It pissed me off like no other game, I took my controller and smashed against the floor until it broke in pure frustration when I reached the train.
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It pissed me off like no other game, I took my controller and smashed against the floor until it broke in pure frustration when I reached the train.
Ouch, you shouldn't play Gunvalkyrie then.
I have, the original Xbox controller probably damaged my hands for life but I beat it and had a pretty good time with it. After cooling off for a few hours I picked up ZOE2 and finished it(and returned it), I was a pretty big fan of the original but the camera was a mess in part 2.
Actually It only took me 2 tries on the train, guess I got lucky. I used gauntlet to hit the incoming enemies (raptors), which knocked them backwards down the tunnel and they couldnt catch up to their starting points. then I just wailed on the train and repeat for each section. the other thing i noticed is the tunnel forces you down so you have to constantly keep elevating, and as long as you are off to the side of the tunnel the beams cant hit you.
What's the deal with everyone crying about the train? Yeah, it was kind of tricky, but... I did get it my first run through. Barely, but still. I'm not even good at the game.
I found the train level challenging, depends on how you use your sub-weapons, maybe you're just unlocked some untapped potential in ZOE 2 skill awesomeness :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomi
Yeah right. I'm not good at ANYTHING, save for puzzle games, and sub-par goodness with DDR (which I can no longer play). I can safely assure you, anyone can destroy me in actual combat. I just had a combination of clever/cheap tactics and luck that makes that level not so hard.
The train isn't nearly as bad as when you have to get that corrupt AI out of that bitch's orbital frame without killing her. Especially when you go back through the game with all sub-weapons and uber-power.
Three words:Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Vegetable
Poochy Ain't Stupid
Excuses for being modest and more skilled. Go back to the DDR then ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomi
Oh Christ, that one with Nephtis and the AI you had to 'download' into Jehuty... My God that was a nightmare. I'll admit being retarded, I couldn't figure out what to do for a few tries. I kept killing her! I about quit the game at that part.
See? The train doesn't have shit on that part.
One thing I love about this (and most Hideo Kojima games) is the interaction between characters. Like in this when ADA says something and you can give a positive or negative response. Those can be damn hilarious. They certainly were in MGS2.
Can't play DDR because of my back. And really, I do suck at the game, I just happened to not find excess challenge in the train sequence.Quote:
Originally Posted by DjRocca
Bitch. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Nomi
Anyone else having trouble finding a copy these days?
I've been looking to pick one up for quite a while.
Yeah I can't find one new or used anywhere in my town.
D
I yawn at Poochy Ain't Stupid.Quote:
Originally Posted by Compass
The rotating tower at the end of Battletoads.
I got it new and sealed for $15.00 at Circuit City... been a few weeks, though.Quote:
Originally Posted by dyomides
If you want one without a manual, I'm selling mine. Shameless sales in the official thread! Yay!
It still plays just fine, the disc is in good shape. Please, buy for cheap and help me get my ASC.
Okay, so it only took me 4 years but I finally bought this game.
It's pretty damn nice looking even after all this time, I'm not sure last gen ever looked better than this.
The game plays well, but DANGIT! This camera setuo is annoying. MarkRyan, I never want to hear another crack about Ninja Gaiden's camera, this is worse than that. It works fine until you need to focus on anything other than one enemy. That escort mission where you had to carry Taper to the launcher, I'd be trying to angle around to protect him and I just couldn't because I could only look wherever the enemy I was locked onto was flying.
You can hold L2 or a second to let go of the lock, but it's totally pointless because you end up getting shot while waiting for the lock to break, and then it'll just decide to lock on again as soon as you see another enemy. I'm on the train level, and it's just brutal - if a car is shooting at me and it's too far to lock onto, I'm taking hits but the camera swings arond to look at my sideways any time I push to the side, so I can't even see what's shooting at me. And if you don't have anything to lock onto after defeating all enemies in front of you, you float around slowly turning the camera while Naritas wail on your back.
Fortunately this only matters in very select situations and its fine other than that, but it's still kind of annoying. Good game otherwise though.
:lol: Owned by a 14 year old girl.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomi
The greatest hyperbole I've seen on TNL. Not including this one I'm making now.Quote:
Originally Posted by StriderKyo
Honestly I had very few problems with the camera. I do wish there was a way to specify targeting an enemy or a friendly. But to compare the ZOE2 camera unfavorably to Ninja Gaiden's, which points at walls and quite frequently doesn't have you or the thing you're fighting on the screen, is a jump I'm not willing to accept.
