It doesn't look good.
Most TV channels are covering this breaking story...
EDIT my comments may have been premature
Printable View
It doesn't look good.
Most TV channels are covering this breaking story...
EDIT my comments may have been premature
Holy shit!
Dude...they are dead.
That video of those flaming chunks falling...man...
RIP.
Been hearing conflicting reports between small debris or the shuttle breaking in 3.
I dunno man, you've got an explosion on the ground, and video of something falling out of the sky in flaming pieces, and NASA saying that they lost contact at 9:16 eastern time and that it cannot stay up this long.
small debris falling off that thing, at that speed, is going to blow it up.
:(
Shoot. This is the second shuttle explosion in history. :(
:(
This is incredibly sad...
I grew up thinking the Space Shuttle was somehow impervious to re-entry... even after the Challenger happened.
I only hope it was sudden and painless for those onboard.
I never thought i'd see this happen again...
Really shakes one's faith in being able to control anything... so many scientists and calculations and controls, but nonetheless...
I would think so. I mean, 6x the speed of sound, Shuttle coming apart? They would instantly black out and die within milli-seconds.Quote:
Originally posted by Yeller_Dog
I only hope it was sudden and painless for those onboard.
Sad.
One final RIP. :(
I mean...
"It was at an altitude of 207,000 feet over north-central Texas at a 9 a.m., traveling at 12,500 mph..."
There is a speculation that this is a terrorist act, considering that the first Israeli astronauts were onboard. I don't see how they could have caused something like this, though.
R.I.P
I checked out Fox this morning to see if the new TMNT cartoon would be on and this was on. I couldn't believe it and my faith was shaken a bit.
Damn, I just read about it on the Yahoo. Terrible, and very sad. Especially with all the security that surrounded the launch, and this happen when landing :(
R.I.P 1st Israely astranaut :(
Absolutely awful; the video is difficult to watch. I can't believe how the families must feel.
And Isreal was so proud of their astronaut. Wow, what a sad day.
Wow, this is tragic on so many levels.
So was it entering our atmosphere or was it taking off?
Indeed.Quote:
Originally posted by Yeller_Dog
Really shakes one's faith in being able to control anything... so many scientists and calculations and controls, but nonetheless...
Re-entry.Quote:
Originally posted by ShineAqua
So was it entering our atmosphere or was it taking off?
Gon
NASA is struggling as it is, imagine the blow an incident like this is to them.
Why couldn't this happen to an 'Nsync kid.
Ilan Ramon was a national hero before he even took part in this shuttle launch. He's been involved with a lot of major military actions, attacks against Iraq, all that. This is really terrible.Quote:
Originally posted by Jimmy Carter
Absolutely awful; the video is difficult to watch. I can't believe how the families must feel.
And Isreal was so proud of their astronaut. Wow, what a sad day.
:(
This is seriously horrible. I cant believe it. I first read about it on CNN.com and I looked at it in disbelief.
This is truly a sad moment for us all. It really opens your eyes in that there are no guarantees in life, and you have to cherish each moment to its fullest. R.I.P to the brave souls aboard the shuttle.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...-2003Feb1.html
Credit goes to Nick.
Shine: Death shouldn't really be wished upon anyone. 'nSync or not...this is really a tragic event.
This is pretty tragic stuff folks. My mother has gone into work today on her day off to help out, she works for ABC News. Damn I'm proud of her. She worked on the day that the Challenger exploded, and felt that she should go in today and to what she can to help out. Definitely a sad day for NASA, as they've had a fantastic track record in the last decade. My prayers go out to the families of the victims of this tragedy. Parts of the debris have been found in, I think three or four states, it's amazing.
Color me ignorant, but why is this such a national tragedy? Granted, I do in fact feel for those dead and their families, but what makes this any worse than a serial killer who kills 7 people?
It reminds the mindless that America is far from flawless.
Space shuttle missions, particularly if you grew up in the mid-80s or before, were something that the whole country got behind. NASA, all that, was much more important to people's daily lives back then. So, when you saw or heard about a launch, or thought about astronauts, it all seemed heroic - representative of America, our technological prowess, the country's promise, all that.
That's been sort of lost, I think, or it will be lost soon.
I suppose that answers my question.
Now I need some video of the shuttle falling, instead of this crap Fox keeps playing over and over. See what happens when I wake up at 3? grr
It's not worse, just different.Quote:
Originally posted by Rich
...but what makes this any worse than a serial killer who kills 7 people?
It comes down to symbolism, partially. The seven on the shuttle, in addition to being among the best and brightest, represented the potential of individuals working towards a common good. There wasn't anything shady about their intentions up there; they were scientists, experts, pilots, etc. They were doing a Good Thing, nevermind how increasingly thankless that becomes these days.
