Affirmative Action? For/Against?

when did I ever say I didn't care for AA because it'll end the white race, or shafts the 'poor' white man?

I just think everyone should be based on merit, not color. For OR against.

Like in that ethics class...I remember telling them how I got the crap kicked out of me on more than one occassion, the only reason given that I was 'fucking whitey' or something similar to.

The class laughed.

I don't understand - basing decisions on color should be short-sighted in EVERY SENSE, especially those that are violent, harmful, etc.

That's all I want. I want people to be looked at by merit. A jerk is a jerk, one color or another, just like upstanding people should be just that.

Hero - I'm against AA because I think it's racist, and because I think it hurts the people it tries to help. Hell, even if you were okay with color-based governmental programs, there'd be a good reason to be against Affirmative Action - it simply doesn't work.

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Originally posted by Calliander
What it all boils down to is that I hate the white man, and any time he gets the short end of the stick, I want to have a party.

Anyone who disagrees or is white themselves can have a nice punch in the balls.

:p

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I am assuming that this is sarcasm at its finest, but it is a great example of an up-and-coming double-standard. If someone did a find and replace on white with black, he would be branded a racist. However, saying the same about a white man is "humor".

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Originally posted by Calliander
Hell yeah. Damn the white man and his neverending efforts to keep us down!

I say we take to the streets and burn down any buildings flying the Confederate flag. Damn honkeys and their symbols of oppression flapping out in the wind for everyone to see!

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And again, now complete with a slur.

Are you pro-AA people telling us that minorities cannot compete on equal ground? Think before you answer.

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Originally posted by Stone
Hero - I'm against AA because I think it's racist, and because I think it hurts the people it tries to help. Hell, even if you were okay with color-based governmental programs, there'd be a good reason to be against Affirmative Action - it simply doesn't work.

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Two things:

1. You say Affirmative Action simply doesn't work. Can you provide hard proof? I haven't read any yet in this thread. I'm not trying to instigate anything, simply saying that if you're gonna say something that bold, you gotta deliver.

Plus, I'd actually like to see this proof. Seriously.

2. You also said "...I think it hurts the people it tries to help." Are you a person this program tries to help? Do you know any people this program has helped personally? If you don't, that statement holds absolutely no water. That's like me going to another country and telling their people how I think they should live without once even stepping foot there. Please tell me you do, because otherwise I laugh at that statement.

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Originally posted by SonofdonCD
You say Affirmative Action simply doesn't work. Can you provide hard proof? I haven't read any yet in this thread. I'm not trying to instigate anything, simply saying that if you're gonna say something that bold, you gotta deliver.

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I'd say the burden of proof is on the pro-AA people, since they are supporting the unnatural side. Removing affirmative action would just restore the logical acceptance/promotion based on merit.

If the aim of affirmative action is to get underrepresented minorities into college, than it does work.

Whether you agree with it or not is an entirely different story.

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Originally posted by Master
If the aim of affirmative action is to get underrepresented minorities into college, than it does work.

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I disagree. The attractive women minority was greatly under-represented at the largely engineering school I attended. I feel let down by AA.

Your problem is that you're in an engineering school.

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Originally posted by Shin Johnpv
your not basing it on Frats around the country but on one school you have to deal with
just because they act one way in your area doesnt hold true for all of them through out the country
thats being ignorant right there
basing your opinion on all through out the country based on just the ones from your school
theres going to be extremes in anycase just because you deal with one extreme doesnt make all of them like that
you dont want prejudice but you continue to promote it
its do as you say dont do as you do
hipocrite

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I can see you're as thick-headed as ever. How can I make this easy for you to understand. I don't want prejudice, but at least I can admit that I do have my own prejudices. It's a shortcoming that I deal with and going through life, I've been working to become less ethnocentric. Ethnocentricity is a natural human trait. I don't think I need to base my prejudices on anything, but my own experiences. And it has been my experience that frat guys are jerks...kind of like you. You make my point nicely for me. Be gone wit you!

SC

A program based on making judgements by race is not part of a solution to discrimination. It is simply one of the problems that must be eventually weeded out by such a solution.

Anyways, most of us here believe in judgement based on merit right? And that while everyone should be able to make a path for themselves, some people start out in a situation where that may not be possible. You can see this in the past with children being forced into work when they're younger, or families that will not be able to afford to send their children to school. So we have public compulsory education. In some areas schools underperform, implying that the government recognizes some sort of minimal standard and that some schools do not meet this standard. Raising what that standard is, and helping schools meet it should be the limit of a program working to help out people that may not have a fair break as far as education goes. How this will be done, I don't know. Changing the way it is determined schools get money, other things, there are people that understand it far more than I. I think more work should be done to improve this minimal acceptable standard, and that , at most, how the school someone goes to performs may be acceptable as part of the consideration involved in reviewing applicants. I don't think it should be based on race. I don't believe in supporting a program such as affirmative action simply because I'd be one of the beneficiaries.

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And I really don't dig the wealth-distribution thing, because I believe enough in charity of people and the core humanity of helping others that I don't think a person's income needs to be strongarmed.

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Money is pulled from a collection of the "people's" money for a variety of non social programs. In the end, they're all supported by the idea that they are so necessary that they must be supported somehow. Some people see this for welfare, others the military, others. . .cheese.

"This is a government of the people."

"Its a proven fact that the people will not support a government voluntarily."

I don't remember who I heard this from, but it was the same guy that said both.