A Legacy Company

ok so, i made this thread so that Lhadatt and i wouldn't make the online thread go off topic.

anyways, let's get started with a little part from an interview with Steve Kent...

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Do you think Nintendo is "too small" a contender when it's up against huge companies like Microsoft and Sony?
Steve: No. Nintendo is a legacy company. It can most certainly compete and win.

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he has very good reason for saying that if you ask me. you'd have to be crazy to think that Nintendo hasn't done a complete 180 for the most part.

-they have incredible 3rd party support. it might not be much, but they got all the franchises that count.

-GBA Player Bundled with GameCube

-New Development Studio

-GameBoy Advance SP

-Online games well on their way

they're starting to go all out finally, and they're starting to show that they can indeed, compete on all levels with Sony and Microsoft.

im actually looking forward to next generation now (something i wasn't able to say before), just because i know this new Nintendo, is gonna be very ruthless. im pretty damn sure they plan to take no prisoners.

i bumped into Steve Kent the other day at a net cafe, and we talked about Nintendo and what not. and he still thinks they have what it takes.

Iwata is taking the company into a great direction if you ask me.

anyways, what are everyones thoughts on "The Legacy Company"? do they have what it takes?

Nintendo can subside on their name alone, that's for sure. However I don't see too huge a change in NOA's practices to say that they'll be anything more than mainstay, and doubt that they can compete with Sony or MS at this stage. If you haven't heard me say this three hundred times before then I'm probably on your ignore list: NOA takes some of the markets stongest genre's and ignores them in leu of releasing more kid friendly titles. Unless it's a proven hit it'll likely never see these shores if it generates a M rating. Also their reluctance on the RPG market is infuriating. Can you name the last great first party (or second for that matter) RPG that was released in the U.S. on a Nintendo console that wasn't either Zelda or rleased due to an edict handed down from Japan?

I've had more fun with Nintendo's GC titles than Vice City, so I could care less the ratings of the big N's games.

Zelda isn't an RPG, but we don't have to get into that.

and um...Paper Mario. as far as competeing goes, im reffering to nextgen of course.

I think you're right -- I think Nintendo's next steps are going to be pretty interesting.

They have a solid 2nd place in the world market right now, despite what MS says. Expect that to spike when they start revealing their online plans. Like we discussed in the other thread, Mario Kart will most likely be online via Gamespy. With what we know about this system, it seems plausible that we could also see Starfox, Gamecube Wars (if it is indeed in development) and alot of other titles go online. Gaming-Age forumites are already throwing around the concept of FFCC online, which probbaly won't happen, but it's a cool idea.

As for the GBA, there are a few things Nintendo needs to do:
- Ready a new, more powerful system than the PSP. Getting an exclusive license on Sega's Dreamcast-on-a-chip technology would be an excellent move, unless Sony's system is that much more powerful... I doubt this is the case though.
- Find a way to connect players besides the old method of knowing people with GBAs. BTW, reading the following spoilered text constitutes agreeing to a NDA with me, so I can sue your arse if you copy my idea. :p One idea I had was use a form of wireless networking to create a locator cart. If a player gets near other players with the cart, it starts making noise or something. It would have to be ultra-cheap to get enough market penetration to prove useful, but it's not like older wireless technology is that expensive now.
- Encourage new content. Iridion II, the new MG, Wario Ware, Sonic Advance, etc. are a good start. Make a new Mario 2D game. Get Capcom to do a SF game that's exclusive to the platform. Get Playmore to port more fighters. Develop more exclusive franchises and actually market them -- the way the GB market is now, most games don't get big production runs. For exclusives, expand the runs and market the hell out of the titles.

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Originally posted by ShineAqua
Nintendo can subside on their name alone, that's for sure. However I don't see too huge a change in NOA's practices to say that they'll be anything more than mainstay, and doubt that they can compete with Sony or MS at this stage.

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Decent points, but we're talking New Nintendo. Iwata's only been in power for a year. Give them some time.

