I make what sound easy? I offered no solutions.
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I make what sound easy? I offered no solutions.
I think that the problem in this thread is that a lot of the posters here simply have no idea what life and politics is like outside of the US or how other governments work... I am not saying that to be insulting, I assure you! The US gov't woks hard to keep the people from knowing or caring about the rest of the world for just that reason¹. For the powers that be in the US notions of univesal health care, socialism, just society, and equality are tantamount to the plague. But please do yourselves a favour and actually learn about how other societies work. That does not mean read what Time magazine or some right wing political essay says about them eithe. It means that you should examine a wide variety of credible sources. Have an open mind and look at ways you can improve your own country, instead of defending the obscene.
Fo example, read about counties like Norway, Sweden, Canada, Germany, Japan and so on and see how the government works for the people. Yes, people pay high taxes but they get so much more. Personally, I love paying higher taxes here in Canada because I see the benefit. In the US it made me ill to know where the money I was paying was going (and not going). The incentive fo things like puclc health care and education is not accumulating profits for the elites, but to make it available to as many people as possible. That's good!
You can try to debunk this with as much American propaganda as you'd like but the very simple fact of the matter is that it works and that people are happier and better off because of it.
Plus, this illusion some of you guys have of the "American dream" is exactly what pacifies Americans despite the obvious statistics. 99% of the wealth in the US is in the hands of 1% of the population. There are plenty of well to do people but they are dwarfed by the poor. There is not enough opportunity fo them no matter how hard they work. Education is prohibitively expensive. Universal health care does not exist. There is no safety net to help those who have experienced misfortune which will help them suvive and get back on their feet. There are tonnes of exceptions (like Kidnemo) but that's the sad reality for far too many of the people and it does not have to be that way if the US as a country was not run by the elites for the elites.
Personally, I think everyone deserves a chance for a good life. Everyone deserves a right to meet their potential and live well. I don't believe in a government that is set up fo the sole pupose of greed and domination which manipulates it's own people and abuses the third world. I believe in socialism. I believe in equality of opportunity. In fairness of health care. I believe in equal access for education. I believe that the welfare of the whole of society is far more impotant than the miniscule chance that someone could amass unholy amounts of wealth (aka the "American Dream"). I believe in govenmental stuctures where the people have a right to proportional representation and can reasonably work change and influence policies. Etc Etc Etc.
No country in the world is perfect, of course. Every place has it's problems. But some places, like the US, have far more than others. Unlike the US, there are many counties who provide so much more for their people though. All the people, and the people are happier and have a greater quality of life. (To say nothing of the fact that their govenments are held accountable fo their actions as well)
I believe that the all people (especially American people, good people!) deserve these things as well. It is my great hope that some of these things will actually come to my former home in the future, as bleak as the odds may seem right now and in spite of people like Jimmy Carter.
Footnote:
¹ = The US has always been ambivalent about European unification. It has obvious advantages for US economic and strategic power, but there has always been concern that Europe might move towards an independent course. Furthermore, the social market system in Europe has always been regarded as a threat, rather in the way that Canada's health care system has been feared: these are "viruses" that might "infect" the US population, to borrow the terminology of US planners when they moved to crush independent social and economic development throughout the third world. These concerns have motivated US policies towards Europe (and Japan, and elsewhere) since World War II, constantly taking new forms. They were, for example, expressed by Henry Kissinger in his "Year of Europe" address in 1973, when he instructed Europe that it had only "regional responsibilities" within an "overall framework of order" managed by the US government. NATO was conceived, in part, as a way to ensure US control over Europe -- not without support from sectors of European elites, who despise the social market system, and fear European independence, for much the same reasons as their counterparts here. The US is strongly in favor of the accession of the Eastern European countries to the European Union for these reasons. Washington expects to have enough control over them so that they will dilute tendencies towards independence in Europe. And there is quite unconcealed exultation that their reservoir of cheap and easily exploited labor will undermine the European welfare state and the rights of working people, and will drive Europe to the US model of low wages, high workload, limited benefits and job security, high concentration of wealth -- and general economic performance pretty similar to Europe's by most measures. And that has obvious appeal to the corporate sector in Europe as well. (Noam Chomsky)
None of my posts have footnotes :(
Thats becouse you suck.
On my next birthday when I blow out the candles I'm going to be wishing for you and your family to die Almaci.
As much as I'm trying to believe you, I have a hard time believing that anyone working a minimum of three jobs, even below minimum wage, couldn't get out of the slums. And I have a hard time believing that these people work not only one, but 3-4 jobs whose employers are breaking the law in wages.Quote:
Originally posted by spacecowboy
That is what most want out of life. Problem is that there are still many who can't even manage that and it isn't their fault. Their are people living in slums, working 3-4 jobs at less than minimum wage. They have no time to look after their kids who then become trouble makers. Those people aren't living any dreams, just one big nightmare.
As it is, McDonald's/Wal Mart are at the bottom of the work chain and they often pay more than minimum wage. So, I apologize if what you say is true, but I find it so unbelieveable that I just cannot possibly accept it.
