I've gone RGB.

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22 May 2003, 04:37 PM
skelly

I've gone RGB.

(If you don't know what RGB is, check out this primer.)

So, at some point last year I bought a used XRGB-2 for about $160. (I got the original 2, not the 2+. The original is supposed to be better for certain applications, like displaying Genesis graphics.) I also got Japanese-style RGB cables for Genesis, SNES, PSX and Saturn, $5 a pop. It was the beginning of a solid RGB gaming setup, but I had a crap PC monitor at the time, so everything went into the hardware closet to await future use.

Just recently I got a new PC thanks to a super deal from Dell (see the discount thread), and it seemed an opportune time to buy a new monitor. After reading tons 'o reviews over two days, I decided on the 19" Samsung 957 MB (Magic Bright). Well, I've since learned that monitor reviews and manufacturer specs are no substitute for seeing a screen in person. If I had seen it in action beforehand, I would not have purchased that monitor. Live and learn.

In any case, I now had an ideal setup to take advantage of the XRGB-2. Out from the closet it came, and I hooked it up to my first-gen PSX. (Then I flipped the PSX over so it would actually work.) I booted Castlevania: SotN, and after a few adjustments found that RGB lived up to its reputation for clarity and sharpness. But let me get back to that monitor for a moment.

The 957 MB, despite some shortcomings, has one very interesting feature: Magic Bright. Pushing the MB button toggles the monitor between three brightness modes. Normal computer use is best done in the dimmest mode, as fine text gets blurrier as the screen gets brighter. However, I've found the latter two MB modes to be perfect for RGB gaming; The extra brightness really brings out the vibrant colors that RGB is known for. It looks great. The monitor also works fine for TATE-enabled games, though flipping a ~53 pound monitor is a little annoying.

So, just to share the goodness a bit and give an idea of how it looks, I decided to take some digicam pics of games running through the XRGB-2. They're pretty poorly focused, really, but it's the best I could do with my roommate's pocket-sized camera. That said, they have that mysterious, "glowy" look of old-school game mag screenshots (see EGM circa 1991), which is actually pretty darn cool IMO. I put a * next to the pics that came out sharpest. As you'll see, the Genesis really shines when liberated from its crap composite video output.

Bloodlines #1
Bloodlines #2 *
Bloodlines #3
Bloodlines #4
Bloodlines #5 *
Bloodlines #6

Capcom Generations 5 #1 * (Saturn ver.)
Capcom Generations 5 #2
Capcom Generations 5 #3 *
Capcom Generations 5 #4 *
Capcom Generations 5 #5 *
Capcom Generations 5 #6
Capcom Generations 5 #7 *

Sonic #1 *
Sonic #2
Sonic #3 *
Sonic #4 *
Sonic #5 *

Phelios #1 *
Phelios #2 *
Phelios #3

Setup #1 (Wide view of desk)
Setup #2 (Closer view of XRGB setup)

I hope you find this interesting, and I highly recommend making the leap to RGB if it's practical for you.
22 May 2003, 06:24 PM
Master

I too am never going back.

Ever.
22 May 2003, 06:30 PM
bahn

Looks cool. but I rather see them on plasma ;)
22 May 2003, 06:34 PM
Ryan

I just got RGB myself yesterday as well, thanks to Matt!

I got a 29" Multi-Scan monitor. With it I can play all my older consoles (Saturn, N64, Genesis, SNES, PSX) in RGB, and at the same time, play my newer Consoles (PS2,GC,Dreamcast) in Progressive Scan/VGA (games that support it of course).
22 May 2003, 07:25 PM
impulse

Where did you find the RGB cables for the older consoles?
22 May 2003, 07:57 PM
galvatron

I just put my genesis in my arcade cab...SO much better than composite video. I've got a flat-screen HDTV and genesis through composite on that thing looks like crap compared to RGB on a nice monitor.
22 May 2003, 08:30 PM
skelly

Quote:

Originally posted by impulse
Where did you find the RGB cables for the older consoles?

