The platformers that get LITTLE/NO respect

Hello, I'm new here to the TNL boards...

I like platformers, but I have never understood why some are practically worshipped while others are discarded without so much as a look.

Vexx is a great example of a more than ample platformer with a GREAT soundtrack, huge lush areas (see Xbox:), yet rarely scores higher than 6-7/10, yet it easily deserves a 9/10 IMO. Sad too, b/c I think far too many people actually (*gasp*) listen to what reviewers have to say (at least they listen TOO closely to what they say). That whole business with "the camera" got so blown out of kilter with each passing review you'd think the camera was constantly swirling around the character... even when Vexx is standing still. Seems to me, a lot of mags judge a game like Vexx initially depending on what the character "looks" like in screens beforehand, after that, the mind is made up that the game is "generic" long before they ever play it.

Then on the other side of the coin lies the Ratchet and Clanks, again an adequate platformer, but from the adulation it gets you'd think it was the first 3d platformer ever. Oh, you mean it has weapons? Guess that explains it... Best. Platformer. Ever.

Meh. While Vexx was good by Acclaim's standards (I was truthfully hoping that it would be a great game), the actual gameplay of the thing falls flat for me. Vexx' movement is very sluggish and that bothers me. It is not a bad game at all, it's just not exceptionally good.
Personally, I like Sly Cooper. It's no slacker in the challenge department, which is always a plus, and it also doesn't have 53 things to collect in every level. That was a flaw of Donkey Kong 64, which I consider to be the worst platformer ever. Not original in any respect and just TOO much stuff to do, most of which involved mini-games, which I loathed.

Oh, and welcome, n00b.
Be prepared to get assaulted by Photoshopped newbie pics.

vexx sucks... I dunno if its a platformer per se, but Fur Fighters is a fucking great game that nobody really cared about.

Oh, and...

Vexx suuuuuuuucks.

Oh, and welcome n00bie, you have found TNL.

*edit* Damn, you stole my post, Diff.

I loved Sly also, but funny thing, if you played far enough into Vexx you'd see actual "precise jumping"... you know, like a "platformer". Sly seemed like a slick/great package mixed with all sorts of stuff, but for some reason I don't remember much jumping... aside from the cool balancing stuff that was pretty much automatic. Sly is a great game and if I had to call it something I guess I would call it a platformer, but it seems like it's missing the heart of a true platformer.

Fur Fighters, that game seemed hard, the control scheme would throw me off.

http://www.intermediadesign.com/junk/zelda.jpg

Welcome to TNL :D

Personally, I think one of the most underrated platformers recently was Blinx.

I thought it was hard, it was innovative, it rewarded replay, the game was good looking and it seriously allowed for some thought and freedom in the way you tackled the level.

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Originally posted by negitoro
Personally, I think one of the most underrated platformers recently was Blinx.

I thought it was hard, it was innovative, it rewarded replay, the game was good looking and it seriously allowed for some thought and freedom in the way you tackled the level.

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Yay! I thought I was the only Blinx defender on this board. :)

The design of the main character was bland. Vexx is supposed to have razor sharp claws and be vicious, yet they still tried to insue the cuddly little bugger look in him. That was a mistake, firstly. Secondly, the gameplay mechanics weren't as strong as something like a Mario, which ALL platformers are benchmarked against.

It is entirely possible to jump and shoot quakes at the ground, killing the stupid enemies who just keep coming back until they're killed. Poor design.

I haven't played enough of the game to warrant a full review, mind you, so don't expect one from me. But I also played enough of the game that I know I'd rather be playing something else, which isn't good.

If you want to be violent, if you want to be the anti-Hero of a platformer, then do it all the way, make the game M like Conker, and make the levels equally as interesting.

The game is a 6 to me.

I'm sorry but I have yet to see a 3D platformer that didn't suck in some way. I've never even heard of this "Vexx" of which you speak but it's already suffering from the duofold kisses of death:

1- it's a 3D platformer. Boo!
2- it's on that one system with all the horsepower but none of the games.

Pa

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Originally posted by PaCrappa
I'm sorry but I have yet to see a 3D platformer that didn't suck in some way. I've never even heard of this "Vexx" of which you speak but it's already suffering from the duofold kisses of death:

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I'm with PaCrappa...I still sort of cringe when those games are referred to as "platformers" and not "3D platformers".

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Originally posted by Stone
I'm with PaCrappa...I still sort of cringe when those games are referred to as "platformers" and not "3D platformers".

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But why ? All other 3D games keep the genre's of their 2D counterparts, why shouldn't platformers ?

The phasing out of the "3D" part is what bothers me, you know, the blurring of the differences - like people calling FPSs "shooters". Grouchy luddite-gamer stuff.

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Originally posted by PaCrappa

1- it's a 3D platformer. Boo!

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Ratchet & Clank? Maximo? Mario 64? :wtf:

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2- it's on that one system with all the horsepower but none of the games.

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All of them? :wtf:

Knuckles Chaotix gets knocked a whole lot... I loved it, personally.

Sonic Crackers alpha, though... ewwww.

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Originally posted by Andy
All of them? :wtf:

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Zing.

GV4L mentioned Xbox so PaCrappa thought that it was only on that system. PaCrappa being one of those who knows just enough to know "there are no good games on the Xbox" without the cumbersome disadvantage of actually knowing what games are in fact on the Xbox.

"Ratchet & Clank? Maximo? Mario 64?"
All suck. Especially that first one..... truly abysmal.

"All of them?"

Suck. Except for Gun Valkyrie and Orta. I haven't played enough JSRF to make the call but based on what I did play, have seen and know has been removed from and "added" to I think it's gonna suck.

Sorry everyone, I think the XBOX's lineup of software sucks. Fancy graphics and overrepresentation of tired "genres of the day" doesn't make me feel like I need to buy a system. I do own the three games I mentioned above but with only three must have games I "must have" price drops down to about fifty bucks before I'll be buying the hardware.

Pa

To me, Ratchet & Clank and Sly Cooper were 2 the most fun and innovative platformers(or 3D platformers for those who cant handle platformer genre mentioned in one sentence with 3D ;)) I played in a LONG time. I havent played Vexx yet, but I will give it a try someday.

Well, actually, does MDK2 count? That game is so good.

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2- it's on that one system with all the horsepower but none of the games.

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Vexx is multi-platform.

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Originally posted by PaCrappa
"All of them?"

Suck.

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He meant the consoles. As in Vexx is on all of them. :rolleyes:

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Originally posted by diffusionx
Fur Fighters is a fucking great game that nobody really cared about.

