Soldering controllers for fun and profit *renamed*

So here I am attempting to make an arcade stick for some GGXX love, but can't seem to find a proper diagram for soldering the wires in the right places. I found this place, but they used a third party controller and the points seem moved around and I'm not sure where the ground is. Next up was this site, but it conflicts with all the other faqs I've found in that it says you should wire up both sides of each direction to the arcade button/joystick. It also has no diagrams, no placement of ground, and my controller PCB isn't labelled like that one is.

I'm using an official Sony PS(1) non-Dual-Shock pad. Does anyone here know of any diagrams of such or are willing to share any first-hand experience doing this? Please?

You see those big areas on which half of the contact for the button lies in, that's the ground. The areas which go out with paths are the signal lines. I got this by judging that MadCatz controller PCB picture. If the Sony PCB is made so that the ground is concealed and all you see are the circular contacts then you need to use your own judgement or get a multi-meter and... I recommend having a multimeter around for operations like this anyway.

With is you can check voltages, current, and resistance. The one you especially need in this case is checking connectivity, which you can do with an ohm-meter. Put the multimeter in ohm-meter mode, and then just keep probing the two ends around the board until the needle jumps to the max. Then you know that the two points are internally connected. This is useful for finding out ground points and other connections including the multi-line cable ones.

Follow that first site you mentioned. A real PSX controller is pretty similar to that knockoff. Each button and d-pad direction has a ground and a trigger connection under it. You can tell which is the ground because it's connected to the grounds on other buttons . Hook each trigger connection to the N/O on your switch. And then take the ground from 1 spot and daisy chain it to the ground terminals on the switches.

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Originally posted by seen
If the Sony PCB is made so that the ground is concealed and all you see are the circular contacts then you need to use your own judgement

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It's easy to tell visually which is ground on the Sony PCB.

Alright, my roomies digital camera can't focus worth a damn, but we'll see what we can do.

http://www.treasuregear.com/Storage/sonypcb.jpg

I highlighted the side of the button area that travels to the center ship and would guess the other sides which all connect are the ground (like I said, I'm newbie as all hell here). A bit hard to tell, but the inside halves on the shoulder buttons are the grounds up there, right?

My next question is the MS Paint-style pic I drew in there, which is a closeup of where the X, Circle, Triangle, and Square buttons go. Would I actually need to scratch off the rubber (the black lines) there, or can I solder a wire anywhere on the left side of that entire area? If I do need to remove the rubber, do I need to be careful about getting the wire precisely on that tiny line?

Seen, catty, thanks a ton.

P.S. A roomies has a multimeter, but I have no clue how to use it and he's asleep.

This might be a little tough if you are new to soldering, but I beleive this is the same 1st party pcb as yours.

http://www.neo-geo.com/cgi-local/ult...c&f=5&t=004009

wow that some tricky work right there... good luck and all....

The big metal area around the outside of the PCB is all ground. You can either scrape off some of the solder mask and attach your ground wire directly to the board, or look for a place where there's a component attached and solder it there. I usually just use the spot where the controller cable goes in.

The button connections will be one the side of the button pad that's not attached to ground. You can probably scrape off a little bit of the graphite (the black stuff) and solder to the underlying copper trace. Or, you can trace the button leads all the way back to the IC and solder directly to the chip. The first method will be a lot easier if you aren't concerned about appearance.

- Matt

dont you have to scrape the graphite off? (heard about that on the dc controllers, if something went wrong the controller or dc controller board could short or something).

anyways, yeah basically just the big connected areas are mostly ground. as for the button contacts, looks like theyre intertwined a bit with the ground so it might be a bitch to solder those. theres a ghetto way to get around that though. with a knife or (preferably) a dremel or something, basically cut off the small contact to the ground. that opens up the whole circle area as a solder spot. and if you screw up, go for a ps1 madcatz pad. if anything itll be a little easier since you sorta know what youre doing then. i got mine at blockbuster for like $5 or 10 with a mem card and free game rental card.

I have successfully rigged up the start button. :D Seems to be easy sailing from here on out now that I have some hands-on with how to do it. Now to wait for the drill to recharge so I can put the buttons in place and do up the rest of the solders (excluding the joysticks themselves, which won't be here until probably the end of the week). Feels good to piece something together.

Tonic: That specific link didn't help me too much because that guy did the soldering in a way I don't want to try, but it gave me a link to another helpful place.

DiffX: I guess you deleted your post, but it made me laugh.