I bought them with my XRGB.

NCSX.com was making custom cables for a while, but last I checked they had not made a new batch in over a year. Perhaps emailing them to say you're interested would be helpful.

You could also get them made by people with the requisite skills and knowledge, like the aforementioned Matt.
22 May 2003, 10:05 PM
Ryan

Quote:

Originally posted by impulse
Where did you find the RGB cables for the older consoles?

Matt, of course ;)
22 May 2003, 10:49 PM
Zerodash

Congrats to all who live in RGB- its a wonderful thing.

Had I not been laid off, I would've gone RGB this past March. Oh, woe is me.

*waits for Click_Stick to enter this thread*
22 May 2003, 10:56 PM
Click_Stick

Quote:

Originally posted by Zerodash
*waits for Click_Stick to enter this thread*

Heh, I've been reading.

Funny thing is: I bought a Commodore monitor with no knowledge of anything RGB-related [just wanted a good monitor for some tate-ing.]

...Now I dare not play games on anything else.
22 May 2003, 11:39 PM
Videodrone

I picked up a Commodore monitor about 2 months ago, but have been waiting until i move next month to get my RGB grove on...
22 May 2003, 11:57 PM
Cheebs

Quote:

Originally posted by impulse
Where did you find the RGB cables for the older consoles?

I make many of mine. Order $3 Scart cables, cut off the Scart ends, and attach what you need.

And yes, you never go back. You just can't. :)
23 May 2003, 12:01 AM
sleeve

Ditto to everything said here.

Make sure to play Contra: Hard Corps on your new setup. It's an absolute joy in RGB.
23 May 2003, 02:12 AM
OmegaFlareX

Quote:

Originally posted by Valgar
I got a 29" Multi-Scan monitor.

Where did you get that?!?! I want one.
23 May 2003, 02:29 AM
galvatron

Quote:

Originally posted by sleeveboy
Ditto to everything said here.

Make sure to play Contra: Hard Corps on your new setup. It's an absolute joy in RGB.

First thing I put in...
23 May 2003, 10:22 AM
Adrian

I'm happy for you guys :)
23 May 2003, 10:27 AM
Cheebs

Quote:

Originally posted by OmegaFlareX
Where did you get that?!?! I want one.

Check Wells Gardner. I don't know if that's what he has, but I got a 27 inch multi-sync that sounds quite similar to that from WG.
23 May 2003, 12:04 PM
StriderKyo

Slightly off topic - on older games, specifically alot of genesis and TG-16 stuff there are dark single-line "spaces" between rows of pixels (check the backgrounds in those Phelios shots, for instance). What are those called? Because I loved those things for some reason.
23 May 2003, 12:24 PM
Cheebs

scanlines. I belive when you use the XRGB they are fake "simulated" scanlines. If you hook up RGB straight to a propper 15 hz analogue monitor, you get real scanlines.
23 May 2003, 01:16 PM
skelly

Right. XRGB-2 has an option to generate fake scanlines. At first I didn't like them, as they seemed to make the image look darker than it would with real scanlines. However, I later found them to be very preferable to the overly pixelated line-doubled look that low-res games have without them.
23 May 2003, 01:36 PM
StriderKyo

What's the deal with them? Like, why are they there?
23 May 2003, 02:20 PM
Kentaochstoffe

Whats the difference between this and a normal tv(pal) hooked up with rgb cables?
23 May 2003, 03:01 PM
Cheebs

Quote:

Originally posted by StriderKyo
What's the deal with them? Like, why are they there?

They are, quite simply, lines created from (the electron beam) scanning. When the resolution is that low (300 or so lines vertically), there is some space in between the scans of the gun. The black lines are just the increadibly tiny portion of the screen that never get lit up by the scanning gun. In high res progressive scan, there are no gaps and thus the whole monitor is "lit up". Trust me, it's a good thing they're there. Pixels are not ment to look like sharp squares. They should have softer edges, and that is exactly what scan lines give them.