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Damn straight, one of the best damn games on the Dreamcast.It was almost universally snubbed by the critics, saying shit like "The levels are too long, waa waa". I bet none of those critics even made it past the fist new york style world, because right after that is the Beaver Dam, which is fucking incredible.



I am currently playing through the PS2 rev, they added some new quirks to it, but it's still worth getting, since it can be had for cheap.

I hate nitpicking, but do MDK2 and Fur Fighters really qualify as platformers? Personally, I'd call them both action games with platforming elements.....but if you wanna call them platformers, I shall then call GunValkyrie a platformer too.

But I agree wholeheartedly on both their excellentness, regardless of genrefication.

Fur Fighters in particular has to be one of the most unjustly ignored games of the current era. The ingenuity (esp. the level designs) weas just amazing. Bizarre Creations can excel at more than just Kudos-based racing - too bad we'll probably never see a sequel.

MDK2 is my favorite DC game, and one of the best 3D games I've yet played.

Yeah, but the cel-shading looks like shit, though, right?
That's why I'm sticking to my DC copy.
...which I have yet to finish.
Bah.

It's not the cel shading that's weird, it's the fact that they gave all the characters voices that throws me off. In comparison, the cel shading is fine. But yeah, the DC version looked incredible sans cel shading.

Remeber god machine valley with the gigantic construction machines, or the dinosaur world with the MASSIVE enviroments? Incredible game. I beat the DC version, but I didn't finish it %100.

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Originally posted by BioMechanic
I hate nitpicking, but do MDK2 and Fur Fighters really qualify as platformers? Personally, I'd call them both action games with platforming elements.....but if you wanna call them platformers, I shall then call GunValkyrie a platformer too.

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Halo is the best platformer evar.

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Originally posted by MonsterMash
Halo is the best platformer evar.

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It's a better platformer than Blinx, anyway. :chick:

Aha... I stand corrected. All consoles do not suck. I had never heard of Vexx before this thread because it's precisely the sort of thing that doesn't catch my attention. XBOX was mentioned and I assumed it was exclusive. That was dumb and and I've certainly made an ass out of me but not u. Of course what I assumed first was that this thread would be about the kind of platformers that I like. I'm sorry for both. I'm even sorry I went on a rant about my personal taste regarding the XBOX!

And while I'm being all apologetic and whatnot I'll say that Maximo and Mario 64 are on the high side of sucking and moving into the bearable category. I do own both :)

Pa

If you like the kinda 3D Platformer thing, you should really try Ty the Tazmanian Tiger. It's a sold game with personallity and it delivers the fun.

I've heard many of you complain about the character design in Ty, but not many of you seem to have tried it. Give it a shot.

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Originally posted by PaCrappa
Aha... I stand corrected. All consoles do not suck. I had never heard of Vexx before this thread because it's precisely the sort of thing that doesn't catch my attention. XBOX was mentioned and I assumed it was exclusive. That was dumb and and I've certainly made an ass out of me but not u. Of course what I assumed first was that this thread would be about the kind of platformers that I like. I'm sorry for both. I'm even sorry I went on a rant about my personal taste regarding the XBOX!

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You're forgiven. ;)

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Originally posted by BenT
It's a better platformer than Blinx, anyway. :chick:

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Haha Zing to me! (Although your use of chicken confuses us.) Blinx really isn't a platformer anyway - more of a puzzle/action/..platformer. Besides, your dislike is beneficial to us, it is our precious, and you can't haves it!

:D

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Originally posted by PaCrappa I'm even sorry I went on a rant about my personal taste regarding the XBOX!

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No, no. Don't apologize. There's not enough talk around these parts about how much the Xbox sucks. I SALUTE YOU.

Xbox sucks.

I hate 3d platformers. Unless they star fat plumbers they're the absolute pits. So I'll pretend this thread is about 2d platformers and mention Go Go Beckham. Best Yoshi's Island clone ever. It only needs two things: Posh Spice, and a U.S. release. It's the tops.

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Originally posted by Captain Vegetable


I've heard many of you complain about the character design in Ty, but not many of you seem to have tried it. Give it a shot.

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this is the way of tnl, if it is not a game in which you fly foreward and shoot idiotic numbers of enemies, it is 1337'd.

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Originally posted by frostwolf ex
this is the way of tnl, if it is not a game in which you fly foreward and shoot idiotic numbers of enemies, it is 1337'd.

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Don't I know it. :(

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Originally posted by MonsterMash
Haha Zing to me! (Although your use of chicken confuses us.) Blinx really isn't a platformer anyway - more of a puzzle/action/..platformer.

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Blinx is very much a platformer... in fact, it's got some very challenging platformer moments, some of which use the time mechanics and some which involve the skilled jumping onto *gasp* actual platforms. :D

I mean, the action and puzzle aspects of Blinx are really no more advanced than the established 2D platformers. Blinx is as much a platformer as any other platformer in 3D generation. And while it isn't the best game in the world, it's definitely severly underrated IMO.

Blinx is the biggest pile of trash platformer I've ever played. The game is rarely any fun to actually play, and the time controlling stuff ends up as more of a gimmick than anything else. Sly Cooper was one of the most refreshing platformers in quite some time.

I didn't care that much for Vexx. I thought it was absolutely horrible when I played the demo. Then I played/saw a little of a friends copy and it seemed ok to me. I still didn't like it that much...I mostly hated the character design. Overall, from what I have seen I think its about a 7...At least its better than Mario Sunshine.

As for a platformer that I really like, I would have to go with Super Magnetic Neo. It was a fantastic game. I am not sure if it was really over looked though because all my friends and I absolutely loved the game. Did anybody else like this game, or was it mostly overlooked as well?

Is this thread only about 3d platformers? I think one of the most underappreciated platformers (but i think generally liked) was Ristar! I love this game. It has like that element of wonder that Klonoa had. Best star faced creature-based platformer ever!

Also I'd like to know what your definition of platformer is--like action vs mascot ones? I think MDK2 is one of the best (and most frustrating) 3d action platformers ever.

Designers like Jason Rubin and Ted Price feel that they're moving away from making platformers, and instead label their creations as "character action games." I was kind of iffy on this at first, but Price pointed out that there really wasn't much focus on hardcore platforming, in, say, Ratchet & Clank. OTOH, Super Mario Sunshine had a ton. It's clear that both games have different focuses, and that Sunshine is much of a traditional platformer than Ratchet.

What do you all think of this?

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Originally posted by magnifiedplaid
As for a platformer that I really like, I would have to go with Super Magnetic Neo. It was a fantastic game. I am not sure if it was really over looked though because all my friends and I absolutely loved the game. Did anybody else like this game, or was it mostly overlooked as well?

