sony's antiwar ad

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'Flog PS2s, not war,' says Sony Mugwum [10-Feb-2003]

With PlayStation 2 still firmly outselling both of its (cheaper) rivals, it's been confirmed to us unofficially that the console is not about to undergo a price cut. Sorry about that. However, it has become apparent that Sony is planning a few little schemes to encourage sales.

Firstly, as reported by C&VG on Friday, the PS2 will soon be bundled "with several of our first-party games" according to a spokesperson. With the Ratchet & Clank bundle already very popular in Japan, Sony may attempt that here, or aim for a more adult market with The Getaway and other recent hits.

Speaking of the adult market, we came across a rather curious new marketing campaign by the black brick's increasingly hippy-esque handlers last week. It's a television advert (download - 1.87MB) destined for screens somewhere in the world, which shows PS2 characters including our old pals Hammond and Vercetti throwing down their guns before the screen fades to "No war, please" with a peace symbol.

When asked if this was about the console war or events in Iraq, a Sony spokesperson seemed confused.

"There's a console war?"

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is this for real?

Very odd commercial indeed. It seems like an anti-war statement to me.

wow sony did something good for a change..

Give 'em a few weeks, once the war starts they'll go back to making missile guidence systems and so such.

I applaud Sony on this move.

Lame.

I'm not opposed to the company's politics, but they shouldn't be using their position as console manufacturer of choice to push their political agenda on children who play their games.

I hope there is a backlash.

That is just plain bizarre.

I have a hard time believing they really did it out of genuine anti-war sentiment, but if they did, more power to them.

Wow, that's nuts. I also have a hard time believing they did that for any legitimately passionate reason, and I also hope there is a backlash just for bringing politics into videogames.

It could easily be a fake. But if it's not, good for them.

So then what is SOCOM?

I'm sure that if this ad turned out to be legit, and someone pointed that out to them, they'd just say that it's a tactical combat simulator.

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Originally posted by Master
Lame.

I'm not opposed to the company's politics, but they shouldn't be using their position as console manufacturer of choice to push their political agenda on children who play their games.

I hope there is a backlash.

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I am 100% opposed to their politics but agree with everything else you said. No Japanese company has any business commenting on war considering that we have been their body guard for the last 60 years.

it's a swerve. sony is all about war. remember all that talk before launch about how the ps2 could set off missiles ? it's true. that anti-war ad is just trying to make you forget about the special added features like destroying 3rd world countries by entering the konami code.

I'm going to find whoever made that add and kick the crap out of them.

Have your opinions and keep them the hell out of my videogame adds.

You think all the 'pro-American' adds are annoying? Take that feeling, and that's how I am about this.

Ashen, that was classic stuff. Bravo. Anyways, I have no problem with Sony doing this. While I would prefer they shut the fuck up about it, I'm not going to get all hot and bothered about what a manufacturer's opinion is on war. I have my opinion on it, and don't need to be dictated to by a corporation that isn't even based in the country it's presenting an opinion about. While this does sound like it's contradicting my previous post, that post was made before I was reminded that Sony isn't even based in the U.S.

As far as I know, the ad is real. People at Gaming Age are claiming to have seen it, but who knows?

I don't care what a person's political views are; if they're radically different from mine, I generally a) don't talk politics with them or b) don't hang out with them, period. Any company that tries to play with politics risks bringing themselves to a personal level with people.

And thusly, should this ad prove to be real, consider my PS2 sold along with all of its games. I have no patience for this sort of tripe.


EDIT: It should be noted that the ad is believed to come from the European branch of Sony.

Yeah, but for about EVERY 50 antiwar messages I hear on the airwaves and in the papers, there's about 1 pro-war article. Which is then flogged 20 ways til Tuesday by the mainstream.

Haha...speaking of peace, those who swear by it don't practice it. There was a large anti-war rally a few months ago in San Fransisco. On the same day, a much smaller, pro war rally went on. The 'peace' loving group promptly went in, started screaming obsenities, and throwing bricks and stones.

Oh yeah, the pro-war demonstrator were mostly older people. When one asked a 'peace' protestor what the difference was between his right to speech and theirs and why they were infringing on his and why was that allowed, the 'peace' protestor promptly said:

"Because I hate you"

So his hate makes it okay...all in the name of peace, mind you. THAT is why I don't need to see another attempt at social zealotry, especially by a company that has no damn business trying to anyway. All it is is their attempt to ride the anti-war wave which is so hip and cool to adopt among their selling demograph. It's just as sick as those companies who went all 'pro-American' right after WTC just to cash in on the current feelings of the populace.

Maybe instead of putting money into such a sad advertisement, Sony could...I dunno...come up with one that has to do with a game directly? Or how about use the money toward the development of a game? Anything but riding this fad?

Most anti-war groups remind me of PETA: they say a lot, none of it adds up to anything that could be realistic in the least, and then prove their hypocrisy by not practicing what they preach.

What a bunch of war-mongers you people are. I see this as nothing more than one corporation, like so many before them, exercising its influence to rally people towards a cause. I for one am proud of them. As for them being based in Japan, war is war, no matter what country your from. It's a dirty, messy, and costly business, and to take a position against an unnecessary war is something we should all consider.