As for RPGs: yeah, they're third party, but we've got a Tales game and Skies of Arcadia, with more on the way. Can't name any more from memory, someone else do it. :)

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Originally posted by Lhadatt
As for RPGs: yeah, they're third party, but we've got a Tales game and Skies of Arcadia, with more on the way. Can't name any more from memory, someone else do it. :)

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actually, you named them all except Evolution Worlds.

oh, and doesn't the GBA support Blue Tooth? having that and making use of it would be a great thing for the system.

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Originally posted by Lucas Barton
actually, you named them all except Evolution Worlds.

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Well.. ok, so they have some work to do on that front. :)

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oh, and doesn't the GBA support Blue Tooth? having that and making use of it would be a great thing for the system.

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Yes, there is a bluetooth module for it. I'm sure Nintendo has something in R&D (or maybe quite a few somethings), but other companies have already implimented it. No one's made a player locator though. Bluetooth poses a problem with this, since it has limited range. Perhaps it could work with a cellphone network? But that would up the cost a bit...

One other thing Nintendo's done that shouldn't be forgotten: They won over EA. This is pretty big, since EA's been notoriously picky on development platforms (reference their outright dismissal of the Dreamcast).

Triton Labs (the Afterburner people) are making a bluetooth link attachment for GBA. It's supposed to plug into the link port and pretty much replace the link cable, allowing wireless play between up to four GBAs within a 100 foot radius, and work through walls. It's gonna cost $30-40 though (and that's per unit, with each GBA requiring one). :/

The GBA support Blue Tooth? Highly doubtful considering that there's no port for it (or sensor rather.)
EDIT: I stand corrected. Though it is so Nintendo like to force you to buy a seperate attachment to perform a funtion that should have been included. :mad:

You also make some good points Lhadatt, however I'm concerned with what's going on in-house because that's always going to effect third parties in some form or annother. And thus far NOA isn't interested in first party RPG's which have become a power house genre in the U.S. My argument is simple, how can one trust that Nintendo is turning over a new leaf if they still hold to older (and outdated in my opinion) practices? Though it is a little early to say for sure, I haven't seen much that would instill in me a confidence in their "new direction."

Also my gripe wasn't that they're aren't enough M rated games on the unit as much as it is with NOA's abandonment of all the gamers from previous generations. It cost's more to make a customer than it does to keep one, and Nintendo isn't going to keep much of the aging gamers population with games like Mario Sunshine. Those gamers would buy a PS2 so they can get their dose of more serious plot intensive games, and still have a plethora of mindless "kiddy" games to satisfy thier inner child.

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Originally posted by Lhadatt
One other thing Nintendo's done that shouldn't be forgotten: They won over EA. This is pretty big, since EA's been notoriously picky on development platforms (reference their outright dismissal of the Dreamcast).

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not to mention that they're all gonna have GBA connectivity. i don't care for any of the games that EA is releasing. although if i was into The Sims, i'd be really excited about the new GameCube/GBA exclusive game. the GBA connectivity that they're putting in there can be really awesome if it catches on.

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Originally posted by ShineAqua

EDIT: I stand corrected. Though it is so Nintendo like to force you to buy a seperate attachment to perform a funtion that should have been included. :mad:

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um...he said Triton Labs, not Nintendo.

oh, and what's up with you thinking that NoA controls everything? we're not even talking about NoA here to top it off.

Lhadatt: a GCN port of Advance Wars Would be called GameCube Wars, in keeping with the tradition of naming it after the platform it apears on.

you're doing a great job at annoying me.

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Originally posted by Lucas Barton
oh, and what's up with you thinking that NoA controls everything?

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It's not that I think NoA controls everything, so much as most of everything that will make it this side of the Paciffic. Barring any edicts from mount NOJ anyhow.

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Originally posted by Lucas Barton
you're annoying me.

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:confused: explain.

You say they got all the franchises that count, but they keep getting short-ended. MGSTS is just a remake. It could end up a very awesome remake, but it's still a game most people have played allready. Snake Eater will be exclusive for PS2 next year. As for RE, while RE4 is looking good, RE online looks more appealing because of the innovations they're adding to it. GTA ports are too little too late. Final Fantasy isn't a full blown cinematic angsty teens save the world rpg blockbuster that all the PS Final Fantasy games are, it's just an action rpg with the FF name stuck to it. If the big N wants these franchises to matter, they should make them all exclusive.

