Atomiswave: Sammy's attempt at Neo Geo?

I've become fascinated by Sammy's new arcade hardware, the Atomiswave. Essentially, it's a attempt at affordable and easily changable hardware/software. Games are carts (I imagine ROM drives would be hard to keep up) and easily plug into the compact board. Joysticks, guns, trackballs, and driving wheels change in and out of the machine with ease as well. Here's Sammy USA's product poster for the unit:

http://www.americanvending.com/html/...atomiswave.htm

The intial game titles:

Dolphin Blue- 2D action shooter (pic is a scan of Pacrappa's)

http://www.boomspeed.com/neoalpha0/dolphin.jpg

Maxmium Speed- car racing
Permier Eleven- soccer
Sports Shooting USA- target shooting (I imagine this will be in ever Wal-Mart)

Photos of these games....

http://www.zdnet.co.jp/gamespot/gsne...19/news15.html

Future titles:

Guilty Gear X 1.5
unnamed shooter (Viewpoint 2 would be nice)
4 other titles in dev

Honestly, I'm wondering if Sammy is trying to compete with Neo Geo. They have the fighter in Guilty Gear and Dolphin Blue to contend with Metal Slug. I've run a across a few mentions of a possible home console version of the Atomiswave, though I assume it to be speculation.

Thoughts?

*-neo

IMO this system is much better than the Neo. It has 3D graphics capabilities, and does 2D exceptionally well. The only thing the MVS has going for it now is the cheap games and great market penetration. A market which is on it's last breath. The real money is in home games, unfortunately.

Since a Guilty Gear is slated (but why 1.5? Isn't 2 out?), I assume it's high res? A high res, seemingly 2D oriented, Neo-Geolike arcade system? What's not to like? Not that I'll ever see one.

That Dolphin pic looks promising too.

sounds pretty cool

im all for it they get home ports :)

i like sammy

if they keep the 2D fighter genre alive im all for supporting their other ventures

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Originally posted by remotec
Since a Guilty Gear is slated (but why 1.5? Isn't 2 out?),

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It's actually GG X2 from Playstation 2 minus the home modes and retaining the new characters. *-neo

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Originally posted by seen
IMO this system is much better than the Neo. It has 3D graphics capabilities, and does 2D exceptionally well. The only thing the MVS has going for it now is the cheap games and great market penetration. A market which is on it's last breath. The real money is in home games, unfortunately.

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The Neo Geo has been around for over a decade. Its not just your opinion that this system is better than the Neo-Geo, its plain fact. The Neo was a wonderful system but it needs to be put out to pasture. Anything which can hopefully speed up this process is welcome to me.

If the Atomiswave had the ability to throw all hardcore Neo fans/buyers into the ocean, I would buy it posthaste.

The Neo will never die.

:D

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Originally posted by Divine Crushing Fist
The Neo will never die.

:D

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It better. It killed SNK once, let's not try for twice. I think it's great it lasted as long as it did, but it could onlt be better with modern hardware.

The Neo is a beaut of a system and I doubt any other one piece of hardware will have the run it did. unfortunately, Playmore is being held back. we see a ton of sequels, 99% of which are fighters. If Playmore moves on to new hardware maybe we'll see new unique concepts that the current Neo market holds back. If Playmore releases anything other than a fighter/sequel at this point it's a great economic risk as far as cart sales, thus they trend the same path. I've heard great things of KOF 2002, I really think 2003 should start on another system.

*-neo

I'm usually against mergers, but I think Playmore and Sammy should look into hooking up. They both seem to have something the other would benefit from. Sammy's got the new hardware, Playmore has got some good franchises to put on said hardware, especially the upcoming SNK vs Capcom.

That new racing game looks awesome!

I look at this as a spiritual successor to the Neo, and the name is awesome. The games look awesome on it.

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Originally posted by Ammadeau
... especially the upcoming SNK vs Capcom.

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i wish this thing would get an official release date

or some news about what engine (im assuming KoF ofcourse but what year *L* )

or some pics

just something allready

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Originally posted by remotec
I assume it's high res? A high res, seemingly 2D oriented, Neo-Geolike arcade system?

