Bangai-O

I've been wanting to pick up Bangai-O for the DC for a while. Yesterday I was in EB and found a mint-condition copy for only $7.99 (every other time I've looked it's been $30-$40), not a sctratch on the disc or manual (though there were 1,000,000 'used' stickers all over the case, but that's easily replaced). Anyway, so far I've gotten up to level 4 and have come to the conclusion that this game kicks the booty in a big way. I don't think I've ever seen so much crap flying around on-screen in my life (especially when you time your super-missle attack just right). I'm not a die-hard Treasure worshiper but this game so far is a lot of fun. Who else is a fan of Bangai-O? How long is it, and how does the N64 version compare to it?

It's loooong. Tons of stages, lots of fun to be had.

One of my fave DC games, but I've never had a chance to give the N64 version a go.

Love it, one of the best games I've come across.
Wait until you get to the later stages (25 is a personal favourite), and don't forget to drop by the highscore thread.

bangai-o is great, especially the later levels, where there's so many bullets flying around that you can use the super missle attack every few seconds.

there are many on this board that find the n64 version to be better than the dreamcast one, but i don't understand this. they usually cite the n64 controller as a deciding factor, but there is no analog support in the either version. also, the n64 version's power-up system isn't as good. instead of gaining new bombs by simply blowing stuff up, you have to collect fruit, completely changing the pace of the game. finally, the n64 version doesn't have the english translation, which is a work of art in itself.)

about my only gripe with the game is that it doesn't support the dreamcast's vga box in any way.

edit: clarified.

I think I am the only one who doesn't like this game.... I just can't get into it, I think I cleared 10 to 15 stages but the game never clicked with me.... But heck, that's a great price tho. I have a copy of the Japanese version for DC in mint condition for sale, hehe.

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Originally posted by Kidnemo
It's loooong. Tons of stages, lots of fun to be had.

One of my fave DC games, but I've never had a chance to give the N64 version a go.

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Long? Nah, it's on the short side, imo, with tons of short stages.

But it's one hell of a good time, and one of my fave DC games.

Heh, I just picked one up mint at a GameStop for 7.99 yesterday. Weird.

I played a friends Euro version a while ago and loved every minute of it. My roommate says that the dual stickness of the N64 version makes it alot more intuitive, but I still dig my DC version. The long and short of it seems to be that DC is prettier, while the N64 version had better controls.

So on to the real question...

Homing Bullet or Bound Bullet?

Bound Bullet is what I prefere most of the time. It isn't always as effective as homing, but it just looks so nifty.

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Originally posted by Roufuss
Long? Nah, it's on the short side, imo, with tons of short stages.

But it's one hell of a good time, and one of my fave DC games.

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Compared to most shooters?

Very long imho.

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Originally posted by Kidnemo
Compared to most shooters?

Very long imho.

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Well... yea. I'm gonna go ahead and say you're right ;)

edit: no, wait, that depends. Do you mean a shooter as in Radiant Silvergun, or a shooter as in, say, Contra? I put Bangai-O in the latter category, and it is quite short then because it's a bit easy.

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Originally posted by EightBit
Homing Bullet or Bound Bullet?

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Homing missles in wide open spaces, the reflecting lasers in tight quarters.

I've noticed that, in addition to firing with the DC's face buttons, you can also fire in any direction using the analog stick. However, this would be a pain in the ass to do since you have to control Bangai-O's movement with the D-pad directly below the analog stick on the DC pad. What's the point, then?

For the Analog + Dpad format, you turn the controller sideways and it becomes a little easier. Your super shot goes to a trigger for the pinky of your choice to unleash massive devstation. Thats how I prefere it anyway.

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Originally posted by Roufuss
edit: no, wait, that depends. Do you mean a shooter as in Radiant Silvergun, or a shooter as in, say, Contra? I put Bangai-O in the latter category, and it is quite short then because it's a bit easy.