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Originally posted by Lucas Barton
um...he said Triton Labs, not Nintendo.

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But it does support the tech seeing as the chip is in the GBA unit.
It's just not out of the box compatible.

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Originally posted by ShineAqua
:confused: explain.

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dude, with every single post you've made in this thread, you've made it pretty damn clear that you're missing the point of this thread,

you're letting Nintendo of America's history influence your opinion. not only are we not talking about NoA, but we're talking about a completely different Nintendo here. we're not talking about the past here.

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Originally posted by ShineAqua
You also make some good points Lhadatt, however I'm concerned with what's going on in-house because that's always going to effect third parties in some form or annother. And thus far NOA isn't interested in first party RPG's which have become a power house genre in the U.S.

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Yeah, NoA's been stupid in the past about some things, but we're getting Fire Emblem and the GBA Earthbound. Wait for a bit, I think they'll localize more as time goes on.

As for RPGs being a "powerhouse", I think that's more your opinion than market fact. RPGs don't typically sell as much as, say, action/adventure, racing or other genres.

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Also my gripe wasn't that they're aren't enough M rated games on the unit as much as it is with NOA's abandonment of all the gamers from previous generations. It cost's more to make a customer than it does to keep one, and Nintendo isn't going to keep much of the aging gamers population with games like Mario Sunshine. Those gamers would buy a PS2 so they can get their dose of more serious plot intensive games, and still have a plethora of "kiddy" games to satisfy thier inner child.

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Nitnendo has plenty of older-gamer content on the way. Geist, Pilotwings, the new Star Wars game, Metroid Prime 2, all the EA stuff, RE4... it doesn't really have much of a "kiddie" look to it. I think you're letting the company's history influence your opinion of its current state -- which isn't to say that its background shouldn't be discounted, but the company is changing with the change of leadership. The thing you're ignoring is development time. You're not going to see these changes over night -- you are starting to see them now because they are ready to show them off. I think we'll see more changes in the near future (example: the online plans).

I'm really not sure you're getting the point of this thread, Shine. This is about the changes Nintendo is making to its traditional way of doing business. They have a new president. They are actually trying to compete, and they are doing a nice job of it. Yeah, they slacked off for an entire console generation, but I think that had more to do with the morale of one man (The Old Man, Yamauchi) than the company itself. Please try to keep an open mind about this stuff.

EDIT: Shine's right, it should be GC Wars in my first post here, not Advance Wars. :D

You're talking about Nintendo, and Nintendo of America is, last I heard, a Nintendo company. So what if NoJ is taking things in a "new direction", how much has that effected what NoA is doing right now? And talk of the future is just that, talk. All I have to base an opinion of Nintendo on is the past, which I have every right to do. Now if NoJ takes a more affirmative role in the practices of NoA, and taking them along in this "new direction," then the answer to the question you posted at the start of this thread is a resounding yes. But as it stands right now, nothing substantial has materialized, so right now big N can't compete with Sony.

Edit: Lhadatt, RPG's (and not only RPG's, they're just on convenient example) are generally geared towards adults, and though we see more games geared for adults apearing on the Cube (yes I'm a picky asshole) it's not enough. Don't get me wrong I love games like Pikmin, Animal Crossing and the like but most people like choice. The GCN doesn't offer much of that that the PS2 doesn't have x10. But you're right that I need to give it more time. The future looks good but plans get cancelled. So all I have for refference is a N64 with three games on the shelf next to it (though I now have a GC with more games right next to that.)

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Originally posted by Green
You say they got all the franchises that count, but they keep getting short-ended. MGSTS is just a remake. It could end up a very awesome remake, but it's still a game most people have played allready.

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But with new gameplay, movies and voice acting! And the director of VERSUS! :p Besides, I've maintained since the GC MGS rumors popped up that we would see another MGS game on the Cube. Konami was reported by some site to let slip that they were working on a Snake side-quest. I'm not 100% sure about this anymore since nothing was said at E3, but I still think it should be kept in mind.

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As for RE, while RE4 is looking good, RE online looks more appealing because of the innovations they're adding to it.

