Well said.Quote:
Originally posted by StriderKyo
Don't blame religion, blame those who use it for their own ends, and those who are so blinded by their own ego and fear that they're willing to follow them.
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Well said.Quote:
Originally posted by StriderKyo
Don't blame religion, blame those who use it for their own ends, and those who are so blinded by their own ego and fear that they're willing to follow them.
How about this; Religion has caused more deaths than everything else, combined! Is that better ;)Quote:
Originally posted by diffusionx
Ill just say that one of my most hated things is idiots who post meaningless stupid shit like "organized religion has killed more than videogames ever did!" or crap like that. I mean, organized religion has been around longer.
Better if you're trying to appease diffx, but not if you're goal was to state facts.Quote:
Originally posted by Mr_Furious
How about this; Religion has caused more deaths than everything else, combined! Is that better ;)
furiious, not to ressurect this thread, but you really want to say that religion has killed more people than nationalism? Or financial greed?
Now it is.Quote:
Originally posted by Mr_Furious
How about this; Ignorant/greedy/selfish/power hungry/generally evil people, sometimes falsely in the name of religion, have caused more deaths than everything else, combined! Is that better ;)
Gon
Thats not really true. Christianity, as I see it, simply gives you a guide. It's a good guide. Don't murder. Don't cheat. Don't steal. Don't lie. What's the problem with telling someone to do these things? The Bible tells you not to be violent... again I dont see the problem here. The Bible tells you not to be selfish, and to give unto yourself. Again, I dont see a problem here. If less people were selfish pricks the world would be a much better place.Quote:
Originally posted by Dolemite
Good point, but that's not always true. I think one can be moral without the threat of a holy boogeyman hanging over your shoulder. The way Religion usually works is: be good or face eternal damnination. You're not really given a choice in the matter. To be sure, non-belief does NOT makes everything OK, in my view. I think it's more impressive to make the right choice without the religious prodding.
IANAP, but as I see it, once you accept Jesus as the Lord and Savior in your life, you can pretty much do anything you want. However, its advisable to be a good Christian - not because Jesus orders you to, but because being a good Christian is being a good person. And who doesn't want to be a good person? Plus, when you are a good person, good things tend to happen to you.
Plus, the Bible tells you a lot of things that can give you strength - that Christ is in you, that God will be there for you, etc. It's not so that you can be a lazy fuck and lounge around the house all day and just say "God'll take care of me", its to tell you that if you work hard and put your trust in the world at large and in God, good things will happen for you.
Sure, you don't need the Bible for all of this, but hey, you don't need a car to get from here to there, and you don't need a big-screen TV to watch Joe Millionaire 2. Just like a TV and a car may make your life just a little bit better, so can the Bible.
The Bible, for me, just acts as a good framework for how I should conduct my life. Do I believe everything in it is true? Hell no. Do I believe it's the end-all/be-all? No, not really. However, the Bible works, and its worked for me far better than all those fucking self-help people and "Chicken Soup for the Soul" and other bullshit. There have been times when I've been really down or whatever, and Ive opened up the Bible and read a passage and was like "damn, that's so true" and it just made me feel better for a little while. Pretty good stuff. It just seems to apply to my life, like maybe listening to a good song when you're down or watching a movie or whatever.
Plus, the Bible is a great read, for the most part. There are some awesome stories in there. Even if you're not religious there is much to take from the Bible, and many stories are brilliant allegories on life. Revelations is some mind-blowing shit.
Jesse Venture is a dumbass. You do realize that he was calling many who undoubtedly voted for him "weak-minded", right? I guess he has the right to say whatever he wants, and I know he's not a politician by trade, but really this is not about kissing the citizens' collective ass - its about having a fucking brain inside your head and giving the people who supported you some goddamn respect.Quote:
Former pro wrestler. And yeah, that comment DID cause Ventura some backlash, but people who speak their minds and tell it like it is always have to face that sort of thing. Being in a public office as he was, it either took balls the size of grapefruits or an extreme lack of foresight to say that in a national magazine (Playboy). But I respect the hell out of him for saying it. Perhaps the quote IS a tad harsh, but I agree with the gist of it.
That's all true, and those are good rules that anyone should follow. However, you need to go beyond the surface of Christianity to all the other little rules that have peverted a once great religion. How about the Seven Deadly Sins? What, now it's a sin to feel pride, or vanity? Wanna jerk off? That's a sin, according to Christianity. Wanna wear a condom and pratice safe sex? That's a sin, you shouldn't be fucking unless you're married and only then to procreate. And for all you homos out there, being gay's a sin too. I bet most of them are good people otherwise, but they're going to hell for choosing teh dick.Quote:
Originally posted by diffusionx
Thats not really true. Christianity, as I see it, simply gives you a guide. It's a good guide. Don't murder. Don't cheat. Don't steal. Don't lie. What's the problem with telling someone to do these things? The Bible tells you not to be violent... again I dont see the problem here. The Bible tells you not to be selfish, and to give unto yourself. Again, I dont see a problem here. If less people were selfish pricks the world would be a much better place.
