ONE OF US! ONE OF US!
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ONE OF US! ONE OF US!
Quote:
Originally posted by Master of 7s
WE ARE THE CHRISTIANS. YOU WILL BE ASSIMILATED. RESISTANCE IS FUTILE.
No, I'm willing to bet I won't be.
Since when did Christians become the borg?
Since the christian trekkies became jealous of the UK's recognition of Jedi as a religion on the census.
I'm glad that I understood that the intent of this thread was to laugh at the poor HTML skills of some well-meaning person out there.
We agree here...it's this next part that bothers me:Quote:
Originally posted by red_war_machine
I, for instance, believe that God did not 'create' Jesus or the Holy Spirit. They are simply a part of him - all three are God, always will be God and, most importantly, always have been God.
This is wrong. You believe in a one-dimentional falacy. God is love, yes, but God is just, God cannot bear the prescence of sin, and God is jealous. You simply cannot leave those parts out because they sound "hateful" or because they don't paint a portrait of "love."Quote:
I believe in an all-loving God. I believe that he loves each and every one of us because we are his children. As the Father of everything he is a good parent - has to be - and so it doesn't make sense that he would do anything to harm his own creation.
Second, in one of your previous posts, you mention that Seven's is "portraying the God of the OT." I don't know about you, but my God, that is Jesus Christ, The Eternal Father, and the Holy Spirit, never change. He is the Alpha and Omega, the Ancient of days, the same yesterday, today, and forever.
He didn't change all of a sudden from OT to NT. His covenant with us, however, did.
Therefore, God is still the God of the OT, and His wrath and judgement are still very much relivant.
Then you simply do not understand Him. First of all, the statement should read, "If God is truly all loving, I don't see how he can justify sending anybody to Hell." Condemnation is very much a part of justice. How could a just God not damn anyone to Hell?Quote:
If God is truly just, I don't see how he can justify sending anybody to Hell,...
And you know what? An all loving God wouldn't send anyone to Hell...but my God is not so one dimentional. My God is Justice, Love, Peace, Wrath, and the only true God. My God's name is Jesus; the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
I most definitly can. I said what I said here extremely respectfully, and knowing full well you're not going to "change your mind," as it were. Are you Unitarian by any chance?Quote:
So, yes I understand. I just don't agree. I just hope that you can say the same about my beliefs. :)
And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh. KJV Isaiah 66:24Quote:
Originally posted by Master of 7s
Hmm....ya know what. I reread Revelations and I realize that it only says that the devil, the beast and the false prophet will suffer eternal torment in the lake of fire. And that those not found in the Book of Life are merely cast into the lake of fire. I take this to mean they share the same fate as the devil and his angels (eternal punishment) but since it isn't specified in the text, maybe my assumption is wrong. I doubt it though.
Clearly speaking about humans in Hell, and their punishment being unending. An undying worm, and an immutable fire. Seems eternal to me, as well as tormenting.
Please don't tell me it was OT and therefore not relivant. Isaiah spoke about Jesus as well, thereby proving his prophesy to hold true to the NT covenant.
Actually, all men will be judged. "All men die once, then judgement." The difference is that the unrighteous will be damned to Hell, and the righteous will be blessed with crowns to throw at Christ's feet.Quote:
Originally posted by Master of 7s
The White Throne Judgement is reserved for the unrighteous dead BTW.
That "crowns" bit was a metaphor. ;)
Does the Bible actually speak of a "Rapture?" Be very sure about your answer before you comit to it. ;)Quote:
AFTER the millenial reign and the final rebellion of satan against the saints of God. The dead in Christ will receive their judgement at the time of the Rapture.
Also, my goal is not to "correct" you. What I have said in relation to your posts are ment to supplement, not supercede. I love you, man, and would never do anything to publicly huminiate you, including "trumping" you like that. If, however, I came off that way, I am truely sorry.
BLAM!!! Knew I could count on ya CV. Yes God is love, but their are many facets to His personality even the Family doesn't understand.Quote:
Originally posted by Captain Vegetable
We agree here...it's this next part that bothers me:
This is wrong. You believe in a one-dimentional falacy. God is love, yes, but God is just, God cannot bear the prescence of sin, and God is jealous. You simply cannot leave those parts out because they sound "hateful" or because they don't paint a portrait of "love."
Second, in one of your previous posts, you mention that Seven's is "portraying the God of the OT." I don't know about you, but my God, that is Jesus Christ, The Eternal Father, and the Holy Spirit, never change. He is the Alpha and Omega, the Ancient of days, the same yesterday, today, and forever.
He didn't change all of a sudden from OT to NT. His covenant with us, however, did.