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It's a Dreamcast on a JAMMA board:

http://www.system16.com/sega/hrdw_atomiswave.html

Even more Neo-Geo-like then, since there's a home equivelant.

Later.

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Originally posted by Leynos
It's a Dreamcast on a JAMMA board:

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In my crystal ball I see...Sammy and Playmore team up on Atomiswave. All games get ported to DC. DC/Atomiswave becomes the new Neo-Geo.

It's a good thing this isn't Shenmue 2, or you all would have just been charged $5.

"This is just the start", according to the Sammy poster. Do they know what this means, or did they just pick an English phrase that sounded good?

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Originally posted by Leynos
It's a Dreamcast on a JAMMA board:

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I totally forgot about that. In that case its probably a good idea for them to port Dolphin Blue to the DC.:) Yep, I see no way around it if they want to rescue themselves from eternal damnation.

anybody here know what cost of the unit/games are going to be?

Wow, those games all look really nice. I wish nothing but good things for Atomiswave! :)


Oh yeh, and I want to play Dolphin Blue ASAP. ;)

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Originally posted by Videodrone
anybody here know what cost of the unit/games are going to be?

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Was curious myself. Be interesting to see if the arcade carts are as much as a Neo cart. And I wonder if the extra controllers are already included or optional?

As for DC:

Pros:

-easy to port to

-next gen hardware has made DC hardware outdated. So if Sammy intends to support Atomiswave for a while, it might be better to attract DC fans instead of releasing sub-par (graphically) games on another system.

-Carts are expensive so a home based cart system may be less econonmical than a port.

Cons:

-DC units and controllers haven't been made for a few years
-Sammy may want to release their own home console and have complete control over content.

-Expansion hardware or chips to Atomiswave would make a DC port moot.

*-neo

Action games on DC these days can easily sell 20K, cost little to port over from Atmomiswave and licensing costs are minimal. Quite simply Dreamcast is still viable for arcade ports of this nature.

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Originally posted by Sidez
Action games on DC these days can easily sell 20K, cost little to port over from Atmomiswave and licensing costs are minimal. Quite simply Dreamcast is still viable for arcade ports of this nature.

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Well said. I would love to see the DC stay alive for a couple more years with 2D arcade ports.

I wonder if Sammy could acquire the rights to manufacture their own new Dreamcasts? Or partner with someone else to do it... They could redesign it or rebrand it - but it could basically be a 100% compatible new version of Dreamcast? (ie. games work on new or old systems). Production costs on the hardware would presumably be quite low... they could also make a redesign based on that old much-talked-about Dreamcast-On-A-Chip technology possible...

I dunno.. that's just a lot of speculation. I am not sure if any of it makes sense. But I would absolutely love to see these games ported to Dreamcast. I think the "pros" that neo mentioned make sense.



ps. Here are some more pics of Dolphin Blue:
» http://the-magicbox.com/game100302c.htm

Majesco did it with the Gamegear and Genesis, so why not? I'm sure if Sammy makes good offer Sega'd oblige.

That would be too cool for words.


edit: wow, Dolphin Blue has excellent graphics. 2D really can push forward.

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Originally posted by neoalphazero
The Neo is a beaut of a system and I doubt any other one piece of hardware will have the run it did. unfortunately, Playmore is being held back. we see a ton of sequels, 99% of which are fighters. If Playmore moves on to new hardware maybe we'll see new unique concepts that the current Neo market holds back. If Playmore releases anything other than a fighter/sequel at this point it's a great economic risk as far as cart sales, thus they trend the same path. I've heard great things of KOF 2002, I really think 2003 should start on another system.

*-neo

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Playmore should try going into it. Since they have experience with programming on Dreamcast, it wouldn't be too much of a jump for them to get started on Atomiswave.

I hope Sega does not allow Sammy to make their own home console cart version, which would be prohibitively expensive (and pointless, since it would be tougher to sell an Atomiswave cart console against the likes of PS2- and selling $50 DC home versions would be easier than selling $400 carts). They could pull a Majesco with the Dreamcast and use that as a home system- selling it for a lower price point, of course.

Viewpoint 2 on Atomiswave is one idea that has some good potential.

Everybody.

Stop getting my hopes up.

Now.