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Unless Sony gave Capcom a big bag o' money for exclusivity, I expect them to port it.

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GTA ports are too little too late.

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It will still sell. Especially if the graphics are updated.

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Final Fantasy isn't a full blown cinematic angsty teens save the world rpg blockbuster that all the PS Final Fantasy games are, it's just an action rpg with the FF name stuck to it.

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You speak as if this is a bad thing.

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If the big N wants these franchises to matter, they should make them all exclusive.

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To the contrary: we're seeing lots of innovation here. We don't know what RE4 will be like gameplay-wise, it may have elements from RE Online. Collaboration with Konami means more projects to hit the GC down the line. Square's approach to the Cube seems to indicate that it wants some freedom to innovate -- they want to try new things, and Nintendo is supporting them (perhaps they feel stifled on the PS2? I wouldn't blame Sony for telling them they can't do certain things due to the failure of Bouncer and their other non-RPG games...).

Nintendo is setting the stage for a nice come back. They aren't going to have all the pieces in place yet.

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Originally posted by ShineAqua
But as it stands right now, nothing substantial has materialized, so right now big N can't compete with Sony.

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It's all been announced within the past 3-6 months. Of course you won't see it yet -- none of this stuff is out! No one knows how it will do on the market.

This is a speculative thread based upon analysis of Nintendo's repositioning of its strategy, not an analysis of its history. Yes, Nintendo would have trouble competing if they just kept the status quo. However, they are actively changing the way they do business. The question at hand is, "Are these changes enough to allow Nintendo to compete with Sony? If not, what should be done?"

The company's history is relevant in that they are staying true to it while trying to innovate -- can it be done? Or are they doomed to failure at the hands of the market leader and the monkey who won't quit throwing around large chunks of money? This is not solely about the company's history, nor is it about what you can directly see happening right now -- it is about the future of the company and gaming as a whole.

That's very exciting if you're right, but (1) Capcom bailed with that all exclusive for the GC special 5 thing, (2) I don't see the GC FF selling as half as much as the PS FF games, (3) even if RE online is ported will it matter all that much? Just like the GTA ports, they'll sell but Sony will have gotten a much bigger peice of that action. One thing I did forget was that MGS4 will be GC exclusive. Then again, MGS online could end up stealing it's thunder if it's a Sony exclusive.
All in all what you said about setting up the peices is very interesting. Hell, I'm all for exclusive content for the GC simply because I'm tired of blurry and jagged PS2 games.

Green:

1) Economics. :\ Don't forget that Capcom is still hurting right now. I can see this turning around if the innovation seen in the C5 continues, but who knows...
2) Heh. Of course it won't! The GC userbase can't support those numbers. I imagine it will do numbers a bit better than FF Tactics.
3) Will RE Online matter much at all on the PS2? Probably not.

Sony will always sell larger numbers this generation (at least) because Nintendo's still second place -- it's not even close competition since Sony is so far ahead. That doesn't mean Nintendo can't make a profit and keep its third parties happy.

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Hell, I'm all for exclusive content for the GC simply because I'm tired of blurry and jagged PS2 games.

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:lol: Aren't we all?

Random note: Didn't Capcom announce an Auto Modelista GC? Was this at E3?

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they have incredible 3rd party support. it might not be much, but they got all the franchises that count.

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Their 3rd party support is pretty good, but the XB and PS2 have more 3rd party support, don't they?

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Online games well on their way

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Is it as good as Microsofts?

And what are the current sales figures for this generation? Isn't the XB outselling the GCN? I don't keep track of the news these days.=\

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Originally posted by xS
Their 3rd party support is pretty good, but the XB and PS2 have more 3rd party support, don't they?

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you must have not read that "it might not be much, but they got all the franchises that count." part. even though you quoted me on it.

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Originally posted by xS
Is it as good as Microsofts?

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There hasn't been a single console game, save PSO, that makes me care about online gaming. True Fantasy Online might change that.

Nintendo may be going in a new direction, but it's too little, too late. Look at the Sega-console thread and read how times someone mentions Sega 'backstabbing' its fans. Same thing here, people think Nintendo's too 'kiddy' for too long, and no matter what they do that changes that image, the kiddy-image will stay with the fans.