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Eh...no, you're wrong. Let's say it takes five minutes (and that's only possible when you're not playing for score and you know the layout of the levels really well) for each of the game's forty-four levels. 5 X 44 = Over 3 hours, long for any shooter and action/platformer. And then, throw in playthroughs for score, replaying after deaths, and trying to unlock the allegorical subtextures of the poetic script, and what you have here is major bang for eight dollars.

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Originally posted by Dolemite
I've noticed that, in addition to firing with the DC's face buttons, you can also fire in any direction using the analog stick. However, this would be a pain in the ass to do since you have to control Bangai-O's movement with the D-pad directly below the analog stick on the DC pad. What's the point, then?

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That's the point of the N64 version being "better".

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Originally posted by EightBit
For the Analog + Dpad format, you turn the controller sideways and it becomes a little easier. Your super shot goes to a trigger for the pinky of your choice to unleash massive devstation. Thats how I prefere it anyway.

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That sounds like a pretty dumb idea. I mean, then the D-pad is turned 45 degrees to the right, so up is now left, right is up, down is right, and left is down.

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Originally posted by Core Boy
That's the point of the N64 version being "better".

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Better in the control department, you mean...how were the controls set-up on the N64 controller?

Gee, had no idea you were a Bangai-O fan, Core Boy... ;)

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Originally posted by Dolemite
how were the controls set-up on the N64 controller?

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d-pad = movement
analog stick = 8-way fire

you could also use the yellow buttons to fire, which would mimic the dreamcast's control scheme.

Eight bucks is a great price, I don't regret paying $15-$20 when it came out, even though the game does get stale and repetitive. I stopped playing somewhere around level 25-30, or so, it just started to bore me. Oh yeah, I found the little dialouge scenes to be painfully stupid.

"WE WERE BORN IN THE PLANE AND WE WILL DIE IN THE PLANE!"


Haw haw, what a shitty translation!
Pfft.

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Originally posted by Sqoon
Eh...no, you're wrong. Let's say it takes five minutes (and that's only possible when you're not playing for score and you know the layout of the levels really well) for each of the game's forty-four levels. 5 X 44 = Over 3 hours, long for any shooter and action/platformer. And then, throw in playthroughs for score, replaying after deaths, and trying to unlock the allegorical subtextures of the poetic script, and what you have here is major bang for eight dollars.

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Yea, but I'm not counting price into this, because I think I paid 40 for mine when it was brand new, and I still thought it was great for that price. Price is irrevalent in this discussion.

The thing is, the game wasn't too difficult, imo, so I didn't find myself playing through any of the levels more than two or three times on my initial run through. Take a game like Contra: Shattered Soldier for existence, that takes a couple of playthroughs to even finish the game, and then even more for better scores to unlock MORE levels, and I'd say it's a much longer game. The scoring in Contra is essential to open the later levels, and it will take quite a while for the average player to start making A's, thus meaning more playtime.

This is disregarding additional playthroughs for "fun score" (i.e trying to top your high score once you've beaten the game), and additional replay after the ENTIRE game is beaten. Because, like I said earlier, Contra: SS will be replayed often to get A's just to advance to the later levels to finish the game, the score is essential. This is just counting the initial playthrough's to even beat the game. But the argument could be made that Contra:SS forces players to play through the same levels every time they play, while Bangai-O saves your progess, so Contra:SS forces replay value down your throat.

Don't get me wrong, if Bangai-O was a bit harder, I would have definately have agreed with you. But as it is, I beat it the day after I got it, with not much trouble. More levels dosen't necessarily mean longer play time, imo though.

This whole thing is in my opinion, and I typed it very fast will watching things outside, so don't anybody jump down my throat or yell because it dosen't make the best of sense. This is all my opinion, remember.

That being said, I still love Bangai-O, one of the best games for the DC.

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Originally posted by Dolemite
That sounds like a pretty dumb idea. I mean, then the D-pad is turned 45 degrees to the right, so up is now left, right is up, down is right, and left is down.

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Meh.. works for me.

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Originally posted by Dolemite
Homing missles in wide open spaces, the reflecting lasers in tight quarters.