Amen, Hero is my ... hero.

This sort of thing irks me as much, if not more so, than the obnoxious "WE LOVE AMERICA!" ads that surfaced after 9/11.

Shine, they can accomplish their little goal through other means. If they're anti-war, they can put up a link to something related to it on their website, or put it in press releases.

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Originally posted by Yoshi
I am 100% opposed to their politics but agree with everything else you said. No Japanese company has any business commenting on war considering that we have been their body guard for the last 60 years.

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I agree with what you agreed with, plus your statement.

...and once again, Hero, you've made a good point. People should stop chucking their opinions out without thinking about them. If they sat back and pondered the reason behind their thinking, they might just find something they weren't expecting, like the hippy-professor's hatred.

According to Webster, a warmonger is "one who urges or attempts to stir up war".

Nobody in this thread has done anything of the sort, Shine.

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Originally posted by ShineAqua
What a bunch of war-mongers you people are.

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BWAHAHAHAHA....I love this one too. All a person has to do is toss out this insult, and it automatically invalidates any arguement made by the person it's attatched to. Now, no matter what I say, it's a 'war-mongerer' saying, so why pay attention?

hehehehehe...so much for 'open discussion' and 'exchange of ideas.' That only happens when I feel exactly the way YOU do. Then we can be as open and tolerant as we want.

PS2 - Now powered by Social Zealotry

It's a lovely advert and testament to Sony Europe's excellent marketing people. But then I attend anti-war demonstrations and meetings so I would say that :)

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Even better...how tolerant would you be to a Sony add that said 'WE LOVE JESUS!!'

I'm betting you'd last 1 second before going into a rant about how they have no place in shoving that message down people's throats (heck, I'd agree with you).

but hey, they're just trying to rally people to a cause...

Somehow, I doubt that line would work in my hypothetical situation.

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Originally posted by Jimmy Carter
And thusly, should this ad prove to be real, consider my PS2 sold along with all of its games. I have no patience for this sort of tripe.

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I'm gonna stay out of the political aspects of this debate, but whatever happened to enjoying a console for the games, not because of the 1st party's monopolistic practices, or in this case, political stance? Big mistake dude...

1st party monopolistic practices? Damn, that sure does remind me of Nintendo back in the 80s. I'd better boycott all their stuff now.

There's no freaking way they'd air such an ad in the states. Coming from a foreign company it'd seem anti-American, which seem to translate into OMFGALQAEDA these days. The networks would never touch it.

Still, I'd way rather see Sony advertising money going towards something that's intended to prevent the loss of life than another freaking ATV commercial.

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Originally posted by SearchManX
I'm gonna stay out of the political aspects of this debate, but whatever happened to enjoying a console for the games, not because of the 1st party's monopolistic practices, or in this case, political stance? Big mistake dude...

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Nah. As it is, there's nothing coming out for PS2 that interests me besides FF12. Everything I want is on GameCube. As it is, I have no software reason to own my PS2. And now, Sony has given me a personal reason to not own one.

Big mistake? Not in my mind. I'm taking my stand, thank you.

...Sony jumps on the Anti-American bandwagon.

...Whatever.

Who cares.

I don't even care if it is a cheap marketing gimmick or not...

*respect for Sony +100*

:)


Yikes I never thought I'd be saying that... and to think they're actually making some great games lately too! :o

Hero: your not doing much better throwing around phrases like "Social Zealotry." The short of it is that they have a belief and they felt like expressing it. More power to them.

So no war is a bad thing than?

Alright! Lets go kill some motherfuckers!

Like my sig says- We've run out of beer, time to shoot some guns!

The fact that I disagree with the sentimate expressed within the commercial advertisement notwithstanding, I do not agree with, nor condone corporations/celebrities using the power of popularity to sway public opinion.

If that is a real ad from Sony I'll be *very* surprised. As stated previously in this thread, joining one side of a two side debate alienates the entire opposing side. The last thing Sony needs to do is put it's Monopoly in Jeopardy by placing it's good name on the Wheel of Fortune right next to Bankrupt. (sorry :D ) Everyone thought Nintendo was invincible...

The ad itself is so-so and reeks of homebrew. If I were an ad agency hired by Sony I would hope to Hell I could do better than that crap.

Political views aside it's a bad move for Sony (if it is genuine).

#6

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Originally posted by Sidez
It's a lovely advert and testament to Sony Europe's excellent marketing people. But then I attend anti-war demonstrations and meetings so I would say that :)

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Cheers.. good for you. There was a huge one right outside my flat a while back. Any little way to promote peace is a great thing - which is why I applaud this advert regardless of if it's also supposed to be self-serving or not.

:)

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Originally posted by NotJigen
The fact that I disagree with the sentimate expressed within the commercial advertisement notwithstanding, I do not agree with, nor condone corporations/celebrities using the power of popularity to sway public opinion.

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It's no different than Michael J. Fox using his celebrity to promote research for M.S.

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Originally posted by NotJigen
The fact that I disagree with the sentimate expressed within the commercial advertisement notwithstanding, I do not agree with, nor condone corporations/celebrities using the power of popularity to sway public opinion.

