Official Metal Gear Solid 2: Substance thread

Solid Snake is once again sneaking onto store shelves this week, with the release of the Playstation 2 version of Konami’s Metal Gear Solid 2: Substance. The best part? When you purchase it, you find out that buying it was actually a dream within a VR simulation based on when you bought the first Metal Gear Solid.

Created by Hideo Kojima, the father of Metal Gear, Substance includes hundreds of new VR missions, new playable characters, and Snake’s Tales, a series of new, and quite difficult, missions involving everyone’s favorite sneak.

With the PS2 release of Substance, Konami is hoping to match the success of the original Metal Gear Solid 2, which sold over 2 million copies in the US alone, and over 5 million worldwide. This comes on the heels of the announcement that there’s a Metal Gear game in development for the Gamecube. Metal Gear Solid 2: Substance was released for the Xbox last November to high praise, and there is a PC version set to be released on March 18. Substance is available now at an MSRP of $39.99.

Read TNL's review of the Xbox version of Metal Gear Solid 2: Substance right here.

Hey, mark your spoilers! ;)

what are you talking about? my review doesn't contain spoilers.

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Originally posted by Masters
The best part? When you purchase it, you find out that buying it was actually a dream within a VR simulation based on when you bought the first Metal Gear Solid.

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Oops. I was just goofing on this. :)

Ah, that doesn't spoil anything. The ending was so convoluted anyway that I could post the actual ending, word for word, and no one would feel that the game was spoiled. They'd just be as confused as I was.

The ending to MGS2 is just like the ending to Empire Strikes Back, only instead of Darth Vader you have Dr. Octupus and instead of Luke you have Meg Ryan.

Bah. I drop teh poop on all of you. I love the game.

The actual game part of MGS is good, it's a shame that it only makes up about 40% of the actual product.

Ok, I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere, but I don't suppose your saves from MGS 2 will work with this, will they?

I absolutley LOVED the graphics and gameplay of SOL, but the lack of actual PLAY and the overuse of cinema was really a turn-off. The ending ruined the whole game for me, almost. I was really dissapointed. Enough to want my $50 back...

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Originally posted by taloony
Ok, I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere, but I don't suppose your saves from MGS 2 will work with this, will they?

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No....but even if they did - what would be the point in even getting the new version?

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Originally posted by SaturnHalo
I absolutley LOVED the graphics and gameplay of SOL, but the lack of actual PLAY and the overuse of cinema was really a turn-off. The ending ruined the whole game for me, almost. I was really dissapointed. Enough to want my $50 back...

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Cry me a river.

Did you expect something different? Did you even play Metal Gear Solid?

I did! Metal Gear Solid didn't have the lolalelilalulalieleialiell or whatever the hell they're called. Nor the "Patriots". And the story made sense. And it was flat-out a better game. :chick:

I have never played through MGS. But I took home the Xbox version of Substance from the Video Store I worked at and Played to for 12 hours straight and beat and loved every part of it. I am waiting for the Game Cube version of MGS to play through that. But Sons of Liberty is fantastic.

Cut the cutscene time!

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Originally posted by bahn
No....but even if they did - what would be the point in even getting the new version?

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I got rid of my copy about a year ago, and I'd just like to have the dog tag stuff saved. The numerous extras are incentive enough for me to get the new version though, even if I still had the old.

This game taunted me all day while I was at work.

Can't... afford... to... buy...

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Originally posted by taloony
I got rid of my copy about a year ago, and I'd just like to have the dog tag stuff saved. The numerous extras are incentive enough for me to get the new version though, even if I still had the old.

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I was considering playing through the original MGS2 just to collect all the dog tags.

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Originally posted by 88mph
This game taunted me all day while I was at work.

Can't... afford... to... buy...

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Thought you had the xbox version?

I do... PS2 version has the skateboarding minigame.

I also like to get every version of games I like.

Game Informer is reporting that Silicon Knights is porting MGS2 to GameCube to be released along side Twin Snakes.

anyways, this sounds very believable to me. but as far as it's release goes, i think it's gonna be one of 2 things. they're either gonna bundle it in with Twin Snakes, or give it away to people that Pre-Order Twin Snakes.
no way in hell are they gonna release it and sell it seperately though.

anyways, here's hoping that it's a port of Substance, because i've been waiting for that to drop to $20 before picking it up, but hey, if i can get it free, then awesome.

why wouldn't they sell it seperately?

do you really have to ask? look at it this way. why would they?

well, let's see...

it would compete with Twin Snakes. that right there already guarentees it won't happen. Nintendo doesn't release budget titles, and there's no way in hell they're gonna release a 2 year old game at full price. and the whole giving games away with pre-orders has worked very very well for them.

i don't see how you could even question that one. no way they're gonna release MGS2 for sale.

