Pocket Gaming with PDAs

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12 Jan 2003, 02:39 AM
andyrose

Pocket Gaming with PDAs

Pocket Gaming is a lot of fun. No, I'm not talking about the Gameboy, the Lynx, or the NeoGeo Pocket Color, I'm talking about Personal Digital Assistants(PDAs).

I've had a Sony Clie S300 for the past 2 years, and it's done a good job of keeping me occupied when I have nothing else to do. It, like all Sony PDAs, runs on an operating system developed by Palm, aptly titled the Palm Operating System. The OS allowed me to play quite a few games I found fun, including Tetris, Asteroids, Pong, and even a few crudely fashioned RPGs. The problem was, the screen was monochrome, not to mention that the PDAs that run the OS just aren't powerful enough to make the jump into next-gen gaming.

http://www.neomega.net/images/variou...c/P1010010.jpg

That's why I trashed my Palm based PDA and recently moved up to an HP Jornada 568, a device that runs a version of Microsoft's Windows operating system called Pocket PC 2002. Devices that use Pocket PC 2002 are many times more powerful than their Palm based bretheren, and that means higher quality games.

http://www.neomega.net/images/variou...c/Capt0004.gif

Quake. Pacman. Super Mario Bros. All in your hands.

http://www.neomega.net/images/variou...c/Capt0007.jpg

These games run perfectly on my HP. The Quake code is almost identical to it's PC counterpart, so you're not just playing a dumbed down version. The first time I saw this game running in my hand, my jaw dropped. Here's a link to some [img=http://www.neomega.net/images/various/pocketpc/]screenshots[/img] I took. Yes, I took screenshots of my PDA desktop.

I can only see good things for the future of PDAs and gaming. I have quite a few titles that are keeping my fingers busy, yet PDA gaming is still in it's infancy. There aren't that many game companies devoting time to developing titles for Pocket PCs, but I think that's going to change very soon.

If you've been thinking about getting a PDA, here is some advice if you're looking for something to play games on as well.

PALM Operating System: Quick, simple, and minimal hassle. The code that the OS is based on is extremely tight, so you're not going to have a lot of crashes and incompatibility. The downside to this is that devices that use the Palm OS are often underpowered with low quality screens. Those 2 are counter-balanced by the overflow of software available for Palm PDAs, though. If Pong and Asteroids are all that you need, and cost does matter(Palm based devices are almost always cheaper than Pocket PC ones), this may be the one you want.

Pocket PC: Extremely powerful, versatile, but it is Windows..... The main reason I moved to Pocket PC was that it lets you play MPEG video, MP3 music, and play more advanced games. With all of this power comes some slight instability with the Operating System. You will get slow down every once in awhile if you load a lot of games/movies/music on your device, and you'll probably have to reset it every once in awhile. That being said, I think that the games you can play on these things more than makes up for any problems you'll have with instability. Have you ever wanted to play Quake or Pacman on a handheld? You'll be able to do it with this. Pocket PCs are quite a bit more expensive, however, so it is going to cost you.

Palm devices start at around $90, Pocket PCs at around $2-300.
12 Jan 2003, 02:46 AM
NeoZeedeater

Despite the great games now available on PDA, I find the machines themselves are very uncomfortable and awkward to play with.
12 Jan 2003, 02:49 AM
burgundy

I have the same complaint with cell phone gaming.
12 Jan 2003, 03:07 AM
andyrose

The direction pad in the middle of mine is pretty decent for games, but it's still pretty awkward playing Doom or Quake. In Quake's case, you actually have to have your left hand on the direction pad strafing and moving forward while your right one taps the screen with the stylus to look up/down, and to turn left/right. It's not the ideal setup, needless to say.
12 Jan 2003, 05:42 AM
ginaman

If I was gonna do mobile gaming, I'd probably want one of these.

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~mrbogus/vaiou3.jpg

Sony's japan-only Vaio U3. Dang thing is only 7x5 inches in size, wth a 1024x768 screen. Now it costs a bit, and its a Sony product, which may kill any sort of quality control, but it would be really sweet to play pc games on.
12 Jan 2003, 06:11 AM
Schlep

I tried playing Kirby on my Toshiba e310, but I guess it's not suited to running games. :(
12 Jan 2003, 09:32 AM
Yoshi

A Vaio laptop for gaming? :lol: Even Sony's desktops have bad video cards for gaming. I should know - my last PC was one. This is the uber GameBoy:

http://www.alienware.com/main/images/a51_big.jpg
The Alienware Area 51m.
12 Jan 2003, 12:46 PM
Superstition

All I have is solitair on my Toshiba e330. I have too much info on it to slow it down with games, but it is nice to see some cool stuff come out for it. My co-workers spend all their time playing Dope Wars and Bejewelled on their Handsprings.
12 Jan 2003, 01:18 PM
Jeremy

That Alienware laptop reminds me of the girl in the Excorcist puking up pea soup. I can't see myself playing ANYTHING on a unit that looks like that. Sure it's powerful as hell, but DAMN.
12 Jan 2003, 01:21 PM
remotec

yeah, that alienware laptop weighs so much you mine as well lug a desktop computer around with you.