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Here you go.

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Originally posted by Regus
Damn straight, one of the best damn games on the Dreamcast.It was almost universally snubbed by the critics, saying shit like "The levels are too long, waa waa". I bet none of those critics even made it past the fist new york style world, because right after that is the Beaver Dam, which is fucking incredible.

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If it makes you feel better, a certain Dave Halverson praised the shit out of it. Didn't like the game myself, but to each his own.

Hey there MxPx, I know YOU! Anyway, IMO you haven't seen enough of Vexx to have a valid opinion, just as I hadn't (at one time) seen enough of SMS, now that I have, I feel like I am recovering from some bad case of foot in mouth disease. I say give a platformer such as these at least 2 hours to see how you feel about the universe and characters. Don't just write off a game because of reactions to character designs! Even the mighty GV took me about this long to warm up to and it became my fave game ever (Orta being so very close). Of coarse some games are easy slamdunks that you know you like right away, things just click, but sometimes a little patience goes a long way:) Great to bring up Neo, another game that is overlooked. I shrugged it off till I gave it chance, fantastic concepts go a long way...

So do you like Mario Sunshine Gunvalkyrie?

Thats cool to know that at least some people enjoy this game...

I still can't get into Sunshine because it feels like it is stuck in the past. It saddens me that it took them a good six years to make a game that is inferior to even Mario 64 in almost every way.

In my opinion, most of the platformers that have been released after Mario 64 have surpased it in quality. However, it seems as if Nintendo felt that they could stay put and not improve Mario in any way and all the gamers would be happy with it. They were obviously wrong. Other platformers raised the bar and Mario Sunshine didn't even come close to it. Rayman 2 & 3, Sly Cooper, Super Magnetic Neo, Jak and Daxter, Banjo Kazooie (screw tooie), Klonoa 2, Sonic Adventure 1&2, and on and on. All these games improved on the 3-D platform genre, and I am sure I have missed tons of games. Personally, I even had more fun with Pac Man World 2 than I did with Mario Sunshine...

Mario 64 set the mark. It did provide a blue print for future 3-D platformers to follow. However, not only did future platformers follow the blue print but they also improved upon it (RAYMAN 2). Mario Sunshine didn't even accomplish being as good as the standard that was set with Mario 64. When Nintendo desperately needed another Mario game that would redefine the genre yet again, they failed. By failing they let many people down. I can only hope Nintendo will redeem themselves with Mario 128.

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Originally posted by magnifiedplaid
...Banjo Kazooie (screw tooie)...

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I can't believe you just said that. :wtf:

Oh! I almost forgot. In this new Mario, I want to be shot out of cannons and I want to wear hats with wings on them.

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Originally posted by Captain Vegetable
I can't believe you just said that. :wtf:

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I really really liked the original Banjo Kazooie. I am not sure if you mean you can't believe that I liked Banjo Kazooie OR you can't believe that I didn't like Bajo Tooie...

Well, I just didn't care for Tooie as much as Banjo Kazooie because it was just way too overblown. Rare went a little over board with Banjo Tooie. To me, Banjo Tooie is Donkey Kong 64's evil cousin. They are both good games (I would give them about 8's), but they are a little too big. I felt a little "overwhelmed" playing DK64 and Banjo Tooie. The worlds in Tooie seemed to be linked a bit oddly. I dont know...somehow, the fun just got sucked out of Tooie for me.....

Again, I am not saying it was a bad game. I just didn't find it as fun as the original.

I agree with the sentiments on Banjo-Tooie. I loved the first game to death, and then despised the second one due to all the extraneous shit added to it.

<--- Great 3D platformer :D

I'll have to pick Fur Fighters up sometime - I've always wanted to try it out, but pass on it based on the meh reviews. So, the general consensus is that the DC version is better?

And btw, Tooie kicks ass. It's much better than Kazooie. Better level design, more mini-games, first-person shooter segments, a crapload of different playable characters...the game is great.

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Originally posted by Tyler_Durden
And btw, Tooie kicks ass. It's much better than Kazooie. Better level design, more mini-games, first-person shooter segments, a crapload of different playable characters...the game is great.

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Nicely said. ;)

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Originally posted by magnifiedplaid
I really really liked the original Banjo Kazooie. I am not sure if you mean you can't believe that I liked Banjo Kazooie OR you can't believe that I didn't like Bajo Tooie...

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I couldn't believe you thought Tooie was crap.

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Well, I just didn't care for Tooie as much as Banjo Kazooie because it was just way too overblown. Rare went a little over board with Banjo Tooie. To me, Banjo Tooie is Donkey Kong 64's evil cousin. They are both good games (I would give them about 8's), but they are a little too big. I felt a little "overwhelmed" playing DK64 and Banjo Tooie. The worlds in Tooie seemed to be linked a bit oddly. I dont know...somehow, the fun just got sucked out of Tooie for me.....

Again, I am not saying it was a bad game. I just didn't find it as fun as the original.

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Fair enough. ;)

Tyler_Durden, you reminded me! I can't believe I forgot to mention Conkers Bad Fur Day when I was listing great platformers!!! Its quite possibly my favorite 3-D platformer ever, and its one of my top three Nintendo 64 games. I think the top three games for the N64, in no particular order are Paper Mario, Conkers Bad Fur Day, and Legend Of Zelda Ocarina of time. I can't believe I forgot Conker...Thank You for pointing out my error in forgetting to mention it!

Conker's Bad Fur Day. I loved this one. Too bad it sold like shit. Its the most under appreciated game ever. Tons of variety and no collection useless bullshit items all the goddamn time. Plus is was damn hilarious. Monty Python hilarious. The game was one of the best. Ratchet, Jak, and Sly just seem so BLAH.

HEY RARE!, FUCK THAT GAYHOMO BANJO and concentrate on Conker.

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Originally posted by BenT
Designers like Jason Rubin and Ted Price feel that they're moving away from making platformers, and instead label their creations as "character action games." I was kind of iffy on this at first, but Price pointed out that there really wasn't much focus on hardcore platforming, in, say, Ratchet & Clank. OTOH, Super Mario Sunshine had a ton. It's clear that both games have different focuses, and that Sunshine is much of a traditional platformer than Ratchet.

What do you all think of this?

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I'd say that's true to a certain extent. I would still consider Ratchet & Clank a platform game, but it has a lot of adventure and exploration overtones that take it beyond just straightforward platforming. Sly Cooper is a good example of a recent game that adheres more to the traditional platform game structure, kind of like the first three Crash Bandicoot games on the PlayStation.