Therefore, God is still the God of the OT, and His wrath and judgement are still very much relivant.
Then you simply do not understand Him. First of all, the statement should read, "If God is truly all loving, I don't see how he can justify sending anybody to Hell." Condemnation is very much a part of justice. How could a just God not damn anyone to Hell?
And you know what? An all loving God wouldn't send anyone to Hell...but my God is not so one dimentional. My God is Justice, Love, Peace, Wrath, and the only true God. My God's name is Jesus; the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
*sigh*Quote:
And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh. KJV Isaiah 66:24
Clearly speaking about humans in Hell, and their punishment being unending. And undying worm, and an immutable fire. Seems eternal to me, as well as tormenting.
Please don't tell me it was OT and therefore not relivant. Isaiah spoke about Jesus as well, thereby proving his prophesy to hold true to the NT covenant.
I need to bone up on my Old Testament.:sweat:
Glad you're a pastor and not me.
Hm..I always thought it was two separate judgements. One for the believers in Christ before the Millenial Kingdom and one for the unrighteous after the casting down of satan and the destruction of the deceived nations. Need to reread that.Quote:
Actually, all men will be judged. "All men die once, then judgement." The difference is that the unrighteous will be damned to Hell, and the righteous will be blessed with crowns to throw at Christ's feet.
That "crowns" bit was a metaphor. ;)
C'mon bro, gimme some credit.;) The Bible speaks in Thesselonians of the trump of the archangel that shall sound whereby the dead in Christ shall rise first then those of us who live shall be caught up with them to meet our Lord in the clouds. Afterwards we shall receive our celestial bodies and return to earth with the Lord at His Second Coming seven years later.Quote:
Does the Bible actually speak of a "Rapture?" Be very sure about your answer before you comit to it. ;)
The word Rapture is never used anywhere in the Bible.
Hey dammit, if I'm coming off wrong at any time you'd better correct me. ;)Quote:
Also, my goal is not to "correct" you. What I have said in relation to your posts are ment to supplement, not supercede. I love you, man, and would never do anything to publicly huminiate you, including "trumping" you like that. If, however, I came off that way, I am truely sorry.
;)Quote:
Originally posted by Master of 7s
BLAM!!! Knew I could count on ya CV. Yes God is love, but their are many facets to His personality even the Family doesn't understand.
Nah, don't take it that way. There are more important verses in the Bible than those I quoted. ;)Quote:
*sigh*
I need to bone up on my Old Testament.:sweat:
Reverend, not Pastor. I don't have my own church. Besides, I've been kicking around the idea of Catholicism and commiting to the Catholic church; if I did, my "ordination" would be null and void.Quote:
Glad you're a pastor and not me.
You probably believe that because you were taught it. I was taught that as well, but upon closer examination found I was mislead. ;)Quote:
Hm..I always thought it was two separate judgements. One for the believers in Christ before the Millenial Kingdom and one for the unrighteous after the casting down of satan and the destruction of the deceived nations. Need to reread that.
So...the "dead in Christ" shall rise first, eh? But wait, doesn't the Bible say that the believers are alive in Christ, making those "dead in Christ" out to be the non-believers? And to put this into context, doesn't the Bible also say that the chaff is gathered first to be burned, not the wheat? That's what I was talking about when I said "be careful before you commit." ;)Quote:
C'mon bro, gimme some credit.;) The Bible speaks in Thesselonians of the trump of the archangel that shall sound whereby the dead in Christ shall rise first then those of us who live shall be caught up with them to meet our Lord in the clouds. Afterwards we shall receive our celestial bodies and return to earth with the Lord at His Second Coming seven years later.
The word "Rapture" is never used anywhere outside of the US. It's a US Protestant deal. One to lend comfort to those who fear the "Great Tribulation." Truth is, Revelation fortells of a great martyrdom, and the revenging of the martyrd by Christ. Revelation also fortells of the beheading of Christians. If there is a "Rapture," there would not be any other Christians around to be killed. ;)Quote:
The word Rapture is never used anywhere in the Bible.
Will do, so long as you do the same for me. ;)Quote:
Hey dammit, if I'm coming off wrong at any time you'd better correct me. ;)
Am I the only one that thinks someone ought to start The Official Christian Debate Thread? Or better, The Official Religious Debate Thread. I'd do it myself but I've really got nothing to add to it besides a title.
James
james whats its matter? Anyone who's read this thread closely surely has picted up on the strong argument for predestination. So the act of discussing all of this is sort of pointless. Someone should lock this thing.
I missed this bit on my first read through. I still don't get how this happened.:confused:Quote:
Originally posted by rezo
Since the christian trekkies became jealous of the UK's recognition of Jedi as a religion on the census.