Halo

To start off I'd like to say that Halo is a great game, but to call it the "Best game ever," is ludicrous. Starting off with single player, yeah, it has its "epic" moments, but most of the time it's just wading through monotonous identical hallways and mindless shooting. Multiplayer is great, nothing much I can say there.

Two co-worker buddies of mine, whom which I will call Cain and Steve, both got Xboxes. Naturally, they had heard of Halo and how great it was supposed to be. So they both got it back in December. Now, all I hear is how Halo is the greatest game ever, every time I see them. Whenever I call them on the phone, they're playing Halo. When I find out they're at ones house, they're playing Halo. Whenever we're together for any reason they're talking about how "they (Cain and Steve) were kicking covenant ass" and such.

Cain picked me up today and we went over to Electronics Boutique. I was picking up Zone of the Enders 2 pre-order and he was going to reserve Halo 2. *sigh* On the way back the subject of Halo came up again...:mad:

Cain: The only game that will be better than Halo is Halo 2.
Me: There are plenty of other games better than Halo.
Cain: WWWWWWWWWHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAATTTTTTTT?
Me: Yes. I can name a couple.
Cain: Name one.
Me: Chrono Trigger.
Cain: WTF is that?
Me: "..."
Me: It's a game for Super Nintendo.
Cain: No way. The graphics suck.
Me: A game doesn't need "awesome" graphics to be good.
Cain: "How could you not want good graphics? It makes the game more real-er." (Yes, he said "more real-er")
Me: "..."
Cain: Ok, name a game between GameCube, Xbox, and PS2 that is better than Halo.
Me: You mean what I like more...ok. Final Fantasy X, Metroid Prime, and Jet Set Radio Future.
Cain: JSRF is gay!

I then managed to change the subject. I couldn't take it anymore. I just want to say that I like everyone here at TNL. We all have are likes and dislikes, and that's fine with me. At least you all know what Chrono Trigger is. :)

Well, the way I see it, at least Halo was a well made game through and through. It culd be a lot worse, they could be talking about MK Deadly Allaince all day or something.

You need new friends.

--Scourge .

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Originally posted by Shinobi128
Cain: JSRF is gay!

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The man speaks the truth.

Anyway, here's the thing... I remember when I used to do that... someone would mention something game-related, and you should "psshaw" in their face and throw it back at them and tell them basically their opinion is shit and yours is better because you named some game that's nearly a decade old and you're the badass hardcore with a capital CORE and they're just dumb shit casual gamers. It accomplishes nothing except for you looking like an elitist snob.

Well, maybe that's not what you thought what you were doing, but that's definitely what they think you're doing. You're undermining their opinion. You're making them sound like idiots. They enjoy what they enjoy... what's the big deal?

Halo is not the best game ever, but remember Goldeneye? That game came out in 1997, and it caught on so much not because of the singleplayer (which was okay but nothing great), but because of the multiplayer, which was fucking tight at the time.

Halo's single-player is certainly very good, even great, but I can think of many FPS titles with better single-player. But it's multiplayer is fucking awesome, no doubt about it... its multiplayer is what has caught on. It's Goldeneye for the next generation. Just like Goldeneye get-togethers were great with some friends and some beer... now, instead of 007 its Halo. And, well... if you enjoyed 007 a lot for its multiplayer, who are you to fault someone who likes Halo for the same reason?

I don't want to sound anti X-box, but don't they seem to gather the most fans like this?

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Originally posted by Shakey
I don't want to sound anti X-box, but don't they seem to gather the most fans like this?

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You sounded anti Xbox.

--Scourge .

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Originally posted by Shakey
I don't want to sound anti X-box, but don't they seem to gather the most fans like this?

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No, there are idiots playing every console.

-Kevin

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Originally posted by Shinobi128
I just want to say that I like everyone here at TNL. We all have are likes and dislikes, and that's fine with me. At least you all know what Chrono Trigger is. :)

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I think this should be the new TNL slogan.
Well said.

All the systems have stupid fans and their claims--on the ps2 front GTA is not the best game ever and on the Cube, Metroid Prime is amazing but where's the replay value? I haven't picked it up since I beat it. Halo I've beaten several times + multiplayer.

Halo is great but it could have been even better. One could say it is the best console FPS ever or even the best co-op FPS ever--best game is a bit of a stretch. I just remember spending hours in co-op on Legendary trying to steal two banshees. There are several of these moments in Halo where you can attain pure gaming Nirvana where everything clicks.

I agree, that should be our official slogan:

"TNL: We know what Chrono Trigger is."

JSRF and Chrono Trigger are both rather gay, really.

Halo is capital.

"They're everywhere!"
"Not you again!"
"Watch out! A bomb!"
"Go away!"

Those little Covenant guys are so cute.

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Originally posted by diffusionx
The man speaks the truth.

Anyway, here's the thing... I remember when I used to do that... someone would mention something game-related, and you should "psshaw" in their face and throw it back at them and tell them basically their opinion is shit and yours is better because you named some game that's nearly a decade old and you're the badass hardcore with a capital CORE and they're just dumb shit casual gamers. It accomplishes nothing except for you looking like an elitist snob.

Well, maybe that's not what you thought what you were doing, but that's definitely what they think you're doing. You're undermining their opinion. You're making them sound like idiots. They enjoy what they enjoy... what's the big deal?