I've noticed that, in addition to firing with the DC's face buttons, you can also fire in any direction using the analog stick. However, this would be a pain in the ass to do since you have to control Bangai-O's movement with the D-pad directly below the analog stick on the DC pad. What's the point, then?

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Well, in the N64 version you had 4 options of controls, and that was one of them..

Taken from CJayC's FAQ..

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Method        3D Stick Set  Move  Shoot  Special  Switch
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Left Side    Shooting      D-Pad  3D      Z        L
Right Side    Move          3D    CX4    R        Z
Digital Only  Either        D-Pad  CX4    R        L
Uncomplicated Either        D + A  B      R        L

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As for your question about the differences between the N64 and DC, I would say there are 5 BIG differences, but A LOT of small ones too.

1. Graphic Upgrade...big time. Bangaioh himself looks a lot cooler, let me just link you to a couple screenshots. Lots of Slow Down was fixed as well. You'll also see in the screens that Bangioh's life bar in the N64 is cut up into 10 sections.

First level

Fighting

2. There is also a "Combo Service Station" , Taken from CJayC's FAQ again..

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When you destroy 100 or more enemies with a single shot, special shot, or while invincible, a combo meter will pop up behind your robot and display a counter. Once your combo stops, a yellow vortex will appear where your character is. Enter this vortex to power up your robot thanks to Level no Okan. You will be presented with several options, depending on how large your combo was. You can power up "n" levels, where "n" is your combo size divided by 100 (rounded down).

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The options are..

Shot Damage n-up
Shot Penetration n-up
Life n-up
V (only if you get 500+ combo)
Points (n x 10000)

3. Instead of just pressing a button to unleash the Special Shot, you have to power it up. Special Shots take up 50 Special Points (get to Special Points next). Just hitting the button like the DC version will only release 20 bullets. If you hold the button down though, it will charge up to 100 shots (there is a little counter above your head). Now if extra bullets get near you like the DC version, then you will shoot even more. But if you only have 20 charged up, it still won't be very many. Note that during this entire time you can't move. Charging to 100 doesn't take forever (just a second or two), but it is very different because you have to time your Special Shot ahead of the bullets unlike the DC version.

4. In the DC version you just have 5 levels of Special Shots, giving you 5 shots. In the N64 version you can get up to 500 Points, each Special Shot taking up 50 points. So you can actually shoot more Special Shots in the N64 version (10 in all), but there is a catch. Like previously stated, to get your Special Points back, instead of just blowing shit up, you need to collect Fruit! This makes fruit much more important, because I know when I played the Dreamcast version, fruit was just a way to show me how much I just owned everyone in the room!

5. Mami only does 80% of Riki's damage. Not only that, but her shots will first bounce of a wall ONCE, and THEN home in on enemies.

Those are the main changes that really make the N64 version different. But take a look at CJayC's DC FAQ for a lot more (this isn't a complete list, because I know a found some more myself.)


Oh, and by far the best two quotes in the DC version are,

Riki:
The beautiful world of 2D! The tension is getting good! Three
cheers for Bangai-o!

Miss W:
I'll pulverise you with my ultimate weapon The End of Treasure!

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Originally posted by epmode
d-pad = movement
analog stick = 8-way fire

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Now that sounds nice. One of the few good uses of the N64's goofy controller.

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Originally posted by EightBit
Meh.. works for me.

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More power to you, then. :)

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Originally posted by Regus
Eight bucks is a great price, I don't regret paying $15-$20 when it came out

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$15-$20 when it came out? Most places had it for, like, $40, I think.



I assume that this is a typical Treasure game in that there's no saving (except for high scores) and you have to beat the game in one sitting?

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Originally posted by Dolemite
I assume that this is a typical Treasure game in that there's no saving (except for high scores) and you have to beat the game in one sitting?

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Nope, it saves the level that you were on when died, with the option to go back & play any of the previous levels.
I know everyone here is much too hardcore to use cheats but here is something neat to play with for the people here new to bangio. At the name screen, enter your initials as three gopher things. you will open up all of the stages & an edit mode that lets you tweak the ammount of debris, size of debris, the thickness of your lazers & different background options. It is kinda cool to play around with.