LOVE SMS. I've played a lot of 3d platformers in the past few months, and while some have been good, some even great, you can really tell the polish of the Big N. Though, in that same breath I must mention they actually NEED to be near perfect, in my opinion they are held and rightfully so to a higher standard since they have been around so long and have refined the formulas. Take a studio like Krome and the "Ty" game; I see it for what it is, a start-up company finding their way. Was it the greatest thing ever? Nope. But, it was worth my $19.99 and I think they did a good job getting their feet wet.

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Originally posted by negitoro
Personally, I think one of the most underrated platformers recently was Blinx.

I thought it was hard, it was innovative, it rewarded replay, the game was good looking and it seriously allowed for some thought and freedom in the way you tackled the level.

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You're kidding, right? If I was teaching a class I'd used Blinx as the perfect example of how not to make a platformer. I've played up to the ancient Egyptian area and with each new level there's at least one new stupid design decision or horribly thought out puzzle. The fact that half the much touted time controls are useless seems almost secondary.

Only in Bizarro world would Blinx be a good game... hmm, maybe that's why the cat 'language' is just Japanese played backwards... It is a game from Bizarro world!

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Originally posted by magnifiedplaid
So do you like Mario Sunshine Gunvalkyrie?

Thats cool to know that at least some people enjoy this game...

I still can't get into Sunshine because it feels like it is stuck in the past. It saddens me that it took them a good six years to make a game that is inferior to even Mario 64 in almost every way.

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Every way like?

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In my opinion, most of the platformers that have been released after Mario 64 have surpased it in quality. However, it seems as if Nintendo felt that they could stay put and not improve Mario in any way and all the gamers would be happy with it. They were obviously wrong. Other platformers raised the bar and Mario Sunshine didn't even come close to it. Rayman 2 & 3, Sly Cooper, Super Magnetic Neo, Jak and Daxter, Banjo Kazooie (screw tooie), Klonoa 2, Sonic Adventure 1&2, and on and on. All these games improved on the 3-D platform genre, and I am sure I have missed tons of games. Personally, I even had more fun with Pac Man World 2 than I did with Mario Sunshine...

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Amen! We all know that SA1 and *espically* 2 are much better than Sunshine and indeed contributed greatly to the 3D Platform genre. :wtf: You may not have liked Sunshine, I am not going to try and guess, but to call SA1 or 2 a better 3D platformer is to deny yourself any credibility. SA1 was great-ish, SA2 was total shit (excepting the Sonic levels) and both are inferior platformers to Sunshine. IMHO, of course. :D

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When Nintendo desperately needed another Mario game that would redefine the genre yet again, they failed. By failing they let many people down. I can only hope Nintendo will redeem themselves with Mario 128.

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It's awful hard to redefine a genre when there hasn't been a major hardware change. M64 came at the begining of this damned 3D era and until we hit something new and exciting things will be basically the same - 3D.

<l33tness>
Hell, give me a deep, difficult, beautiful hand drawn 2D platformer over this shit any day.
</l33tness>

#6

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Originally posted by soundwave
Is this thread only about 3d platformers? I think one of the most underappreciated platformers (but i think generally liked) was Ristar! I love this game. It has like that element of wonder that Klonoa had. Best star faced creature-based platformer ever!

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You beat me to it! I love Ristar. He's full of personality and the level design was great. The game was long and engaging as hell and the graphics rocked. The music was awesome too (Pray! Pray! Play! owns).

I became a member to this board mostly because of my tastes in games (READ: I am fodder for the mainstreams at GameFaqs, Halo, ugh) but also because I hoped this board was more about "gaming moxy" than "popularity", but I have to ask. When people on this board say game "A" is "shit" do they really think that their opinion is "right" and the other guys is wrong, or is it just some sort of mad oversight? I had hoped to find a board where people are open to others opinions on games or to have an exchange other than what you'd expect 2 kids to have on a playground over an EGM review. If I haven't yet found that board, or if no one here sees this as that kind of board, let me know.

Most folks around here are open to the opinions of others.

"Only in Bizarro world would Blinx be a good game... hmm, maybe that's why the cat 'language' is just Japanese played backwards... It is a game from Bizarro world!"

It's this and that SonicA2 crack that seem out of place on an honest forum. I think a true gamer would see the attempt at what was tried with Blinx and at least embrace the concept. But I guess it's easier to bash than to appreciate.

I'm so happy to see that GunValkyrie4Life is having a good time...

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Originally posted by Melf
You beat me to it! I love Ristar. He's full of personality and the level design was great. The game was long and engaging as hell and the graphics rocked. The music was awesome too (Pray! Pray! Play! owns).

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Ristar, Dynamite Headdy, and Tempo were the unsung platform heroes of the Sega Genesis and 32X.
It's a known fact.
Don't try to add Sparkster from Rocket Knight Adventures in there, either. At least he got a sequal.

I'm more than willing to "embrace the concept" as long as the concept is executed well. In Blinx's case, it wasn't. I wrote a rare negative review due to that game.

*GunValkyrie4Life makes his usual big splash in a wading pool...* :(

Jeremy, what you are saying are total opposites though. Embracing the concept alone means it doesn't have to be executed perfectly... "I don't mind paying for my dinner as long as it doesn't cost me anything." That's what I hear in that comment.

Call me "From the Land of Easily Entertained" but the first time I witnessed slow-mo in Blinx, I thought, FINALLY someone has attempted more than finding "3 bananas to put in a ladies basket." More than finding this key, for that key hole... more than trying to win a contest to get a star.

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Originally posted by GunValkyrie4Life
I became a member to this board mostly because of my tastes in games (READ: I am fodder for the mainstreams at GameFaqs, Halo, ugh) but also because I hoped this board was more about "gaming moxy" than "popularity", but I have to ask. When people on this board say game "A" is "shit" do they really think that their opinion is "right" and the other guys is wrong, or is it just some sort of mad oversight? I had hoped to find a board where people are open to others opinions on games or to have an exchange other than what you'd expect 2 kids to have on a playground over an EGM review. If I haven't yet found that board, or if no one here sees this as that kind of board, let me know.

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*Ahem*

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Originally posted by Six
IMHO, of course.

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You can extol the virtues of the "Find the Emerald!!" levels until you turn blue but it doesn't make them suck any less. And that's not IMHO :D As everyone, everywhere has stated before, the SA games are fun because of Sonic not some lame poorly designed characters pulled out of Sonic Teams ass (see everyone but Sonic and Tails (and for the love of god take Tails out of that *stupid* mech)).

I just hate seeing Sunshine thrashed because it seems cool to do so.