Their deaths, on the other hand, put a spotlight on things like how sometimes, despite all planning, things can go very wrong very quickly...
Perhaps the symbolism is becoming increasingly lost on my generation, but, it didn't strike me as particularly tragic. There are plenty of people serving the country in various capacities all the time that get killed, and no one even cares. Fact is, the people involved knew that there was risk involved, that's just the way things go sometimes.
I think it's just you.Quote:
Originally posted by Apokryphos
Perhaps the symbolism is becoming increasingly lost on my generation, but, it didn't strike me as particularly tragic.
*shrug*
It would much more callous for me to think of the tragedy it is that so much of our tax dollars have paid for what is essentially flaming wreckage. Fact is, I didn't even know we had a shuttle in space until this thread was posted.
I had to call work and tell my boss to fly the flag a half-staff.
Apok sums up what I believe perfectly. The symbolism really has been lost on this most recent of generations, apparently. The only thing I disagree with him is that the tragedy is in fact the deaths of the astronauts, not the tax dollars.
For the record, I said it "would" be callous of me to consider the tax money wasted as tragic, not that I did.Quote:
Originally posted by Rich
Apok sums up what I believe perfectly. The symbolism really has been lost on this most recent of generations, apparently. The only thing I disagree with him is that the tragedy is in fact the deaths of the astronauts, not the tax dollars.
Does anyone else remember being really intently interested in NASA in the 80s? I was born in 1980, and until I was about 10 or 11 I thought NASA was about the coolest thing in the world, that's the sort of stuff I would think about when reciting the Pledge of Allegiance, all that.
I wanted to be an Astronaut for a long time, I used to read absolutely everything I could about space travel, for a short period Space Camp was my favorite movie (I wasn't that crazy), so on.
And the space ice cream... :(Quote:
Originally posted by Rich
The only thing I disagree with him is that the tragedy is in fact the deaths of the astronauts, not the tax dollars.
If it's been lost on this current generation then thats a shame. This is a tragedy in more than one way. For one, 7 brave people, some of America and Isreal's best, are dead. Their loss may not be felt immediately, but it may someday. If one person can make a difference, what will the loss of these 7 fine people cause us to miss? Secondly, the American Space Program is looked at as being a symbol of hope for much of the world. Science can be used for more than just military things. The international space station is more proof that co-operation among nations is an option. For people who grew up during the cold war that is a mind blowing thing. Space IS our future, if we survive the present. So when something like the explosion of Challenger happens, or today when Columbia was lost, it is a blow to the idea that the world can get out of life alive. Say what you will about Star Trek, but that show was born out of the fear that we wouldn't make it out of the 60's, never mind the cold war. The idea that we could live another day if we worked together is a precious thing. Anytime something happenes to cause that idea to be hurt, it is a tragedy.
I don't see those as exploiting this incident, except perhaps the last one. Look at the dates on the auctions, I think they were put up before this even happened.Quote:
I saw it over my apt. It was horrible.
Dork.Quote:
Originally posted by ShineAqua
Why couldn't this happen to an 'Nsync kid.
Smart buisnessmen. Too bad they have fake bidders fucking things up.
Hmm... is anybody else wondering now about the worth of NASA?
Not that they don't do their job, but is it worth risking the lives of these people to see how ants work in space. Sure, they know the risks, but just look at this!
I mean, damn, this is terrible...
This was very sad, and I sincerely hope it wasn't some terrorist act. But it seems like they'd had some minor problems with the shuttle before, so perhaps it really was just an unfortunate accident :(
I'll say a prayer for the deceased tonight.
I didn't realize the news this morning until I reached work at 9am... I was watching cartoons at home before then. This has all been pretty awful stuff to watch/hear/read about.
...oh my god...
I have nothing else to say.
R.I.P.
Ants in space is BS, BTW. The experiments consited mostly of work on Osteoperosis and long-term space-flight medical issues (specifically, how to convert urine to drinking water).Quote:
Originally posted by ChaoofNee
Hmm... is anybody else wondering now about the worth of NASA?
Not that they don't do their job, but is it worth risking the lives of these people to see how ants work in space. Sure, they know the risks, but just look at this!
I mean, damn, this is terrible...
I doubt the astronauts would like thier deaths be the thing that makes people doubt in the program that they were a part of, KNOWING full well that thier lives were always at risk. If I had the chance, now and before, I would jump at it.