Thanks for all your help everyone, I'll post some pictures when I get it closer to up and running.

are you gonna be soldering directly to the button/stick switches? if you are i have one tip, DONT. .187" female quick disconnects are your friend. itll be easier to connect to the switches and in case you have to do some rewiring or something, itll make things much easier and quicker.

Is that what they're called? I saw them used in one of the pictures but wasn't too sure, and I also don't really care that much right now (not that I'd even know where to look for some). Out of curiousity, wouldn't a (harder) method of rewiring be to simply reheat the solder and pull the wire out (and/or put a new in)? I had to do that fifteen million times to get the trigger and ground seperate on that damned tiny as all hell start button on the PS pcb. Or does it become impossible or some such after too long?

I'll probably bother with that for when I work on the supergun.

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Originally posted by MechDeus
Is that what they're called? I saw them used in one of the pictures but wasn't too sure, and I also don't really care that much right now (not that I'd even know where to look for some). Out of curiousity, wouldn't a (harder) method of rewiring be to simply reheat the solder and pull the wire out (and/or put a new in)? I had to do that fifteen million times to get the trigger and ground seperate on that damned tiny as all hell start button on the PS pcb. Or does it become impossible or some such after too long?

I'll probably bother with that for when I work on the supergun.

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Actually, yes. Too much heat/stress can actually cause the traces to lift off the PCB. I had this problem when I made my first USB adapter for a NEO stick.

heh, actually i did that on my dreamcast pad (i bought a circuit writer pen thing to fix my screwups). which was before i figured out the cutting off the ground trick. the heat shouldnt be that big a deal on the microswitches, its mainly for convenience really (although technically the heat could melt the plastic casing of the switch, it probably wont happen). itll be a bitch to rewire things through desoldering/soldering because the amount of wires goin around and depending on your casing.

Wow, this is all really cool. I think I should learn how to solder. It's probably going to be an important skill to me someday and it this project looks pretty fun and interesting. Plus I could use another joystick.

The only thing I don't get is how the pushbuttons work. Does anyone have like a detailed step by step guide on where you solder the points? I'm not getting it so far. Also, I can't find the Ultimate stick on the happcontrols website. Link anyone?

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Originally posted by SXA
The only thing I don't get is how the pushbuttons work. Does anyone have like a detailed step by step guide on where you solder the points?

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I'll probably make a small guide myself when I'm done to add to all the other guides. For the pushbuttons, the ground is the "extra" prong piece that sticks off the side, and you solder the wire from the pcb trigger to the side of the regular two prong plug close to that. Take at look at the closeup pics on the first site I linked for a good picture.

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Also, I can't find the Ultimate stick on the happcontrols website. Link anyone?

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http://www.happcontrols.com/joysticks/ultimate_joy.htm

I just ordered two Super Joysticks, which are currently on sale for almost half the price to boot.

http://www.happcontrols.com/joysticks/super_joy.htm

[edit] Update: I now have the four face buttons and start hooked up and in a piece of wood. I got stuck for a bit because it turns out you can only solder the two sides of the face button areas, and not those thin lines running up and down.

dont get the ultimate. for reasons, read this:
http://www.oscarcontrols.com/joycomp...yreview1.shtml
the super and the competition sticks are the way to go, i have both and theyre great.

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I got stuck for a bit because it turns out you can only solder the two sides of the face button areas, and not those thin lines running up and down.

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yeah arent those a wonderful bitch. cutting through the outer ground contact on there makes that pretty easy since you can just use the entire button area then.

Ah, I see how it works. So the green wire on the first website is ground? Forgive me 'cuz I'm just starting out.

Yeah, now that I see where you solder it seems way easier.

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Originally posted by SXA
Ah, I see how it works. So the green wire on the first website is ground?

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Yepperts.

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Forgive me 'cuz I'm just starting out.

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Same here, this is the first soldering/mechanical work (?) I've ever done.

Well my dad is an engineer so he's guiding me along the way and he already had lots of the stuff I needed so that's good. Soldering a modchip doesn't seem so hard now. :D

Woohoo! I just finished my own joystick-hacking project. I turned a Saturn Hori Fighting Stick SS into a PSX stick. I used the guts of an old Sony PSX controller. I didn't do any drilling, but the little circular copper pads that were under graphite seemed to be fine to solder to. The stick works well, too. Now I have no excuse not to try Guilty Gear XX. :p

And while this is my fourth or fifth soldering project and the most complex one yet, it doesn't make me excited for doing any PS2 mods...my hands shake far too much for the fine work. -_-

No one heard the doorbell from UPS when I was at work, so still no joysticks. :( I also partially broke my mp3 player, thus today is not going as well as planned. On the bright side, I should successfully pull off sleeping.