Be wary of speculation. Yes, it is possible for Sammy to start a niche market like the Neo, but they haven't done it yet. Don't assume Playmore is going to switch over unless they've already said something about this.

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Originally posted by Tain
Everybody.

Stop getting my hopes up.

Now.

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I just want some cold hard Dolphin Blue info, dangnabbit.

I'm supposed to stop hoping that SNK / Playmore will move on to new hardware eventually? It's like praying a drug addicted friend will get off the junk. No matter how unlikely, you got to keep hope alive.

Right on Ammadeau.. keep the hope alive. It's probably very pointless but here's to hoping. You never know with the strange and unpredictable things that happen in this hobby.

:)

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Originally posted by neoalphazero
Thoughts?

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Yeah, now having an arcade unit in the house is about to become a more difficult decission.

Anyone got a price on this thing?

this thread is depressing, SNK would be better off if they just developed for the current platforms. (they can still do 2D you know)

Playmore still puts arcade first and everything else second. Maybe this is a bad idea, but maybe if Capcom was also doing this we'd actually see a new 2D fighter from them some time this century.

Playmore should move to CHIHIRO. IMO. :p

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Originally posted by Tain
Everybody.

Stop getting my hopes up.

Now.

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Yes, definitely. Remember folks, Sammy passed on GG XX for DC despite the seemingly high fighter fanbase on the console.

And Leynos makes sense, more powerful hardware like the Xbox would be the way to go for Playmore. Which is why I find Atomiswave a bit odd. With next gen systems slated in the next two years why focus on a DC based arcade machine? I have no problem with DC graphics and Sammy's intial shots look like the system is running at full capcity but it makes the move to home consoles a bit awkward.

As for price, I might email Sammy USA just to see. *-neo

There will never be another system like the Neo Geo... (whether you think that's a good or bad thing, is irrelevant :p

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Originally posted by neoalphazero

And Leynos makes sense, more powerful hardware like the Xbox would be the way to go for Playmore. Which is why I find Atomiswave a bit odd. With next gen systems slated in the next two years why focus on a DC based arcade machine? I have no problem with DC graphics and Sammy's intial shots look like the system is running at full capcity but it makes the move to home consoles a bit awkward.

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What I'm wondering is why did they develop a new cartridge-based thing that's so closely-related to an already prevalent system like Naomi, which also has a cartridge-based form and an inexpensive GD-based form? Why do Sammy themselves need to make their own system? What's their goal? Why not just stick with Naomi? It's not bullshit because GGX 1.5 is ready for release. What's the logic of creating this new system? They must have plans for it beyond Guilty Gear, mustn't they?

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Originally posted by Ammadeau
Playmore still puts arcade first and everything else second. Maybe this is a bad idea, but maybe if Capcom was also doing this we'd actually see a new 2D fighter from them some time this century.

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I read sometime last year that there are 60 000 Neo Geo arcade units out there worldwide. The people who lease/own those units are a captive audience, so to speak, which is why SNK/Playmore continues to market to them. It's the closest thing they have to a guaranteed income, especially when their highest profile home cart runs are like 500 copies.

You'd think they could leverage their properties into a bank loan to let them retool and be able to compete on current home consoles, but their shakey past may be preventing them form doing so. I'm going to guess they've missed a payment or two.

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Originally posted by StriderKyo
You'd think they could leverage their properties into a bank loan to let them retool and be able to compete on current home consoles, but their shakey past may be preventing them form doing so. I'm going to guess they've missed a payment or two.

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Playmore is the biggest credit risk in the videogame industry. Think about it. Would you give a loan to a company which basically recreated themselves in order to ditch a sizable debt? I know there's more to it than that, but still... I'd sooner trust a hobo with the money. That's why I think they need to merge with a pre-existing company if they actually want to improve.

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Originally posted by mikey
What I'm wondering is why did they develop a new cartridge-based thing that's so closely-related to an already prevalent system like Naomi, which also has a cartridge-based form and an inexpensive GD-based form? Why do Sammy themselves need to make their own system? What's their goal? Why not just stick with Naomi? It's not bullshit because GGX 1.5 is ready for release. What's the logic of creating this new system? They must have plans for it beyond Guilty Gear, mustn't they?