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Maybe, but it' going to happen anyway. I'd rather see Michael Jordan or whoever saying something constructive than cynically flogging batteries and shoes.

Pretty sucky ad but good message.

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Originally posted by sggg
Cheers.. good for you. There was a huge one right outside my flat a while back. Any little way to promote peace is a great thing - which is why I applaud this advert regardless of if it's also supposed to be self-serving or not.

:)

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We have a huge rally going on this saturday in London which I will be travelling down to in order to attend :) The one we had in Cardiff knocked out pretty much all the main roads in the town centre but the 15th february demonstration will be HUGE.

Just doing my bit to promote peace and contribute to my image as a pot smoking, long haired, hippy student ;)

Eh, I wouln't put my personal political beliefs into marketing a product, I would keep it wholely seperate (didn't Saddam Hussein buy, like, a BUNCH of PS2s? :P ). Likewise, as a customer and someone who thinks himself freethinking, I wouldn't sell a PS2 or anything else over political ideology spoken through Ads. I will keep the PS2 wholely seperate and judged on its own merits as I preceive them than let an ad dictate how I should feel about something. I hate subways commercials but I like their sandwitches so I keep buying them. I hate 1-800-Collect commercials (with a passion) but if I needed to save someong a buck or two I would use it or any other service like it. The need has never arisen so I don't know which I would use. BUT I DIGRESS.

The point is: I don't think people are very bright if they let marketing influence them one way or another.

ºTracer

Funny how nobody has responded to Hero's statement about a company saying "WE LOVE JESUS!!". I know very well that if a company came out for the war, the same people supporting Sony here would be against said company and saying "HOW AWFUL!"

I still hold to the idea that companies should not make political statements of this sort. My game company has only made three non-game related statements on our site. One about 9/11, one about Columbia and one about the death of Senator Wellstone.

Despite our beliefs, and mind you all of us think along the same political line oddly enough, we've never felt inclined nor do we see it beneficial to try to con others into seeing our point of view.


EDITO: I am not selling my PS2 because I simply dislike the commercial. You (from the Fight Club George W. thread) know what my stance on the war is. As I said before in this thread, when it comes to people I do not agree with politically, I either a) don't talk politics with them or b) don't associate with them at all. I'm choosing "b", because this is beyond one person; this is a corporation that feels as though it must make a statement differing with my political beliefs and, in my beliefs, the well-being of my fellow Americans. Therefore, in my mind, this is a statement supporting the notion that terrorist organizations should be allowed to roam freely and kill freely.

Funny Carter, I just said I wouldn't let advertising influence me. Thats what matter in my opinions. Me. That was my point and aside from that I also said I would think it wise to put in personal political beliefs in an ad. It's devisive and the same could easily be said about I Love Teh Jesus bullshit.

It's no diffrent.

ºTracer

Eh, this is nothing to get your panties in a twist over, I actually found it quite funny. I doubt this will air over here or anything and if it does, it seems nothing more than light hearted.

SCEE are not actively political, they simply try to gain popularity by relaying a message that few disagree on here in Europe. I find the fact that this ad would be controversial in the US rather scary, actually.

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Originally posted by Tracer
I will keep the PS2 wholely seperate and judged on its own merits as I preceive them than let an ad dictate how I should feel about something.

ºTracer

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Since when did the PS2 have merits? hehehe...

Anyway, if more people thought this way Tracer, the video game market would collapse. Americans don't give a flying shit about a consoles' merits or standards or morals or whatever. People care about "image" and marketing, and I think this is why so many people have turned this into such a controversial subject.

Americans, (and Europeans as well) have been bombarded with WAR / Anti-WAR debates for months now. It's all over the television, magazines, newspapers, university debates, etc... And now for it be invading (heh, thats kind of a pun) the consumer gaming market is just too much IMO.

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Originally posted by VNZ
I find the fact that this ad would be controversial in the US rather scary, actually.

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Welcome to TNL, and welcome to the American perspective VNZ.
;)

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Originally posted by VNZ
SCEE are not actively political, they simply try to gain popularity by relaying a message that few disagree on here in Europe. I find the fact that this ad would be controversial in the US rather scary, actually.

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Likewise.

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Originally posted by Sidez
Just doing my bit to promote peace and contribute to my image as a pot smoking, long haired, hippy student ;)

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That explains so much... :bang:

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Originally posted by Hero
Yeah, but for about EVERY 50 antiwar messages I hear on the airwaves and in the papers, there's about 1 pro-war article. Which is then flogged 20 ways til Tuesday by the mainstream.

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What country are YOU in? The "mainstream" is most certainly not anti-war by any means. CBS, NBC, ABC, and FOX can't wait for thier ratings to skyrocket - NBC's parent company GE directly profits from the sale of missiles, etc. - how could they possibly be AGAINST more profits, or even just unbiased?

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Originally posted by Hero
Haha...speaking of peace, those who swear by it don't practice it. There was a large anti-war rally a few months ago in San Fransisco. On the same day, a much smaller, pro war rally went on. The 'peace' loving group promptly went in, started screaming obsenities, and throwing bricks and stones.