Substance?

Eithery way I couldn't care less.

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Originally Posted by Lucas Barton

do you really have to ask? look at it this way. why would they?

well, let's see...

it would compete with Twin Snakes. that right there already guarentees it won't happen. Nintendo doesn't release budget titles, and there's no way in hell they're gonna release a 2 year old game at full price. and the whole giving games away with pre-orders has worked very very well for them.

i don't see how you could even question that one. no way they're gonna release MGS2 for sale.

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That didn't stop Capcom from releasing RE 3 Nemesis and RE 2 for $39. Shame on you Capcom.

Besides I have MGS2 Substance for PS2 already so I see little reason to buy it unless it has even more considerable features/tweaked stuff.

Nintendo would never release a two year old game as new? Well, that hasn't stopped them from selling decade-old games as new on the GBA, nothing stopping them from doing it on the GC. I hope they do include MGS 2 (any version) as a pre-order freebie though, as it would give folks more of a reason to buy the game who otherwise would just wait for a price drop. It would probably also help move some systems as well.

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Originally Posted by Will

That didn't stop Capcom from releasing RE 3 Nemesis and RE 2 for $39.

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and Capcom became Nintendo when?

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Originally Posted by Jeremy

Nintendo would never release a two year old game as new? Well, that hasn't stopped them from selling decade-old games as new on the GBA

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decade old games that a whole generation haven't played. and i hope you're not talking about $5 eCard games. that's far from full price obviously.
i don't see how you could compare the 2. once again, the GBA games are games that a whole generation of gamers haven't played. MGS2 is 2 years old, and can be bought on 2 other systems. For $20 no less.

If they released a Substance version on GC (which I think they would have to - I don't see how they can release plain old MGS2 when a newer version is pretty old itself) it would sorta make sense.

Even still, way to be a step behind everyone else, Nintendo. You almost make it seem cool.

what is it with you guys being so against the idea of it being a pre-order freebie?

I was referring to the GBA ports of games, not the e-reader stuff, which I'm actually a fan of. Seeing them release those games at a rock-bottom price is a great way to introduce folks to them. I'm not against them putting MGS 2 or Substance in as pre-order freebies, I just doubt they will do it.

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Originally Posted by Lucas Barton

what is it with you guys being so against the idea of it being a pre-order freebie?

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I'm not, but it still wouldn't benefit me (and probably most people) in the least. Unless you enjoy losing shelf space. :p

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Originally Posted by Lucas Barton

......there's no way in hell they're gonna release a 2 year old game at full price.

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Originally Posted by Lucas Barton

and Capcom became Nintendo when?

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The fact that Nintendo let the price for really old RE ports be almost full price is why its not totally out of the question that Konami/Nintendo would release MGS2 at $39 or some absurd price.

I'm not against the freebie if you pre-order it but nontheless as Omnigear said I don't care either way as long as they don't release it as if it were a brand new game worth buying again.

I doubt we'll see MGS2 on the Cube in any form soon. I much rather have the old MSX games anyway. If they do manage to include all of that though, then the GameCube would then become the definite console for the Metal Gear series (it would have all four installments so far AND Ghost Babel on the GBP).

I wouldn't mind a full-fledge MGS2-remake just as long as they include a version of the Plant Chapter played from Pliskin's view.

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Originally Posted by Will

The fact that Nintendo let the price for really old ports be almost full price is why its not totally out of the question that Konami/Nintendo would release MGS2 at 39 or something.

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i don't really think that one was up to Nintendo.

this on the other hand, is pretty much a Nintendo game in every way. the only hand Konami has in this, is Kojima's input, and Nintendo making the deal sweeter for Konami by letting them publish the game.

Maybe they'll port it and give it a better plot this time ;)

Seriously it would be better to just port the first 2 MSX games on a single GameCube disc... even if they left them as is and just translated them I would be more interested in those then another port of MGS2.

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Originally Posted by Lucas Barton

what is it with you guys being so against the idea of it being a pre-order freebie?