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Do you realize that you are still doing that here, but now you are better than all the "hardcore fans" because you see past all that elitist snob stuff. You constantly feel the need to call everyone on it, which means you didn't change, you just found someone else to be better than.


JM

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Originally posted by JM
Do you realize that you are still doing that here, but now you are better than all the "hardcore fans" because you see past all that elitist snob stuff. You constantly feel the need to call everyone on it, which means you didn't change, you just found someone else to be better than.


JM

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Agreed.

We're a dying breed that's being overpowered by the "new target audience". At least we can still appreciate the goodness of yester year.

If Halo was the decade old Super Nintendo game and Chrono Trigger was the brand new Xbox game, I bet the title of this thread would be "Chrono Trigger".

<Halo definately is not the best game ever.

I will say on a console I have never gone through so much effort to set up four xboxes and four tv's only to get mad and lose after an eight hour caputure the flag section and call it the best time I've ever had playing games with other people.

I still wouldn't call it the best game of all time, but under the right circumstances I could certainly see how someone else could.>


-actually YAWA, just too lazy to log out.

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Originally posted by Scourge
You need new friends.

--Scourge .

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Seriously, you're too old to be hanging around the elelmentry school like that.

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Originally posted by Shinobi128
At least you all know what Chrono Trigger is. :)

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What's Chrono Trigger?

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Originally posted by Shinobi128
At least you all know what Chrono Trigger is. :)

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Most people here know what Rakugaki Showtime is.

That's kinda what I like about this place. Most other boards I go people either think I'm being an elitist snob for talking about games they haven't heard of, or they think I'm like the oracle of game trivia, or some combination of the two. Here I'm just another jackass gamer, and I can actually talk about these games and get a real response.

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Originally posted by Frogacuda
Most people here know what Rakugaki Showtime is.

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Eh, it's just a rip-off of a real man's game- POY POY!! :)

I can't believe there isn't a Poy Poy appreciation thread.

Rakugaki Showtime is in the newest issue of Stuff magazine. It is the "Crap game nobody has ever heard of before" section or something. They just make fun of it for looking the way it does. Pretty sad.

JM

Halo is a decent FPS that is unspectacular in almost every way save sticky grenades and vehicles. It has its moments in singleplayer (I can only think of one, but there might be another I'm forgetting) while multiplayer is decent but has highly abusable flaws, more bad maps then good ones, and a few personal gripes here and there that don't make it very fun.

Although from the sample conversation you gave, they seem to be pure graphic whores that like to watch things die. For that, I recommend you tell them to keep an eye out in case Unreal 2 hits consoles, as it's basically Halo with a better story, better weapons, better graphics, and more interesting areas.

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If Halo was the decade old Super Nintendo game and Chrono Trigger was the brand new Xbox game, I bet the title of this thread would be "Chrono Trigger".

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But Halo isn't new and Chrono Trigger has stood the test of time.

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No, there are idiots playing every console.

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Too true.

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And, well... if you enjoyed 007 a lot for its multiplayer, who are you to fault someone who likes Halo for the same reason?

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What about those of us who thought Goldeneye was also amazingly unspectacular? (Actually, I don't like it in the slightest, but whatever.)

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That's kinda what I like about this place. Most other boards I go people either think I'm being an elitist snob for talking about games they haven't heard of, or they think I'm like the oracle of game trivia, or some combination of the two. Here I'm just another jackass gamer, and I can actually talk about these games and get a real response.

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Sometimes you wanna go....where everybody is a nerd too :)

As for Halo? I still don't get it. Give me Quake anyday. Yeah, no number on that. Give me QUAKE. Balanced weapons, no dealing with stupid tanks and crap, great physics, genius map design and spot on controls. No having to deal with some crappy console controller because they do NOT work for FPS games unless it's called the N64 controller, and to get that to work you had to really screw up your fingers.

Yes, Halo is the new "I know nothing about gaming" best game ever. Just like Goldeneye was, just like Mortal Kombat was and just like Grand Theft Auto 3+ is.

I think that Shinobis' friends would not play another game even If the 5th level contained free tickets to heaven. Sure, Shinobi may have mentioned a 10 yr old game as his example of a good game, but at least he isnt playing only one game and saying its bigger than Jesus or somethin'. In this day and age If you watched only Die Hard and said that it was the best movie evar; as well as calling something like Spiderman crap; then people would swear that the nice doctors with white coats were coming to take you away.

Run on sentance counter
<45 Rush!>

Do I like Halo
Yes.
Do I think that its the best game evar?
Close, but not teh best evar.
Would I give another game a chance?
Yes, and you wouldnt have to put it in a Halo box to get me to play it.

your friends make me laugh. Tell them they are the sad representation of what being a casual gamer is all about. :D

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Originally posted by JM
Do you realize that you are still doing that here, but now you are better than all the "hardcore fans" because you see past all that elitist snob stuff. You constantly feel the need to call everyone on it, which means you didn't change, you just found someone else to be better than.


JM

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Uhh no. I was saying that if the dude fucking enjoys Halo, let him enjoy Halo. If he thinks Bebe's Kids for the SNES is the best game ever, then so be it. It doesn't matter. Calling him out and then trying to make him look like a fool by naming some hardCORE old-school game does not make you friends. I happen to think CTHD is one of the best films ever made, if I tell someone and then they throw it in my face and act all smart and elitist film-snobby about it about that movie is crap and this and that is better... then I probably wont talk to them about movies ever again. And therein lies my point.