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And that one incident OBVIOUSLY represents the actions of everyone who is against us spending 100's of billions of dollars to bomb Iraq ( who better get rid of all weapons of mass destruction or we'll use our weapons of mass destruction on them because we're "good" and they're "bad" ) while back home our economy is falling apart more and more everyday, and the country is in debt up to it's ass. Makes total sense to me........

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Originally posted by Zerodash
Sony jumps on the Anti-American bandwagon

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Anti-war is not Anti-American.

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Originally posted by Jimmy Carter
And thusly, should this ad prove to be real, consider my PS2 sold along with all of its games. I have no patience for this sort of tripe.

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So you're doing this because a branch of a company that you don't seem to have cared for in the first place made a television commerical, which is only shown in countries that you've probably never been in, with a message against a war that you're not participating in.

Maybe on your planet it somehow is considered an act of patriotism to denounce a product of a foreign company, but I don't see what purpose it accomplishes other than to make you look like a complete jackass.

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Originally posted by Yoshi
That explains so much... :bang:

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Be quiet :mad:

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Originally posted by Jimmy Carter
Therefore, in my mind, this is a statement supporting the notion that terrorist organizations should be allowed to roam freely and kill freely.

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You're a fucking moron. Haha, I can't believe this.

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Originally posted by VNZ
SCEE are not actively political, they simply try to gain popularity by relaying a message that few disagree on here in Europe. I find the fact that this ad would be controversial in the US rather scary, actually.

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This is nothing, wait til we start to drawing blood.

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Originally posted by Jimmy Carter
Therefore, in my mind, this is a statement supporting the notion that terrorist organizations should be allowed to roam freely and kill freely.

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? Come on man, you're smarter than that. There's no link between Saddam and terrorism. Had there been, Powell would have been shouting it to the high heavens in front of the UN last week.

Nobody likes Hussein, but thousands of civillians died in the Gulf War, far more than died on sept. 11th. And that was a 3 day conflict in which the defending army didn't even make a stand. Those people have nothing to do with Al Qaeda or invading Kuwait or hiding sarin or anything else. They don't deserve to die, but they will if there's a war. That's all the anti-war people want to prevent.

Trying to connect war protest with supporting terrorism is ridiculous, and someone like you who knows as much about politics as you do you should be above that.

Im sure most of you know that I have no love lost for Sony, and I do believe that the ad is simply playing into popular euro sentiment(troughout Europe, including the countries whose governments support the US support for a war at this moment stands at less then 20%).

The reactions here scare me tough, theyre proof that the Bush administrations policy of lying and deceiving and hatemongering and scaremongering of its own people are working.

I see people in this thread likening not attacking Iraq to allowing terrorists to roam the streets freely, I see people who want to gag oposing vieuws and I see people and a company get attacked for voicing an oppinion that in the end wont matter one bit.

We have newspapers calling France and germany the axis of weasel and further stirring up anti euro sentiment by claiming an anti war stance is akin to spitting on the graves of the soldiers who died in WW2, never once actually do they talk about real justification for war and instead tow the government line without any question.

It took US media 2 days to pick up on the news that the document powell was quoting at the UN to rally support was plagiarised from a school paper.
It took US media 3 days to report that the footage of a plane Powell showed was a decade old.
No one questioned the scaremongering tactics and CG he used since he seemed to lack REAL evidence and real fotos of the alleged mobile chemical labratories(18 big trucks surely are visible to satelite yet instead we get CG) and no one in American media mentioned that the only proof they were goin by for that were claims from Iraqi defectors wich yet again were over a decade old.

Instead those who are actually asking those questions, those who want to debate the isseu and want to be shown real proof are blasted as being anti american or terrorist supporters, we are called weasels and have concerted media campaigns against us.

The US used lies and propaganda to get support for the first Gulf war.
Bush Sr and his cabinet claimed Iraq had moved 230.000 troops and several batalins of tanks towards the Saudi border and that iraq was preparing to invade Saudi Arabia as well and they claimed to have satelite pictures to prove it.
As it turned out they didnt and Russian satelite pictures of the border disproved what they had been claiming.
Bush Sr and his cabinet brought before US congress a teenage girl claiming to be a Quwaiti nurse who told horror stories about Iraqi soldiers killing newborn Quwaiti babies.
After the war it turned out that the girl not only was born in the US but had never even been outside of US borders.

These arent some wild claims by some anti US conspiracy theorist(im a sane person and I absolutely love the US) these are things easily verifyable by legit sources if you do a simple internet search.

Now we have the same sort of sentiment used in every build up to war, propaganda, demonisation and dehumanisation.

Use propaganda and what flimsy knoledge you might or might not have to sway and scare people into supporting youre cause.
Demonise those who oppose youre views.
Dehumanise youre enemy so youre followers wont feel guild and wont see them as humans.

We have the US media being used as a great tool to further the US government agenda right now.
they seem to have lost theyre ability to ask tough questions or look for proof of the governments claims.
The examples I gave were all first reported on by Euro media and only reluctantly and much later picked up by US media and even then they were quite low key compared to the headlines that read SMOKING GUN ON IRAQ(even before Powell presented his flimsy case.
Bush Sr used lies and deception to gain support for his war so why wouldnt his son, just something to think about.

