Ain't that the truth...so, uh, really. Was it sarcasm? ;)Quote:
Originally posted by red_war_machine
That, of course, is the undying beauty of the Internet.
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Ain't that the truth...so, uh, really. Was it sarcasm? ;)Quote:
Originally posted by red_war_machine
That, of course, is the undying beauty of the Internet.
Whoops. I was referencing the petty stuff being said in this thread, I didn't actually see the guestbook on THEIR site. I still think people here (where we know nobody is really hatefull) should get over the little stuff, but I hadn't seen what some people had written in the guestbook of a site for kids who are just trying to do something positive. I apologise.Quote:
Originally posted by teenwolf
Wow, really? So basically most societies are based on just how much you can mock things and not be condemned for it? Does this extend to mocking based on race or sexual preference, or how about physical deformity?? Cause if it doesn't, then you have a nice little double standard going there, which Zerodash already pointed out.
Doesn't excuse my flame bait post, but I just thought I'd clear that up.
What I was saying about religion wasn't that it's an insta-fix to our souls but rather that too many seem to say (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) that the only way we can ever become better individuals is to accept -deity- into our lives. Without -deity- we will never become better, no matter how we strive, but rather live our lives in sinful ignorance. Or something.
What I'm saying is that mere human will mixed with a desire to be a better individual is enough, assuming an actual attempt is made. Of course, where religion comes in is that it gives a set of rules or laws telling us what a human being should act like. I'm also saying here that someone who can understand the consequences of his actions and hasn't grown up a total psycho can pretty much figure out for himself that certain things like stealing or adultery are wrong. Thou shalt not screw over thy neighbor doesn't need to be a commandment handed down from on high but rather basic common decency. No matter how many people screw that one up it's not a huge mystery of life.
Explanatory note- went to church every single Sunday for 18 years and never got anything out of it other than a sore butt. Wooden pews aren't exactly designed for comfort, I tell you. Anyway, the whole spirituality thing just goes right over my head, so I tend to look at the moral aspect instead.
The "Turd Mountain" crack was meant to refer back to an earlier post about people who say they're Christian but are just total weasels. Lie/cheat/steal and then show up at church on Sunday to make it all better. Probably should have made that a little clearer, sorry.
James
Rama said Jesus loves everyone and EVERYTHING as if the two things go hand in hand.Quote:
Originally posted by red_war_machine
How can you say that? That is the FUNDAMENTAL CONSTANT of christianity - that God loves each and every person on this earth.
However:
"Six things the Lord hates, Yes, seven are an abomination to Him:
A proud look,
A lying tongue,
Hands that shed innocent blood,
A heart that devises wicked plans,
Feet that are swift in running to evil,
A false witness who speaks lies,
And one who sows discord among brethren.
Proverbs 6:16-19
God does not love everyone and everything. God has killed people for their transgressions. God WILL condemn the unrighteous dead to damnation and eternal suffering at the White Throne Judgement.
Everyone wants to ignore this side of God that is holy and righteous, and just play up the "God is love" side because that's what's comfortable. They don't believe that a God of love could kill or condemn people to Hell and they are right. A God of love would not do such a thing, but a just, righteous and holy God would.
God is NOT a monodeity. He is triune. He is three and one and one and three.
Did you stop taking your medication?Quote:
Originally posted by Master of 7s
Rama said Jesus loves everyone and EVERYTHING as if the two things go hand in hand.
However:
"Six things the Lord hates, Yes, seven are an abomination to Him:
A proud look,
A lying tongue,
Hands that shed innocent blood,
A heart that devises wicked plans,
Feet that are swift in running to evil,
A false witness who speaks lies,
And one who sows discord among brethren.
Proverbs 6:16-19
God does not love everyone and everything. God has killed people for their transgressions. God WILL condemn the unrighteous dead to damnation and eternal suffering at the White Throne Judgement.
Everyone wants to ignore this side of God that is holy and righteous, and just play up the "God is love" side because that's what's comfortable. They don't believe that a God of love could kill or condemn people to Hell and they are right. A God of love would not do such a thing, but a just, righteous and holy God would.
God is NOT a monodeity. He is triune. He is three and one and one and three.
SOK,i noticed you never gave me any quotes, we just must not be as representative of the christian populice as you believe your sampling is, sorry.
