Run and guns

My current favorite is the Metal Slug series. It's an evolution over your typical contra/gunstar in the way that it favours reflexes over memorization. Basically, these games are to Contra as Cave's games are to R type. Also they have evolved scoring system, which makes these games a total bitch to master.
Plus they have some of the best art I've ever seen, everything from those zombies to those awesome slugs is so well animated it brings a tear to my eyes...
It's just too sad that MS4 blew large junks of ass.
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I've been digging me some Cannon Spike recently. Not the best game in the world, but I like it lots.

I meant side scrolling run n guns, like Contra and Gunstar.
Canon Spike still rules though.

Alien Soldier's my favorite. There's just alot too it, and it's poetry in motion. Gunstar is likewise a blast, though it's not as much of a play-for-score kind of game.

Metal Slug is definately great, though I feel like the series peaked at 2/X. And I still have a soft spot for Contra as well.

This is probably my second favorite genre. Some faves off the top of my head:

Contra series
Metal Slug series
Gunstar Heroes
Sunset Riders
Alien vs Predator
Top Hunter

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Originally posted by Frogacuda
Alien Soldier's my favorite. There's just alot too it, and it's poetry in motion. Gunstar is likewise a blast, though it's not as much of a play-for-score kind of game.

Metal Slug is definately great, though I feel like the series peaked at 2/X. And I still have a soft spot for Contra as well.

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This perfectly sums up my feelings on the genre.

Oh! In that case I'd have to say Contra: SS. I haven't played it in a while, but I love it none the less. :D

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Originally posted by Mr_Furious
Alien vs Predator

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Thats more of a "Walk and Punch".

In this genre I only truly love the first two NES Contra games, Contra III, and Gunstar. Games like Hard Corps and SS are OK, but lack the magic of the above titles.

Oddly, those four games are more than enough for me -- I almost never get sick of them.

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Originally posted by 88mph
Thats more of a "Walk and Punch".

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In Capcom's AvP? There's plenty of guns in there.

Gunners Heaven is as good as any in the genre, IMO. Wolf Fang is dope. Eleveator Action Returns is also crazy good.

Pa

*edit* why must I always misspell "elevator"? probably misspelled misspell too....

If we're including 3d stuff, Sin & Punishment is my favorite. Devastators and GI Joe were great too.

For traditional 2d ones, Gunstar Heroes is my favorite.

Alien vs Predator belongs squarely in the beatmup category, with games like D&D, Final Fight, Punisher, etc.

Yeah, I guess I'm stretching it but I do like avp :)

And who doesn't? :)

Pa

Target Earth was also an awesome run and gun. I'll never be able to beat that game.
Gunforce by Irem is also lots of fun.

Oh, I guess we could toss Cybernator in then too. Great game, stellar music.

But TE was better! Both of them are related arent they? And has any one played ASL2?
Batman and Robin and the turrican series were also good.

Well hey, I guess those Turricans fall into run n gun territory. And that means Hagana would too. I like Hagane alot because it is so innovative. For example, it actually scrolls from right to left. WHOAH!

Pa

Chelnov aka Atomic Runner. It's forced scrolling and prolly the only one I like.
MSX/3, Gunstar Heroes were fun too.

Run in Gun is getting into some broad territory. If you count Target Earth and Cybernator than you must count Metal Warriors and Blaster Master. Robocop may slip in there and Nam '75. Personally my faves are Contra: HC, Gunstar, Alien Soldier and the PC game by Bungie, Abuse.

Assault Suit Leynos 2 was kind of disappointing. It's a cliche now, but I think they went too far in the direction of flash over substance. There's a ton of sprite rotation and scaling, but the game isn't as fun as Valken/Cybernator or Leynos/TE. Plus, the game tends to keep the zoom set either too far in or too far out most of the time, so the game ends up looking pretty ugly a lot of the time, effects aside.

Some of my favorites in the genre are Gunstar Heroes, Contra 1-3, Metal Slug X (I haven't put enough time into MS1 or 3), and Alien Soldier. Oh, and while we're slightly expanding the definition, major mad props go to Wild Guns (Natsume rocks the house!) and Sin & Punishment.

My all time favorites would have to be Contra 3 and Metal Slug 1 I guess. Contra: SS and Hard Corps are fantastic as well. The other Metal Slugs are good but I prefer the orginal over all the others. Gunstar is great but I never got into as much as Contra 3 I guess.