Yet here we are in a community where those who refuse to be scared into compliance and who refuse to be silenced by threats and rhetoric are the once who are being prosecuted for actually asking the questions that should be asked and seeking the truth behind both sides propaganda.


As for me, back in the 80s back when rumsfeld shook Saddam´s hand and called him a great friend of the US and early 90s when US ambassador for Iraq Glaspie told Saddam that the US would consider Iraqs pending invasion of Quwait as an internal Iraqi affair(again do a search for the transcript, she explicitly told Saddam the US would not interfere)I have been expressing my disgust about Saddam and his reign of terror.

The guy has been a menace to his people all his life and I wont shed a tear for his demise.
Fact remains tough that the Iraqi people have been suffering under him and under the Wests compliance for several decades now.
he was the wests preffered dictator so Europe and the Us didnt care he killed hunderds of thousands of his people and used mustardgas on the Kurds and Iran, and in the 90s over a million people have died in Iraq becouse of the draconian sanctions on the country.
meanwhile Saddam hasnt missed a meal over it.

We have failed the Iraqi people big time, first by supporting the person who oppreses them and then by the sanctions upon the country.
The Bush family doesnt have blood on its fingers, theyre swimming in it.

Before flaming me here and in email please do some searches online about the things I mentionend here.

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Haha...speaking of peace, those who swear by it don't practice it. There was a large anti-war rally a few months ago in San Fransisco. On the same day, a much smaller, pro war rally went on. The 'peace' loving group promptly went in, started screaming obsenities, and throwing bricks and stones.

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I was in attendance of an anti-war demonstration in San Francisco about month ago, and I heard there were a small number of skirmishes out of a group of 50,000+ people. You say that as though the entire group went in and incited violence against a group supporting the war effort. I'd hardly say that the actions of a handful of individuals represents the entire mass of the people at the demonstration. Be rational with your generalizations here.

Great post Almaci, all 100% true. It's sick that soldiers weren't warned of uranium used in shells during the gulf war and sanctions the on medicine also. Iraq is truly crippled in every aspect, war on it will be total bloodbath on people who stand no chance.

Heh, seems like I killed the thread.

Jimmy, I think you're overreacting by saying that you will not associaate with someone over what boils down to a difference of opinion.

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Originally posted by Jeremy
Jimmy, I think you're overreacting by saying that you will not associaate with someone over what boils down to a difference of opinion.

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Well, the overall opinions of Americans affect the outcome I'm told.

Hey, this means you're not on my ignore list anymore :)

ºTracer

Wahoo. I'd go on more about this whole war/anti-war debate, but I've spent the better part of five hours doing that on the www.nationofcool.com boards, and if I see one more thing about it, I will go postal... over on the NoC boards, where someone is spouting the most idiotic drivel ever about this.

Highlights:
He respects the opinion of someone because they're a celebrity... in a country that he doesn't live in.
Anyone who disagrees with him is Anti-American.
It is wrong to not like America.
Canada sucks.

I'd continue on, but I'd be missing out on the fun of spending about 200 words debunking each individual sentence he spews.

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Originally posted by ShineAqua
Hero: your not doing much better throwing around phrases like "Social Zealotry." The short of it is that they have a belief and they felt like expressing it. More power to them.

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Ah, but only after you said war-mongerer.

What about a company expressing their pro-Christian stance (if there ever was such in existence)? Don't you dare tell me that the same people who are applauding Sony would be down for that.

Oh yeah...how does this ad 'prevent loss of life?' In the very highly unlikely scenario that bombs dropped on the US tomorrow, would people be chiming in 'damn! Why'd we wait so long to fight back? Fucking Bush...'

Maybe I'm insane, but all it seems like is people are taking the most comfortable stance possible at the current situation and time. If you really don't want us to fight, if you never had or never will, if Ghandi was everything and a bucket of ice cream to you, then you're out of my generalization. I'm talking about the people who were 'patriotic' for about 3 months and went back to 'fuck America' right after. If it were convient to be pro-war tomorrow, people like that would be all over it. I think Marx called them 'useful idiots.'

HAHAHAHAHAHA...Marx insulted the very people who would swear by him. HEHEHEHEHEHEHEHE....

But who knows? Not like I have all the answers, know everything, or claim to do so. Either take my opinion for it's worth, or call me a war-mongerer and move on...even though the last thing I want for anyone would be to die...

Sometimes we can't choose what we want when what is needed has higher presidence. Or maybe we can? Fuck, I'm such a moron.

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When asked if this was about the console war or events in Iraq, a Sony spokesperson seemed confused.

"There's a console war?"

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Gloating within an indirect answer. Bravo, Sony.

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Originally posted by VNZ
SCEE are not actively political, they simply try to gain popularity by relaying a message that few disagree on here in Europe. I find the fact that this ad would be controversial in the US rather scary, actually.

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HEHEHEHEHE...because we're all gun-toting, flag-waving, racist white cowboys?