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Naomi GD-Roms are expensive to maintain from what I've gathered in a few magazines. Why not the normal Naomi cart system? My only guess is Atomiswave is a product of shrinking the Naomi (or DC) frame work into a more affordable board. Nonetheless, unless Sammy plans to use this board for several years like Taito does it's still alot of effort for a arcade system. *-neo

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Originally posted by Ammadeau
Playmore is the biggest credit risk in the videogame industry. Think about it. Would you give a loan to a company which basically recreated themselves in order to ditch a sizable debt? I know there's more to it than that, but still... I'd sooner trust a hobo with the money. That's why I think they need to merge with a pre-existing company if they actually want to improve.

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Yeah, but I would have thought the Fatal Fury.King of Fighters characters would be a property that's worth something. Terry, Mai and Iori are some of the most recognizable characters in gaming. At the worst, I'd have thought a bank would take a lien against them or something...heh, maybe they did.

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Originally posted by StriderKyo
Yeah, but I would have thought the Fatal Fury.King of Fighters characters would be a property that's worth something. Terry, Mai and Iori are some of the most recognizable characters in gaming. At the worst, I'd have thought a bank would take a lien against them or something...heh, maybe they did.

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To people like us, they are easily recognizable, however to most others they aren't. Most fighting fanatics were brought up on MK and later SF, most of them have never heard of KOF, Samurai Showdown, and to a lesser extent Fatal Fury. Infact the first time most of them ever heard of SNK was in Capcom Vs. SNK.

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Originally posted by StriderKyo It's the closest thing they have to a guaranteed income, especially when their highest profile home cart runs are like 500 copies.

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Why would you say 500?

www.gamefront.de

At this year's AOU show Sammy announced two new Atomiswave games. They are:

Demolishfist (action)
Take Sushi (puzzle)

All Atomiswave games are listed as 2003 releases with the exception of Guilty Gear X 1.5 which is TBD. *-neo

Must be trouble afoot.

Sammy has delayed the launch of Atomiswave again, from May 2003 to "sometime in the first half of the fiscal year". *-neo

I'm all for the Atomiswave. The games are looking super sweet and I'd buy one if it weren't for the fact I'm anticipating it being expensive. If it really is a Naomi on steroids...Naomi's are expensive...still. Like $400-$500 on the low end and upwards of a thousand with the right game.

Atomiswave is probably going to come into the fray with at least a $1000 price tag. I'll be amazed if it's less than say...$600.

But out of those 6 games, I'm pretty interested in at least 3 of them (GGX, Dolphin Blue and Sushi Bar). If it has a resonable price tag, I'm gonna be so happy and it'll be time to snag another cab.

As far as replacing the Neo•Geo. I gotta ask; What the hell are you people talking about?

Why would Sammy WANT to replace the Neo? The Neo's market is a niche of gamers willing to shell out for a specific set of games. And always have been.

It's not like there are Neo•Geo arcades all over the world. As if Neo•Geo is the most populated cab worldwide. There's usually like one cab in many arcades, if even one, and they use it to play the newest release and proven money makers like Metal Slug X. I've heard that Latin America has a lot of them, but I don't know first hand or from any reliable source.

But my point is Sammy would probably want better market penetration than that. They'd want thier hardware showcased in the newest and flashiest games up front and center in the arcade world.

The Neo isn't about that. It's new games come and go with relativly little fanfare from casual gamers, with a few mentions from mainstream media, and then they'll eventually make thier way to a port for a home console.

But the thing is, it still makes money for arcade vendors. And in all likelyhood, it'll probably continue to do so for many years.

So long as people want to play the games and so long as the arcade vendors are making money off of them, they'll always be Neo•Geo.

The fact that it's popularity and selling points are not based on pure technology is now why it has such longevity.

There were Neos in arcades when they brought in the ST-Vs with Virtual Fighter 2, and they were in the arcade when they moved the ST-Vs out. The 3D on it now looks outdated and cheap.

But on the Neo get what you expect graphically and the games are good.

Trying to replace it is really a bad plan. The only reason it's cost effective is the hardware is dirt cheap (and if you think about it...they don't even have to manufacture it anymore to 'support' it) and there's a reliable and steady stream of quarters going into it so long as you have one or two specific games in it. And you get a nice spike of play when a new release comes out...which you then have no problem offloading into the secondary market.