ºTracer
NASA is completely worth it... or at least the goals of NASA's studies are. Even ant experiments are part of the cumulitive goal of getting humanity out among the stars... not just the chosen few, but the whole lot...Quote:
Originally posted by ChaoofNee
Hmm... is anybody else wondering now about the worth of NASA?
Not that they don't do their job, but is it worth risking the lives of these people to see how ants work in space.
I hope that, if anything, NASA gets MORE funding out of this incident, hopefully to the end of mostly unmanned shuttle flights for experimentation, and more manpower for developing the International Space Station further...
This is where I want my taxes to go. Not the Department Of Fatherland Security...
I would like to see alternitive propulsions looked into more, while JPL gets more funding. While I live not far from and have a fondness for the Maned Space Flight Center, I think JPL has been given the financial shaft ever after the triumph of Voyager which too me, is NASA's finest moment.
We need more space funding. If we don't start using outer space and just sit here on this planet, we're dead. "Dead" isn't a euphemism, it's what will happen to us as a species in a literal sense.
Am I the only one appalled at the lack of brain shown in the people wondering about this being an act of terrorism? When did the ravings of the brain-dead and insane start getting so much attention, anyway?
James
One of the first things I saw today on ABC News was Peter Jennings interview someone who said that there was basically no way in hell this could be an act of terrorism. How anyone could think it was is beyond me.
Did anyone else see the Baba Booey call to Ted Koppel?
I'm not appalled at it, just suprised. I would think that it is pretty ignorant to belive such. The odds are really always against space flight. Just because NASA has always done a good job at it doesn't make the amount of energy needed to reach orbit any less or the risk in any was depreciated.Quote:
Originally posted by James
Am I the only one appalled at the lack of brain shown in the people wondering about this being an act of terrorism? When did the ravings of the brain-dead and insane start getting so much attention, anyway?
James
We need more funding for NASA and manned space flight, but we also need much more funding and attention to JPL. When something goes wrong with the probes they send out, little notice is given to them because no lives are at risk from it. There's a good amount of reforms needed, and now more than ever. I don't think it would be called wise to switch to a new manned shuttle just because we have run out of our current ones. Atlantis, Discovery and Endevor aren't getting any younger or safer or more cost effective... just less in every case.
Now there are 3 more astronauts in the unstable space-station MIR who may have to rely on Soyuz which is no better than sending Atlantis up tomarrow for them. I hate when these things have to happen to gat our attention. Now, what else have we overlooked? What's going to wake us all up next?
ºTracer
This is just beyond belief. I was huge on space travel from the time I was a tiny kid (I was born in 1980 as well), and ever since then the space shuttles (most notably the first, Columbia) have been for me the symbol of all of NASA and everything the US strives for with space travel. It's almost too much to think that Columbia was lost. I feel the same way today as I did on September 11, 2001...this kind of thing just isn't supposed to happen.
RIP, Columbia crew.
I ahte to say so, but I felt much more gravity behind Challanger, but this is no more or less terrible, and this one I actually saw in the sky.
This is definitely an incredible tragedy, I'm not saying anything otherwise.
I still think funding for NASA is bullshit for the most part. If we can't do a good job with our own planet, let alone country, WTF are we doing trying to send people into space? And no, we're not going to be sending the masses of the U.S. out into space anything close to any time soon, or in the distant future.
The science conducted there is incredibly important. You don't see it, so you don't appreciate it :/
Lots of people don't need to go into space. That's entirely besides the point.
oh ok man.
Seriously though, what is some of the incredibly important work that NASA is responsible for? Who is it helping?
Any advancement in science is important because, no matter how small it may seem now, it might just become the greatest thing since sliced bread.
No.Quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy
Any advancement in science is important because, no matter how small it may seem now, it might just become the greatest thing since sliced bread.
hahahaha
I probably should explain myself a little bit more. Sure, you are right Jeremy, but is all the money we spend on NASA (instead of public schools, healthcare, transportation etc.) worth it?
Most all improvements in the last 40 years in rocketry, telemitry and material science can be credited entirely to the space program. JPL pioneered the worlds smallest nuclear battery which provides Voyager 2 with energy to this day as it still travels past Pluto into the heliopause.
Meteorology has been drastically improved increaseing responce and reaction time to severe weather. Phamaceuticals have long been advance by testing in low gravity. That is the most frequent use of all. Medical sciences are dependant on research in space. It affects most everyone.
Well, eventually, the Human Race is going to have to colonize space and branch out if it's to surivive, due to simple population-resource limits.
That's a ways off, but it's worth it to do this now.
I think, MVS, that such a senerio is too far down the road, it's like the ancient Romans worrying about the crime rate in 1980's Detroit.
