State of the Union Address

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29 Jan 2003, 07:15 PM
Skeletor

Quote:

Originally posted by Jimmy Carter
I will be dead before I see the day that the UN sets our course of action or dictates our acitivies. The UN is nothing but a gathering of anti-US, anti-Semite complainers.

The UN is irrelevant in every function it was formed for. It doesn't keep peace, it doesn't ensure rights. The basic rights of mankind are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. So we have the right to be alive, free and able to work for whatever it is we want. Why is China part of the UN? Why is Libya leading the Human Rights Commission? Easy; the UN is irrelevant and worthless.

Too allow a group that says it endorses freedom, but embraces communism; that says it endorses life but embraces the death of people who're working for freedom; that says it endorses the ability of people to define for destiny yet embraces government control of thought and process- to allow a group like this to define American activities would be nothing short of catastrophic.

*stands up and claps*
29 Jan 2003, 07:17 PM
Brisco Bold

Quote:

Originally posted by Jimmy Carter
I will be dead before I see the day that the UN sets our course of action or dictates our acitivies. The UN is nothing but a gathering of anti-US, anti-Semite complainers.

The UN is irrelevant in every function it was formed for. It doesn't keep peace, it doesn't ensure rights. The basic rights of mankind are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. So we have the right to be alive, free and able to work for whatever it is we want. Why is China part of the UN? Why is Libya leading the Human Rights Commission? Easy; the UN is irrelevant and worthless.

Too allow a group that says it endorses freedom, but embraces communism; that says it endorses life but embraces the death of people who're working for freedom; that says it endorses the ability of people to define for destiny yet embraces government control of thought and process- to allow a group like this to define American activities would be nothing short of catastrophic.

The inclusion of Communist nations has to be put into political context (read: it had to be done, or else WWIII).

Libya's inclusion, well, I'll give you that; it's hard to extol the virtues of freedom and then include Libya in your organization.

I will grant you another thing: the UN is currently worthless, because UN is weak. Very weak. Not as weak as the LON, but weak nonetheless.

However, the spirit in which it was created, and its purpose, should not be over looked. Some checks to the US, and her policies, should exist. Although a unipolar world system has been stable for the past, um, 11 years, I don't like the fact that the US has free sway to do what it wishes, regardless of world support, esp. when it effects the world. No, I'm not suggesting that the US can do whatever the hell it wants with impunity, I'm just saying it can do more than other nations without suitable counter-vailing forces to oppose them, or make them reconsider.

Let me say that I do support the war (against Iraq). I just don't like the way they're going about it.

The UN could at least provide some counter-vailing force against US actions, only if it were strong.

BTW: UN = anti-US: probably has something to do with US foreign policy (issues like the war on Iraq)
UN = anti-semites: I've never heard this one before. Wanna enlighten me?

Quote:

Originally posted by Yeller_Dog
Remember when I said that? What? I didn't say that at all? Oh. Gotcha.

I don't give two damns about the UN. I do, however, feel the effects of a war with Iraq will impact the surrounding region, and our country's relationship with the rest of the planet. As a US citizen who sometimes likes to *gasp!* actually go outside the US now and then, I'd really prefer if the government didn't go about saying "your opinion doesn't matter" to the rest of the world...

Nevermind that the "War on Terror" doesn't do anything about 'real' terror, I.E. getting mugged, carjacked, randomly shot, etc., and by people from your own country, no less... I think those are bigger worries than "weapons of mass destruction".

On the other foot, what's funny is I actually liked a lot of the key points of Bush's speech. Alternitive power research? Rock on! Money going to AIDS in Africa? Hey, about time!

Lowering taxes so we can't pay for any of it? Great idea!-- wait...

Um, dude, he was talking to me. You sound angry...
29 Jan 2003, 07:28 PM
YellerDog

Quote:

Um, dude, he was talking to me. You sound angry...

Not originally he wasn't, anyway. I'm just late responding.