I would say that the first approach youmention, the "only with god" approach is inherently flawed, because it givesthe indicvidual cop-out room,and removes the locus of control,and furthermore,the responsibility for the outcome, from the individual's hands.Quote:
Originally posted by James
What I was saying about religion wasn't that it's an insta-fix to our souls but rather that too many seem to say (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) that the only way we can ever become better individuals is to accept -deity- into our lives. Without -deity- we will never become better, no matter how we strive, but rather live our lives in sinful ignorance. Or something.
What I'm saying is that mere human will mixed with a desire to be a better individual is enough, assuming an actual attempt is made. Of course, where religion comes in is that it gives a set of rules or laws telling us what a human being should act like. I'm also saying here that someone who can understand the consequences of his actions and hasn't grown up a total psycho can pretty much figure out for himself that certain things like stealing or adultery are wrong. Thou shalt not screw over thy neighbor doesn't need to be a commandment handed down from on high but rather basic common decency. No matter how many people screw that one up it's not a huge mystery of life.
James
The reason that alcaholics anonomous, or any faith based organization ads the religious element into the mix, is because they are dealing with particularly difficult addictions,that a large percentage of people cannot beat using just their "will". so the religious element is brought in as an anchoring element where the individual can look to when their own resistance is broken.
And in ragardto yoru secondparagraph..you would be surprised what people can rationalize as far as behavior is concerned,so long as they profit from it.the desire for advancing people's own wants is far more to blame for any breach of ethics than "growing up psycho".Its all about self interest and greed,common sense has nothing to do with it.
Complete and utter rubbish. God loves us all - no matter what we do, he will forgive. That is the teaching of the New Testament - your views are from before Jesus came, man. Jesus came and he banished all of those thoughts because they're not true.Quote:
Originally posted by Master of 7s
Rama said Jesus loves everyone and EVERYTHING as if the two things go hand in hand.
However:
"Six things the Lord hates, Yes, seven are an abomination to Him:
A proud look,
A lying tongue,
Hands that shed innocent blood,
A heart that devises wicked plans,
Feet that are swift in running to evil,
A false witness who speaks lies,
And one who sows discord among brethren.
Proverbs 6:16-19
God does not love everyone and everything. God has killed people for their transgressions. God WILL condemn the unrighteous dead to damnation and eternal suffering at the White Throne Judgement.
Everyone wants to ignore this side of God that is holy and righteous, and just play up the "God is love" side because that's what's comfortable. They don't believe that a God of love could kill or condemn people to Hell and they are right. A God of love would not do such a thing, but a just, righteous and holy God would.
God is NOT a monodeity. He is triune. He is three and one and one and three.
God could strike down any one of us at any time. He doesn't. In fact, he sent his son to DIE so that EVERY PERSON IN THE WORLD could be saved. Not just the ones he liked - EVERYONE. And then, on the cross, Jesus forgave those who had hurt him, saying "They know not what they do".
I don't see what the 'triune' point has to do with anything. Three parts of god, each not one third of God but one whole of God, yet each a whole in their own right. The most seductive mystery of them all - it's a beautiful thing. But that does not mean that he can't love us all. He can, and does - I find it horrific to believe that a fellow Christian believes God to be capable of hatred.
Really, I do. I'm astounded. What denomination are you?
EDIT: I see what you mean about the triune point now. However, you're missing a fundamental point which we learn about with the trinity. Each Part of God is, in themselves, the whole God. Therefore if you're trying to say that Jesus loves us but God doesn't - that's flawed. Jesus is, inherently, God. Doesn't the Holy Spirit bestow his gifts upon all of us? Aren't we all given an equal chance to live? If God was as omniscient as we like to believe he is, he wouldn't let people be born who were capable of such actions towards good human beings that he does love.
Not a mystery. Its a round-about way of saying god is infinite. 3 parts that are equal to the whole as well as each other and so forth.Quote:
Three parts of god, each not one third of God but one whole of God, yet each a whole in their own right. .The most seductive mystery of them all - it's a beautiful thing.
the site was funny. The hipness reminded me of an old show I saw once on one of the christian networks. It was about a tough christian that spreads the word of god with his fists. A scene:
Smoking guy: "Hey man, you got a light?"
tough christian: "Yeah, and I'm gonna let it shine."