Quote:

Originally posted by BenT
Right. XRGB-2 has an option to generate fake scanlines. At first I didn't like them, as they seemed to make the image look darker than it would with real scanlines. However, I later found them to be very preferable to the overly pixelated line-doubled look that low-res games have without them.

Hey BenT, for kicks you should get yourself a $20 Commodore analogue RGB monitor and hook a Saturn or something simmilarly RGB friendly (no need to strip sync from composite video like a Playstation or SNES) and see what that looks like. It's even better when you are not upscanning. :)

Quote:

Originally posted by Kentaochstoffe
Whats the difference between this and a normal tv(pal) hooked up with rgb cables?

The difference between the XRGB and Scart TV's is the upscanning done in the XRGB needed to display a signal on a VGA monitor. You are actually better of with a Scart TV since the upscanning can be avoided. We just can't get Scart TV's in the US. :(
23 May 2003, 03:29 PM
StriderKyo

Quote:

Originally posted by Chibi Nappa
They are, quite simply, lines created from (the electron beam) scanning. When the resolution is that low (300 or so lines vertically), there is some space in between the scans of the gun. The black lines are just the increadibly tiny portion of the screen that never get lit up by the scanning gun. In high res progressive scan, there are no gaps and thus the whole monitor is "lit up". Trust me, it's a good thing they're there. Pixels are not ment to look like sharp squares. They should have softer edges, and that is exactly what scan lines give them.

I totally agree, that's why I like them. People often unfairly jump on PC Engine games for looking like they belong on the NES because they're just playing them through emulation. Those lines make a massive difference.
23 May 2003, 03:37 PM
Ryan

Quote:

Originally posted by Chibi Nappa
Check Wells Gardner. I don't know if that's what he has, but I got a 27 inch multi-sync that sounds quite similar to that from WG.

I actually found a Mitsubishi MegaView 29 (AM-2725A). Matt gave me this list of multi-scan monitors and it is very usefull for finding monitors that can do 15 hz

http://lsturaro.sites.uol.com.br/mon15khz.html

I found the perfect thing to represent RGB yesterday. I was playing Yoshi's Island for SNES. One of the mini-games is to collect more coins than your opponent.

Well at the top of the screen during this game are three square boxes colored Red, Green, and Blue. In RGB they are so damn perfect it is unbeleivable.
23 May 2003, 06:10 PM
undamned

I'll hopefully be trying out my new Apple IIGS RGB monitor, this weekend. Cute little 13incher and looks just as symetrical vertically as it does horizontally :D

I've got a few cabs, but I kinda wanted something that could float around the house. I also want to try applying one of those cheap magnification kits you see on ebay and see how it looks projected on one of my walls :D
-ud
23 May 2003, 06:37 PM
skelly

Quote:

Originally posted by Valgar
I actually found a Mitsubishi MegaView 29 (AM-2725A).

Hmm, sounds cool. Does that thing have overscan like a TV, or none like a proper VGA monitor?
24 May 2003, 02:38 AM
Melf

I was considering getting an inexpensive monitor for some DC tate playing but they're so expensive. Where'd you guys get those cheap Commodore monitors?
26 May 2003, 12:23 PM
VNZ

Quote:

Whats the difference between this and a normal tv(pal) hooked up with rgb cables?

None! Except if you're actually playing in PAL mode the scanlines are slighty less visible.

Also, many of the new (stupid) widescreen / 100Hz / etc tv-sets can't properly display a non-interlaced image.. Never ever use a stupid modern TV for gaming, it's practically like playing in an emulator with those ridiculous SuperSAI/Eagle/etc filters - they often even get the not-100%-smooth-scrolling (as often seen when running emus) right.