Yes maybe you think that I was trying to call out Shinobi and make him look like an ass, but that really wasn't my intention. Maybe, just maybe, I was just trying to let him know what he may be doing as I read the convo he had with his friend? Thats really all I was trying to do.

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Originally posted by MechDeus
Halo is a decent FPS that is unspectacular in almost every way save sticky grenades and vehicles. It has its moments in singleplayer (I can only think of one, but there might be another I'm forgetting) while multiplayer is decent but has highly abusable flaws, more bad maps then good ones, and a few personal gripes here and there that don't make it very fun.

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thats pretty much how i feel right there

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Originally posted by diffusionx
I happen to think CTHD is one of the best films ever made, if I tell someone and then they throw it in my face and act all smart and elitist film-snobby about it about that movie is crap and this and that is better... then I probably wont talk to them about movies ever again. And therein lies my point.

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But isn't that exactly what his friends are doing? Since the story is coming from Shinobi it has a very good chance at being biased in his favor (sorry, Shinobi) but if what he says is true then shouldn't you be labelled his friends as stuck-up elitists? You don't have to know the "originals" for any topic to act as one of those, after all.

And while I could be wrong here, I think JM's comment was more to your posts in general, not just this specific one.

Halo = fun. That's why.

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Originally posted by Sl1p
Sometimes you wanna go....where everybody is a nerd too :)

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Exactly. I'm not too proud to admit that's basically it.

Speak for yourself.

I'm a nerd. Nerds are cute.

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Originally posted by diffusionx
Anyway, here's the thing... I remember when I used to do that... someone would mention something game-related, and you should "psshaw" in their face and throw it back at them and tell them basically their opinion is shit and yours is better because you named some game that's nearly a decade old and you're the badass hardcore with a capital CORE and they're just dumb shit casual gamers. It accomplishes nothing except for you looking like an elitist snob.

Well, maybe that's not what you thought what you were doing, but that's definitely what they think you're doing. You're undermining their opinion. You're making them sound like idiots. They enjoy what they enjoy... what's the big deal?

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I could've named a bunch of other games that I like more than Halo, Chrono Trigger was simply the first one to come out of my mouth. Now, how different would your response have been have I responded to Cain with "I like Final Fantasy X more than Halo." Surely Cain or any Joe Gamer has heard of Final Fantasy X, or the name "Final Fantasy" for the matter.

As for you not liking JSRF, that's fine with me. :) I love it.

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Originally posted by omfgninjas
JSRF and Chrono Trigger are both rather gay, really.

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I respect your opinion, even though it's wrong. ;)

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Originally posted by Mr_Furious
We're a dying breed that's being overpowered by the "new target audience". At least we can still appreciate the goodness of yester year.

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Sad but true. :(

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Originally posted by Tyler_Durden
If Halo was the decade old Super Nintendo game and Chrono Trigger was the brand new Xbox game, I bet the title of this thread would be "Chrono Trigger".

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Like I said with diffusionx, what if I had said Final Fantasy X, Super Smash Bros., or Xenosaga?

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Originally posted by Sl1p
Yes, Halo is the new "I know nothing about gaming" best game ever. Just like Goldeneye was, just like Mortal Kombat was and just like Grand Theft Auto 3+ is.

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And these people had the PlayStation as their first system. :D

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Originally posted by omfgninjas
I can't believe there isn't a Poy Poy appreciation thread.

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I've owned that game for well over a year and still haven't poped it into my PS2. Maybe I should give it a try.

The point of this thread:

Never say any game is the best game ever made unless you've played EVERY game ever made. It's ignorant to do so. Saying it's the best game you've ever played is a better way to start off a discussion.

But hey, that's just me. *shrugs*

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Originally posted by MechDeus
And while I could be wrong here, I think JM's comment was more to your posts in general, not just this specific one.

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Yeah, pretty much. You really do do this all the time. Maybe people are being hard with a capital CORE, but if you want to give them some advice, work on that delivery. Hell, you come off as much more jaded & snobby than they do 90% of the time. Honestly, I can remember when you were a pretty upbeat guy. It sounds funny, but you were nicer before you stopped being "a snob" or whatever. Sorry for being a jackass myself, but you just seem so negative lately.

JM

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Originally posted by Shinobi128
Like I said with diffusionx, what if I had said Final Fantasy X, Super Smash Bros., or Xenosaga?

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You would have been wrong ;).

Halo is one of the best games ever for me because I have had more fun playing it than almost any other game. I'd imagine that it's the best game ever for your friends because it's the most fun they've ever had with a game period. Are they stupid for saying that it's better than Chrono Trigger when they haven't played CT? Sure, but you have to realize, there's a huge number of games out there, and no one has played them all. Your "Best game ever" is only amongst those you've played.

I can say Halo is better than FFX, SSBM and Xenosaga because I've played them all, and because something like that is obviously an opinion and not stated as fact. But even if I hadn't played them, if I were to make a list of the best games ever, their absence would be just as forgivable as your friend's lack of CT, and of your lack of some obscure import game you've never heard of. If you like gaming who cares what you haven't played?