There's also embedded Linux for pda's, the Sharp Zaurus being the most notable entry. Also plenty powerful enough for gaming, and plenty of games available for it.

They just released Tombraider for the PocketPC, pretty much identical to the Playstation version just lower res.

But in the end, unless you can get a decent gamepad attachment for your pda, pda gaming sucks. The ergonomics of the machine clearly did not have gaming in mind.
12 Jan 2003, 01:24 PM
Yoshi

Quote:

Originally posted by Jeremy
That Alienware laptop reminds me of the girl in the Excorcist puking up pea soup. I can't see myself playing ANYTHING on a unit that looks like that. Sure it's powerful as hell, but DAMN.

Then you get a different color...
12 Jan 2003, 01:27 PM
Jeremy

They come in different colors? Thank God.
12 Jan 2003, 01:30 PM
Yoshi

Quote:

Originally posted by remotec
They just released Tombraider for the PocketPC, pretty much identical to the Playstation version just lower res.

So it's the Saturn version? :p
12 Jan 2003, 01:33 PM
remotec

A 10lb laptop is useless, no matter how powerful it may be. It will be relegated to a makeshift desktop computer within a week of purchase.
12 Jan 2003, 01:35 PM
FirstBlood

... if i had a small, kinda weak laptop, i'd use it to play emulators on the go

*OMFGPIRACYBYEMULATION*
12 Jan 2003, 02:38 PM
Six

Re: Pocket Gaming with PDAs

Quote:

from andyrose
Devices that use Pocket PC 2002 are many times more powerful than their Palm based bretheren, and that means higher quality games.

The new OS5 (Sony NX & Tungsten) units have the highres screens and power that you "need" in a PDA. The pocketPC units approach the PDA more like a PC - more of anything is always better - which accounts for their increased power processors and memory, IMHO.

Quote:

I can only see good things for the future of PDAs and gaming. I have quite a few titles that are keeping my fingers busy, yet PDA gaming is still in it's infancy.

I'm from the camp that renounces such utitlity devices as a PDA for use in anything more serious than Bejeweled or similar time wasters. Any serious gaming on a PDA would require an entire overhaul of the input systems. Granted there are "controller accessories" (Sony controller accessory) that attempt the replicate a gamepad, but my experiences with them have been disappointing at best.

Quote:

The downside to this is that devices that use the Palm OS are often underpowered with low quality screens.

Again, see the new units from Palm Tungsten and Sony Sony NX Series or the new NZ series are competing with the PocketPCs in terms of color/graphical resolution and processing power. In addition there are some new models from HP that cater to the lower end market of PocketPC users like the HP h1910. Things are looking good for both the Palm (more power) and PocketPC (affordability) sides.

Quote:

Pocket PC: Extremely powerful, versatile, but it is Windows..... The main reason I moved to Pocket PC was that it lets you play MPEG video, MP3 music, and play more advanced games.

Again I think that this is misleading ;) My Sony NX60 can play Mpeg and Mp3, comes with a headphone/remote set for the mp3 player function, has a larger highres screen and has processing power to spare for games. I just didn't purchase my Palm unit or my cell phone with the gaming aspect in mind - it's not what they were designed for IMHO.

I think that until thought in the design aspect is given to gaming the PDA game scene won't be going beyond the state it is in now.

I gotta go eat. Just my $0.02

#6
12 Jan 2003, 03:25 PM
DArque Bishop

Hrm.

I have two PDA's right now... a Handspring Visor Pro, and a Handspring Visor. Like the Sony PDA's, they run PalmOS. The Pro is actually my primary PDA; the original Visor is kept at home w/o batteries in case anything should happen to the Pro. I also have a VisorPhone attachment for the Visors, which let them act as my cell phone. If I leave the house, the PDA's coming with me.

That said, other than a copy of SolFree (Solitaire), I have absolutely no games on my Visors, and I don't plan on getting any. These devices are purely for function IMHO; if I want to have anything more than a quick cardgame if I'm out and about, I'll take my GBA with me. I just don't see the point unless you have something that's actually designed for gaming. Quake on a PocketPC? Yuck.

(BTW, for the record, andyrose, you're probably one of the very few people I've met who prefers PocketPC devices to Palms. I guess it's a matter of personal preference; at where I work, you almost never see PocketPC's anymore. Those who have had them have since switched to Handspring or Palm devices.)