Please tell me that's what you were thinking. Even to a lesser degree. I don't want to think I'm going insane...yet.

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Originally posted by sphere79
What country are YOU in? The "mainstream" is most certainly not anti-war by any means. CBS, NBC, ABC, and FOX can't wait for thier ratings to skyrocket - NBC's parent company GE directly profits from the sale of missiles, etc. - how could they possibly be AGAINST more profits, or even just unbiased?



And that one incident OBVIOUSLY represents the actions of everyone who is against us spending 100's of billions of dollars to bomb Iraq ( who better get rid of all weapons of mass destruction or we'll use our weapons of mass destruction on them because we're "good" and they're "bad" ) while back home our economy is falling apart more and more everyday, and the country is in debt up to it's ass. Makes total sense to me........

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of course it doesn't. Then again, throwing rocks at someone in the name of peace makes no sense either.

Moral of the story - NOTHING makes sense.

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Originally posted by Hero
I think Marx called them 'useful idiots.'

HAHAHAHAHAHA...Marx insulted the very people who would swear by him. HEHEHEHEHEHEHEHE....

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Lenin, not Marx. Regardless, I pretty much agree with your take.

I'm moving this to Sound Off because nobody is discussing games here. And, unlike Sony, I want to keep my games and politics separate.

PS: You think Sony would do the same thing if they didn't have an overwhelming lead in console sales? Nope. They would be cherishing each and every customer. Again, I'm not against their politics, just their complete lack of ethics in this case. Then again, look what Acclaim is doing in Europe for exposure. Is this type of thing common in Europe? I'm not being smarmy, I really don't know.

Pah none of you girly ass warmongering scared to submission idiotic right wing fools dares to dig into my post.
Come on girls im calling you out, ill take you on, ill take all of you on.

Since this is moved to Fight club anyway.

Since when is Sound Off, Fight Club? Anyways, Acclaim's dipshit marketing is universal, and not just limited to Europe. Thank God for THAT one...

Quote:

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Originally posted by Almaci
Pah none of you girly ass warmongering scared to submission idiotic right wing fools dares to dig into my post.
Come on girls im calling you out, ill take you on, ill take all of you on.

Since this is moved to Fight club anyway.

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Shut up. No one cares about your post.

Oops this aint fight club, my bad.

Oh and yeah people dont care about reason, good argumentation and solid discusion.
They rather see war then hear about what is goin on for real and how theyre lead on like a bunch of helples pupies.

Almaci, I salute you.

Quote:

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Originally posted by Almaci
Pah none of you girly ass warmongering scared to submission idiotic right wing fools dares to dig into my post.
Come on girls im calling you out, ill take you on, ill take all of you on.

Since this is moved to Fight club anyway.

---

Except it's in Sound Off ^_^

And I thought I already took care of the degredation and stereotyping of the right? Must've missed something. Not like it matters! =D

Bush probably has all kinds of illegal covert ops throughout Iraq that have relayed him top-secret information about their weapons... and because they're so deep in he can't reveal to the US that they are actually there...

Or at least, that's the only explaination i can think of for why he's so stalwart when it comes to this war with Iraq, instead of just saying "OH HE JUST WANTS OIL CUZ HES A DUMBASS!@!!!1211" (which I am so fucking tired of hearing, and i'm not even a Bush supporter)

when people look at the history of american imperialism.. and how it help create the 3rd world nations, along with britian, frace, spain, neatherlands etc.. people dont like to lesten..

its like the saying.. when your on top.. alls fine and dandy.. theirs no reason to look down, at the people that are holding you up..

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Originally posted by FirstBlood
Bush probably has all kinds of illegal covert ops throughout Iraq that have relayed him top-secret information about their weapons... and because they're so deep in he can't reveal to the US that they are actually there...

Or at least, that's the only explaination i can think of for why he's so stalwart when it comes to this war with Iraq, instead of just saying "OH HE JUST WANTS OIL CUZ HES A DUMBASS!@!!!1211" (which I am so fucking tired of hearing, and i'm not even a Bush supporter)

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You, sir, kick much ass.

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Originally posted by maruchan
when people look at the history of american imperialism.. and how it help create the 3rd world nations, along with britian, frace, spain, neatherlands etc.. people dont like to lesten..

its like the saying.. when your on top.. alls fine and dandy.. theirs no reason to look down, at the people that are holding you up..

---

Would you like to rise up against the capitalist pigs, all in the name of the ideas of men who find your following foolish in the first place?

Just a rhetoric - you don't have to answer. Hell, you wouldn't have to even if I demanded one. But I'm not an ass like that...maybe I'm just a different type of ass. Or maybe I'm a nice guy. Not like that has anything to do with any of this. But run-off tangents are fun.

Argueing about Politics will slowly turn you into a faggot.

THAT is all.

ºTracer

and tracer nails it.

*goes to sleep*

Oh IC so yeah theyve got these oodles of overwhelming evidence but urm theyre not sharing it with anyone and we can trust em on the evidence part and they all mean well and all will be shown once that pesky saddam is gone right?
Gee and WE are called naive by the war supporters.