That said, people who say "Such and such sucks" or "That system has no good games" when they haven't played 'such and such' and they haven't sampled even one percentile of 'that systems' games pisses me off. "PS2 is my favorite system." Okay, sure. "PS2 is better than Xbox." Well, you don't own an Xbox, and you haven't played its games. Same goes for Halo vs. CT. "Halo is the best game ever." Okay, cool. "Halo is better than CT." is only acceptable if you've played CT.

Summary: positive bias is fine, negative bias is bad.

But heck,

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JSRF is gay

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at least no one can say they're Xbox fanboys.

"Yes, Halo is the new "I know nothing about gaming" best game ever. Just like Goldeneye was, just like Mortal Kombat was and just like Grand Theft Auto 3+ is."

I know you feel comfortable thinking to yourself that this is true, but really it's a crock ok. You have a right to your opinion, so do I and everybody else. GTA3 is perhaps the single greatest game of all time just for the amount of things it does right. You don't have to agree, but don't be saying everybody who does think so is a noob or a moron who never played the great games of a bygone era. I've been playing games now for damn near 20 years. That's a fucking career in some peoples minds alright? PS2 was not my first system. It's my oh, I'd say it's at least my 10th. So I've played alot of the greats. And even having played them, I can say to myself that GTA3 is my number 1 game of all time. Apparently a number of other people love it too. It appeals to them. What a horrible thought, people can have opinions that you don't share.

As for Halo. It isn't the greatest of all time, it isnt even in the top 10. But it is a great game to play with 7 other people in the room, or 15 in 2 rooms. And that's why its great.

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Originally posted by JM
Yeah, pretty much. You really do do this all the time. Maybe people are being hard with a capital CORE, but if you want to give them some advice, work on that delivery. Hell, you come off as much more jaded & snobby than they do 90% of the time. Honestly, I can remember when you were a pretty upbeat guy. It sounds funny, but you were nicer before you stopped being "a snob" or whatever. Sorry for being a jackass myself, but you just seem so negative lately.

JM

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Agreed.

Chrono Trigger is an awesome game! I like shooters so much. Especially ones with guns and stuff. Man, JSRF is so gay, guy!

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Originally posted by Andrew
Chrono Trigger is an awesome game! I like shooters so much. Especially ones with guns and stuff. Man, JSRF is so gay, guy!

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Andrew, you're silly.

You're all acting like there is some mythical best game ever in existence. It's called an opinion, you silly bastards. It can't be right or wrong.

Halo is definitely a good game. If someone has it as their favorite game, that's their issue. The fact that they play video games and have a favorite one makes me happy.

And Chrono Trigger is far too new to be old-school. :)

Simple: It isn't.

It sucks.

Halo was fantastic for a launch game, but now... eh, it's fun to play in small bursts.

The main reason why it was so popular is...subliminal messages...heh...just kidding, I don't post much and felt like blurting something out

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Originally posted by Frogacuda
Seriously, you're too old to be hanging around the elelmentry school like that.

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:rolleyes:

Whatever. I was actually commenting on the "real-er" thing and was only joking, so, you know, piss off.

--Scourge .

Certinly not the best game ever, but the single player is great, even with the rushed level design. Multiplayer is fantastic, even with the lack of maps. Bloodgultch CTF is all I ever need.

...and the "console FPS games suck" argument is tiresome

Doom is better than Halo because Doom had online play. :)

Doom was also innovative.

I thought this thread was going to be talking about Halo not a bitch-fest on what other people think.

ºTracer

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...and the "console FPS games suck" argument is tiresome

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The truth hurts, doesn't it? :p

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I thought this thread was going to be talking about Halo not a bitch-fest on what other people think.

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You thought wrong. :)

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Originally posted by Ammadeau
Doom is better than Halo because Doom had online play. :)

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You can play Halo online.

I like that quote from Ed Fries, where he says great things are coming to Live soon, like 'CounterStrike!'.

Cool. Now I can pay to play a game on a console with a shitter VC than my PC, with a Pad, rather than play it for free right now on my PC.

Innovative!

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Originally posted by MechDeus
The truth hurts, doesn't it? :p

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Not in the slightest. I've played the crap out of many, many PC FPS games (and still do). And yeah, in general FPS games on consoles are shitty. But I still love Halo, none the less. There isn't an inherant flaw in console FPS's that make them bad, just many try to be too much like PC fps games.

(p.s. there is no spoon)

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Originally posted by GameCynic
There isn't an inherant flaw in console FPS's that make them bad

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Here, I'll answer for MechDeus: Yes, there is. It's the lack of a mouse and keyboard.

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Originally posted by mattvanstone
I like that quote from Ed Fries, where he says great things are coming to Live soon, like 'CounterStrike!'.

Cool. Now I can pay to play a game on a console with a shitter VC than my PC, with a Pad, rather than play it for free right now on my PC.

Innovative!

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Yeah and according to Ed, there is also going to be FIVE Rare developed Xbox games on store shelves by the end of next year. :rolleyes:

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Originally posted by Saint of Killers
Here, I'll answer for MechDeus: Yes, there is. It's the lack of a mouse and keyboard.

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Thank you.

I never like console FPS games, of FPS in general til I played one on PC. After which I realized that I hated FPS on consoles cus of the conroller. They are getting better though, Metroid Prime and Halo (so I hear) have excellent controls. Still give me Counter Strike and Day of Defeat on PC any day of the week.

The only console FPS with decent controls is Serious Sam. As a result, it's the only one worth playing. It's still better on a PC though.

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Originally posted by Saint of Killers
Here, I'll answer for MechDeus: Yes, there is. It's the lack of a mouse and keyboard.

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And my baited response: Most FPS on all platforms are shit because they're resigned to built upon such a control scheme. The control scheme makes them almost too easy. Multiplayer aside, the games have become pointy-click-death with substitued Nazi's, Terrorists, or Aliens. Difficulty comes down to less ammo and more damage output from the enemies, with conservation the only thing to worry about. Even games like Alien vs. Predator (for the most part) use the same fucking formula, only its caked over with atmosphere.

There isn't a better example of a stale, putrid genre that is hell bent on repitition and stagnation. Singleplayer wise, the only thing moving the genre forward is more powerful graphics. The last big jump was scripted events, and that happened in 1998 with Half-Life. Sime time near the end 1998, it got fucking old. Now it seems every FPS game has turned into ammo conservation, scripted events, and pretty graphics. Whoopitdy shit.

Its games like Halo, that have fantastic (non-scripted) AI, weapon balance that doesn't rely on ammo conservation, and fine tuned difficulty, that give me hope for the genre.

And when you come to realize that there is no mouse when playing Halo, and that there will never be a mouse, you might just understand that you don't need a mouse to play the game.

Halo is coming to the PC, so there will be a mouse. In fact, the people porting it, Gearbox I think, said they had to up the difficulty because the game was too easy as is with a mouse.

The AI in the original Unreal Tournament is still better than the AI found in Halo. Anyone who has played Halo for any length of time should be able to tell that the AI there follows set patterns where the bots in UT are a little less predictable.

Oh, all AIs are scripted. Do you think they are made from magic or something? They're just a mass of logical statements with a few variables thrown in for flavor. Single player FPS games just tend to have extremely lazy AI design for weak FPS games or sometimes it's done on purpose as is the case with Serious Sam.

And Halo is all about ammo conservation when it only lets you carry two weapons at a time.

Really, everything Halo did has been done before elsewhwere and what's more, done better.

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Originally posted by Mamoscott
Yeah and according to Ed, there is also going to be FIVE Rare developed Xbox games on store shelves by the end of next year. :rolleyes:

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Oh, I believe that one.

Game #1 In the US
Game #1 Pack in
Game #1 Platinum
Game #1 in Japan
Game #1 in Europe

There, 5 games.

You forgot to mention they'll all be released at least a year apart.

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Originally posted by Ammadeau
Halo is coming to the PC, so there will be a mouse. In fact, the people porting it, Gearbox I think, said they had to up the difficulty because the game was too easy as is with a mouse.

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Precisely what I'm talking about...and the singleplayer game is going to suffer because of it. Artificialy enhanced difficulty.

When I said scripting, I meant cheesy, cinimatic scripting in games like Half-Life and Medal of Honor:AA; not dynamic AI scripting.

The two weapon system in Halo is in place to limit your option of how to attack the enemy. Every weapon is has well defined strengths adn weaknesses, and if you can only carry two weapons, you need to decide which weapons to take with you to tackle certin situations (as opposed to swtiching between 10 different weapons). Aside from the rocket launcher or sniper rifle, you never need to conserve ammo in the game...its litteraly everywhere.

GameCynic, are you just trying to come up with reasons to hate Halo coming to the PC? If the game's difficulty wasn't enhanced for the PC version, I'm sure you'd bitch about it. And now that you know that it is being enhanced, you're still bitching. Although judging by your name, I shouldn't be too shocked.

But you're just trading one demon for another, weapon conservation instead of ammo conservation. A different spin on the same old gimmick.

Also, the artifical difficulty was in the controls of the original Halo, which is why they need to beef up the PC version, not the other way around.

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Its games like Halo, that have fantastic (non-scripted) AI

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Stop.
Think.
Emote.

:rolleyes:

Halo coming to the PC is probably the only thing that makes me interested in the game. Now you get to enjoy the whacky multiplayer vehicle madness of Halo with a keyboard and mouse, online with friends (Or at a LAN center) without having to go split-screen or have weird friends that do XBox lan's (I still think it's goofy. Go figure).

The problem?

I already own Tribes.

...

I COULD NOT RESIST :D But seriously, the FPS has been done countless times on the PC and better at that. I don't imagine too many people bothering with it.

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Originally posted by GameCynic
And my baited response: Most FPS on all platforms are shit because they're resigned to built upon such a control scheme. The control scheme makes them almost too easy. Multiplayer aside

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And there goes your whole fucking argument. Multiplayer proves that mouse/keyboard requires skill.

The non-scripted AI comment was hilarious.

It takes great hand-eye coordination to make proper use of the mouse/keyboard configuration. Add to that the difficulty of the game, and you've got yourself a challenge there my friend. I for one prefer using a controller for my FPS playing. My horrid hand-eye coordination is probably the key reason for this, but I find it easier to adapt to any control scheme on a controller faster and easier than I can adapt to a keyboard/mouse configuration.

Anyone should know that I play PC more than anything else, but I still love Halo because it was fun. I'm not going to sit an sulk like a faggot just because it's not on PC. If I can have fun with it I will and be done with the idea. A lot of you are content to deride something just because you all have some superficial ideal on how these things should be.

Just a thought, but whatever.

And about CS and all that jazz. I'm not one of these people, HOWEVER, I'm sure there's a signifigant enough portion of game buyers out there who don't play games on thier PC and would like to enjoy CS. I'm sure that'll fit the bill for them and at least it's not being TOO hamstrung :o

BTW: I didn't hear anyone talk crap about Quake 3 on Dreamcast even though I personally consider it a joke (I sometimes Play as Dreamcast in Quake 3 and insist that I am playing off of one just to get some laughs).

ºTracer

keyboard/mouse or dual analog control. doesn't make a difference to me.

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Originally posted by Tracer


BTW: I didn't hear anyone talk crap about Quake 3 on Dreamcast even though I personally consider it a joke (I sometimes Play as Dreamcast in Quake 3 and insist that I am playing off of one just to get some laughs).

ºTracer

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I found the Q3 port on the DC to be quite good. Other than the stock DC mouse being unresopnsive as heck, I used an adapter and my PC mouse, with BBA support and one the 47" old-school front projection set I had, it kicked much ass...

Actually I owned Quake3 on the DC before I got it on my PC...

To get back on topic...

I posted the same question on the Xbox.com forums. Some replies were :wtf:, others gave me a legitimate response.

http://forums.xbox.com/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=1876170

Oh man...first reply..

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Didn't you see the guns?!?!?!!?!?!?!?!?!?!

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Reading further into the thread, you realize that these kids just can't read.

Shinobi, go play Halo and then post. HAW HAW HAW AHW AHW~!!!!

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Originally posted by Sl1p
Oh man...first reply..



Reading further into the thread, you realize that these kids just can't read.

Shinobi, go play Halo and then post. HAW HAW HAW AHW AHW~!!!!

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Yes, the xbox.com forums make me sad. :( but i did get a new sig from them. :)

2 minute photoshop time. This sums up the thread.

Hadn't played a fps since Doom 2 before I picked up Halo (I bought JSR:F and Gunvalkyrie before that though), everyone told me that it was THE game to get if you owned an Xbox, and they where right.
My first disc was faulty and freezed in the credits, my second was damaged when it got stuck in the Xbox when it died on me, I sold my third one since I didn't have any use for my xbox anymore.
Whenever I see a copy of Halo on the shelves I get almost high. I love that game.

Heh I still sit around and read some reviews of it when I happen to come over one, "so the speed affects the damage dealt when punching?, Never thought of that", and so on, great game.

Ah well. No hope to win this argument.

Anyway, multiplayer is a whole different story. I love multiplayer FPS games to death, and for that the mouse and keyboard is fantastic. I'm just kinda tired of retread fps games, I dunno, maybe I just burned myself out on them over the years. Halo is the lone exception.

Good day.

::runs off to play Battlefield 1942::

The other day I was watching The Net (made in 1995) and Sandra Bullock's playing Wolfenstein 3D (made in 1992) and some guy on the phone with her is telling her that it's the bloodiest, most cutting edge game out and that the kids'll love it. :)

It was true at one point and time.

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Originally posted by J2d
Heh I still sit around and read some reviews of it when I happen to come over one, "so the speed affects the damage dealt when punching?, Never thought of that", and so on, great game.

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What? It does? Hmm...is that true for weapon melee too? That would explain some off the odd insta-death melee versus when two people slug it out by just rotating and not moving much.

Oh..uh sorry. I think Halo is a great game, but so are many pc titles. I generally like playing games on the system they were designed for, it just seems more natutal, or something (thus, I wouldn't buy Halo for my pc, or Unreal 2003, er Championship on my Xbox).

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Originally posted by FuryFox
Oh..uh sorry. I think Halo is a great game, but so are many pc titles. I generally like playing games on the system they were designed for, it just seems more natutal, or something (thus, I wouldn't buy Halo for my pc, or Unreal 2003, er Championship on my Xbox).

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The hilarious thing is that Halo was originally going to be for PC, until Microsoft bought Bungie and had them design Halo as a X-Box game instead. So, in essence, we're getting a PC port of an X-Box game originally intended for PC. :)

(No, I don't intend on getting it either.)

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Originally posted by DArque Bishop
The hilarious thing is that Halo was originally going to be for PC, until Microsoft bought Bungie and had them design Halo as a X-Box game instead. So, in essence, we're getting a PC port of an X-Box game originally intended for PC. :)

(No, I don't intend on getting it either.)

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And before it was going to be on PC it was going to be on Mac. I only remember this because one of my friends who was really into Mac gaming at the time (Yeah, they exist) was REALLY excited about it and would show me concept art for it all the time. I remember seeing the Warthog in action back then too...if only I could remember how different it was from the final.

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Originally posted by DArque Bishop
The hilarious thing is that Halo was originally going to be for PC, until Microsoft bought Bungie and had them design Halo as a X-Box game instead.

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Actually, wasn't it originally supposed to be on PS2 as well?

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Originally posted by Clash_Master
It was true at one point and time.

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Yeah, but not at the time of the movie...it was over three years old at that point.

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Originally posted by Sl1p
And before it was going to be on PC it was going to be on Mac.

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Very true. In fact, the Halo OST contains a track especially written for the Macworld show of 1999. Of course, it's entitled "Halo".

Halo was a cool game. FPS freaks point to a variety of purported flaws (some of which I agree with), but I can certainly see why some folks would love it to death, particularly those who don't own wallet-crushing PC rigs. My own take: not my pick for "best game ever", but I sure wouldn't complain if a bunch more games were as fun as I found Halo to be.

and for some reason i still go to my friends house for his system link halo matches. i think i go just to hang out more than wanting to play the game tho....

i still have the issue of incite magazine that showed halo. at one point you had a sword as a melee weapon. funny stuff. if i had a scanner i scan the old coverage. funny stuff indeed.

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Originally posted by Dragonmaster Dyne
i still have the issue of incite magazine that showed halo. at one point you had a sword as a melee weapon. funny stuff. if i had a scanner i scan the old coverage. funny stuff indeed.

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They showed the Master Chief holding the plasma sword (the ones the elite used) in the 2000 E3 trailer of the game. It was originally gonna be in the game (i hope it's in halo 2).

id like to see more melee weapons. i find myself usually running up to other players or in the single player game and just bashing them with my gun :D jumping on someones head while theyre trying to snipe someone else in a deathmatch and bashing their head is always fun.

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Here, I'll answer for MechDeus: Yes, there is. It's the lack of a mouse and keyboard.

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That'd be exactly what I would say, but I suppose more what I mean is: the addition of a gamepad. Is there a better way to control FPS' then the kb&m? Possibly. Is the gamepad the complete antithesis of that direction? Yes.

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Precisely what I'm talking about...and the singleplayer game is going to suffer because of it. Artificialy enhanced difficulty.

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Gamepads are artifically enhanced difficulty.

Question for Halo fans: Why does the game have a rapid-fire sniper rifle (handgun)? I just ask because I've seen a couple big Halo gatherings, and the people with the highest kills are those who just run around with the handgun pulling off one-hit kills continuously. Seems game-breaking to me, much like the Farsight was.

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Originally posted by FuryFox
What? It does? Hmm...is that true for weapon melee too? That would explain some off the odd insta-death melee versus when two people slug it out by just rotating and not moving much.

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Yea, I believe that one from the team said it in a Edge interview, I can look it up if you want to.

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Originally posted by MechDeus
Question for Halo fans: Why does the game have a rapid-fire sniper rifle (handgun)? I just ask because I've seen a couple big Halo gatherings, and the people with the highest kills are those who just run around with the handgun pulling off one-hit kills continuously. Seems game-breaking to me, much like the Farsight was.

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There IS a scoped semi-automatic handgun, that is essentially standard issue. It's a great weapon, but in my experience it's pretty hard to pull off a one-hit kill with it, especially against a shielded enemy. In fact, the principal purpose of that weapon (aside from generally killing, of course) is to rapidly deplete an enemy's shield so that he can be killed with a subsequent one-hit.

Aren't you just dying to play it now? ;)

I'm almost certain you cannot one-hit kill with the pistol when they have shields up (unless you pistol-whip them from behind). It is however, a great weapon for mooching kills on opponents that others have weakened.

I want to murder everyone in this thread who is bitching/arguing/complaining about mouse+keyboard versus gamepad. This is not 1997 - it's an old and pointless debate. Either an FPS has m+k, or it doesn't. And it doesn't matter anymore, because, like I said, its not five-years-ago.

Stop acting like a bunch of bitches.

I want to murder everyone in this thread who is bitching/arguing/complaining about joysticks versus gamepad. This is not 1997 - it's an old and pointless debate. Either a fighting game has a joystick, or it doesn't. And it doesn't matter anymore, because, like I said, its not five-years-ago.

Stop acting like a bunch of bitches.

Just because it's old doesn't make it pointless or take away from its validity.

That guy steve came over unexpectedly. Upon entering my room, the first thing out of his mouth was "What's the word on Halo 2?" I wanted to cry. :(

He also noticed my desktop which is currently one of the Wind Waker desktops available on www.zelda.com He was like, "Dude...how could you like Zelda?"

/me gives the TNL community a big hug :cool:

Halo is the new Streetfighter. Not that there's anything wrong with the old one, mind you.

Halo's story mode is no big deal. Halo's multiplayer is. I happen to be lucky in that almost every single person I know who plays games decided to get an Xbox and Halo, even if they never touch anything else. I play 16 player matches a couple of times a month, and there's nothing like that, anywhere. Nothing. (okay, a LAN party, but that's way too much equipment to haul).

Having that many friends in one room, all playing the same game at the same time, trash-talking and helping each other out...getting four other guys, all armed to the teeth and crossing the tundra on a tank...actually coordinating team matches with 8 guys to a team...this is one of the coolest console experiences ever.

The fact that it runs at such a smooth rate no matter how many players there are (hello, Unreal!), the fact that anybody can relate to it and get good at it, and the fact that it's so widespread and relatively cheap make it a phenomenon that's not in the same category as anything else.

Don't fault the game for the non-hardcore for liking it. They're not always wrong - they played SF2, Super Mario, Zelda, Final Fantasy, Metal Gear, and tons of other great games whose only crime was a large marketing budget.

The controller is perfect for the game. Perfect. If you can't play on it, there's something wrong with you, not the game. It's like saying that arcade Soul Calibur sucks because it doesn't use a control pad.

We've been playing Halo for a year and a half straight, and I'm still improving. Chrono Trigger never got that much play time from anybody, I can tell you that. (btw, wtf is up with a collaboration between the Final Fantasy and Dragon Ball Z guys being some kind of underground indy-gamer rallying point?) I don't care if game X has a neater gun, or game Y has netplay. There's nothing else anywhere that has what Halo has. And what Halo has, in the end, is way more fun than having slightly more fantastical weapons or bombing run or bots or whatever.

Oh yeah, Halo 2 is gonna rock.

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Originally posted by MechDeus
That'd be exactly what I would say, but I suppose more what I mean is: the addition of a gamepad. Is there a better way to control FPS' then the kb&m? Possibly. Is the gamepad the complete antithesis of that direction? Yes.Gamepads are artifically enhanced difficulty.

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I don't agree at all. The gamepad offers analogue movement (which the m+k can't, only analogue look), and no searching around a keyboard for the duck button when you only have a split-second to avoid that last shot. It also has vibration, and the cool feel of pulling a trigger on that machine gun. The whole experience, once learned (and come on, any gamer should be able to do it - it's not the olympics or anything) is more engrossing than clicking a mouse and typing WASD.

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Question for Halo fans: Why does the game have a rapid-fire sniper rifle (handgun)? I just ask because I've seen a couple big Halo gatherings, and the people with the highest kills are those who just run around with the handgun pulling off one-hit kills continuously. Seems game-breaking to me, much like the Farsight was.

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Because it's not? I've never played anyone who could pull of one-hits at will. They're extrememly rare, and only happen at relatively close range. They only happen with a headshot within a certain distance, and the targeting reticle is too large to isolate someone's head from more than a few feet away. They also won't occur if you have an overshield. If you make yourself a constantly moving target, they almost never happen to you.

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It's like saying that arcade Soul Calibur sucks because it doesn't use a control pad.

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How about saying that parts of VF4 can't be done without a joystick? I also seem to remember you saying something regarding Super parrying and gamepads as well for SFIII.

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The gamepad offers analogue movement (which the m+k can't, only analogue look), and no searching around a keyboard for the duck button when you only have a split-second to avoid that last shot.

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I never walk, it's too damn slow so I could care less about the analogue movement (which I've never seen help anyone anyway). If you're searching for a duck button, that's your fault, not the keyboard. In any FPS that needs it my pinkie rests permanantly on the Left Shift key for duck, which works a whole lot better then a stick button.

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They only happen with a headshot within a certain distance, and the targeting reticle is too large to isolate someone's head from more than a few feet away.

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Then the people I've seen and played with had it down to a science, because it happened constantly. This isn't something I heard of or encountered a couple times, it's something I watched happen in front of me and had done to me numerous times. We actually banned usage of it because there were only a couple people that could use it properly and it was so lopsided in their favor it wasn't even funny.

Besides, a moving target doesn't count for much in Halo considering their speed.

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Originally posted by MechDeus
How about saying that parts of VF4 can't be done without a joystick? I also seem to remember you saying something regarding Super parrying and gamepads as well for SFIII.

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Both examples are true, but what can't you do on a controller that you can on m+k?

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I never walk, it's too damn slow so I could care less about the analogue movement (which I've never seen help anyone anyway).

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It helps a great deal on stages where you have to make difficult climbs/jumps for powerups; the rocket launcher on battle creek, for instance. Charge up that rock formation, and it's highly likely that you'll fall off. I also find it comes in handy when sniping or strafing; I'll leave the reticle level near the enemy and simply move left or right to target, which ends up being more accurate most of the time.

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If you're searching for a duck button, that's your fault, not the keyboard. In any FPS that needs it my pinkie rests permanantly on the Left Shift key for duck, which works a whole lot better then a stick button.

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That I don't agree on. Your thumb's already on the stick; it's a question of a fraction of a second, so it's not a huge deal, but anything that makes me involve my pinky isn't the most intuitive control scheme, heh.

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Then the people I've seen and played with had it down to a science, because it happened constantly. This isn't something I heard of or encountered a couple times, it's something I watched happen in front of me and had done to me numerous times. We actually banned usage of it because there were only a couple people that could use it properly and it was so lopsided in their favor it wasn't even funny.

Besides, a moving target doesn't count for much in Halo considering their speed.

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Dude, you must be hanging with total ninja gamers, because I know some pretty good players, but nobody can do that. And it's not so much the speed of the target, but maintaining an unpredictable path.

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Originally posted by StriderKyo
Both examples are true, but what can't you do on a controller that you can on m+k?

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I've pulled off the Crushing Mountain of Steel on a PS2 pad, but that doesn't make it an equal controller. It isn't a question of not being able to, it's a question of how well it can be done.

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I also find it comes in handy when sniping or strafing; I'll leave the reticle level near the enemy and simply move left or right to target, which ends up being more accurate most of the time.

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That actually just shows the inadaquency of aiming of on a gamepad.

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[...] but anything that makes me involve my pinky isn't the most intuitive control scheme, heh.

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Then move it. The beauty of that control scheme is that you make it work any way you please.

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Dude, you must be hanging with total ninja gamers, because I know some pretty good players, but nobody can do that.

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*shrugs* The people I played with who could do that do three things: play DOA3, play Halo, and smoke pot. That is their entire life. When I played against them I rarely died from anything besides a one-hit kill, excluding the time we bunched up far too many people in a map designed for two at most. It ended up as just a lot of explosions and gun butts.