In any case, that means the sticks should get finished tomorrow so I'll have some pics up then. They'll probably need a lot of breaking in as the buttons are pretty damn hard. No combos for me yet.

These buttons will work fine right?

Can't wait to start building my stick. What are you housing the buttons in Mech?

EDIT: Fixed.

You linked to a stick, fyi.

I'm currently building the housing out of 3/4"x11 3/4"x36" (I think) boards of white laminated plywood (Home Depot, about $4.75 a piece). The dimensions of the controller are about 16" wide, 11" deep, and 4" tall. It'll take one board and some change to make a complete stick having a top and sides (I probably won't make a bottom). However, I might have some problems with the stick because of the extra board thickness, so it looks like I might have to take a dremel or some such to it to carve out the stick placement. I'm hoping I won't have to, but am planning to.

Fixed. I'm talking about the competition pushbuttons.

I would guess those buttons are just fine, but I'd imagine someone else here would know better. I got a bunch of the Ultimate pushbuttons, which are a bit tinier then I expected but still really nice.

Wow. I mean... yeah, wow. This thing feels good, damned good, hella good... I'm kinda at a loss here. I just did some GGXX testing with it, and it feels smooth as butter. I kinda can't get over how friggin' awesome it feels! No wonder people love custom jobs, it's been so long since I've felt an actual arcade stick that it's kind of sickening how nice this feels.

*awaits people who try this and then bitch about how overrated it is*

In any case, I promised pictures, and pictures I shall give. It's still unfinished but in good playing condition, tomorrow when I have access to a saw I'll make the front and back and screw them in. Whenever I decide exactly how I want to handle it I'll make a bottom, but it remains open for now.

I figured you all might like the Harp box.

man you guys have me even wanting to build my own stick hmmmmmm

id want to build something that would just have a connector and then that way i could maybe build a connector to plug into it from each different system

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Originally posted by Shin Johnpv
id want to build something that would just have a connector and then that way i could maybe build a connector to plug into it from each different system

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I'd almost say make it out of a PS controller because there are so many PS->whatever adapters on the market. Since I bought a PS->DC adapter a long time ago for DDR that means this baby can also be used for all my DC fighting games. :D

true good call

no PSX to 3DO adaptor though ;)

and if there is please some one sell it to me *LOL*

Ah. Nice Mech. Is that a Super or a Competition joystick? I ordered a Super cuz I prefer ball sticks to bats.

Nice choice with the Agetec button layout. When I saw this guy's layout I almost puked. The old speaker case only adds to the effect. :lol:

I made my stick out a psx controller, cause it works with everything (DC, GCN, xbox, pc) like mech mentioned. But if I wasn't so lazy, i'd just make connectors for everything.

I use the competition buttons, I prefer them to the ultimates (concave). I haven't used sanwa buttons yet, but I'm going to get some soon.

I like the simplicity of your box design. I have limited access to wood cutting tools (I also suck at wood work), so thats something I could do.

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Originally posted by SXA
Ah. Nice Mech. Is that a Super or a Competition joystick? I ordered a Super cuz I prefer ball sticks to bats.

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Super. I didn't even have to trim out some wood thickness to make the stick long enough, it worked perfectly.

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I like the simplicity of your box design. I have limited access to wood cutting tools (I also suck at wood work), so thats something I could do.

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I actually haven't cut anything myself yet, those are the cuts I had the Home Depot guys do. :D

I wanted to make it slope downward (the back at four or five inches and the front an inch lower) but I didn't have the tools to make sloped sides and angled tops to the front and back. I might try to find a friend with some tools for whenever I start the Supergun to do it then. Thinking about it, I should've stuck the left triggers and select in there as well in case I wanted it for games like SotN, but I'll deal.

I've now also found that the height makes it impossible to play on my lap, but it works almost perfectly with my coffee table so it's all good.

Well done. I pondered pursuing a project such as this a few weeks ago to be completed during the summer. Knowing that you [like me] haven't had any soldering experience or anything of that nature really helps to give me a push forward.




But if I do this, I want pink buttons.

FYI: If you've never soldered before, be sure to get in at least a couple minutes of testing first. I found myself an extra 10/100 ethernet card laying around and spent a couple minutes soldering from point to point, both on areas with something for the wire to attach to and on flat areas.

Probably the best piece of advice I found was to first create a blob of solder on the point where the wire will go, and then bring over the wire and reheat the solder to stick the wire in. Gets rid of that "I need three arms" annoyance quite nicely.