#6

I'll elaborate a bit. Blinx's concept of the time-based stuff was fantastic, IN THEORY. In execution, thanks in part to a clunky method of activation and minute usage of the time-based stuff ended up hurting the concept in execution.

GunValkyrie4Life's problem is that he wants everyone to have his opinion but call it there own... everyone needs to speak freely but if they don't agree with him they have a problem... whatever...

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Originally posted by Box Drink
GunValkyrie4Life's problem is that he wants everyone to have his opinion but call it there own... everyone needs to speak freely but if they don't agree with him they have a problem... whatever...

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Insecurity and overdefensiveness of the worth of one's opinion after trying to converse with the halfwits at GameFAQs, perhaps?

GV4L: Don't worry too much if the folks here don't agree with you. We're all fairly different and strongly opinionated folks here, which leads to us disagreeing occasionally. That just makes our conversations all the more interesting. ;)

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Originally posted by Regus
It's not the cel shading that's weird, it's the fact that they gave all the characters voices that throws me off. In comparison, the cel shading is fine. But yeah, the DC version looked incredible sans cel shading.

Remeber god machine valley with the gigantic construction machines, or the dinosaur world with the MASSIVE enviroments? Incredible game. I beat the DC version, but I didn't finish it %100.

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I also loved Fur Fighters. I have the PC version which is the best looking version of the bunch. Its like the DC version except I could jack up the res to 1600 x 1200 and enjoy all the gorgeous bump mapping, environment mapping, 32bit textures, super smooth frame rate (gotta be 60+ on my pc..dont know how smooth the DC version is)..just a beautiful looking game. And I really like the keyboard/mouse control..feels kinda like a first person shooter and it fits perfectly with the game.


I also love Rayman 2..another great 3d platformer (I have the pc version of this). Truly superior to the original ..though I have my doubts of part 3 it is only $20 so I'll pick that up someday.

Rayman 2 got kinda boring after a while... but Iwill agree that it was better than the original...

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Originally posted by Six
Every way like?

Amen! We all know that SA1 and *espically* 2 are much better than Sunshine and indeed contributed greatly to the 3D Platform genre. :wtf: You may not have liked Sunshine, I am not going to try and guess, but to call SA1 or 2 a better 3D platformer is to deny yourself any credibility. SA1 was great-ish, SA2 was total shit (excepting the Sonic levels) and both are inferior platformers to Sunshine. IMHO, of course. :D

It's awful hard to redefine a genre when there hasn't been a major hardware change. M64 came at the begining of this damned 3D era and until we hit something new and exciting things will be basically the same - 3D.

<l33tness>
Hell, give me a deep, difficult, beautiful hand drawn 2D platformer over this shit any day.
</l33tness>

#6

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Lets see if I can answer your questions:

1. First, I said ALMOST every way. NOT EVERY way. I say that Mario 64 is superior to Mario Sunshine in level design, gameplay mechanics, control, and ESPECIALLY fun factor. The only category that Sunshine is superior in is graphics, and that would have to be a given. A Gamecube game has better graphics than a N64 game. I didn't think I would have to say that because that equates to "no shit!" The level design in Mario Sunshine is VERY POOR. Its levels lack originality, innovation, and variety. Even though I was comparing the level designs of Mario 64 and SMS, I would like to bring up Sly Cooper as a game that IMO has good level design. All the levels in Sly have tons of personality and the atmosphere of the game varies greatly from level to level. From the rooftops at the beginning of the game, to the steam rooms, to the desert, to the swamp lands and back again Sly's levels were oozing with innovation. I loved sliding on the branches in the swamp lands on Sly. With Mario Sunshine we get tropical paradise city, tropical paradise beach, tropical paradise, and tropical paradise amusement park and so on. Where is the variety and personality in the levels.

The gameplay mechanics and control in Mario Sunshine and Mario 64 are almost the same, but I prefer the control and mechanics of Mario 64. I want to play as a Mario that can punch, kick, and long jump. I don't want to play as a Mario that uses an irritatingly gimmicky water pack, doesn't punch or kick the enemies, and has a practically useless spin jump. I guess this is just my opinion and personal preference. I am not trying to push it on anybody. I am just trying to say that I think the water pack was too gimmicky and it forced the game to be irritating and not fun.

The fun factor...well, personally I have a problem with most of the "treasure hunting" games. Mario 64 was an early 3-D platformer. Nintendo experimented and used the "treasure hunt" as the main focus of the gameplay. I didn't mind too much when I played Mario 64. I still didn't like it though. I would rather be just platform hopping through levels. SO, I forced myself to go through Mario 64. NOW, when you present me with the exact same shit years later, you call the stars "shines", and you give me an annoying water pack that makes the whole game play irritating....I would most definitely have to say that I don't find Mario Sunshine as fun as Mario 64.

Why do most 3-D platformers have to revolve around this "treasure hunt" style of gameplay? At first I thought it might be technical limitations of the 3-D platform genre. God knows that the actual PLATFORMING in some 3-D platformers wasn't refined when the 3-D platformers were first starting. Look at Bubsy 3-D for an example of this. I sure hope to god that nobody had to play this game. Now that we have most of the kinks worked out of the 3-D platforming genre why do most games still rely on the treasure hunt as its focus? The focus should go back to actual PLATFORMING again. Unfortunately, games that can truly be called PLATFORMERS are few and far between now days. Most 3-D PLATFORMERS don't involve enough platforms to jump on for my tastes :)

Therefore, I believe that Mario Sunshine is inferior to Mario 64 in every way.

2. Did Sonic Adventure 1 AND Sonic Adventure 2 contribute to the 3-D platform genre? My answer is most definitely YES! WHY? Sega was able to successfully bring Sonic into the 3-D realm while still containing some of the aspects that made the Sonic games so good. Note that I said SOME. We all know that SPEED is what makes the Sonic games good. Sega was able to keep the speed intact in the Sonic Adventure games for the most part. I say for the most part because EVERYBODY and their fucking dog says that they hate the Knuckles levels. What are the Knuckles levels? They are "treasure hunts"...the exact same BULLSHIT that Nintendo has turned the Mario series into. The Mario series was never about collecting all the items in a level to beat the game. The Mario games were about getting from one end of a level to the next while facing platforming challenges. At least Sega had the balls to keep the Sonic levels as they should be. How would you like Sonic Adventure if the Sonic levels had you walking around all slow looking for "shines." SO YES, I think the Sonic Adventure series greatly contributed toward the platforming genre because it is a platform game that shows that all 3-D platformers do not have to be "treasure hunts." I also think both games are better platformers than Mario Sunshine. I think Sega did a much better job of bringing Sonic into the 3-D realm than Nintendo did with Mario. IMHO of course :D SO, if this is MY OPINION, then how does it make me lose credibility?