I think research in space is valuable to nearly every feild. ESPECIALLY for engineering which will continue to be important to this day. I think CHEAPER to use new shuttles (by being more reuseable) are in order and waiting 15 year the way the government wants is too long to throw billions of dollars away on the current line of shuttles. They were great, but 1970's engineering is not efficent.
ºTracer
If you look at the bid history you can see that no one had bid on those things until today, which I found to be quite suprising/sad.Quote:
Originally posted by Ichabod
Look at the dates on the auctions, I think they were put up before this even happened.
Also, Fark.com had posted a link of a sicko selling "Debris from the Space Shuttle" on eBay. It was quickly taken down.
I don't think it's that far off. Perhaps 500 years or less. The Earth is going to become uninabitable by then.
This is pretty much how I feel as well. The loss of human life is always a tragic event, but they knew the risks involved.Quote:
Perhaps the symbolism is becoming increasingly lost on my generation, but, it didn't strike me as particularly tragic. There are plenty of people serving the country in various capacities all the time that get killed, and no one even cares. Fact is, the people involved knew that there was risk involved, that's just the way things go sometimes.
What exactly was the purpose of their mission anyway?
I think NASA needs to accomplish something major to justify their existence. Sure, they landed on the moon, but now what? Why not create colonies there, or at least build a space station that isn't held together with duct tape and string like the Russians, but more importantly, they need to develop an alternative form of propulsion.
Who here thinks man will walk on Mars within our life time?
While I understand the urgency of the depletion of the earth's natural resources... I have not heard many reasons to believe inhabitation would occur so soon.Quote:
Originally posted by mattvanstone
I don't think it's that far off. Perhaps 500 years or less. The Earth is going to become uninabitable by then.
Landing on the moon was simply romantic in its goal. There have been numerous more ground breaking moves my NASA than just landing on the Moon.Quote:
Originally posted by Regus
This is pretty much how I feel as well. The loss of human life is always a tragic event, but they knew the risks involved.
What exactly was the purpose of their mission anyway?
I think NASA needs to accomplish something major to justify their existence. Sure, they landed on the moon, but now what? Why not create colonies there, or at least build a space station that isn't held together with duct tape and string like the Russians, but more importantly, they need to develop an alternative form of propulsion.
Who here thinks man will walk on Mars within our life time?
Hubble and Voyager come to mind.
It could though. BUT!Quote:
Originally posted by station82o
While I understand the urgency of the depletion of the earth's natural resources... I have not heard many reasons to believe inhabitation would occur so soon.
Research in science and engineering can help prevent that from happening before it does.
By 2050, I think we'll know (if we're alive) where humanity is heading. By then, if all oil is gone (oil is important for more than just petro-chemical fuel) then I think it's safe to say that civilization will wilt and come to a halt.
ºTracer
I dont think Earth will become inhabitable, but the human population of the world is spiraling out of control. There will be MAJOR problems in 15 or 20 years if the human population's growth rate does not slow down. We are talking mass disease famine etc. all of that. Scientific fact eh.
And yes we need a replacement for fossil fuels. If we can come up with a clean replacement for it, the world will benefit a great, great deal. Being in California now, I can see the mass of cars just smogging up the entire world. Its horrible. And no Dean Kamen, the fucking Segway is not going to do the trick.
Remember, we only get one Earth, so take care of it!
Precisely. And there's only so far those fuels take space exploration.Quote:
Originally posted by diffusionx
I dont think Earth will become inhabitable, but the human population of the world is spiraling out of control. There will be MAJOR problems in 15 or 20 years if the human population's growth rate does not slow down. We are talking mass disease famine etc. all of that. Scientific fact eh.
And yes we need a replacement for fossil fuels. If we can come up with a clean replacement for it, the world will benefit a great, great deal. Being in California now, I can see the mass of cars just smogging up the entire world. Its horrible. And no Dean Kamen, the fucking Segway is not going to do the trick.
Remember, we only get one Earth, so take care of it!
To talk about what Regus had said for a bit.
People die serveing thier country all the time and it's awful that it happens, what makes this diffrent from me is not only (like the millitary) did these men and women aknowledge the dangers and their lives vunerabilites but they did so not with the intention on protecting some vista somewhere, or gathering to usurp a volitile regime. They put thier lives on the line for science, pure and arbitrary (seemingly) and practical and applicable. How can man land on mars with knowing more about engineering and the dynamics between objects in evronments totally unlike that on Earth? Current propulsion CANNOT take men to Mars. It can take probes, and it'll take a year to do just that. Can we carry enough water for these astronauts who would go? What about food, weight is a huge problem when you're talking about space travel. We don't have the technology, we don't have the know how. We can only learn that in space. And for what gain? I think every man and woman would benefit beyond words to see the Earth in thier eyes, whole and without borders. To see the thin fragile blue line that divides the barren lifelessness of space from the plenty and comfort of Earth. Maybe then, we wouldn't take our atmosphere for granted. If everyone could see Earth rise as a tiny blue star near the horizon on Mars maybe then people would forget and signifigense that they thought the West Bank or the Korean DMZ had. That might be a stretch, but nonetheless - Space is our future. Maybe not our future home, but we are bound to it.
