Affirmative Action? For/Against?

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Originally posted by Hero
I don't see what would be so wrong with having college apps that have NOTHING mentioning race, because then a person is rated by their merit, not by their color.

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Well, I do see the value of a multi-cultural, multi-racial, multi-economic-basis student body. In theory, I kind of like the fact that my university isn't 96% WASP/Italian Catholic, like my high-school. People with different histories act, talk, think differently - it adds value to my classroom experience.

In practice, however, the artificial multi-X-ness of the student body doesn't really show up. We have these things called "Program Houses" which amount to voluntary segregation, basically: a place called Ak:we:kon for Native Americans, Ujamaa for African Americans. We have an Africana Center, where they teach all of the Afro-American studies classes. There are hundreds of Asian social groups on campus populated almost entirely by Asians. Religious Jews have Hillel, the Jewish living center.

And, in my English classes, it's basically every bit as white as my high school. The one class I took in Afro-American studies was 90% Black. So, despite attempts to multi-culturalize the student body, despite the value of those attempts, most of it doesn't amount to much. Shame.

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On a personal note, decreasing the percentage of whites in college isn't neccessarily a bad thing. There are a lot of people I see who shouldn't even be there. Frat guys especially.

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Are they nazis, too? Maybe they're fascists. Hey, everyone, you wanted to see reverse racism? Spacecowboy just defined it for us.

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Originally posted by spacecowboy
...it seems I may have a little more knowledge in this area.

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Why... because you're black?

Please don't let this thread get as stupid as I think its about to...

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Originally posted by Stone
1.) There's the possibility that you might just create another underclass, one made of people rejected in favor of minorities.

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In all seriousness Stone, do you REALLY see this happening with affirmative action as it stands today? In fact, let me ask you - you go to Cornell, a place with, I assume, a lot of wealthy rich white kids. How many of those white kids have been screwed out of a job or admission to a college because they're white? In what way are their opportunities lessened because they are white?

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Against. Everyone should be judged according to their own abilities and not the color of their skin.

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No offense Jimmy, but its easy to say when you live in a state that is almost 90% white

All in all, Im in favor of affirmative action. I know, I know, a lot of people bring up "reverse racism", and Im sure that may happen here or there... but in all seriousness, how much can it happen really? Can it compare to all the racism that blacks and latinos face? Hardly. White people have it good in the USA. Blacks and Latinos... not so much. There is a very real class system in America, and race makes up a large part of it.

I mean, Im in Los Angeles, the most diverse city in the country, if not the world, and I swear to you all the people I see scrubbing the toilets and cleaning bathrooms are latinos, all the people driving buses are black, etc. How many black people do you think live in Bel-Air? How many blacks attend Harvard-Westlake (a tip-top private HS here)? I hope you see my point.

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diffusionx
How many of those white kids have been screwed out of a job or admission to a college because they're white? In what way are their opportunities lessened because they are white?

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That's pretty much what I feel. It's like, yeah, you have the people whose feelings are hurt because they didn't get into some presitigious school. But it's not like a school sends you a letter saying, "Sorry, you were too white for us." No, you get a piece of paper (sometimes two) thanking you for your interest in the school but sadly informing you in the nicest way possible that they don't want you.

That's why I say, "Dad obviously wasn't more qualified." Dad can't call up the business he didn't get the job at ask why he wasn't hired over that black guy. All we really know about Affirmative Action in the job market is that it's there. Do businesses have a point system like schools?

However, what Stone says is also very true. After all the talk about equality in schools, you see all of these groups which amount to voluntary segregation. That, though, doesn't mean that AA's efforts have gone to shame - the people are still getting their education (hopefully). The people just aren't reaping the benefits of the diversity by mingling more.

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Stone
And, in my English classes, it's basically every bit as white as my high school. The one class I took in Afro-American studies was 90% Black. So, despite attempts to multi-culturalize the student body, despite the value of those attempts, most of it doesn't amount to much. Shame.