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Because there's no confirmation that it's a freebie or concrete proof it exists yet. Also unlike Zelda Oot and Resident Evil, MGS 2 was designed for current hardware and would require more work for a port, the more money a company funnels into a game, the less chance it'll be a freebie. *-neo

Lucas, you should be able to find Substance for 20 bucks, I've seen it for Xbox at different places for that price.

i would rather get it on PS2

As well you definitely should... the PS2 version is a far better product. No slowdown, optimal controls, and uhh, Snakeboarding, I suppose. Plus you can unlock things easily if you have The Document of Metal Gear Solid 2.

Plus much cooler cover art!

better controls, and no slowdown are what did it for me. cover art is icing on the cake.

but yeah, like i said, if it's a freebie (which im sure it will be), then awesome.

Could've swore I seen it on PS2 for twenty somewhere.

Probably, it hasn't exactly been setting sales charts on fire on anything, and it's readily available... only a matter of time till it's $20 and less as far as the eye can see.

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Originally Posted by Green

Could've swore I seen it on PS2 for twenty somewhere.

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Yeah, in my pants.

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Originally Posted by Will

Yeah, in my pants.

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Bingo! :sonic:

maybe thats why it' called "Twin Snakes" ...as in 2 MGS games :)

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Originally Posted by marwan

maybe thats why it' called "Twin Snakes" ...as in 2 MGS games :)

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Or not... have you ever even played MGS?

OMG THE TITEL IS A SPOILER!!111

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Originally Posted by 88mph

Or not... have you ever even played MGS?

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yep :nod: ...finished MGS1 and MG2.

The truth is that Nintendo re-releases games all the time. Saying they wouldn't release a sucn and such old game because it's lame or whatever is just plain dumbass.

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Originally Posted by Green

Bingo! :sonic:

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But why were you looking there in the first place? ;)

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Originally Posted by Lucas Barton

what is it with you guys being so against the idea of it being a pre-order freebie?

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It's sad that Gamecube games need expensive preorder freebies/2-games-for-the-price-of-1 type of deals to generate decent sales. Even the system essentially sells for $99. Let's hope that next year's "surprise hardware announcement" isn't that Nintendo has sold its GCN technology to a cable company.

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Originally Posted by Andrew

The truth is that Nintendo re-releases games all the time. Saying they wouldn't release a sucn and such old game because it's lame or whatever is just plain dumbass.

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you obniously missed the point.

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Originally Posted by RedCoKid

It's sad that Gamecube games need expensive preorder freebies/2-games-for-the-price-of-1 type of deals to generate decent sales.

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sure is, but hey, atleast it's working for them.

what's the last one they did?? Zelda?

what else have they done, in terms of pre-order freebies?

None that I can think of.

I'm planning on renting Twin Snakes at best (I don't have room or time for a series I'm not a total fan of), and even if it came with Substance, that doesn't make the deal seem any sweeter. I played MGS2 and hated it - so what would the extra incentive be in a MGS2 'freebie?'

All the same, people should be sold on a game first - getting one for extras or rumored bonuses is lame.

I could see them selling substance for $40 on the gamecube, but only after twin snakes is released.

No way in hell it will be a promotional freebie.

why not?

No, I got the point. But releasing it separately isn't as far fetched as you make it sound. That's all I'm saying.

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Originally Posted by TaekwondoNJ

No way in hell it will be a promotional freebie.

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They should. It would probably move a few of those stockpiled gamecubes.

I will be extremely shocked if they spend the time and money to port MGS2 over to GC to just give it away for free. Maybe theres a slight chance of this happening, but I wouldn't count on it. But there is absolutely no way they will port Substance and just give it away. The game came out last year (or was it even that long ago?), I see no reason why Nintendo, Silicon Knights, OR Konami (depending on who is getting the profits from all this, probably all 3) would just give away a title that could make them a decent amount of money. That being said, I think its highly unlikely MGS2 would be 50 dollars when it first comes out for GC. ESPECIALLY if its the original MGS2. I'd be surprised if they released Substance on GC for more than 30 bucks. But just giving the game away? You're gonna be sorely dissapointed if you think thats going to happen.

it wouldn't take much resources. it doesn't take much to port something to GameCube, especially when you consider that they already have the engine running on the system.

Well, MGS2 was built with the PS2 in mind. See how it turned out on Xbox (the more powerful system) for proof of how not-easily the engine is ported.

And while I'm sure there are similarities between the Twin Snakes engine and the one used in MGS2, I'm nearly positive they aren't the same thing. That said, I don't think it'd be a huge undertaking to get MGS2 running on the Cube, but I do think it'd be more than porting, say, Ocarina of Time to the GC.