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Originally posted by Lucas Barton
-they have incredible 3rd party support. it might not be much, but they got all the franchises that count.

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Excellent. I'll have to go pick up...

Art of Fighting
Castlevania
Contra
Darius
Darkstalkers
Daytona
Devil May Cry
Dino Crisis
Fatal Fury
Final Fantasy Tactics
Final Fight
Ghouls 'n' Ghosts
Golden Axe
Gradius
Grandia
House of the Dead
King of Fighters
Klonoa
Lunar
Metal Slug
Onimusha
Phantasy Star
R-Type
Salamander
Samurai Shodown
Sega Rally
Sengoku
Shining
Shinobi
Silent Hill
Splatterhouse
Street Fighter
Streets of Rage
Suikoden
ThunderForce
Vandal Hearts
Virtua Cop
Virtua Fighter

... for the GameCube this weekend. :rolleyes:

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Originally posted by Yoshi
Castlevania
Contra
Devil May Cry
Dino Crisis
Gradius
House of the Dead
Klonoa
Onimusha
Phantasy Star
Sega Rally
Shinobi
Silent Hill
Suikoden
Virtua Cop
Virtua Fighter

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Those are the only games in that list that are available for any of the new (domestic) systems right now. I know Metal Slug and KoF are coming, but they don't count - you're talking about games you could just run out and get today, right?

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Originally posted by Hero
There hasn't been a single console game, save PSO, that makes me care about online gaming. True Fantasy Online might change that.

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Agree. Console multiplayer games have always been about the social aspect rather than multiplayer for the sake of multiplayer. Mario Kart and Goldeneye and Halo and Frequency are fun to play with others when the others are right there with you. Internet gaming gives you a larger pool of players to choose from but lacks the interaction of physical contact. Xbox Live solves the communication problem but only serves as stand in for a true multiplayer experience. Interent play on consoles still has a long way to go and I think Nintendo is doing the wise thing by letting the market work itself out before jumping in head first.

IMHO, of course.

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Same thing here, people think Nintendo's too 'kiddy' for too long, and no matter what they do that changes that image, the kiddy-image will stay with the fans.

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Intelligent people don't see anything 'kiddy' about Nintendo. It's the children that wish they were adults or adults that still act like children that consider Nintendo 'kiddy'. And as far as I'm concerned both those groups can GFT.

And since when did DMC become a franchise that counts? :rolleyes:

#6

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Originally posted by Yoshi
Excellent. I'll have to go pick up...

Castlevania - 3 gba games
Contra - 1 gba game
Darius - 1 gba game
Final Fantasy Tactics - 1 gba game
Final Fight - 1 gba game
Ghouls 'n' Ghosts - 1 gba game
Golden Axe - 1 gba game
Gradius - 1 gba game
King of Fighters - 1 gba game
Klonoa - 1 gba game
Lunar - 1 gba game
Metal Slug - 1 gba game (in dev)
Phantasy Star - 3 gba games on one cart/1 gc game
R-Type - 1 gba game
Shining Soul I/II - 2 gba games
Shinobi - 1 gba game
Street Fighter - 1 gba game/1 gc game
Suikoden - 1 gba game (Suikoden: Card Stories)
Virtua Fighter - Quest rumored for gc

... and a Gameboy Player for the GameCube this weekend. :)

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Having series show up on the GBA hardly counts as the GC having them. Of course the GBA is going to have every series. It has no competition.

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Originally posted by Yoshi
Castlevania
Contra
Darius
Darkstalkers
Daytona
Devil May Cry
Dino Crisis
Fatal Fury
Final Fantasy Tactics
Final Fight
Ghouls 'n' Ghosts
Golden Axe
Gradius
Grandia
House of the Dead
King of Fighters
Klonoa
Lunar
Metal Slug
Onimusha
Phantasy Star
R-Type
Salamander
Samurai Shodown
Sega Rally
Sengoku
Shining
Shinobi
Silent Hill
Splatterhouse
Street Fighter
Streets of Rage
Suikoden
ThunderForce
Vandal Hearts
Virtua Cop
Virtua Fighter

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You rattled off a great deal of franchises there that do not, in fact, matter. With the exception of the ones I bolded, they are either not available on any home console this generation as yet, or do not in actuality have any sales counter stroke, regardless of how much you may personally like them. Good job, you managed to point out a whopping four relevant franchises the Cube is missing. (And that's because I'm giving Castlevania the benefit of the doubt; its sales potential with current mainstream console players is currently unknown. We may find out in November that you actually had but three.)