3. And since when the fuck does a new gaming platform have to be out in order for a game to redefine a genre?! All it takes to redefine a genre is a little creativity, imagination, and effort to make a good game. The Virtua Fighter series is constantly redefining what the 3-D fighting genre should be, and I can tell you that it didn't need the power of the "almighty" Playstation 2 or any other console in order to do so. Maybe even a MAJOR franchise doing something a little DIFFERENT will redefine a genre. Sure, we are stuck in this 3-D shit hole right now. Who started it though? It was Mario who really got this ball rolling. Why doesn't Nintendo get some fucking balls and bend the rules that it created? They made the rules...why not break them? Can you imagine if Mario took the Klonoa 2 route? That might just be enough to help start redefining the genre as we know it. If Klonoa doesn't have enough house hold recognition to start a 2.5-D platforming revolution, then Mario sure the hell does! Why can't there be a nice hand drawn 2-D Mario game on this generation of consoles? Why can't Mario redefine the genre again unless there is new hardware out? Hardware doesn't mean shit when it comes to making a good game. A good genre defining game is based on how talented and creative the people making it are.

4. AND YOU SAY "Hell, give me a deep, difficult, beautiful hand drawn 2D platformer over this shit any day." In answer to this I say AMEN!

In conclusion, I respect everyones opinions on these boards and I would greatly appreciate it if you wouldn't question the credibility of my opinions anymore.

"GV4L mentioned Xbox so PaCrappa thought that it was only on that system. PaCrappa being one of those who knows just enough to know "there are no good games on the Xbox" without the cumbersome disadvantage of actually knowing what games are in fact on the Xbox."

LOL, I didn't read that post before. That is so me! I'm just a grouchy closed minded asshole when it comes to the XBOX. But still, as many times as I've walked by it in malls, seen people playing it at the Game Crazy kiosk and had people bring their systems to my house to espouse the virtues of the giant black box, I have still only ever seen three Sega games that interest me. If JSRF is as bad as I fear, I'm down to two.

And to GV4L, I've got no rpoblem with your opinions or anyone else's. I just don't want to have to subscribe to them. If I say game "A" is "shit", that means I fucking hate it, not you. If you disagree then yes, I think you're wrong and I'm right but there's also the implied agreement to disagree that is commonplace amongst internet discussion and that should get everyone over the hump with feelings intact. Keep your chin up soldier!

Here's a couple of opinions: Super Magnetic Neo is the most fun I've ver had with a 3D platformer and it doesn't suck. Sonic Adventure started off not sucking but didn't take long to suck thoroughly. It was during my play through this game (completed with every character) that I decided that all of these friggin' things were the same and they all sucked in at least one glaring way. Usually the pisspoor camera is the first thing that jumps out in all of 'em.

"With Mario Sunshine we get tropical paradise city, tropical paradise beach, tropical paradise, and tropical paradise amusement park and so on. Where is the variety and personality in the levels."

Well gee.... it is called Mario Sunshine for crimini's sake ;)


Pa

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"I had hoped to find a board where people are open to others opinions on games or to have an exchange other than what you'd expect 2 kids to have on a playground over an EGM review. If I haven't yet found that board, or if no one here sees this as that kind of board, let me know."

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"It's this and that SonicA2 crack that seem out of place on an honest forum. I think a true gamer would see the attempt at what was tried with Blinx and at least embrace the concept. But I guess it's easier to bash than to appreciate."

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These two points are contradictory. You talk about how you want a forum where people are "open to others opinions on games", and then you say how a "true gamer" would "appreciate" Blinx and make a snide comment about the "honesty" of this board. I guess you want your rules to apply to everyone but yourself.

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Originally posted by Ammadeau
You're kidding, right? If I was teaching a class I'd used Blinx as the perfect example of how not to make a platformer. I've played up to the ancient Egyptian area and with each new level there's at least one new stupid design decision or horribly thought out puzzle. The fact that half the much touted time controls are useless seems almost secondary.

Only in Bizarro world would Blinx be a good game... hmm, maybe that's why the cat 'language' is just Japanese played backwards... It is a game from Bizarro world!

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That was perfect. :lol:

*high-fives Ammadeau*

New guy: Read Pacrappa's post right above mine until it sinks in, cuz he's dead on about opinions and whatnot. Thx!

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Originally posted by PaCrappa


"With Mario Sunshine we get tropical paradise city, tropical paradise beach, tropical paradise, and tropical paradise amusement park and so on. Where is the variety and personality in the levels."

Well gee.... it is called Mario Sunshine for crimini's sake ;)


Pa

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:lol: True. I guess that is why it IS called Mario SUNSHINE. I get a little carried away sometimes. Sorry about that. 3-D platformers are a real sore subject for me. I just miss a real Mario game I guess...

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Originally posted by GunValkyrie4Life
"Only in Bizarro world would Blinx be a good game... hmm, maybe that's why the cat 'language' is just Japanese played backwards... It is a game from Bizarro world!"

It's this and that SonicA2 crack that seem out of place on an honest forum. I think a true gamer would see the attempt at what was tried with Blinx and at least embrace the concept. But I guess it's easier to bash than to appreciate.

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Have you actually played Blinx? Sure, it was a great concept and could have been a great game, but the result is crap from start to finish. And I didn't just play the demo either. I bought the game and slugged my way through 20+ levels complete with poor graphics, poor controls, ridiculously poor camera, and a pile of tedious gameplay. I kept playing as long as I did because I hoped that it would somehow improve and live up to the promise it showed. But it never did.

Concepts are nice, but you can't play them.

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Originally posted by GunValkyrie4Life
Call me "From the Land of Easily Entertained" but the first time I witnessed slow-mo in Blinx, I thought, FINALLY someone has attempted more than finding "3 bananas to put in a ladies basket." More than finding this key, for that key hole... more than trying to win a contest to get a star.

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Only slow-mo in Blinx is completely useless. It's just pause, only it sucks. And Blinx does break down into the 'key in the keyhole' nonesense at times with the scripted rewind and record puzzles. You're just finding colored time controls instead of colored keys.

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Originally posted by Jeremy
I'll elaborate a bit. Blinx's concept of the time-based stuff was fantastic, IN THEORY. In execution, thanks in part to a clunky method of activation and minute usage of the time-based stuff ended up hurting the concept in execution.