And no, not angry. :D
29 Jan 2003, 07:39 PM
Brisco Bold

I just didn't want you to start freaking out on Carter for the UN comment. That's all.
29 Jan 2003, 07:52 PM
Fe 26

UN sucks. If you don't agree go dig up a few comentaries on why it does suck. You might be suprised at the names of the writers.
29 Jan 2003, 08:03 PM
Jimmy Carter

Quote:

Originally posted by Yeller_Dog
Remember when I said that? What? I didn't say that at all? Oh. Gotcha.

It's all about implication. You were mocking the applause of the audience for stating that nobody but the US will decide what the US will do.

Quote:

I don't give two damns about the UN. I do, however, feel the effects of a war with Iraq will impact the surrounding region, and our country's relationship with the rest of the planet. As a US citizen who sometimes likes to *gasp!* actually go outside the US now and then, I'd really prefer if the government didn't go about saying "your opinion doesn't matter" to the rest of the world...

Funny, almost every other government says "your opinion doesn't matter" to us. France? Germany, anyone? A country should always act for its own best intentions without, or with little, interruption of other countries' business.

As for the surrounding region, they already hate Israel and the US, what on earth will us taking out a dictator do to that standing? Iran's Tehran (sp) hates us. The Saudis play lip service to us while funding the families of terrorists. Very few people beyond Israel and Turkey like us in the region and our actions will do little to affect that.

Quote:

Nevermind that the "War on Terror" doesn't do anything about 'real' terror, I.E. getting mugged, carjacked, randomly shot, etc., and by people from your own country, no less... I think those are bigger worries than "weapons of mass destruction".

You're confusing two problems here. One: street crimes and such are domestic/local problems. Problems for the police and domestic intelligence (read: FBI), not the military. Unless of course you'd like Bush to declare Martial Law.

Next, the WMD problem has much more potential terror than street crimes and the fact that carjacking is in your list of problems "bigger" than WMD and foreign terrorists worries me. But as it is, this is a problem for the military and foreign intelligence (read: NSA, CIA). There are seperate units for seperate problems and thusly, no problem is ignored.

Quote:

On the other foot, what's funny is I actually liked a lot of the key points of Bush's speech. Alternitive power research? Rock on! Money going to AIDS in Africa? Hey, about time!

Lowering taxes so we can't pay for any of it? Great idea!-- wait...

Worked for Reagan in the 80's, I see no reason why it should fail now. He raised spending on military and other fronts while cutting taxes. What happened? The economy boomed into the longest sustained time of prosperity ever. Every single income bracket experience growth, nobody was left behind. Businesses popped up everywhere while everyone brought home more of their paychecks. The government did very well and could afford every new project.

Quote:

UN = anti-semites: I've never heard this one before. Wanna enlighten me?

It's a long story, you'd have to watch how they deal with Israel. Which in itself is a massively complex situation that cannot be fully discussed in this thread, as it would take too much time.

They often overlook crimes against Jewish people, they serve as a massive complaint post against Israel (watch closely the things people say, it gets downright frightening at the lack of logic displayed by these people). You just need to watch the situation closely in order to fully understand it.

Quote:

Um, dude, he was talking to me. You sound angry...

No, I was indeed talking to him, Brisco. And he did seem angry but hey, that's his right.

And a note to Sleeveboy: My Reagan comment was not meant to offend. I want to get a pre-emptive in here as when I thought about it, it seemed like it could have seemed to be a mockery of what you'd said. Reagan, as it is, is my favorite president so when people compare the current situation to him, I'm happy. Should you dislike Reagan, as it seemed, that's quite alright. I just think he's cool.
29 Jan 2003, 08:08 PM
Brisco Bold

Quote:

Originally posted by Jimmy Carter

It's a long story, you'd have to watch how they deal with Israel. Which in itself is a massively complex situation that cannot be fully discussed in this thread, as it would take too much time.

They often overlook crimes against Jewish people, they serve as a massive complaint post against Israel (watch closely the things people say, it gets downright frightening at the lack of logic displayed by these people). You just need to watch the situation closely in order to fully understand it.

You know what? Thanks for the heads up. I'm going to keep an eye on this.

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