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Originally posted by LordPerrin
You rattled off a great deal of franchises there that do not, in fact, matter. With the exception of the ones I bolded, they are either not available on any home console this generation as yet, or do not in actuality have any sales counter stroke, regardless of how much you may personally like them. Good job, you managed to point out a whopping four relevant franchises the Cube is missing. (And that's because I'm giving Castlevania the benefit of the doubt; its sales potential with current mainstream console players is currently unknown. We may find out in November that you actually had but three.)

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If the PlayStation 2 had only franchises that "in actuality have any sales counter stroke," I'd be better off, especially if you throw Castlevania out of that list. I could have saved a lot of money by not buying 2 PS2s.

I think Nintendo is too small to compete. Right now, Microsoft is too concerned about making quarterly numbers to really even attempt to compete with the Xbox. If the big boys actually begin a price war, Nintendo will find it difficult to compete.

Nintendo has always had my gaming dollar. Games like Made in Wario, Cubivore, and Animal Crossing are the reason for this.

I love the fact that they try to innovate. Sony, the market leader, is content to release sequel after sequel, and while I understand how these games might appeal to other gamers, they are not for me. Nintendo takes their popular franchises, and changes them. Look at Mario Kart: Double Dash. They are willing to completely change the game. Whether this succeeds or fails, they at least have the balls to try these things, even though they are not the market leader. Look at Sony's GT series. How do they innovate? By making the game's graphics more realistic. For me, it is all about fun. Nintendo makes the most fun games on the market.

Also, in regards to next round, I think Sony's going to be real surprised. I'll go so far as to say they will keep their number one position, but I can guarantee that they won't have the same lopsided victory that they had this round. They've already lost console exclusivity of the GTA series, hence the "debuts exclusively on PS2" line. And don't try to tell me they only mean the PC version, because GTA3 and VC both came onto PC and Sony still called them "exclusive".

Erm... Sony has been a much more innovative company over the last 5-6 years.

Sure, alot of their stuff never makes it to the states... and there's no way that their quality can touch Nintendos but they have alot of quirky titles under their belt.

Ore No Ryuori
Vib Ribbon
Parrapa
Moji Ribbon
Ape Escape
ICO
Jumping Flash
Devil Dice
etc,etc.

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Originally posted by Spike
Nintendo has always had my gaming dollar. Games like Made in Wario, Cubivore, and Animal Crossing are the reason for this.

I love the fact that they try to innovate. Sony, the market leader, is content to release sequel after sequel, and while I understand how these games might appeal to other gamers, they are not for me.

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complain about sony if you like, but don't say that they don't innovate. sony's internal teams developed ico, ape escape and parappa, among other very original games. (edit: as xS just pointed out)

i love when nintendo gets creative (wario ware is probably my favorite nintendo game released in the last year or so), but you have to admit that they've taken a step back in this department.

It's unlikely that Nintendo will win the next console war, unless they change their whole strategy. They should reduce their liscensing fees if they haven't already, and give us a release shcedule that doesn't have us waiting 4 months for a decent title.

I really don't think that they've recovered from the beating the Genesis gave them.:)

Looking back in retrospective, I doubt that they would even win the console wars in the domestic market if FF7 was an N64 game. They lacked the business acumen to market the game.... they had the rights to all of Squares stuff in the previous generation and none of it got the push that it deserved.

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Originally posted by xS
Erm... Sony has been a much more innovative company over the last 5-6 years.

Sure, alot of their stuff never makes it to the states... and there's no way that their quality can touch Nintendos but they have alot of quirky titles under their belt.

Ore No Ryuori
Vib Ribbon
Parrapa
Moji Ribbon
Ape Escape
ICO
Jumping Flash
Devil Dice
etc,etc.