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Nah, the usage had to be timed and the game pauses when you're chosing the control so that wasn't the problem. The problem with the time controls themselves, ignoring the rest of the game's faults for a moment, is they were mostly useless outside of scripted events. Sure, you can pause enemies, but they're so easy to beat normally it's sort of pointless. Especially when you're on a timer for these levels and the DAMN TIME CONTROLS HAVE NO EFFECT ON IT WHATSOEVER. Ugh. You're running low on time to finish the level, you just need to make it to the damn exit, so you think pause or slow would come in handy here... WRONG. YOU FAIL THE LEVEL ANYWAY.

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Originally posted by BenT
That was perfect. :lol:

*high-fives Ammadeau*

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The ironic thing is I bought the game (not at full price thankfully) after reading your review thinking 'how bad can it really be?' Obviously, I was an idiot.

Man, I can't help but say I'm a bit disappointed here. I was hoping to learn about some great 2D platformers that I'd never heard of...

For some reason I can enjoy an action or Zelda type game in 3D, but I really have no desire to play a 3D platformer. I never finished Sunshine and lost interest at about 75 shines. I'm not sure if it's because the game just wasn't compelling enough, or if it has something to do with my waning interest for anything other than a good 2D shooter however.

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originally posted by cigsthecat
I was hoping to learn about some great 2D platformers that I'd never heard of...

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So I don't seem like a hypocrite here's one that I hadn't heard of until a while ago and it's quite a neat little game:

Genji Tsuushin Agedama (PCE Hu)

Picked up on 05pro's recommendation and I wasn't disappointed. Someone list some good platformers for the PCE besides the PC Kids, Son Son II and the Shubibinman games.

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Originally posted by Melf
You beat me to it! I love Ristar. He's full of personality and the level design was great. The game was long and engaging as hell and the graphics rocked. The music was awesome too (Pray! Pray! Play! owns).

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Wani Wani world is an awesome genesis plattformer. You should check it out;)

In defense on MxPx original problems with the tropical aspect of Sunshine: I have yet to play the whole game, so maybe this is to come but if you've ever been to an actual island, the sun isn't shining every second with Calypso music playing at all times. The game (so far) could use a dank cave or even some extreme rainstorms which actually do happen. I realize (uh, now) that most people either hate Vexx, or claim to hate it because of a demo or glancing at the cover, but even Vexx had day/night cycles that even the music changed in each cycle. For a game of Mario's prowess, straight 9.5's in EGM, I would have expected this concept to be almost a given (NOTE: I LOVE SMS, just a thought).

On another note, I am generally easier on games that are a first effort, Blinx for instance, the attempt at least to TRY something new. Where as a Mario needs to be GREAT just to be good, because I know they have been around FOREVER and SHOULD put out nothing but the best. To expect a Vexx to be as great as a Mario in terms of mechanics and so forth is just not even reasonable consider how long "SM" (you know him) has been creating and redefining his own creations. It is very similar to TV shows in that they rarely hit their stride until the 3rd or 4th season, they learn from mistakes and grow from them. When I hear reviews, and right out of the gate they claim Vexx is no Mario.............. oh, really? Gee, and they had a few years to catch a 15 year+ juggernaught, you would think they could be as good right away. I respect effort every bit as much as execution.

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Originally posted by GunValkyrie4Life
"Only in Bizarro world would Blinx be a good game... hmm, maybe that's why the cat 'language' is just Japanese played backwards... It is a game from Bizarro world!"

It's this and that SonicA2 crack that seem out of place on an honest forum. I think a true gamer would see the attempt at what was tried with Blinx and at least embrace the concept. But I guess it's easier to bash than to appreciate.

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Just my 2 cents... This board is actually one of the better gaming boards I've ever been on. There's less actual straight up flaming, trolling and bashing that a great number of other boards. Everyone who's made negative comments about Blinx thus far has actually given the damn thing a try... and it just happens their viewpoints don't coincide favorably.

It's my opinion up there being bashed and I can despite the fact that it seems like no one can appreciate my viewpoint, it's really because I know I have an unpopular viewpoint :D

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Originally posted by Ammadeau
You're kidding, right? If I was teaching a class I'd used Blinx as the perfect example of how not to make a platformer. I've played up to the ancient Egyptian area and with each new level there's at least one new stupid design decision or horribly thought out puzzle. The fact that half the much touted time controls are useless seems almost secondary.

Only in Bizarro world would Blinx be a good game... hmm, maybe that's why the cat 'language' is just Japanese played backwards... It is a game from Bizarro world!

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Well to start this off... Blinx definitely fits the title of the thread. It does get NO/LITTLE respect. You can't get less respected than Blinx. :D

But in any case, my defense of Blinx is really, not that I'm touting it as an all time classic or a Mario 64 beater or anything. Rather that I don't think it deserves the beating nearly everyone gives it.

Yes, the concept is flawed... but at least it HAS a new gameplay concept and mechanic, as opposed to the seemingly endless series of uninspired 3D platformers that add nothing to the genre. You got to admit, during the first sitting of the game (before all the damned flaws and problems surface) the time thing was pretty damned cool.

I'm not even going to admit there aren't problems with it. But personally, I gained some enjoyment from Blinx. Some people speak like Blinx would liquify your organs at boot up or something :D

Vexx has some wicked crazy Platforming areas. I have played the game quite a bit and it has some very classic platforming. Nothing quite like going up a huge tower jumping from little platforms, climing poles, jumping from ice block to ice block, and such and such. It has a lot of areas that are very similar to the obstacle courses in Sunshine (only more vertical and they also usually have a bottomless pit at the bottom). Vexx is indeed a terriable character but I found the game to a very good 3D Platformer.

I am a big fan of more traditional 3D platformers (i.e. Mario 64). Vexx has a very similar set up to Mario 64.

I loved Super Mario Sunshine, I boggles my mind when I read people complaining about the camera and control, I NEVER had a problem with either.

I played through a world of Sly and it seemed pretty neat, but did not really pull me in to a large extent. I will pick it up someday though. I have never played R&C, but I think it looks like trash.

Blinx is a platformer, but its also a form of Puzzler. So it does not really play all that much like a Platformer usually does. You jump around and such, but more strategy and thinking is taking place.

I also loved Maximo, great game. But the new Maximo looks weird, it does not look all that much like the first. And seems to really be drawing away from the Ghosts N' Goblins connection. I am sure it will be fun, but I don't like the sound of them trying to restructure it to make it more user friendly and easier for a wider audiance (aka the people that suck at games).