Back to what Diffusion said: There are huge problems still. Population is one, and the over use of fossil fuels. I know as well as you Diff. Myself, living in the city with the nations worst air quality, I see it every day. The heat gets worse every year. Soon if not already, the icecaps will be getting smaller and smaller. Solutions need to be found. As much as space is our future, we have no future without Earth. Science is the tool we need most and we need it now. I don't belive god is going to save the rightous, but I belive that we can save ourselves with the pursuit of the truth in science.
ºTracer
Let me put my own spin on that:Quote:
Originally posted by Tracer
Science is the tool we need most and we need it now. I don't belive god is going to save the rightous, but I belive that we can save ourselves with the pursuit of the truth in science.
ºTracer
We need to spend less time and resources on religion, and more on science. Religion is the cause of half of the worlds problems, and Science can cure the other half of the problems.
On a slightly different topic, which is more relevant today: 2001 or Dr. Strangelove?
I agree, though it's probably just personal reasons. I remember my 1st grade teacher claiming to be a good friend of the teacher on board, and we were sitting in class, watching, when it happened.Quote:
Originally posted by Tracer
I ahte to say so, but I felt much more gravity behind Challanger, but this is no more or less terrible, and this one I actually saw in the sky.
This... I just found out about right now. I've been gone all day, and hadn't heard a thing about this. It's sad, a definite tragedy. I hope NASA's funding doesn't get cut because of it, yet I can't seem to summon the save feelings that I felt then, as a six/seven year old.
Heard about this yesterday. Haven't seen any footage, but the first thought that popped in my head was "Oh great, Chalenger 2. :("
Then almost immediately afterwards "I wonder if our 'president' will be stupid enough to try to spin this disaster as a terrorist action in his case against Saddam?" *Sigh* A cynical mind has I.
But at any rate I feel pretty much the same way about this as I do when I hear about major earthqauakes. Yeah it's messed up, but what are you going to do? Callous as it may sound, it's events like this that help remind humankind that we are not the masters of our world. We can't control everything and we are not omnipotent.
Oh and to all the soothsayers of the Earth's imminent demise. The Earth and all of mankind is already on a one way collision course to a firey doom anyways. Read your Bible.
i dont have a bible.
I can’t say that the event itself has effected me much emotionally. Don’t get me wrong, this is sad due to the loss of human life. But I’m no sadder about this than I would be if I heard there was a car wreck in my town. It being the shuttle and not some other form of transportation doesn’t effect the way I feel about this.
What does bother me however, is the apathy that is being shown towards NASA and the concept of space travel. NASA is the only part of our government I can honestly say that I love. It is our nations only pure endeavor. It was started as another way to protect the U.S. and continues today with a new and even more morally just goal, exploration. Be it the exploration of knowledge in general or what lies far out beyond our own world.
What bothers me even more than that, is the fact that if people can show such apathy to NASA that it would seem that the dreams of our society are dead. I have to think back to something my dad told me about his childhood. How he said that he would look up at the stars in amazement at the idea that there was something up in space looking down at him, something made by man. He was talking about sputnik. I fear that we have nothing like that now. We were told stories of flying cars, and huge robots. What we got was the worlds largest free porn reference. It would seem that as a race we are all just waiting to die, and trying to be stimulated as many times as we can before we die. All that seems to matter is how long we live, and how many people we can get to live, and not the quality of that life, and/or those lives. The way people have commented about NASA and its goals seem to only confirm this. And if you don’t agree ask yourself “what are my dreams, and what am I working towards” then actually look at what you are doing. Then ask yourself the same question about the people around you, then the nation, and then the world.
The dreams have died, and along with them the only pure parts of our humanity
Had no clue about any of this. There was something on TV when a roomie turned it on earlier this afternoon, but I thought it had something to do with some shuttle from years ago. No idea we had one up there recently.Good thing it is slowing down and has been for quite some time. It'll eventually level off, though I can't remember what the predicted time is.Quote:
Originally posted by diffusionx
There will be MAJOR problems in 15 or 20 years if the human population's growth rate does not slow down.