Advice taken. Turns out I know someone who has had soldering experience as well, so hopefully I can learn the ropes firsthand.

I changed the topic title since it looks like I'll be delving into other fun stuff to boot. I spent part of this afternoon attaching a USB cable to an extra XBox controller for use on my PC. Despite the utter simplicity of what need to be done, it was actually a bit harder then wiring up the PS stick because the USB wires were so tiny. I had to take a sharp knife and very carefully peel off the rubber, which was a pain in the ass. Then I had to contend to loose connections in my soldering and a set of drivers that didn't work, but it's now all setup and good.

It's not perfect, as per default button 2 is Back, 1 is Start, 3 is left stick button, and 4 is right stick button, so Mame is an utter pain in the ass. It would have been even worse if I had tried this with an S-controller. Since it's USB not all games recongnize it (like rRootage), but it nice finally having two gamepads at once for the games and emus that support such.

The drivers also have a few built-in setups for FPS' in the Halo-style, which I naturally haven't tried yet. But I'll see if I can give it a go since I know someone here is probably wondering (or is now) how well that holds up.

I don't have pics since my roomie took his digital camera back, but it's really just a stock hamburger controller with a white cable. Luckily, the Gods were smiling upon me when I made it as the "stopper" that held the cord in place on the mouse I ripped the cable off of fit in perfectly in the XBox's cable holder. It's the little things that make it nice. :)

wow. shitload more posts since i last saw this thread. since someone mentioned connectors i guess i should post my stick.
stick and the full thing which is still in my garage unfinished (minicab project for 'sculpture' class last year, good ol conceptual art. or something):

http://chefbox.com:800/~brian/pictures/setup6.jpghttp://chefbox.com:800/~brian/pictures/setup2.jpg

its a competition w/ultimates. im thinking about making another stand alone one w/horizontal switch pushbuttons, the base doesnt have to be as tall to accomodate the wiring. didnt use them here because they were too loose for my liking (there are stiffer microswitches that feel a lot better imo, i have them on my other stick). the ultimates are also taller (above the surface, the 'plunger' i think), which is my main complaint about them. anyways enough blabbering and on to this:

http://chefbox.com:800/~brian/art/wiring.jpg

the 15 pin connector thingy specifically. i have ps and dc controllers hacked up to connect to it. ive been thinking about replacing it with a vga connector (smaller, easier to connect, readily available cables to use). course i spent a crapload on these already (damn you overpriced electronics store).

and as for that other stick i mentioned:

http://chefbox.com:800/~brian/pictur.../installed.jpg

that wooden surface would be my desk's keyboard tray. i used it as my test bed. its a super stick, horizontal switch pushbuttons. the green ones i bought at the local expensive electronics shop (long story dealing with sculpture class). theyre a little shorter, and they have stiffer cherry microswitches. and its using the same connector thingy. go interchangeability!

Okay now I'm sorry that I missed this thread the first time so I've gotta catch up.

Where do you get the sticks and buttons for this stuff?
Would I be able to do it with a USB PC controller? (I'm getting all school girlish thinking about it.)
How much would this project run me (estimate,) including the cost of the sodering thing but not the controller.
Would it be possible to make one unit to work with multiple interfaces? (i.e. Xbox, PSX, etc)

Japtor: Your stuff kicks ass!

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Originally posted by ShineAqua
Where do you get the sticks and buttons for this stuff?

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www.happcontrols.com

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Would I be able to do it with a USB PC controller? (I'm getting all school girlish thinking about it.)

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I would imagine so. I'd have to open one up to be 100% positive, but I so no reason otherwise.

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How much would this project run me (estimate,) including the cost of the sodering thing but not the controller.

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Stick $14x1, buttons $1.50x7 (six plus start) to 10 (eight plus start and select), wood $4.75x2, soldering gun $7.99, wire $3, extra solder (though I still have only used the solder that came with my gun) $4 = @ $48.99

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Would it be possible to make one unit to work with multiple interfaces? (i.e. Xbox, PSX, etc)

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If you have a Magic Box or a controller adapter.

my turn to answer the exact same questions (woo for repetitiveness)

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Would I be able to do it with a USB PC controller? (I'm getting all school girlish thinking about it.)

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yes, but some controllers are more of a bitch than others. i was gonna hack up my old usb gamepad pro, but i couldnt really figure it out (without doing separate ground wires for every single button). i heard some ms sidewinders are easy to do it on though.

for the cost, yeah under $50 is more or less right. id say down to $30 minimum if you can get good deals. i had to buy some tools myself though. and i think i got my buttons for $1 each. and i bought a huge ass chunk of wood that i used for everything (still got a bit left to do on the minicab actually). think it was 1/2" medium density fiberboard, somewhere around 8'x4' or so (at least). it was under $20 i believe.