I change my vote to Sin & Punishment. :D

But that doesnt count either! It's more of a space harriers kinda thing

S&P is NOTHING like Space Harriers.

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Originally posted by Clash_Master
S&P is NOTHING like Space Harriers.

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I disagree. I think they're comfortably in the same genre. They're both forward scrolling rail shooters.

Except for the semi sidescrolling levels, and all the stationarie standing parts of the games. Oh and the sword attacks, jumping and such.

i love metal slug 3 and i think it's the peak of the series, but I have to disagree with the first topic post regarding contra games in general..

with the exception of this latest PS2 blaspheme, the contra games have been more reflexes than memorization.. and contra 3 is legendary in my book..

that is all. :)

Contra: HC superiority over AW's is the closest it's ever come to a fact.:)

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Originally posted by Clash_Master
Except for the semi sidescrolling levels, and all the stationarie standing parts of the games. Oh and the sword attacks, jumping and such.

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I never said it was a clone, just a derivative.

My favorite would be Metal Slug.

MS3 is probably the peak of the series. The nadir would have to be MS2 (all that slowdown... blech). While MS3 has some slowdown, it's about on a Pulstar level (tolerable).

Slashing the enemies up close adds to it somewhat. You can do it to conserve ammo or get a few more points than you would for shooting an enemy.

The new vehicles jazz it up some also.

While I can see why a lot of people hate it, I actually think the Drop Shot is good to have in some places.

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Originally posted by gameoverDude

While I can see why a lot of people hate it, I actually think the Drop Shot is good to have in some places.

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Never! I just love the way it completely bounces OVER enemies. Anyway, I desperately need to check out Gunners Heaven in the futute. Not to mention Gunstar Heroes. I think I put GH off for at least three years or so now.

am i the only person here that really loves Shock Troopers?

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Originally posted by Click_Stick
Never! Not to mention Gunstar Heroes. I think I put GH off for at lease three years or so now.

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:eek: I'm shocked!

I'm a big fan of Alien Soldier and Metal Slug 1. Personally I think the SLug games are better with just the Slug, the other vechicles weren't that great.

Metalgun Slinger on GBA would probably fall into this category. Fun game, only wish the acrobat moves were actually useful. *-neo

I like the Metal Slug games well enough, although if we can get MS3 on PS2 in the US I'll finally get a crack at playing one on a console that can handle it right, but the game that gets my vote is Rolling Thunder. You have no idea how many quarters of mine that thing ate back in the day, and if Rolling Thunder 2 had ever hit an arcade I'd seen I'd have doubled my quarter output.

Mmm... Rolling Thunder...

James

I'd have to say either Contra III or Metal Slug 3 are my favourites.

rolling thunder was kickass...

though it was more like classic shinobi than what i would call run and gun..

good call though, regardless.

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Originally posted by xS
But that doesnt count either! It's more of a space harriers kinda thing

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Like Hell! You run, and you have a gun! Just like the title of this thread says, damnit!

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Originally posted by Click_Stick
Never! I just love the way it completely bounces OVER enemies. Anyway, I desperately need to check out Gunners Heaven in the futute. Not to mention Gunstar Heroes. I think I put GH off for at least three years or so now.

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I agree about the Drop Shot's bounce... but if you're in the right spot, it can take out enemies as you're ducking- a good way to avoid the dreaded Rolling Thunder style "Prairie Dog" death.

I've gotta mention Demon Front. I promised some pic from an eariler thread about a week ago, but I'll link them here.

You can find them on my sucky web page by clicking on the link in my sig. Look for the Demon Front link there. I apologize to those with a dial up connection.

As for the game, it bears an uncanny resemblence to the Metal Slug series. It really look like it could be a MS sequel.