The tough christian then knocks the smoker to the floor. I believe he also glared at the camera, but I may have just inserted that bit in the end for my own amusement.
...I think I'll have to pass.Quote:
originally posted by that fantastic website
WE WANT TO HELP YOU DEVELOP STRONG CHRISTIAN FRIENDSHIPS, LEARN TO DEAL WITH PEER PRESSURE AND TELL YOU ALL THE FUN SECRET STUFF WE CHRISTIANS DO WHEN WE
KICK IT WITH CHRIST.
Hyper religious people really get to me sometimes. I mean you see all these "adults" believing in stuff that most reasonably intelligent 6th graders would scoff at. To me it's the equivalent of people who buy into guys like Tony Robbins and happily send them hundreds of dollars. You watch those early morning church shows and it's scary just how brainwashed all those people are.
There was a Q and A section on one the other day and it was hilarious. Here was one of the questions:
"How long do you have to pray for God to cure cancer?"
An adult wrote that. Then the guy goes on to say that "Well, if it's not God's plan to save them then no amount of praying will help." Give me a fucking break. How anyone could seriously buy into the shit they spew is beyond me. If you have cancer, go to a doctor. If you die it isn't because God didn't feel like helping you out, it's because you have a terminal illness.
He did say that annointing yourself with oil might help though.
...if you believe rubbing oil on your forehead is going to cure cancer, I feel sorry for you.
Not EVERY sin will be forgiven. Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, which is essentially dying w/o Christ, is the only thing that will not be forgiven.Quote:
Originally posted by red_war_machine
Complete and utter rubbish. God loves us all - no matter what we do, he will forgive.
Wait, wait, wait. So are you telling me that God's going to be handing out lolipops and blankies while He sends people to "The Bad Place" for being naughty when everything in this age comes to an end?Quote:
That is the teaching of the New Testament - your views are from before Jesus came, man. Jesus came and he banished all of those thoughts because they're not true.
"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but thay the world through Him might be saved. He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light , because their deeds were evil. For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. But who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God." John 3:16-21Quote:
God could strike down any one of us at any time. He doesn't. In fact, he sent his son to DIE so that EVERY PERSON IN THE WORLD could be saved. Not just the ones he liked - EVERYONE. And then, on the cross, Jesus forgave those who had hurt him, saying "They know not what they do".
Yet at the same time.
"What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not! For He says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion." So then it not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "Even for this same purpose I have raised you up, that I might show My power in you, and that My name might be declared in all the earth." Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens. You will say to me then, "Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?" But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God?
Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, "Why have you made me like this?" Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor? What if God, wanting to show His wrath, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory, even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentile?" Romans 9:14-24
Now you're putting words in my mouth. Please point out where I said God hates anyone? I simply said God does not love everyone and everything. That is not the same as hatred.Quote:
I don't see what the 'triune' point has to do with anything. Three parts of god, each not one third of God but one whole of God, yet each a whole in their own right. The most seductive mystery of them all - it's a beautiful thing. But that does not mean that he can't love us all. He can, and does - I find it horrific to believe that a fellow Christian believes God to be capable of hatred.
I don't have a denomination, I am a Christian.Quote:
Really, I do. I'm astounded. What denomination are you?
And you are missing the point that while God is triune each whole part is not equal to the others. Jesus is God, but He is God only because the Father has made Him God. Because He(the Father) put all things under Him(Jesus) and gave Him authority over all things excepting Himself(the Father), obviously.Quote:
EDIT: I see what you mean about the triune point now. However, you're missing a fundamental point which we learn about with the trinity. Each Part of God is, in themselves, the whole God. Therefore if you're trying to say that Jesus loves us but God doesn't - that's flawed. Jesus is, inherently, God. Doesn't the Holy Spirit bestow his gifts upon all of us? Aren't we all given an equal chance to live? If God was as omniscient as we like to believe he is, he wouldn't let people be born who were capable of such actions towards good human beings that he does love.
Moreover, only God the Father knows when the end of the age is to take place. Even Jesus Himself isn't privy to this bit of info.
"But of that day and hour no one knows, no, not even the angels of heaven, But My Father only." Matthew 24:36
I hope you understand what I'm trying to say.