Oh and then there is this

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Would you like to rise up against the capitalist pigs, all in the name of the ideas of men who find your following foolish in the first place?

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Hero why are you willing to support a leader who is lying to you, is holding office illegitimetly, and who has no regards to the arguments of anyone else?
This aint about comunism and some silly remarks made by lenin long before any of us were born.
We are talking about youre president wilfully lying and deceiving you into supporting a war designed to avert attention from the horrible ways he is fucking youre country up.
The world contrary to his statements and what the majority in the US now seems to believe is not black and white, not supporting the war does not equel supporting Saddam or terrorism as he would have you believe.
Wake up and open youre eyes, dont lose youre ability to think and feel.
A conscious is a terrible thing to waste, dont lose it.

Quote:

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Argueing about Politics will slowly turn you into a faggot

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This aint about politics, its about policy yes but not politics.

Quote:

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Originally posted by Almaci
Oh IC so yeah theyve got these oodles of overwhelming evidence but urm theyre not sharing it with anyone and we can trust em on the evidence part and they all mean well and all will be shown once that pesky saddam is gone right?
Gee and WE are called naive by the war supporters.

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... did i say anything about trusting/believing my own theory?

no, because that's all it is, a theory

Well, I'm convinced. We should go to war.

Quote:

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Originally posted by FirstBlood
... did i say anything about trusting/believing my own theory?

no, because that's all it is, a theory

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No but Hero acknoledged it wich validates my response wich was not directed at you but at him.

Again... why is no war a bad thing?

Quote:

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Originally posted by Almaci
Oh IC so yeah theyve got these oodles of overwhelming evidence but urm theyre not sharing it with anyone and we can trust em on the evidence part and they all mean well and all will be shown once that pesky saddam is gone right?
Gee and WE are called naive by the war supporters.

---

Umm do you follow the news?
Colin Powell presented some evidence before the UN like last week. Id love to see links to the US media you speak of that uncovered Powell's "lies", and Id also like to ask you why it hasnt been all over the news. A liberal news organization like CNN would love to shame the Bush administration with it.

Quote:

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Originally posted by The Ampersand
Well, I'm convinced. We should go to war.

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Well I'm convinced that I have no say in the matter.

No war is a very good thing, the problem is, that isn't the likely thing. I'm sure this whole thing could be solved if Al Gore simply spoke to Saddam and bored him to death, literally.

Ultimately - Worse things have happend than war with Iraq. I do not belive that there is enough evidence either way, so I'll just suppose Saddamm can be had on past attrositys that I keep hearing about. At the end of the day - It won't matter. There are no borders, there are no ethicisties there are no real matters of import.

I want the best for myself, and thusly, mankind: but hey... man doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things anyway.

We're made from the stuff of stars and one day, we will be remade so like again. So war or no war. I'm tired of debateing it. I'd rather just come to grips with it and accept that nothing I can say or do is going to change this course, so just accept it and live your life. The wild flowers in spring here in Texas are really nice. =/

ºTracer

Quote:

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Originally posted by diffusionx
Umm do you follow the news?
Colin Powell presented some evidence before the UN like last week. Id love to see links to the US media you speak of that uncovered Powell's "lies", and Id also like to ask you why it hasnt been all over the news. A liberal news organization like CNN would love to shame the Bush administration with it.

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Stop kidding yourself, none of the big US media outlets are conducting fair reporting.
CNN in that regard aint that much better then Fox or the other big boys.
Like I said US media picks up the stories disproving Powell´s claims only reluctantly long after European media has reported on them.
Here is one that went up on CNN today: http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/...cin/index.html

Quote:

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Originally posted by diffusionx
Umm do you follow the news?
Colin Powell presented some evidence before the UN like last week. Id love to see links to the US media you speak of that uncovered Powell's "lies", and Id also like to ask you why it hasnt been all over the news. A liberal news organization like CNN would love to shame the Bush administration with it.

---

Hmm... According to yesterday's paper:

Bin Laden: "Iraqis should fight against America blah blah evil blah blah but Saddam is still an infidel and a loser and the Iraqi government sucks"

Powell: "Aha! See, Al Qaida is cooperating with Iraq"

Uh... Americans aren't that stupid, are they?

I'll only throw out my PS2 if Sony says something I really disagree with. Companies use political messages all the time - at least "No War" is something constructive.

- Matt

Quote:

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Originally posted by Almaci
Stop kidding yourself, none of the big US media outlets are conducting fair reporting.
CNN in that regard aint that much better then Fox or the other big boys.
Like I said US media picks up the stories disproving Powell´s claims only reluctantly long after European media has reported on them.
Here is one that went up on CNN today: http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/...cin/index.html

---

Youre an idiot.
01. In an earlier page in this thread you said that UNITED STATES MEDIA (not European media) has uncovered the fact that Powell plagarized a school paper and that some of the surveillance photos are a decade old.
02. The link you gave me tells me none of that.
03. Show me a fucking link of the United States media saying exactly what you said they did in an earlier page in this thread.
04. This article is interesting but does not say anything near what you accused Powell of. It says that yes they are probably twisting words around a bit and all that and thats not cool, but again, it doesnt state anything about CG, school papers, or decade old photos.