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Sony this gen, though they have a commanding lead, refuses to innovate the way they did last gen. Aside from ICO, the games you listed are from the PSX era. But regardless, when you dominate the market the way the PS2 currently is, there should be alot of innovation coming from the company. I see none of this from Sony. Third-parties don't count because their wares could go anywhere.

Nintendo, while having a fraction of the market that Sony has, is willing to take their franchises and try different things. Mario Kart: Double Dash reinvents the Kart genre. Other developers continuously copied Mario Kart and couldn't offer anything new to the genre, but it comes back to Nintendo to reinvent it. It'll be funny to see just how soon the compeitors, not Sony or Microsoft per se, but just any other developers incorporate these concepts into their own Kart games.

Well, the great thing about doing shitty in a competitive market, is that there is no place to go but up.

Increase for a bit, peak in summer, downhill again.

ICO and Moji Ribbon are part of this generation, FYI. And then there's a new game from the ICO team.

It's nice to see that they are trying to do something new in the Kart genre, but much of their lineup hasn't changed much from the 64 bit generation.

And besides, Sony doesn't rely on it's internal development teams all that much. 3rd parties like Sega and Konami do the job for them.;)

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Originally posted by Spike
Mario Kart: Double Dash reinvents the Kart genre. Other developers continuously copied Mario Kart and couldn't offer anything new to the genre, but it comes back to Nintendo to reinvent it. It'll be funny to see just how soon the compeitors, not Sony or Microsoft per se, but just any other developers incorporate these concepts into their own Kart games.

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Putting 2 people on a Kart is re-inventing the Genre?

What's next?

Nintendo re-invents the golf genre by putting ball washers in it?

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Originally posted by epmode
complain about sony if you like, but don't say that they don't innovate. sony's internal teams developed ico, ape escape and parappa, among other very original games. (edit: as xS just pointed out)

i love when nintendo gets creative (wario ware is probably my favorite nintendo game released in the last year or so), but you have to admit that they've taken a step back in this department.

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They've taken a step back because they don't have the market power. Why should they innovate? What will happen is that the competition will copy their ideas and release their games for the PS2/XBOX and that game will then be heralded for innovating, while Nintendo still remains "kiddy".

Quote:

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Originally posted by MVS
Putting 2 people on a Kart is re-inventing the Genre?

What's next?

Nintendo re-invents the golf genre by putting ball washers in it?

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What has been done by anyone else to move the Kart genre forward, then? Every other Kart game has been identical to Mario Kart, with nothing added.

Quote:

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Originally posted by xS
...Moji Ribbon are part of this generation, FYI.

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Sorry about that.:)

Actually, a little off topic but could you tell me what this game is. I've never heard of it before. Thanks.

[]What will happen is that the competition will copy their ideas and release their games for the PS2/XBOX and that game will then be heralded for innovating, while Nintendo still remains "kiddy".[/i]
:icepick:Hahaha, since when have Sega, MS, or Sony been credited for anything Nintendo has done?

Putting 2 people on a Kart is not re-inventing the genre, any more than putting a backpack on Mario re-invents platformers, adding online to GT4 re-invents the racing genre or adding dual sub-machine guns for Halo2 re-invents the FPS genre.

Btw, Moji Ribbon is a game which has you writing Japanese Kanji.

Quote:

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Originally posted by xS
Btw, Moji Ribbon is a game which has you writing Japanese Kanji.

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there's also that sony game that directly interfaces with the aibo. gimmicky as hell, but innovative.)

Quote:

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Originally posted by Spike
They've taken a step back because they don't have the market power. Why should they innovate? What will happen is that the competition will copy their ideas and release their games for the PS2/XBOX and that game will then be heralded for innovating, while Nintendo still remains "kiddy".

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I know, Nintendo leads the way, like:

The analog console controller Nintendo made...after Sega did or the auto-jump used in TOOT...after it was in Burning Rangers.

Not to mention the massive innovation of taking character's names, changing the first letter and making them villians.