Edit: There's also one other point I should bring up... there's no real point bringing up that the PocketPC devices are more powerful than their PalmOS-based bretheren, because unless I'm mistaken, PocketPC 2002 requires more powerful hardware to run on than PalmOS does. :) Such comparisons can backfire; we have two production proxy servers at the office running MS Windows 2000 Server w/ MS ISA proxy software, and so far my test proxy server running Red Hat Linux 8.0 w/ Squid 2.5 STABLE1 proxy software is going as fast (if not faster) than the production servers... and the test server's processor speed and memory is about half that of the production servers. :)

Just my $.02...
12 Jan 2003, 04:16 PM
remotec

http://www.pdabuyersguide.com/games/...tombraider.jpg

That's tombraider on a pocketpc. It's at least, interesting. Portable gaming's about to take the dive into 3D (that is, if Nintendo will allow it). Not to mention the devices from Nokia and Ericcson.

Whether 3D on portables is a good thing is another discussion...
12 Jan 2003, 04:21 PM
Jeremy

Holy crap, that looks fantastic.
12 Jan 2003, 05:08 PM
Yoshi

Quote:

Originally posted by Jeremy
Holy crap, that looks fantastic.

Graphically. The control simply has to be awful. I can't imagine how a game that requires the precision of TR coud even be playable on those things.
12 Jan 2003, 05:12 PM
MechDeus

Quote:

Originally posted by Yoshi
Graphically. The control simply has to be awful. I can't imagine how a game that requires the precision of TR coud even be playable on those things.

Precision my ass. :p The only thing I'm worried about is the framerate... Actually, I'm not worried since I don't have nor plan on getting one. Although I did think about it or pieceing one together so I could have an arcade-perfect portable ESP RaDe.
12 Jan 2003, 05:35 PM
remotec

Well sure tombraider on a pda's gotta be awful, but the more general picture shows large and backlit screened, powerful machines capable of decent 3D graphics approaching the $200ish level. Give it another couple years and that will probably leak over into portable gaming in general.
12 Jan 2003, 05:38 PM
Jeremy

That won't happen while Nintendo still has a strong-hold on the portable market.
12 Jan 2003, 06:21 PM
Yoshi

Quote:

Originally posted by MechDeus
Although I did think about it or pieceing one together so I could have an arcade-perfect portable ESP RaDe.

You left out stolen, unless you have a PCB and a portable Super Gun in those plans.
13 Jan 2003, 12:04 AM
andyrose

Re: Re: Pocket Gaming with PDAs

Quote:

Originally posted by Six
The new OS5 (Sony NX & Tungsten) units have the highres screens and power that you "need" in a PDA. The pocketPC units approach the PDA more like a PC - more of anything is always better - which accounts for their increased power processors and memory, IMHO.

I'm from the camp that renounces such utitlity devices as a PDA for use in anything more serious than Bejeweled or similar time wasters. Any serious gaming on a PDA would require an entire overhaul of the input systems. Granted there are "controller accessories" (Sony controller accessory) that attempt the replicate a gamepad, but my experiences with them have been disappointing at best.

Again, see the new units from Palm Tungsten and Sony Sony NX Series or the new NZ series are competing with the PocketPCs in terms of color/graphical resolution and processing power. In addition there are some new models from HP that cater to the lower end market of PocketPC users like the HP h1910. Things are looking good for both the Palm (more power) and PocketPC (affordability) sides.

Again I think that this is misleading ;) My Sony NX60 can play Mpeg and Mp3, comes with a headphone/remote set for the mp3 player function, has a larger highres screen and has processing power to spare for games. I just didn't purchase my Palm unit or my cell phone with the gaming aspect in mind - it's not what they were designed for IMHO.

I think that until thought in the design aspect is given to gaming the PDA game scene won't be going beyond the state it is in now.

I gotta go eat. Just my $0.02

#6

I'd just like to note that I sell Palms/Pocket PCs for a living, so I have to stare at the Tungsten's/Clie's screen at least a few minutes a day while I'm selling them to customers. The screens are EXTREMELY nice.....for Palm handhelds. Compare the screens to a newer HP/Compaq/Toshiba, and you'll notice a huge difference.

And just to clarify, I'm not saying "Go out and buy a PDA to play games on, the controls are spot on and it's great and fun and stuff!". I just wanted to let people know that you CAN play some extremely sweet 3D games, as well as some classics, on PDAs.

Quote:

Originally posted by DArque Bishop
Hrm.

I have two PDA's right now... a Handspring Visor Pro, and a Handspring Visor. Like the Sony PDA's, they run PalmOS. The Pro is actually my primary PDA; the original Visor is kept at home w/o batteries in case anything should happen to the Pro. I also have a VisorPhone attachment for the Visors, which let them act as my cell phone. If I leave the house, the PDA's coming with me.