Demon Front is very fun to play, and looks fantastic. But I have to give the edge to Metal Slug 3 as the better game. MS3 is perfection, Demon Front is very close. Oh so close.

http://www.angelfire.com/ct3/jefmcctestpage/

Not sure if this counts but Alien 3 on the snes was really fun. Now I wouldn't call it an arcadey run and gun but you do have a machine gun, grenade launcher and lots of aliens attacking you in various forms. Huggers, adults, those shorter ones, the red ones which climb walls etc

There WAS an aliens arcade game where you are playing as ripley and used mainly weapons (not close hand to hand combat weapons) but I still wouldn't call it strictly run and gun in the way contra and slug are.

http://images.webmagic.com/klov.com/.../A/wAliens.png http://images.webmagic.com/klov.com/.../A/xAliens.png
http://images.webmagic.com/klov.com/.../A/yAliens.png http://images.webmagic.com/klov.com/.../A/vAliens.png

Anyway I really loved the SNES alien 3 game (i think acclaim/probe did it) because the weapons felt like real weapons and the aliens actually had a chance at killing you if you weren't paying attention (they would rush at you from offscreen at fast speed) and the missions made sense (not just running from left to right but actually sealing up doors and having to travel through to get to rooms where you are required to fix stuff and find parts to get things working)

Whenever you fired off a grenade it would bounce off the ground realistically and off walls so um yeah the feel of the weapons was the main attraction for me. Also knowing the map was handy and you could save time (you had to remember where you resupplies of weapons were if you were going to run out, always wondering if you have enough ammo to survive long enough to complete a mission). You could climb up the sides of walls, crawl into small spaces, cling to the ceiling to get to the other platform.

It would be good if they made a game like that again.
Id still have to say Mslug is the king though. Along with good gameplay it has the right pace for an arcade game and great animation and attention to detail as well as being humourous.

Guess my favorite :).

Was the alien 3 game on snes the same as the genesis one? I think there ma have been some differences but I really like the genesis game. Dunno if that's a run and gun game though because it had find the key unlock the door kinda gameplay (a la ZIllion).

JeffmcC, Demon Front looks interesting--did you take thos pics off the TV?

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Originally posted by Green
Guess my favorite :).

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Cyber Lip :p

You guys hear bout the upcoming Majesco game Blowout?

Not only is it a side scrolling Contra clone but it will also have a level editor and online components. Could be something worth paying attention to.

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Originally posted by Chojin
You guys hear bout the upcoming Majesco game Blowout?

Not only is it a side scrolling Contra clone but it will also have a level editor and online components. Could be something worth paying attention to.

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Sounds cool. I wonder if it can top the eternal splendor of Abuse:

http://www.bungie.com/products/abuse/abuse.htm

Good shit, Jef. How would you say Demon Front compares to MS [say MSX or MS3] difficulty-wise?

Great screens, Jef. I'd love to hear any gameplay impressions if you get a chance.

Here 2 more games, no one seems to mention:

Appocalypse and One - Great PSX run and gun action games. Lots of action, cool weapons and stages.

Shock Troopers 1&2 dont get mentioned very often and thats too bad, since they are pretty cool and fun games.

The game (Demon Front) is very similar to Metal Slug, but there are some significant differences.

There are no grenade type weapons. Instead, what you have is that little friend who follows you around. By holding down the fire button (ala R-Type) you charge up the little guys attack and let it rip. Each of the four friends is assigned to a character, so there's no swapping. The different types of friends are, fire, water, electric, and I guess wind? (looks like boomerangs).

With the push of the C button, your friend will transform into a shield and protect you. However, it will wear down after a few hits. This comes in handy in a few spots that are really busy, when you just need to jump into the middle of things and kick ass.
Pressing the C button again will bring back your little friend.

Perhaps the biggest difference comes in the form of the power up system. Your normal gun and your helper’s attack can be permanently powered up for the duration of the game, until you stop playing. So it carries over with continues. Each time you do a close attack, (punching, ect) a meter goes up. Each time the meter gets filled, you go up a level. This makes your normal gun bigger and changes the appearance of your helper a little each time. It also increases the attack of your friend.

Also there is a blue meter that goes up with each attack from your elemental friend. I’m not sure what this does. I suspect it just acts in the same way as the other meter, but I can’t be sure.

I would have preferred a grenade type weapon, but that might have thrown off the balance of the power up system. Actually, having the system this way provides a unique incentive to power up your attacks. And it makes for some hectic game play.

Demon Front scrolls much smoother than Metal Slug. If you ever played MS, then you know what I mean. As beautiful as MS is, there is no denying that it has jerky scrolling. The silky smooth scrolling in DF, to me, gives the game better control. Also, the jumping is not as floaty as MS. I’m not saying that Metal Slug has bad control, far from it. But I think in Demon Front it’s just a little bit easier to get your sprite to do what you want.

Demon Front also allows you to sprout wings and get a really long jump in. A double tap on the jump button will make your wings come out. I’m not sure how this fits in to the story of the game, but who cares.