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Would it be possible to make one unit to work with multiple interfaces? (i.e. Xbox, PSX, etc)

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yeah (check out my last post above). depending on what systems you plan to use it with, the best (well easiest) way would be to just do a psx controller (i highly suggest the old madcatz psx pads) and buy ps adapters for other systems. if you want to use it for a system w/no ps adapter (such as saturn), then youll have to make a separate controller hack for that.

Woo hoo I'm such a n00b, so here's stupid n00b question # 1:
What the fuck is a Magic Box:wtf:?
stupid n00b question # 2:
Edit: Answered, Competition buttons it is.
stupid n00b question # 3
Edit: Answered, Competition stick it is.
stupid n00b question # 4
Mech can you please take a close up of the PCB where the ground is attached so I know which the ground is?
Woo Hoo, I'm back to being me til I have more stupid n00b questions.

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Originally posted by ShineAqua
What the fuck is a Magic Box:wtf:?

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A device for the XBox that let's you use PS, DC or Saturn controllers with the XBox.

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Mech can you please take a close up of the PCB where the ground is attached so I know which the ground is?

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I would love to, but until I figure out how to manually adjust the zoom on the resident digital camera it will be too blurry to make anything out. On a (mine) PS controller, if you take a look a look at each connection point you'll see one side has a very thin lead that trails to the center of the controller, while the other leads to an area along the outside edge that all the buttons connect to. The inside trail is the trigger point, and the outside is the ground.

This will differ a bit from controller to controller, but take a look at the first link in my first post for some closeup pictures to help a bit. He only used a main ground and then trailed that to all the buttons, while I did a ground wire for each individual point.

You know, people always talk about how cheap and easy it is to make a good arcade stick, yet when you get a place to build you one, it's $100 bucks.

If anyone were so inclined, they could probably make some cash building sticks and selling them to tnl'ers that either do not have the time or the skill necessary to do it themselves.

HINT HINT HINT

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Originally posted by GohanX
If anyone were so inclined, they could probably make some cash building sticks and selling them to tnl'ers that either do not have the time or the skill necessary to do it themselves.

HINT HINT HINT

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One person already thought of this and has contacted me, and I'm currently looking into a solid price and shipping costs. I'm clearly not the best, but my sticks do work perfectly fine and I'm up for more. Perhaps some would want to contact Japtor or someone who has more experience and/or makes better cases, otherwise feel free to PM me.

As for the inflated price, a lot of places probably do it for a living and need the extra cash. It's comparativily cheap to build your own, but still not as low as the cheaply made third-party sticks.

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You know, people always talk about how cheap and easy it is to make a good arcade stick, yet when you get a place to build you one, it's $100 bucks.

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to their defense (other than doing it for a living as mech said), look at many home made sticks, then compare them to the expensive commercial ones. there is a large difference in polish for the most part (although i have seen some really really nice home made ones that look better than commercial sticks).

as for selling any myself, right now im not sure. before i do that i want to polish up the process so it almost becomes like an automated task for myself (all that stuff in those pictures, including the cab, were done in around 2 days, maybe 6-8 hours per day, it was a rush job). i got a bunch of plans for improvements, but no clue when im gonna do another stick. i should just stockpile a bunch of parts at least.

as for soldering and stuff, ive been thinking about making a ghetto 'soldering for dummies' guide or something (just for pad hacking of course). thats pretty much where i was when i started. ive seen a few gamepads and know some generic styles by now. if i remember to do it i might have something to put up tomorrow.

Ah, I forgot about this thread before posting my own.

Japtor, did you ever get around to cutting up your gamepad pro?

damn. blast from the past :P

i had a ps->usb adapter so i just use my hacked ps pad with that. i gave up on the gamepad pro and just put it back together (didnt try soldering anything cause i couldnt figure out for sure if it could be done with a single ground). with like 2 extra screws. it still works so whatever. should the other joystick thread be merged with this one?

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Originally Posted by japtor

damn. blast from the past :P
should the other joystick thread be merged with this one?

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Perhaps, but since it contains little new information, the mods can just delete it.

Anyhow, I ordered from http://www.therealbobroberts.com who seems to have a good reputation from rec.games.video.arcade.*. The process is slower because he doesn't take credit cards, but I paid about about $15 less than I would have from Happ.

Thanks for all the info I will use this thread!