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That is a shame. How about math or science classes? Things other than English and History (subjects which have a very limited range - for example, ask most people what someone who majors in either of those could do and they'll respond, "Um... teach?") might be a better indication. Shit, I don't even know what you can do with an English degree! And I think you've explained some things to me, too, Stone.

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Stone
Are they nazis, too? Maybe they're fascists. Hey, everyone, you wanted to see reverse racism? Spacecowboy just defined it for us.

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SC could have made the point with different words, but I've gotta agree with him, man. Fuck frat boys. After sitting through the ridicule of people who eventually joined fraternities all the way up into our Senior year of high school, I care nothing for the idea. Of course, this is coming from the same guy who doesn't understand wanting to exclude women from things, so take it how you will. ;)

To finish off with some humor, and to twist a quote from Goldmember: There are only two things I hate; those who are intolerant of other people's cultures........and Native Americans!

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Originally posted by diffusionx
No offense Jimmy, but its easy to say when you live in a state that is almost 90% white

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You're arguing against the principle of equal rights. That's shocking and saddening, really.

Yes, Minnesota is largely white. But guess what? The colleges here are filled with minorities. You go to the U Twin Cities and the place is filled with asians and other minorities. Much moreso than the actual percentage that Affirmitive Action is supposed to fix.

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All in all, Im in favor of affirmative action. I know, I know, a lot of people bring up "reverse racism", and Im sure that may happen here or there... but in all seriousness, how much can it happen really? Can it compare to all the racism that blacks and latinos face? Hardly. White people have it good in the USA. Blacks and Latinos... not so much. There is a very real class system in America, and race makes up a large part of it.

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"Reverse racism" is a phrase used to lighten the load. It's blatant racism flat out. It is judging by ethnicity and skin color.

Racism: racial prejudice or discrimination

Discrimination: the act, practice, or an instance of discriminating categorically rather than individually

"Weeding out" white people or asians is blatant discrimination. You cannot deny this, because it is true. And if you accept Webster's definition of racism and descrimination, then you cannot deny that affirmitive action is racism.

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I mean, Im in Los Angeles, the most diverse city in the country, if not the world, and I swear to you all the people I see scrubbing the toilets and cleaning bathrooms are latinos, all the people driving buses are black, etc. How many black people do you think live in Bel-Air? How many blacks attend Harvard-Westlake (a tip-top private HS here)? I hope you see my point.

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I live in Elk River, Minnesota and everyone scrubbing toilets and doing janitor work is white. Such jobs are dictated by populous.

I do see the point you're trying to make and believe it or not, I see the point of affirmative action. I just don't agree, because by agreed-on standards, it's racism. I don't judge anyone based on color, ethnicity or previous nationality. I judge people based on who they are and when it comes to hiring, their abilities.

What about Affirmative Action for Ninjas?

Ninjas are so awesome when they play their guitars, yet how many totally sweet Ninjas do you see in bands - or, for that matter, on television programs? All My Ninjas? Sadly, no. Help a Ninja get a job, support Affirmative Action for Ninjas.

I"m for this policy.

I think it's horribly unfair if someone gets into a school when they are more qualified than a person who did get in. Same thing with Jobs. Race shouldn't be an object in the decision process at all.

Against. Thankfully I live in a state without that policy in its schools.

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Originally posted by Calliander
What about Affirmative Action for Ninjas?

Ninjas are so awesome when they play their guitars, yet how many totally sweet Ninjas do you see in bands - or, for that matter, on television programs? All My Ninjas? Sadly, no. Help a Ninja get a job, support Affirmative Action for Ninjas.

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Ninjas have Real Ultimate Power. But they don't need Affirmative Action. If they don't get in, they'll flip out and kill someone who did. Then there is a spot open for them. Ninja's are cool and by cool I mean totally sweet. :lol:

SC

BTW 88mph, I'm not black. My father is Iranian and my mother is as white as you can get. Almost too white, if that's possible. And another thing, does 88mph refer to the band on the Mykel and Carli tribute album? The song they sing is pretty sweet, but it's kind of hard to hear.