Glad you got the game, though.
Yeah, but NG you can reorient the camera behind you at the touch of a button, you aren't left physically unable to look where you need to.
ZOE's setup would actually probably be fine if the camera moved back at certain times. Like I said, it works great most of the time, lousy at a few others.
I have one other request for the inevitable sequel - they need to do something about the subweapons. Having everything stop while you cycle through a text menu just takes you out of the game. The first one did the same thing, and I figured it was just a symptom of how rushed that game was, I thought for sure they'd come up with something quicker & more intuitive for part 2. I find myself sticking with one weapon even when it would be realy advantageous to keep changing. Fortunately, Grab > everything.
You can tap the sub-weapon menu button to just cycle through them. Right?
I dunno, I liked the way it was set up--like picking weapons in MGS.
everytime i go into EB i check out the used section to find it, ive always wanted to play it.
Looks like these guys have it available, new. $40
I bought Rez and Gitaroo-Man from them. They're legit.
Sorry, but this point I have to disagree with. You can technically reorient at the touch of a button, but I was forced to rely almost entirely on the game's auto-directional attacking anytime I got near a wall (all the time). So much rolling around and constant jumping meant that the camera needed to be pulled back a lot more, because 90% of what I saw was just walls. NG's camera was just too close to ever see what was being fought. I usually saw the enemy, and then as soon as battle began I would only catch glimpses when Hayabusa physically struck them, and even that wasn't 100%.Quote:
Originally Posted by StriderKyo
Not that ZOE2's is a shining example of how to make a camera or anything. Now, it wasn't as bad as Onimusha 2, that game had it so terrible everything else is like the Havok of camera systems in comparision. Remember when I bitched about god-awful DMC's fixed system was? After playing Onimusha 2 I tried DMC again and it felt like a gift from the gods. I'm pretty sure it was created by the first all-down syndome videogame design team.
As I recall, holding down L2 will keep you from re-locking onto other enemies. I ended up doing that extensively with one of the Viola fights, as the camera just goes to shit in tight corridors.
If you liked ZoE2 and don't mind moonspeak, try out Another Century's Episode 2. The gameplay is very similar, down to a nearly identical locking mechanism. But ACE2 also maps camera control to the right stick so you have a fair amount of control over it. In addition, subweapons can be used by holding a button and then pressing another - no need to cycle through them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MechDeus
How far did you get? The only level in the game that has a problem like your were having is just the first level (super tight small corridors)
The camera was excellent especially in the combat. The camera automatically pans out for a wider view & moves more overhead when you face enemies.
I can't speak for MechDeus, but I endured through the fifth level before I got tired of the camera.Quote:
Originally Posted by WTFer
It boggles my mind that anyone could call Ninja Gaiden's camera "excellent." If it worked for you, cool, but I cannot for the life of me think of a worse camera than Ninja Gaiden's.Quote:
The camera was excellent especially in the combat. The camera automatically pans out for a wider view & moves more overhead when you face enemies.
this is just ace. i also completely agree on all counts you made about NG.Quote:
Originally Posted by MechDeus
Metal Gear Solid. I enjoy MGS but I swear I am playing pac-man.Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkRyan
At least a couple times through; First game I did normal and part of hard, then NGB on hard and about half of very hard. You're correct in that the first level was the only level in the game that had that problem while standing still and just walking around, but I was referring to combat. It wasn't game breaking thanks to the aforementioned auto-aiming but it was still pretty god-awful.Quote:
Originally Posted by WTFer
In any case, I still need to finish ZOE2 one day. I got sidetracked for some reason even though I was really enjoying it (spaceship assault ftw) and just never got back to it. I'm currently on a PS2 spree so maybe I'll try to slip this in before Crackdown hits.
Oy, seriously? So weird how opinions can vary so wildly, 'cause I think the MGS series has some of the best camerawork in games :/Quote:
Originally Posted by kingoffighters
It did in Subsistence.