I think the more telling sign is the fact that Konami sees fit to still sell MGS2: Substance for $40 on PS2 and $20 on Xbox, and the regular edition for $20 on PS2. If it was two years older, and out of print, then I think you might see it given away as a freebie (a la Zelda OoT).

But hey, despite my lack of faith in it happening, I'd be all for it. Prove me wrong Silicon Knights!

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Originally Posted by NoFace

Well, MGS2 was built with the PS2 in mind. See how it turned out on Xbox (the more powerful system) for proof of how not-easily the engine is ported.

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Substance on xbox was cleraly a lazy port that Konami didn't care about. they didn't even bother releasing it in japan.

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Originally Posted by NoFace

And while I'm sure there are similarities between the Twin Snakes engine and the one used in MGS2, I'm nearly positive they aren't the same thing.

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from what i remember, it's pretty much a suped up version of the MGS2 engine.

Konami has already charged full price for releasing the same game twice (3 if you count the xbox port). What's to stop them a third time?

well, like i said. aside from Kojima's input, and collecting publishing money (and whatever other money Nintendo gave them), Konami doesn't really have anything to do with this game. this game is all Nintendo's doing, im sure they're in charge of every last aspect of the game.

I probably wouldn't have released it in Japan on the Xbox if I was Konami, either. The 45 dollars spent on localization would be three times as much as the number of copies it would have sold.

Nintendo: You know that MGS game of yours we ported to our console?
Konami: ...yeah?
Nintendo: Well, we ported MGS2 to the same engine and are planning to give away a game you're still charging at least $20 for on PS2 and xbox.
Konami: f**k you.

It's still Konami's game and I seriously doubt Nintendo has the rights to MGS2 as well as 1. If they want to give it away for free, Nintendo would have to pay off Konami for it much like MS buying JSRF to release with the xbox and that's not something I can see Nintendo doing.

Yea, I honestly don't think Twin Snakes is going to need any extra help selling well on the Gamecube.

And I'm not just some crazy fanboy either...

*tries to cover sig with hands*

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Originally Posted by Ammadeau

If they want to give it away for free, Nintendo would have to pay off Konami for it much like MS buying JSRF to release with the xbox and that's not something I can see Nintendo doing.

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man, you almost depress me at times.

what the hell do you think Nintendo is doing right now? it's exactly like what Microsoft did with JSRF. no strings attached. Nintendo/Mircosoft payed for development, and Konami/Sega published and just made pure profits. that's probably not even including side money either.

Magicbox is saying that Silicon Knights stated that MGS2 will not be ported.

I'd much rather have the original Metal Gear included somewhere in the game, especially if you can upload it to your GBA.

Old thread was locked, so dakidski can't ask his question (and afraid to post a new thread).

I have no such reservations.

Who is this Raiden character and why am I not playing as snake. Is the whole game going to be like this!

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Originally Posted by kingoffighters

Old thread was locked, so dakidski can't ask his question (and afraid to post a new thread).

I have no such reservations.

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I unlocked the thread and merged this with it. And just for fun, I included Johnny Nighttrain's hysterical "Substance coming to Gamecube for free" thread as a bonus.

Now I have performance anxiety. Give me a second.

This thread lives on through your arms.

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Originally Posted by johnk_

why wouldn't they sell [Gamecube MGS2] seperately?

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Originally Posted by Johnny Nighttrain

do you really have to ask? look at it this way. why would they?

well, let's see...

it would compete with Twin Snakes. that right there already guarentees it won't happen. Nintendo doesn't release budget titles, and there's no way in hell they're gonna release a 2 year old game at full price. and the whole giving games away with pre-orders has worked very very well for them.

i don't see how you could even question that one. no way they're gonna release MGS2 for sale.

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Come on, it just makes sense, people!

Well, my question wasn't anything serious. I was just wondering if a vanilla MGS2 savegame worked on MGS2:Substance. (both ps2) It didn't. That clues me they are not completely identical, and some code was changed. So I was wondering what differences, contentwise, there was between the two versions?

I noticed that Snake can get a cold on the tanker chapter in Substance. I don't remember that from the regular edition. Also, wikipedia tells me that Substance "includes a new infrared effects for the thermal goggles and a new set of dog tags".

dakidski:

I have MGS2 regular on PS2 and Substance on Xbox. There really isn't much of anything different in the main game mode that I could tell. I'm pretty sure Snake could catch a cold in the original, but it didn't happen very often. The man difference is all the extra stuff they added, like Snake Tales and all the VR missions.