The Neo is irreplacable. The only thing that will take it out of the arcades is if people stop playing. And if they keep making games, people won't. Vicious circle.

Instead, I'm hoping that Sammy is trying to really push thier High Res 2D into arcades. Which I'm ALL for, the games are gorgeous. If they play half as good as they look then I think you may be looking at a well planned hardware with a good future.

Must play Dolphin Blue NOW! I'm all for this thing.

And BTW, the Neo Geo can live forever as far as I'm concerned. I love those games. :)

Atomiswave delays may be due to the way Sega is treating Sammy in their merger efforts. Sammy is probably feeling a bit alienated since Sega's tried to bring in Namco. Since they probably have to pay royalties on the hardware, I suspect they may be looking into alternatives even though they have already put a large amount of money into developing the system and software.

Actually, it either just got a LOT more intriguing or a LOT more lame:

http://www.americanvending.com/html/...atomiswave.jpg

Okay "what are we looking at, a picture, yay cool".

But check it... The trackball, light gun and steering wheel control set ups are thier own module deals.

Now, does this mean that you HAVE to have that light gun module to play the light gun games? (meaning, you can't put it into another JAMMA cabinet and hook up thiers or another light gun hardware, that you have to use that specific Atomiswave cab with the module)

Or is it just a cool and easy way for operators to swap out the controls...but you can still put the hardware in any cab you want.

If it's the later then, I'd probably look into getting one of those Atomiswave cabs for my basement, it'd be super sweet to just swap control pannels if I wanna play Capcom Bowling or something.

But if it's the former, and you need one of these cabs to play a light gun, driving or trackball game. It may not fly too well.

I remain optimistic.

Dam I want to get one of these so bad.....Guilty Gear arcade *drools* That game kicks ass on the dreamcast.

Ah what am I saying I cant even afford a gamecube or ps2 let alone a arcade cab. :(

that ad looks like an old NES ad.

nonetheless those games look really nice, here's hoping it's decently priced.

I hope you can make this pic out.....

P.S. I have a Dolphin Blue video.....

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Originally posted by Lhadatt
Atomiswave delays may be due to the way Sega is treating Sammy in their merger efforts. Sammy is probably feeling a bit alienated since Sega's tried to bring in Namco. Since they probably have to pay royalties on the hardware, I suspect they may be looking into alternatives even though they have already put a large amount of money into developing the system and software.

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Maybe? I found out a few months ago how Atomiswave came to be. Sega had 2.5 million Dreamcast chipsets sitting around at the time of the console's death, they liquidated them to Sammy and thus Atomiswave. Would they pay royalities on liquidated parts? *-neo

Very interesting. They probably would not owe Sega any money for the hardware then. Although, Sammy would need development tools and design docs, which they would still have to go to Sega for.

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Originally posted by Leynos
Playmore should move to CHIHIRO. IMO. :p

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Good idea... if you want them to go out of business... again. :bang:

Sammy is ticked at Sega it turns out....

A rough translation from Gamefront today:

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Sammy: ' Sega has us betrayed '/Namco sends fusion documents to Sega

01.05.03 - Still Sega did not communicate whether one will be
received with Sammy or Namco a fusion. How the newspaper Asahi Shimbun
writes, Sammy president Hajime Satomi reacted annoyed to the offer of
Namco. For it the fusion with Sega was thing already decided, which
was already sealed by hand impact in February.

' Sega betrayed and exposed us. It is no matter to us whether from the
Deal still which becomes or ', a prominent Sammy employee does not say
opposite the newspaper.

Namco communicates meanwhile on the official homepage that one sent
the documents necessary for a fusion today at Sega. The documents must
be present up to 09.05.03 Sega, which communicate then their fusion
partner. ' we must do something or to Sega go down ', say a Namco
representative. ' Namco is Segas of best partners, because we are in
the same industry.'

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I doubt they will kill Atomiswave over this but nonetheless the whole Sammy/Sega thing just turned sour. *-neo

So, at this point in time how does one go about playing Dolphin Blue!?

Buy a ticket to Japan and hunt for arcades that have it.

Or contact Sammy directly and shell out for an Atomiswave setup -- which will probably run $1500 or more.