Red Ninja's is worse.Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkRyan
You might seriously be the only person on Earth who played that game. Not a slam against you, it's just fascinating. I, by the same token, am probably the only person who played through and beat Dragon Slayer 3D on the Xbox, the first 1080i game on the system. It wasn't worth it.
lol. Red Ninja literally has worst camera I've ever seen.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoZeedeater
Agreed, no complaints in Subsistence. But the rest is not great (by design). I still enjoy the game but I keep thinking that I would enjoy it alot more if I can SEE the guards 20 ft away.Quote:
Originally Posted by g0zen
you mean dragons lair.Quote:
Originally Posted by g0zen
AAAAAGGGGGHHHHHHHHH
I picked this game up again after leaving it sitting for about 5 months.
I'm still stuck at the train. I'd just like to confirm that this is the worst camera I've ever seen in any game, ever. It physically will not let me look at what I want to look at. After I kill a swarm of enemies, it whips around and focuses on the wall and I have to manually turn it slowly towards the enemies that are raping me. Ninja Gaiden's is the best camera of all time by comparison, I hate this setup so much. The only way it could possibly be worse is if the screen just went black.
I'm about to put this game down and never pick it up again, this sequence is that frustrating. I think the controls are pretty damn awkward too.
Is there any reason to persevere? Like, after the train stage does it suddenly turn into one of the best games of all time? Because that's the only thing that could get me to turn it on again. It's really disappointing, I think the presentation is freaking awesome but having to constantly wrestle with the worst camera implementation of all time is making me hate this game. You sure talked big, didn't you Henry G?
I remember being stuck on the train for a few tries but I don't recall it being too horrible. You'll be fine.DO NOT QUESTION THE MIGHT OF ONIMUSHA 2Quote:
Originally Posted by StriderKyo
[edit] lol I said the same thing five months ago.
What game are you playing, Strider? In ZOE2, you just tap L2 (I think) to lock-on to the nearest target, which in your case would be the train. You really should never have to use the right-analog stick for controlling the camera.
Wait until the last fight with Viola, which takes place in several circular corridors. And, of course, the camera won't let you lock onto her until she's visible. Oh, have I mentioned that there are other pipsqueak enemies floating around, so you probably won't manage to lock onto her even when it is possible?
If you aren't afraid of importing, try Another Century's Episode 2. It's like ZoE but with licensed mechs and a camera that actually works.
I haven't played it in a while--I should try it out on the PS3 but I remember the battle against the the airship armada and the clusterfuck at the end being spectacular. Work on ZOE sequel after MGS plz.
The last half of the game is the best by a long shot. Get through the train level and the rest is awesome.
IAWTPQuote:
Originally Posted by StriderKyo
The camera in this game is better than Ninja Gaiden's camera. Also, this game is a cakewalk...if you're having problems beating this game then you have to be doing something wrong.
This is also the best game on the PS2 by a landslide. There needs to be a PS3 sequel now.
The second half might be marginally better than the first half, but it's still a mediocre game in a pretty package.
And yeah... this is probably the only game I've played where I felt the camera was a hindrance. But enough about that. The fundamental game is so simplistic that bad camera is the least of its problems.
"Bitter Gamer" is right...ZOE 2 is too good for words :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsubaki
:wtf::wtf::wtf:Quote:
Originally Posted by magnifiedplaid
What? Is this not widely considered a great game? I just can't think of any PS2 game that I enjoyed playing more than ZOE2. They waste too much time on that Metal Gear Solid series, and they need to devote more time to ZOE.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Gas
Boktai kills them both. More real sun-powered portable Boktais pls.
I think if there was another ZOE game, Kojima would have to come out of retirement cause he doesnt like others messing with his intellectual property. Or so it seems.
Retirement?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gymkata
Here's a decent video of the train stage with no apparent camera problems.
I've seen that before; I wouldn't say "no apparent camera problems," he just knows when the camera's about to go loopy and adjusts. I think alot of it is that he stays really close to the train the whole time; there's a maximum range to the lock on, and if you're back from the train it won't grab anything so you get to stare at the wall while lasers cream you.
Dash in the direction of the train (or whatever you want to look at) and briefly let go of the control stick--the camera automatically whips around to point exactly where Jehuty is facing (I forget if you can hold the dash and continue forward movement when you release the left analog stick to recenter the camera).Quote:
Originally Posted by StriderKyo
I honestly, truly did not once use the right analog stick to change the camera outside of my first minutes with the game when I was testing to see what all the buttons did.
I'll pick up the game again and give that a shot. I also notice in that video he uses comet alot; I'd been using whatever that thing is where you throw golfballs at the enemy and they get stunned and following it up with grab.Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkRyan