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Hm. Must've mistook your turning a blind eye to Hamas and then derogitorily mentioning Armenian terrorists as a sign that you think one is fine and the other isn't.
Oh and justified to do the unjustifiable...? Yet you hate everything the US does... Back to Jimmy Carter's statement, when the Iraqi people celebrate freedom, remember that their freedom is "unjust."
You are a living slippery slope.
--Scourge .
You cannot justify murder of civillians, ever.
I do feel sympathy for Palestinians. I feel they are grossly misrepresented by Arafat, by their own account. That they are being pushed aroung by the IDF sometimes killing with little or no restraint from the soldiers against people that try to defend their neighbourhood from incursion. But like I said before, everything can be done through diplomacy and negotiation, and I think that there are people on both sides that see their side's shortcommings and are willing to negotiate it today. It is those people that will lead us to peace, not the people that choose sides.
Man stop twisting my words, I said how THEY feel justified to do the unjustifyable.Quote:
Originally posted by Scourge
Hm. Must've mistook your turning a blind eye to Hamas and then derogitorily mentioning Armenian terrorists as a sign that you think one is fine and the other isn't.
Oh and justified to do the unjustifiable...? Yet you hate everything the US does... Back to Jimmy Carter's statement, when the Iraqui people celebrate freedom, remember that their freedom is "unjust."
You are a living slippery slope.
--Scourge .
They not ME, for me such actions are clearly unjustifyable, you dont take innocent blood to avenge innocent blood.
Iraqi freedom might be just, the way it MIGHT be achieved is not.
regardles a free Iraqi western style democracy is impossible, hatred amongst fractions runs too deep for that to be possible, just look at the former Yugoslavia, the reason that country stayed togheter without bloodshed was becouse of a dictatorship, same with Iraq, the very fabric of what is keeping Iraq whole right now is gonna be attacked and the consequences at this point are anyones guess.
Yes, support Saddam. It's for the kids.:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally posted by Almaci
a free Iraqi western style democracy is impossible, hatred amongst fractions runs too deep for that to be possible, just look at the former Yugoslavia, the reason that country stayed togheter without bloodshed was becouse of a dictatorship, same with Iraq, the very fabric of what is keeping Iraq whole right now is gonna be attacked and the consequences at this point are anyones guess.
Man you really like putting words into my mouth dont you?
Tell me, what did I say that anyone who is even half informed about the racial and historical makeup of Iraq wouldnt confirm?
Whats the roadmap after Saddam is gone, will the US secure the unity of the country of Iraq or will the country fall apart into smaller countries, each of em hostile to the other one?
Fact remains the sunni´s cant stand the Shiite´s cant stand the Kurds cant stand the Irani loyals cant stand the Nomads.
Recipe for disaster just like the former Yugoslavia.
How is stating that supporting Saddam?
Almaci: isn't the current government going to be replaced by another baathist one?
Don't pull that elitist bullshit with me Almaci. I recognize and understand that the factions that make up Iraq aren't going to magically like each other after Saddam is gone. But that doesn't mean that they shouldn't be allowed to try to live together in peace and the UN will play a big part in that. If the UN chooses not to play a big role there, then the UN proves itself to be even less than half-assed.Quote:
Originally posted by Almaci
Man you really like putting words into my mouth dont you?
Tell me, what did I say that anyone who is even half informed about the racial and historical makeup of Iraq wouldnt confirm?
That's why they need strong law inforcement over there. Let the peace keeping troops stay there for about 20 years and everything will mellow out. The old blood will die out with the old militants. A good strong government made up of various tribes leaders and strong enforcement based on a well suited doctrine will work. People are not animals, the majority of them would rather work together for a better future rather that rant and kill based on religious beliefs. The problem is corruption, and hardliners choosing one side over the other. Militants are usually uneducated people from the mountains and can only convince others that are even weaker minded than they are that their cause is just. This is the mentality that really has to go away from the Middle East.Quote:
Originally posted by Almaci
Fact remains the sunni´s cant stand the Shiite´s cant stand the Kurds cant stand the Irani loyals cant stand the Nomads.
Apparently thats the plan yes.
Thing is if the country gets another dictator from the Baathists there will be no democracy, if democracy is allowed the country will fall apart, Iran will jump in to reclaim the property wich they feel is rightfully theirs, turkey will invade the north becouse they feel/claim that a full Kurdish state(north Iraq has been under some sort of self rule for years now)will jeopardise turkish security, Turkey has entered northern Iraq several times the last decade in pursue of kurdish rebels)Quwait will feel that they are entitled to some oilfields up north of their border as well and meanwhile you will have internal fighting.
These things could be avoided quite easily with a strong International mandate and with the local countries working togheter.
None of those things are happening tough so I fear that even if the war is relatively short and painles(as far as wars go)that there will be bloodshed for years to come.
Quote:
Originally posted by seen
That's why they need strong law inforcement over there. Let the peace keeping troops stay there for about 20 years and everything will mellow out. The old blood will die out with the old militants. A good strong government made up of various tribes leaders and strong enforcement based on a well suited doctrine will work. People are not animals, the majority of them would rather work together for a better future rather that rant and kill based on religious beliefs. The problem is corruption, and hardliners choosing one side over the other. Militants are usually uneducated people from the mountains and can only convince others that are even weaker minded than they are that their cause is just. This is the mentality that really has to go away from the Middle East.
Wait a sec, why should the UN provide peacekeepers and pay for them for two decades?
The UN is a useles organisation whos only purpose it seems is to keep the US down, why would they help in a war they dont want to begin with?
Oh BTW why is the US begging for german and French money for rebuilding Iraq before a war even starts and after all the contempt they have shown towards them?
Quote:
Originally posted by Scourge
Don't pull that elitist bullshit with me Almaci. I recognize and understand that the factions that make up Iraq aren't going to magically like each other after Saddam is gone. But that doesn't mean that they shouldn't be allowed to try to live together in peace and the UN will play a big part in that. If the UN chooses not to play a big role there, then the UN proves itself to be even less than half-assed.
IC so the US decides to go at it without UN aproval and with reluctant allies whose only motivations seem to be economic ones but they expect the UN to police and clean up the mess they leave behind?
Because they're better at foreign policy and law enforcement than US. I think the general consensus is that the war agenda is Bush's, fixing broken nations is UN's. US is still a part of UN and we'll all have to pull together to make it work. This may become a model for rebuilding other oppressive totalitarian governments, so we better not fuck it up.Quote:
Originally posted by Almaci
Wait a sec, why should the UN provide peacekeepers and pay for them for two decades?
The UN is a useles organisation whos only purpose it seems is to keep the US down, why would they help in a war they dont want to begin with?