Cough it up. I really do want to see it.

By the way, Im not pro-war or con-war or whatever catchphrase you want to use. I think Sony's ad was stupid but that really is neither here nor there.

Go back and fucking read what I wrote and come back and tell me who the idiot is.

I said it took US media 2 and 3 days to REPORT on stuff found out by EUROPEAN media.
I also explained its low key compared to theyre SMOKING GUN headlines.

Sheesh, were you born this retarded?

Quote:

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Originally posted by Almaci
Go back and fucking read what I wrote and come back and tell me who the idiot is.

I said it took US media 2 and 3 days to REPORT on stuff found out by EUROPEAN media.
I also explained its low key compared to theyre SMOKING GUN headlines.

Sheesh, were you born this retarded?

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SO WHERE IS IT ASSMONGER?

Links man!

You can talk all you want, but cough it up.

Is it so low-key it doesn't exist?

Stop beating around the bush, so to speak.

Show me a fucking link. From Europe, America, I dont give a fuck.

I wanna know about this CG and grade school papers and shit.

SHUT THE FUCK UP AND SHOW ME THE FUCKING NEWS ARTICLE.

Quote:

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Originally posted by Yoshi
I am 100% opposed to their politics but agree with everything else you said. No Japanese company has any business commenting on war considering that we have been their body guard for the last 60 years.

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Yes, God knows they asked us to do that for them.

Quote:

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Originally posted by Almaci
The reactions here scare me tough, theyre proof that the Bush administrations policy of lying and deceiving and hatemongering and scaremongering of its own people are working.

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And that's different from every other admistration, how exactly?

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. . . never once actually do they talk about real justification for war and instead tow the government line without any question.

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There is never any "real" justification for war. But sometimes war must be waged for the good of mankind. Don't give me any crap about peaceful resolutions, either - we all know how well it worked with ol' Adolf.

Quote:

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It took US media 2 days to pick up on the news that the document powell was quoting at. . .were claims from Iraqi defectors wich yet again were over a decade old.

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Links? I don't feel like searching.

Quote:

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The US used lies and propaganda to get support for the first Gulf war.
Bush Sr and his cabinet claimed Iraq had moved 230.000 troops and several . . .Quwait as an internal Iraqi affair(again do a search for the transcript, she explicitly told Saddam the US would not interfere)I have been expressing my disgust about Saddam and his reign of terror.

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Of course! This is political manuvering by all parties involved. Governments have never been about complete truth - someone is always deceiving someone else; such is the nature of power.

Quote:

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The guy has been a menace to his people all his life and I wont shed a tear for his demise.
Fact remains tough that the Iraqi people have been suffering under him and under the Wests compliance for several decades now.
he was the wests preffered dictator so Europe and the Us didnt care he killed hunderds of thousands of his people and used mustardgas on the Kurds and Iran, and in the 90s over a million people have died in Iraq becouse of the draconian sanctions on the country.
meanwhile Saddam hasnt missed a meal over it.

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At least we all agree he's a worthless SOB.

Quote:

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We have failed the Iraqi people big time, first by supporting the person who oppreses them and then by the sanctions upon the country.
The Bush family doesnt have blood on its fingers, theyre swimming in it.

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We failed the Iraqi people when we failed to remove Saddam the first time.

I'm not a warmonger. I just don't disagree with my President (who I did not vote) and his administration's policy towards Iraq.

War on Iraq is inevitable. Protest all you want - the only way to change things is through the act of voting.

I think Tracer was right, I think I may be turning into a double reed instrument....must...stop...talking...poLITics!!

#6

Quote:

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Originally posted by Jeremy
Like my sig says- We've run out of beer, time to shoot some guns!

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This reminds me of how stateline gas stations sale Booze and Fireworks.

Yes, this thread is full of a bunch of talking (typeing) bundles of sticks.

ºTracer

Powell does a 180 with regards to Al Queda and Iraq
http://slate.msn.com/id/2078437/

The paper Powell used to quote from before the UN
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...n_dossier_dc_1


Ritter speaks up
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...er_inspector_2

Sites claimed by powel to be used for WMD come out clean

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...well_s_sites_2
Quote:In his U.N. address, Powell revived a previous U.S. allegation that the building of a larger al-Rafah test "stand" — a concrete and steel structure to hold and test engines — signaled that Iraq would test engines for larger missiles violating the U.N. limit.
But the U.N. missile experts have reported inspecting al-Rafah at least five times since inspections resumed Nov. 27, have studied the specifications of the new test stand, regularly monitor tests at the installation, and have thus far reported no concerns.

Now shut the fuck up and do youre own fucking searches you fucker.
Its almost 6am over here, im crancky and im of to bed and I dont like being called an idiot by an idiot.

:confused: Shit. This got ugly pretty quick...

It always does. I'm suprised FC isn't full of this political shit.

I expect it to be deported soon enough anyway.

Political discussions do. I like the ad but had it pegged as either Euro or fake pretty quick. Remember, it's the Euro branch of Sony that had the incredibly cool David Lynch ads, I don't think we'd see anything as stylish as this in the US.

I quite liked the ad, actually.

James