Perhaps one should stock up on good old 4:3 29" TV's without any type of "image enhancement" while they're still available.. :)
26 May 2003, 12:57 PM
Videodrone

Quote:

Originally posted by Melf
I was considering getting an inexpensive monitor for some DC tate playing but they're so expensive. Where'd you guys get those cheap Commodore monitors?

Goodwill, used electronic stores...places like that...if there is a place that sells old office equipment in you area stop by, chance are that have had some old RGB monitor sitting around forever...
26 May 2003, 07:48 PM
Kentaochstoffe

Vnz..

Those 100hz tvs are nothing but trouble, not just for videogames. I have a 50hz 4:3 triniton from 97 wich is running on its last leg, and instead of buying a new expensive 16:9 100hz tv ive been thinking about buying one 50hz 16:9 29-32inch for movies and one 25-29 triniton for gaming.
29 May 2003, 05:00 PM
undamned

It's alive!

Got the IIGS running, night before last :D
http://members.cox.net/~undamned/IIGSrunnin.jpg
-ud
29 May 2003, 05:08 PM
padman

Sweet as a 'king nut mate.
29 May 2003, 05:16 PM
Cheebs

Nice! I just got ahold of a IIGS to use as a second monitor, and I can't find those damn 15 pin connectors to make a cable out of.
29 May 2003, 05:55 PM
undamned

Quote:

Originally posted by Chibi Nappa
...those damn 15 pin connectors to make a cable out of.

I would think them easy to find at computer stores? Maybe Radio Shack or something? Mine came with the cable, so I didn't have to dig. Maybe you can find a DB15 to DB9 converter, the kind you can break open and arrange wires how you need, and then use a 9 pin serial cable. All you use is Red, Green, Blue, Ground for each, and Sync.
-ud
29 May 2003, 08:59 PM
MechDeus

I'll probably be moving some stuff onto RGB soon, as I just found out one of my friends can get approx 24" (not sure of the exact size) monitors with RGB hookups for $150. That sort of thing makes me happy.

Just what I needed, something else to infect my A/Vphilism. [/sarcasm]
29 May 2003, 11:00 PM
OmegaFlareX

I hopped on the RGB bandwagon last night. Got myself a Commodore 1084 for cheap on ebay ($20 + shipping). Now I have to figure out where the hell I'm going to put it once it gets here...

My RGB setup for now will be my 16-bit systems. I'll be selling my model 3 Genesis to get a model 1 (for SMS games ^_^) and I need to contact Matt about getting my Duo modded for RGB. The rest of my systems (NES, Saturn, PS1, GameCube) will stay on the TV (I'm planning on getting a new one soon w/ S-vid & component inputs), and the DC will remain on VGA through this monitor.

Eventually, I'm going to get a second monitor to set up a RGB TATE station with its own Saturn, PS1 (or PS2), and DC systems. My future game room is going to rock.
30 May 2003, 01:32 AM
Matt

Quote:

Originally posted by Chibi Nappa
Nice! I just got ahold of a IIGS to use as a second monitor, and I can't find those damn 15 pin connectors to make a cable out of.

DB15 connectors? They have them by the boatload at any serious electronics shop.

I always order mine from www.jameco.com - they're about 50 cents each. I can get them locally, but Honolulu's parts stores tend to overcharge on that kind of thing.
30 May 2003, 01:46 AM
gamevet

Quote:

Originally posted by Click_Stick
Heh, I've been reading.

Funny thing is: I bought a Commodore monitor with no knowledge of anything RGB-related [just wanted a good monitor for some tate-ing.]

...Now I dare not play games on anything else.

I have a Commodore 1084S, but have never used it for anything beyond C-64 and Amiga. Is this the same model you have? If so, where can I get RGB cables for my game systems?
30 May 2003, 02:32 AM
Matt

Quote:

Originally posted by gamevet
If so, where can I get RGB cables for my game systems?

If you're looking for RGB cables, feel free to send me a PM - I'm sure I could help you out :)

The 1084s is an excellent monitor for gaming - one of the best RGB monitors out there, as long as you don't mind the small size.