I also can't wait for Mega Man Battle Network for the Game Cube (can't remember the actual name). From what I read its supposed to be really hard (according to EGM, so take that with a grain of salt, they complain a lot). I really like how its going to play like a Mega Man game with the Chips. But I wish it was a regualar Mega Man game, but I guess he is dead in the eyes of Capcom (man I am sick of X). And Mega Man X7 looks like trash, I really have no idea what they are trying to do with that game. Sounds like they are trying to cover all bases, and I don't see it working. And the new character looks wicked lame, and I never like Zero, stupid pony-tail.

And it really sucks that it sounds like Tork is getting canned, I can't tell you how mad that makes me. Stupid Microsoft.

"I have played the game quite a bit and it has some very classic platforming. Nothing quite like going up a huge tower jumping from little platforms, climing poles, jumping from ice block to ice block, and such and such."

Yep. Too bad you have to actually *gasp* play the game to see all this. You would think that by glancing at the cover art work you'd get all this and understand. I mean what happened to good old days when the character design made the game complete? *sarcasm-shields down*

Vexx is indeed an AWFUL character, I still hate him. And that was one of the reasons I never wanted to play the game. And then I played the Xbox Demo and was like, "Heyyyyyyyy this ain't too bad!" One of the worst characters of all time, but a fantastic game.

I think something most of you are missing is not that they cannot make a great 3-D platformer, but that platformers (by their definition) or not really cool anymore. What defines it again? -jumping from platform to platform? Ooh, that sounds like a cool game idea. I've always wanted to play a game where I jumped alot.

So, that's why I think most 3D platformer'ish games focus more on other elements...more successful 3D efforts like R & C, DMC, and Metroid Prime all have their share of "platforming" worked into the gameplay, but I doubt anyone would claim their defining feature was "jumping from platform to platform."

Random thought: Is Prince of Persia a platformer?

My favorite obscure platformer? Pandemonium. I've never played the PS version, but the Saturn port was fantastic. I can only imagine the PS orriginal is as good or better.

I liked Pandemonium 2. ;)

The original Pandemonium is amazing. The characters in it are actually creative, instead of the random animal ones we get now. The PSX version has spruced up graphics, but other than that, it's the same as the Saturn version. I prefer the Saturn's pad to the PSX's, so I'll give that version the nod. Pandemonium 2 revived the characters quite a bit, adding a sense of realism to them, which I dug.

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Originally posted by Clash_Master
I have never played R&C, but I think it looks like trash.

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Well, Rent it, and see if you like it. Whats SO trashy about it? Its definately NOT worse looking than Mario Sunshine.

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Originally posted by Despair
Its definately NOT worse looking than Mario Sunshine.

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I disagree.

Well, you can :p Doesnt make you right, though ;)

I could take it home and play it for free any day of the week, I just have not yet. (i work at a video store). I just don't like the looks of a lot of the areas and the ideas. Plus I am not that interested in the fact thats Guns seem to play a major part in it.

And it does look worse than Mario Sunshine, a LOT worse.

Hmm, I guess we all have different perception. To me Sunshine locations look unbearably bad and bland, and I prefer R&G alien worlds(each of which had its unique personality, unlike Sunshine predominately Island theme). Same goes for character and monster designs.

As for R&C over-relience on weapons, you are not forced to use all of them and you definately can play whole game with just a Wrench as a weapon. But we found weapons and gadgets it has to be great fun to use.

Well considering what games have been coming out recently, I think Islands are a lot more creative than Alien worlds, but thats just me. Plus I love Mario games, and the design.

I will try it some day, and form a valid opinion then.

I really liked Klonoa 2. Yeah it was short and easy, but I had a great time playing it and that little dog guy was hilarious. Anyways, Empire of Dreams is okay for GBA, but it doesn't have the same feel as Lunatea's Veil. I've never played Door to Phantomile.

SC

Klonoa 2 was great, I would really like to see what they could do with a sequal. They could really make that game look amazing now. Not that K2 looked bad, but it already looks a little dated. They could also make it a little harder, it certainly has the potential for some crazy hard set ups.

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Originally posted by FuryFox
I think something most of you are missing is not that they cannot make a great 3-D platformer, but that platformers (by their definition) or not really cool anymore. What defines it again? -jumping from platform to platform? Ooh, that sounds like a cool game idea. I've always wanted to play a game where I jumped alot.

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I am not just saying this to contradict you and start an argument or anything. However, the only reason I ever play platformers is for the platfrom jumping. That is what I like the most about the platform genre. I love being challenged jumping from platform to platform...especially the ones that disappear, fall, spin around, move from side to side, have spikes coming up and down, or anything else that platforms should do. Unfortunately, this basic platforming element has been taken out of most modern platformers and it is very disappointing to me. I like platformers with a challenge, where the main goal is to get from one end of a level to the next without dying or falling in a bottomless pit. Modern day 3-D platformers seem to be all about solving some puzzle to find some worthless object. They should actually be called "3-D puzzler collectors" or something...

This is the main reason that it seems like I can't get into 75% of 3-D platformers. I play platformers to jump. Sure it is simplistic and it doesn't seem cool, but I think it is the coolest part of a platforming game. I play platformers to jump for the same exact reason I play shoot-em-up's to shoot, dodge bullets, and get high scores. 3-D platformers without platforming is like taking the shooting and dodging out of shmups...

MXPX, if you have never played Skull Monkeys then you need to! Its for the PSOne and is one of the most pure platformers I have ever played. Its all about tricky jumps and the like, plus its all done with clay and has fantastic Cut Scenes (also clay). You should really look for it in case you have never played it.

I have never played Skull Monkeys....Thanks for the recommendation! I will check it out as soon as possible then. I have been craving a pure platforming game for a long time...

Which reminds me...I am probably one of the only people in the gaming world to COMPLETELY MISS OUT on the whole PSone generation of games. I used to be a huge Nintendo and Sega fanboy. I believed the playstation was evil and I would die an instantaneous death if I ever so much as touched one :lol: Therefore I have never played through even ONE PlaystationOne game. Now that I have a PS2 I guess I can catch up a little. Hell I probably should have started a whole new thread to ask this...SORRY...but any recommendations for PSone games would be greatly appreciated. My favorite genres are "old school" platformers (preferably 2-D), RPGs, and shmups. So, can anybody recommend some good games in this genre on the PSone? Note: I played Final Fantasy VII on the PC and I hated it...

Skullmonkeys gets a ringing endorsement from me. The game is fun, and the claymation is awesome. It's not the easiest game to find though, so an ebay search is in order.

I have seen it at Game Stops all over the place around here, and they only charge $12.99 for it. I would try ordering one from Game Stop.

OK thanks. I will try ordering one from Gamestop then...