Quote:

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Originally posted by MVS
Putting 2 people on a Kart is not re-inventing the genre, any more than putting a backpack on Mario re-invents platformers, adding online to GT4 re-invents the racing genre or adding dual sub-machine guns for Halo2 re-invents the FPS genre.

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So then, having various powerups that work better for certain characters, the ability to steal the other peoples powerups, the ability to switch between drivers and use their advantages during the race, the ability to choose a kart and have to factor in size and the weight of the two characters that you chose doesn't advance the genre?

Advance the genre? Sure.

Re-invent it? No.

Quote:

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Originally posted by MVS
I know, Nintendo leads the way, like:

The analog console controller Nintendo made...after Sega did or the auto-jump used in TOOT...after it was in Burning Rangers.

Not to mention the massive innovation of taking character's names, changing the first letter and making them villians.

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Actually, Nintendo annouced the analog controller first.

And, I assume you mean Wario. As far as I know he's the only one. Well then, how about Solid Snake, Liquid Snake, and Solidus Snake?

Quote:

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Originally posted by MVS
Advance the genre? Sure.

Re-invent it? No.

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Oh, I understand now. Sorry, but it's too early for me.;) But, would you agree that if every kart game clones DD that it in some way has reinvented the genre?

Annouce is not ship.

Wario, Waluigi...

How about Snakes? They are clones of the same person.

Quote:

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Originally posted by MVS
Annouce is not ship.

Wario, Waluigi...

How about Snakes? They are clones of the same person.

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But they actually showed it first.

Waluigi is two letters, mate.:p

Sony are the superior 1st party IMO. Ape Escape 2, ICO and Ore no Ryouri are fucking fantastic games.

Okay, they added 'wa' to 'rio' and 'luigi'.

Nintendo is just as innovative as anyone else, and that means some innovation, a lot of doing what other people have already done.

Like analog controllers (done on PC's years before) and whatnot.

Quote:

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Originally posted by MVS
Nintendo is just as innovative as anyone else, and that means some innovation, a lot of doing what other people have already done.

Like analog controllers (done on PC's years before) and whatnot.

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I agree with you.

Quote:

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Originally posted by Sidez
Ape Escape 2, ICO and Ore no Ryouri are fucking fantastic games.

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Ungh, MVS is bringing out the Alex Ferguson in me.

Uh...why are you quoting yourself?

And what does the greatest manager in modern football have to do with it?

I thought you were a manu enthusiast, obviously not. Forget about it.

I am, but I'm still missing the point there.

And, it's Sir Alex Ferguson, btw.

When Veron was criticised in an interview to Alexus he totally flipped "What the fuck are you talking about? Veron is a fucking great player. Fucking idiots the lot of you" then banned them all from Old Trafford. Awesome footballing moment.

Sounds okay. Not as good as The Keegan.

'I would love it if we beat them.' Yeah, yeah, you lost and choked.

Ron Atkinson has Keegan beat when it comes to quotes. Big Ron is such a joker.

http://enquirer.com/editions/2000/09/05/derail.jpg

seriously. i was really hoping this thread would go somewhere.

Oh well. I guess we can't have a Nintendo discussion around here without the trolls ruining it. :rolleyes:

According to Wired magazine, Apple Computer has increased it's profits while losing it's market share, keeping the company afloat even though it should have gone under long ago. Sure a little investment by Billy G helped out, but it doesn't require a massive user base to make money.

Since all that matters in business is making money, Nintendo has the potential to stay around forever. They may not have a commanding sales lead on whatever competitor is winning at the time but they can still turn a profit and make games.

Nintendo could survive as the Apple of the console market :D

And they still have the Gameboy.

#6

http://www.gamesarefun.com/cgi-bin/n...3605988,29517,

As I said in the other thread, Nintendo are being real bitches with the SP distribution. They're just creating more demand for it which is smart I guess but if they had more products available they'd sell twice as more instead of having the customer frustrated and deciding to buy something else. Not anything new in the business of console/games or anything but a reason for its success.

They need to shake their image with their next console and have some huge hitting launch titles to shake the market along with their new look. That and that alone will make Nintendo a house-hold name again.

Also, follow up the first two years with mature and teen franchises. They are making waves, though, by buddying with 3rd parties.