MGS2 runs worse on the xbox.

GohanX - ah ok, thanks. I also played the Xbox version back in the days, it was pretty good. I don't remember the slowdown people mention in some threads.

The ps2 version of Substance came with the 'Document of Metal Gear Solid 2'. It's quite stunning and I spend hours yesterday, just exploring the scenery in free 3d. Also, the ps2 version has a skateboarding game, which isn't on the Xbox version.

http://www.konami.jp/gs/game/mgs2_do...ish/index.html

This month is MGS month for me. So far I played MGS3, MGS2, Twin Snakes and now MGS2:Substance.

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Originally Posted by nameless_one

MGS2 runs worse on the xbox.

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Truth. Better played on PS2, but I can't force myself to spend the $5 on the PS2 version and complete all the shit again.

Dakidski-You're playing them out of order, WTF?

I played them the opposite way, good stuff, but I can't play MGS3 then go back to 2 or 1, I just want to keep playing MGS3 and slash some throats. If I haven't played it for a while, then Twin Snakes and 2 is all good fun.

I didn't plan on playing them all, it just happened. I keep finding myself, trying to use the camera from mgs3 in mgs2:s. I didn't like the throatslashing actually, I much prefer breaking their necks.

You guys should just grab each other's crotch and get it over with.

I'd much prefer to knock him down, get in a crawling position, crawl on top of him and wiggle the joystick like a madman.

C'mon, you know you've done that in the game at least once.

I will admit to no such thing.

This sucks. The old ranking website is no more. I wanted to type in my clear code. From an old thread, I can tell Bahn regged.

http://www.konamijpn.com/mgs2_sub/

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Originally Posted by dakidski

Well, my question wasn't anything serious. I was just wondering if a vanilla MGS2 savegame worked on MGS2:Substance. (both ps2) It didn't. That clues me they are not completely identical, and some code was changed. So I was wondering what differences, contentwise, there was between the two versions?

I noticed that Snake can get a cold on the tanker chapter in Substance. I don't remember that from the regular edition. Also, wikipedia tells me that Substance "includes a new infrared effects for the thermal goggles and a new set of dog tags".

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On top of my head:
* New infrared effect for the Thermal Goggles (they use actual heat vision instead of the red and redder effect used in MGS1)
* The FHM posters and magazines are replaced by ones from a different agency.
* E-Extreme difficulty setting.
*When you place the unconscious soldiers inside the lockers during the beginning of the Plant chapter, they remain unconscious until the elevator arrives. It doesn't happen that way in the original game.
* You can get a silencer for Snake's USP during the Tanker chapter (but only during subsequent playthroughs).
* A new cut scene which shows Raiden through the Big Shell's oil fence after Emma is stabbed by Vamp.
* You can choose between the 2001 and 2002 set of Dog Tags.
* Snake and Raiden will start wearing sunglasses during the third playthrough and every odd-numbered playthrough after that.

Most of these changes were actually made for the overseas versions of the original game before they made their way to the US with Substance.

All this talk actually makes me want to play MGS2s. But then, common sense prevails. :D

Johnny: thanks for the info.

I actually just started playing Sons of Liberty last weekend, only playing a half hour at a time. What an awesome game.

I just recently came across the soldier in the tanker that's patrolling while rocking out with headphones--so many little touches like this that give the game personality.

since were on the topic of MGS2, theyre making a digital graphic novel for 2 like they did for 1 on PSP. Difference is its through the eyes of snake.

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Originally Posted by MarkRyan

I actually just started playing Sons of Liberty last weekend, only playing a half hour at a time. What an awesome game.

I just recently came across the soldier in the tanker that's patrolling while rocking out with headphones--so many little touches like this that give the game personality.

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It is called "love". It is all those nifty little touches that make the game so splendid. It is one of those games that demands crazy amounts of dev time. There are just so many ways you can play this game. If I was stranded on a deserted island and only could choose 1 game, then MGS2:S would probably be it. European Extreme mode is insane, but the challenge is worth it.

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Originally Posted by B-Ri

since were on the topic of MGS2, theyre making a digital graphic novel for 2 like they did for 1 on PSP. Difference is its through the eyes of snake.

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For which platform?

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Originally Posted by dakidski

For which platform?

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PSP like the other one.