That said, other than a copy of SolFree (Solitaire), I have absolutely no games on my Visors, and I don't plan on getting any. These devices are purely for function IMHO; if I want to have anything more than a quick cardgame if I'm out and about, I'll take my GBA with me. I just don't see the point unless you have something that's actually designed for gaming. Quake on a PocketPC? Yuck.

(BTW, for the record, andyrose, you're probably one of the very few people I've met who prefers PocketPC devices to Palms. I guess it's a matter of personal preference; at where I work, you almost never see PocketPC's anymore. Those who have had them have since switched to Handspring or Palm devices.)

Edit: There's also one other point I should bring up... there's no real point bringing up that the PocketPC devices are more powerful than their PalmOS-based bretheren, because unless I'm mistaken, PocketPC 2002 requires more powerful hardware to run on than PalmOS does. :)

Actually, the processor is extremely important. Especially when talking about GAMING. Quake doesn't run well at all on anything but an ARM processor(or something more recent/more powerful). I think it was worth mentioning, at least.

Quote:

Such comparisons can backfire; we have two production proxy servers at the office running MS Windows 2000 Server w/ MS ISA proxy software, and so far my test proxy server running Red Hat Linux 8.0 w/ Squid 2.5 STABLE1 proxy software is going as fast (if not faster) than the production servers... and the test server's processor speed and memory is about half that of the production servers. :)

Just my $.02...

But do you use your servers to play games? Because that's what I was hinting at when discussing the processor speed. :p
13 Jan 2003, 12:15 AM
05pro

Here's Taito's latest take on Mobile/PDA gaming.

http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/...10/taito01.gif

http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/...10/taito02.gif

Better than Tomb Raider IMO:sweat:
13 Jan 2003, 12:16 AM
Jeremy

Wow, that shooting game looks pretty damn cool.
13 Jan 2003, 12:47 AM
GohanX

Some of my personal faves in Palm gaming are:

Spy Hunter. If you own a palm, you MUST get this game. It is THE killer app of Palm OS. Works great on both a color or a greyscale screen.

Evil UFO's. Hard as a mother, but it's fun.

Simcity: Pretty good, but hard to tell what's going on unless you have a color PDA.

Galax: Galaxian clone, but a damn good one. I actually prefer it to Galaxian that's on Namco Museum for GBA. Not as good as Galaga, though.

Monopoly: It's monopoly, and it is 4 players. It's good, although when I'm on the Palm I'm not sitting there long enough to really get a good game going.

Palmasutra: What? That's not a game! Fun to have though...

Since I switched to an Ipaq, I haven't really messed with it for gaming much, but I did get Pacman and Ms Pacman on it, and the conversions are great. The Ipaq itself, though, isn't so hot. The control pad on it would be good for slow-paced games, but Pacman gets hectic after a few levels and the arrow keys are too far apart. Pushing the pad down also counts as a seperate button which can be annoying.
13 Jan 2003, 05:14 PM
Six

Re: Re: Re: Pocket Gaming with PDAs

Quote:

Originally posted by andyrose
I'd just like to note that I sell Palms/Pocket PCs for a living, so I have to stare at the Tungsten's/Clie's screen at least a few minutes a day while I'm selling them to customers. The screens are EXTREMELY nice.....for Palm handhelds. Compare the screens to a newer HP/Compaq/Toshiba, and you'll notice a huge difference.

And just to clarify, I'm not saying "Go out and buy a PDA to play games on, the controls are spot on and it's great and fun and stuff!". I just wanted to let people know that you CAN play some extremely sweet 3D games, as well as some classics, on PDAs.

I agree with the difference in the screens, but I don't see it as being quite a "huge" difference. :) I'll try to do a thorough screen comparison tonight at work (since business has hit the after Christmas slump) though I won't deny that the Toshiba has a really nice screen - bright with wonderful color. But to me it all comes down to ease of OS use, software support and compatibility (with friends and associates PDAs - most of which own mid to low end Palm machines).

I didn't think that you *were* claiming the PDA as the Gameboy killer (I don't think any sane individual would), I just wanted to state my experiences with PDA games - though my PPC gaming has been minimal. I need to try Tomb Raider and Quake before I give up completely and should probably shut up until I do :sweat:

I don't know.

#6
14 Jan 2003, 04:37 AM
andyrose

Heh. I've decided that playing Quake on my PPC isn't as fun as I originally thought it was. Moving around is a complete and total bitch. Actually aiming and shooting enemies is hard as hell.

I'm still messing with the NES Mame emulator for it, apparently it'll take some haxoring to even get a game to RUN, let alone run well.

Palm has a gameboy emulator for it's OS, although I forget the name. Can't say I ever got it to work right, but I've heard from people that have used it.