There you go again, SC.Quote:
So people aren't allowed to live a healthy life?
I did not imply nor did I say that people are not "allowed" to a healthy life. I said, people do not have a right to a healthy life. It is not an inalienable right. If I wanted health insurance and I wanted to go to the doctor for monthly checkups, I could. If I wanted to do it, I'd sign up for insurance and pay for it.
Do you enjoy twisting words? I never said people are not "allowed" to be productive. Everyone should be productive.Quote:
People aren't allowed to be a productive part of society?
No, I'm saying that people have a choice for benefits.Quote:
By your statement, you make the U.S. sound like some sort of country club where only those with the means to make it are allowed these benefits.
I believe they have an obligation to protect us and our rights.Quote:
I believe our government by the people for the people has an obligation to look after every one of its' citizens.
What city are you in? I almost lopped a finger off and they took me right in.Quote:
Yes I have. They wouldn't admit me unless I had insurance verification, which I made up in order to get treatment.
I said when ours is worse. It's still the best.Quote:
Last time I checked our economy wasn't fairing all that well.
We've been doing this for years and our schools have gotten only worse. The education problem is like a fire and throwing more money on it may smother it for a minute or two but in the end, the fire will just get bigger. There is a difference between fixing a problem and throwing money at it.Quote:
The only way to make public schools shape up is to better fund them.
Well, that's nice of you, but I wouldn't. If someone needs my help, they can ask me. I'm not going to have the government rob me of the money I worked for so that someone else gets all of the benefits.Quote:
I'd gladly pay extra tax for all these benefits. Even for you, Carter.
And by your own admission right here, I did not say that those in poverty should leave this country.Quote:
My statement:
This is an illusion. How about all the people that the American Dream doesn't help?
Your response:
Helps me perfectly, thank you. If it's not working for someone else, they should try another country. America is the easiest to make a good living in.
Fact: During Reagan's administration every income bracket experience growth and the economy grew at a rate unseen since the administration of John F. Kennedy.Quote:
Yes I have lived in poverty for most of my life. Only until I went to college did things begin to turn around for me. My parents had money when I was a kid. But when Reagan fucked up our economy, both of my parents lost everything.
I hate to sound so jaded. I honestly, really do. But it was your sister's choice to become a junkie. Nobody else's.Quote:
Our house, money, everything gone. Of course, my parents divorced and my family has never been the same. My mother still lives in gross poverty and it kills me that I can't help her because I can barely support myself. My father went back to his country and was able to recover and come back to the U.S. But he is by no means well-off. So the system destroyed my family. Granted my parents aren't exactly the best for each other, we had a good life. My sister is a junkie who doesn't have a place to live. Where's her American Dream?
An airplane crashes tomorrow. Along with all of airplane crashes beforehand, this adds up to be a huge number. Now, according to your logic, despite the facts that airline travel is safer than car travel, we should issue a statement ignoring the facts and state because of this crash and the ones before it, airline travel isn't safe.Quote:
She got kicked off welfare, even though she works two jobs, which she has both recently lost. But that is just my family. We don't have it as bad as a whole swath of other American citizens. Where is their dream? How about their kids who are born in poverty and squalor? When everyone has an equal opportunity to make a decent life for themselves then I'll agree with you. I'm not talking about equal outcome. But everyone deserves the opportunity to at least have the good shot at it.
I don't buy it. The facts prove that America is the easiest place to make a living in. The facts and statistics prove it.
I've met many people who're in the poverty level. And they don't bitch about America, they don't piss and moan about how the American Dream isn't working for them and they sure as hell don't blame the "system" for their problems.
My dad came from a dirt poor family. They were so poor that the kids were kicked out at the age of 16. Just ten years ago, Dad made only $5000 for the entire family. The entire family. If someone is working 3-4 jobs, even below minimum wage, there is no way in heck that they made less than $5000 in one year. If you take two full time jobs and work them a year at $1 an hour, you get at least $4160.
The point is, my Dad now has his own company. He is very well off right now. He never ever felt the need to blame someone or something else for his problems.
Blaming people gets you nowhere.
Nice footnote, sggg. Chomsky is a respected and influential linguist, which is where I mostly know him from. That article was an interesting read.
Thing is, unlike me youre probably not even joking.Quote:
Originally posted by Kidnemo
On my next birthday when I blow out the candles I'm going to be wishing for you and your family to die Almaci.
Why would you say that? Have I ever posted anything in the past (or this thread) to make you think that way?Quote:
Originally posted by Almaci
Thing is, unlike me youre probably not even joking.
Or are you being teh funny now too?
(For those people sitting in the cheap seats I was joking...you guys in these political threads are to serious, I'll be over in Game Discussion if you need me :/ )
Agreed. We political warriors get too serious, but it happens.Quote:
Originally posted by Kidnemo
...you guys in these political threads are to serious...
I mean nothing personal against anyone I'm in discussion with. I just join in because ... I don't know why. It's fun, I suppose. Sharpens my wits and beliefs, hopefully.