Plus, they make their preists be celebate, which is COMPLETELY unnatural and is what leads to many of them becoming sick perverts that molest children. Christianity has a good foundation but needs to get its head out of its ass. It really pisses me off. I think I'm a much better judge of what's right or wrong than some invisible ghost that no one's ever seen.
Besides, I've never spent billions in donated money paying off the families of molested children to be quiet...
I'll agree with that, I've read most of it (I refuse to bash anything without knowing what it's all about first) and some of it is indeed brilliantly written.Quote:
Plus, the Bible is a great read, for the most part. There are some awesome stories in there. Even if you're not religious there is much to take from the Bible, and many stories are brilliant allegories on life. Revelations is some mind-blowing shit.
I sure do. I bet they really liked being called that, too. I respect what he said as a human being, but as a politician that was a completely retarded move.Quote:
Jesse Venture is a dumbass. You do realize that he was calling many who undoubtedly voted for him "weak-minded", right?
A very well spoken post to my thoughts. Very well said indeed.Quote:
Originally posted by StriderKyo Don't blame religion, blame those who use it for their own ends, and those who are so blinded by their own ego and fear that they're willing to follow them.
Dole, i wanted to jump in on some things you said about the seven deadly sins, because i think you are missing some things. First, they are not,themselves, sins, but states that lead people to greater sins, so they could be called 7 dangerous predispositions. look at it, you mentioned pride, and i say i agree that pride is bad, pride undelies nationalism,and raceism, and class conflict. So long as a person elevates themselves by pride, they feel less remorse hurting the non-elevated,so i say pride is the worst aspect of humanity. Similarly,anger, while not a sin,leads to volence,sloth leads to apathy and ignorance of the poor,avarice leads to theivery and physical violence, lust leads to infidelity and objectification of the opposite sex, gluttony leads to the wasting of resources,and the violent stealing of resources from others. So i have to disagree with you, the seven all seem like good ideas to me.
and as for the sex things you mentioned, i am with the church there, sex has been commenrcialized and devalued,the specialness of the act of truly loving one person and one only is something that the brainwashed people out there seem incapable of feeling, but sex is supposed to be special and meaningful, not animalisitc.
and dole,since you had to go there, if celebacy is such a problem in the catholic church,can you explain why the percentage of molesters is the same as in other clergy(non-clelbate) and as among the general populice? That argument is bull, and i get tired of hearing people spouting it off,nothing personal, but it is a very uninformed viewpoint. Where the church went wrong was covering it up,rather than booting the snakes, but as for the numbers,there is no higher percentage than the general populice(source,cnn).
and finally,as for wether you or i are a better judge of right and wrong, i contest that you and i arent. God is objective,we are concerned with self interest, if you make it up as you go along, you invariably allow things that may be harmful to others ,simply because it serves your own self interests.So no,you(or i) are not more qualified to decide right or wrong than an objective being.
oh, and strider definitly hit the nail on the head,good post.
Frostwolf, you and I work great together because we cover so damned many bases in the span of two posts. I will never underappreciate you.
Rock on, man! :D
That said, I have some words for Dole:
You confuse "Christianity" and "Catholicism." Contraception outside of the "timing method" and masturbation, and all of the 7 Most Deadly sins are a Catholic tradition. Even the bit about homosexuality you seem to misunderstand. And even though they are not found as the Catholics believe them in the Bible, the Bible itself commands an adherance to tradition. The Bible isn't enough, as most Protestants would tell you. If you truely want to walk the walk, the Bible and Sacred Tradition are required.Quote:
Originally posted by Dolemite
That's all true, and those are good rules that anyone should follow. However, you need to go beyond the surface of Christianity to all the other little rules that have peverted a once great religion. How about the Seven Deadly Sins? What, now it's a sin to feel pride, or vanity? Wanna jerk off? That's a sin, according to Christianity. Wanna wear a condom and pratice safe sex? That's a sin, you shouldn't be fucking unless you're married and only then to procreate. And for all you homos out there, being gay's a sin too. I bet most of them are good people otherwise, but they're going to hell for choosing teh dick.
What Frostwolf said concerning this matter was more than adiquate, so I'll end it there.
This is grossly inacurate. Any man who has married once can become a priest. If, however, you choose to become a priest prior to marriage, then you are right, you may no longer do so. However, the Catholic church hasn't forced that onto anyone. Those priests knew what they were doing while they were being trained, and they knew full well what they were getting into. The Bible even supports the Catholic view in that Paul can be quoted as saying not to get married, that you can concentrate on God, and Him alone.Quote:
Plus, they make their preists be celebate, which is COMPLETELY unnatural and is what leads to many of them becoming sick perverts that molest children.
Really? And without some kind of model or schematic, how, exactly, do you know right from wrong? I know beyond the shadow of any doubt that you, in fact, do, but how did you come into this knowledge?Quote:
Christianity has a good foundation but needs to get its head out of its ass. It really pisses me off. I think I'm a much better judge of what's right or wrong than some invisible ghost that no one's ever seen.
Neither did they. People who had called themselves Catholic did, but not the church itself.Quote:
Besides, I've never spent billions in donated money paying off the families of molested children to be quiet...