement. Christian Bale was like a gun god in that film, and while I had enjoyed his work before in American Psycho, I had no idea he was capable of such grace and power. The story, while not all that original, I thought was still handled well, all of the characters were nicely drawn, and the action was just about the most amazing thing I'd ever seen. Just incredile. When I got back to work the next day, I immediately ran to all of my coworkers and told them about it. Of course, none of them had heard of it, so I showed them the trailer, and they all were interested in it. The next weekend I wanted to see it again, but by then it was too late and had been pulled. I was gutted...

Luckily, I got the DVD the day it came out (the Best Buy only got a handful of copies, and I got the first one), and I think I've watched it about three times since then. Twice for the two commentaries, and once to show my brother, who also now ownes the DVD.

As for the Matrix comparisons, I'm not going to go there. They are completely different films, and about all they have in common are copious amounts of ammo and dark clothes. Other than that, they are different beasts, and I won't muddy the waters by comparing them.

Despair, I have to pat you on the back for putting so much effort into getting the word out on this fantastic film. Don't let the pseudo-intellectual elitists get you down. Fuck 'em. Equilibrium kicked ass.

Oh, dont worry Reaver. I understand that not everyone going to enjoy EQ, but about 90% of people that I reccomended it to, loved it. So I feel that my mission was a success :p

I really enjoyed this movie and showed it to at least ten of my friends, who also enjoyed it. And I'm sick of people talking about how it ripped off 1984, new world order, etc. It's not like this is the first movie that has ever borrowed a plot from a book. My friend has read 1984 about 5 times, and he loved equilibrium.

Hey nixhex, Ive read 1984 three times, so...

I got no problem with people ripping off ideas from a book for a movie, for a comic, for whatever... but theres a difference between using it to *inspire* a film and what Wimmer did, which was just a straight-up fucking CTRL-C, CTRL-V, mix-and-match hatchet job without giving them any credit to the best of my knowledge. Hell even 10 Things I Hate about You gave credit to the Bard.

To call Equilibrium thought-provoking, which Despair has done many times in this thread, is a fucking insult and then some to Orwell, Huxley, Bradbury, et. al. Like I said, its completely brainless trash. But Ive said my piece.

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Originally Posted by diffusionx

Hey nixhex, Ive read 1984 three times, so...

I got no problem with people ripping off ideas from a book for a movie, for a comic, for whatever... but theres a difference between using it to *inspire* a film and what Wimmer did, which was just a straight-up fucking CTRL-C, CTRL-V, mix-and-match hatchet job without giving them any credit to the best of my knowledge. Hell even 10 Things I Hate about You gave credit to the Bard.

To call Equilibrium thought-provoking, which Despair has done many times in this thread, is a fucking insult and then some to Orwell, Huxley, Bradbury, et. al. Like I said, its completely brainless trash. But Ive said my piece.

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The plot is full of holes and is a rehash, but I still enjoyed the film. My main gripe with MR, first off is that it had nothing to offer me in the action category, since I have been watching the best Asia has to offer for over a decade now. Plus, these writers think they are impressing us with their dialogue (especially evident in the crap that the architect is trying to convince us is intelligent language!). And honestly, Matrix is as much a cut and paste job as EQ.

Now on the why I like and recommend EQ -- because of the fight scenes, I've already made a strong point about this. The whole idea of gunkata is a new and refreshing one. Now it may not have been exectued to its full extent in this film, but it has potential and I hope it is developed more fully for future projects.

If you understand the martial arts genre, especially its evolution in HK, you'll see how much Gunkata really brings to the genre. For years (during the peak in the mid-80s through early 90s) HK was producing film after film that were mainly attempts at outdoing the action each time. Different techniques, styles, camera angels, etc. You had Jackie basically defining one form, while the new wave elements brought gunplay into the mix. By the time the mid-nineties rolled around, there was very little new attempts to be seen. People had for the most part stopped trying to outdo each other. There were brief inspirations here and there but for the most part the martial arts film ceased to evolve and in my opinion has devolving ever since.

Now throughout these golden years of HK, you had other countries like the US copying and pasting styles and even complete scenes (Batman & Robin features a scene with Chris O'Donnel ripped right from Yuen Biao's Dreadnaught, there are many more examples of this too). More recently the world was stormed by CTHD. A brilliant film and definitely worthy of its accolades. But the action? We've seen it all before. It is merely an homage to the work King Hu did more than 30 years ago in Come Drink with Me and a Touch of Zen. Yes it's brilliant, but it is classic Yuen Wo Ping and does not reinvent the martial arts genre in anyway, it simply reinforces it.

Now on to EQ, and film most of you will say is not worthy of being called a reniventor of the martial arts genre. And it might not be, but what it does do is throw a new element into the mix. It takes elements of what we've seen before, John Woo gunplay, close hand to hand combat, but it gives us hope and a new form of screen action. It brings a new idea into the dying world of the martial arts film. And this is how the genre has always survived. New ideas, lead to other new ideas, and so on. Matrix Reloaded has not done that (Yes the first film did make good use of the slow mo cam that HK was using for years and because they had the technology, they could make it look really good! -- I like the first film BTW). CTHD did not do that. These are Yuen Wo Ping films through and through. Just with bigger budgets. I've seen the same stuff years ago, the same moves, same fist styles, same stances. Not that I don't enjoy them, but a new idea helps to stir the pot a lot more.

So give EQ a try. But view it for what it is. Yes it has holes and yes the action is not as evolved as Matrix or CTHD, because it hasn't had years and years to develop. EQ gives us hope that some people are trying something new. Trying to reinvent the martial arts genre, not just cover it with CGI and wirework.

PS -- go read my review of Drunken Monkey and buy the DVD!

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Originally Posted by diffusionx

Hey nixhex, Ive read 1984 three times, so...

I got no problem with people ripping off ideas from a book for a movie, for a comic, for whatever... but theres a difference between using it to *inspire* a film and what Wimmer did, which was just a straight-up fucking CTRL-C, CTRL-V, mix-and-match hatchet job without giving them any credit to the best of my knowledge. Hell even 10 Things I Hate about You gave credit to the Bard.

To call Equilibrium thought-provoking, which Despair has done many times in this thread, is a fucking insult and then some to Orwell, Huxley, Bradbury, et. al. Like I said, its completely brainless trash. But Ive said my piece.

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Well, You can call it a cheap copy-paste job all you want, it doesnt mean it was bad, just because YOU think so. I never said it was ORIGINAL in the storyline, and I see it more as a homage or adaptation of few ideas found in classic works of literature, that Diffusionx is relentlessly mentiones again and again. But again, even though the plot is a copy, it doesnt mean that you cant think about it. You keep bringing on that you read those book many times. Good for you. I read Braedbury too(unfortunately I didnt had chance to read other 2 authors yet), but I am familiar enough with the ideas that those books represent, and still I am willing to give EQ a chance, something that you seems not capable to.

The area where I called EQ inventive it was in action department, which is very impressive, something many, including above post by Ssbombermen said before, but you seem to completely ignore.