As for the different weapons, Demon Front has some cool stuff. Instead of a flamethrower like Metal Slug, DF gives us an Ice Thrower. Graphically, this gun is really cool (pun!). It is very well animated and encloses the target in an ice block. For all intents though, this is the same weapon as the flamethrower from MS, same range and damage.

The shotgun is also very similar to the one in MS. Not really much to say about it, only that it makes a HUGE blast when you fire it. Animated to perfection.

There is an electric gun that just sucks. With it, you shoot a big ball of electricity. Upon impact, it splits up into four smaller balls that spread out diagonally. This weapon fires slow and doesn’t seem to do much damage.

My favorite weapon in the game is the canister gun. If you’ve played the old Konami hit Super Contra at the arcades, (or MAME) then you might know what I am talking about. This gun fires a little rotating canister and splits into more, smaller, canisters upon impact. The gun is strong and visually appealing to use. All the little explosions this gun makes just look awesome.

You do have a machine gun power up that's almost identical to the one in MS, however in DF, you cannot shoot diagonally whatsoever. IN MS, you can fake it, not so in DF.

Both games allow you to shoot up, down and all around. Though as I mentioned, the machine gun has a more limited range in Demon Front.

There are no vehicles to use in Demon Front. I’m kind of surprised at this, seeing as how Demon Front borrows so much from Metal Slug. I guess they didn’t want it TOO similar.

One last thing, Deomn Front supports 4 player simultaneous play. You would need another PGM system and another cab to do it, but it's worth mentioning.

Overall, I would say the game play is spot on. And it should be, considering that Metal Slug is basically being copied here.

Which is better? Metal Slug wins out by a hair. It wins for the better weapons, vehicles, and bosses.

Both are fun as sex to play, but if I was forced to choose, MS would get the nod.

I would say DF is as good as the first Metal Slug. Slug x and 3 are better. Metal Slug 3 is still tops in this genre, in my opinion. Perfection.

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Originally posted by Click_Stick
Good shit, Jef. How would you say Demon Front compares to MS [say MSX or MS3] difficulty-wise?

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Difficulty wise? I think Slug 3 is harder.

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Originally posted by soundwave
Was the alien 3 game on snes the same as the genesis one? I think there ma have been some differences but I really like the genesis game. Dunno if that's a run and gun game though because it had find the key unlock the door kinda gameplay (a la ZIllion).

JeffmcC, Demon Front looks interesting--did you take thos pics off the TV?


Cyber Lip :p

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Screens are from my JAMMA cab. As you can see, in some of the pics you can see the scan lines. I didn't get around to fixing them all, that's why some look cleaner than others.

And Cyber Lip rocks!

Great summary there, Jef. I learned more from you alone than from everywhere else combined.

Desperately hoping the price will drop a few dollars over time...

I'm not sure if it came out here, but Metal Gunslinger for GBA is a pretty fucking awesome game. Pretty spiffy game I came across, and reminds me of megaman and contra.

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Originally posted by soundwave
Was the alien 3 game on snes the same as the genesis one? I think there ma have been some differences but I really like the genesis game. Dunno if that's a run and gun game though because it had find the key unlock the door kinda gameplay (a la ZIllion).

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The SNES game is not the same... Probe did develop it as well as the Genesis one, however.

Thanks for those impressions Jef, that was great. I like hearing that the scrolling and jumping are better than in Metal Slug.

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Originally posted by JefmcC
Demon Front scrolls much smoother than Metal Slug. If you ever played MS, then you know what I mean. As beautiful as MS is, there is no denying that it has jerky scrolling. The silky smooth scrolling in DF, to me, gives the game

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Heh, I was beginning to wonder if I was the only person who noticed it. Whenever I tried to bring it up in the past, people didn't seem to have any idea as to what I was talking about. Differing framerates in 3D games is excusable, but I'm bothered when a 2D game runs less than 60fps. It doesn't affect my enjoyment of Metal Slug games at all, just a nagging issue I'd love to see fixed in the series (or future ports).

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Originally posted by JefmcC
Also, the jumping is not as floaty as MS. I’m not saying that Metal Slug has bad control, far from it. But I think in Demon Front it’s just a little bit easier to get your sprite to do what you want.

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That's good to know also. :)

Great writeup on the game, though. I'd love to play it someday.