JM

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Originally posted by Dolemite

$15-$20 when it came out? Most places had it for, like, $40, I think.

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Yeah, just like Record of Lodoss War, it was only $20 or so at Funco. I'd never would have paid any more than that.

Both versions of the game are great to play, what with the difference in gameplay. The English translation of the game is one of the funniest I've seen. Hats off to Conspiracy for this and Lodoss War. *-neo

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Originally posted by neoalphazero
The English translation of the game is one of the funniest I've seen. Hats off to Conspiracy for this and Lodoss War.

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from what i understand, conspiracy had nothing to do with the bangai-o translation. treasure made a preliminary translation, then sent it to conspiracy as a guide. conspiracy loved it so much that they didn't change a thing.

for a complete script, check gamefaqs.

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Mrs. M:
You'd like 2D-games, wouldn't you?
Riki:
Right!
Riki:
We are prepared to live in the plain and die in the plain.
Mrs. M:
Thus, to the question of the day.
Mrs. M:
Stacked-up missiles Will often pursue you.
Mrs. M:
Although they may look like a single missle, pay careful
attention!
Mrs. M:
Their combined effect is many times worse!
Riki:
Presumably nothing can be done about this, or indeed M.?
Riki:
That's probably down to the 2D-display!
Mrs. M:
True enough!
Riki:
The beautiful world of 2D! The tension is getting good! Three
cheers for Bangai-o!

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One of these days, I'm gonna gut a DC controller and see if I can splice up a controller that plays Bangaioh as bell as the N64 one...

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Originally posted by Valgar
Miss W:
I'll pulverise you with my ultimate weapon The End of Treasure!

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Actualy I think that that Quote was from the end boss using Ms.W as a communication device to trash talk to Riki:bang:

Bangai-O is one of my favourite games of all time. It's just so much fun to play. I also love the zany style. :)

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Originally posted by Gymkata
Actualy I think that that Quote was from the end boss using Ms.W as a communication device to trash talk to Riki:bang:

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I know, I just copy and pasted from the FAQ though.

It'd be a shame that they couldn't combine the best parts of both versions together.

I like the DC's blow-stuff-up power-up system, but don't like the way it plays on the controller. Having it on English is nice too.

I LOVE the N64's control scheme, but the flow-killing collect fruit to power-up gameplay is exceptionally annoying.

Playing the game on DC with an N64 controller would be the ultimate. Wonder if there's a controller converter out there that would allow that? Anyone tried it? :)

I still haven't beaten the last boss. Right when the battle starts he fires a load of missles and I retaliate with my own but he ends up killing me every time.

I love Bangaioh, easily one of my favourite Dreamcast games. It's just so much fun and totally unlike any other shooter. The music is gorgeous also, I think Mode7 had the soundtrack on his website a while back.

Don't see why some people rate the N64 version higher, the DC one is blatently better.

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Originally posted by Sidez
Don't see why some people rate the N64 version higher, the DC one is blatently better.

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Care to explain your reasons why? Have you played both versions?

Sidez, www.mrmonkeyman.com had them up for awhile, I got the soundtrack if you wanna catch me on AIM or #Gamecombos

Great game, easily one of Treasure's better offering. Only real downside is that some of the mid levels get really gimmicky but otherwie the game is a solid 8. One of the DC's many must owns if you dig it.


I like to replay the level with the evil version of the main character as the boss. Mostly because you can just fuck around killing the infinite enemy spawns with a great open area to do so.

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Originally posted by Green
I still haven't beaten the last boss. Right when the battle starts he fires a load of missles and I retaliate with my own but he ends up killing me every time.

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He won't fire the all-around attack untill you do. Get alot of distance between you and the boss, and lob some missiles his way. Double tap to dash away, and then launch your attack right before his, and repeat as neccessary. Make sure he doesn't get your Vs.

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Originally posted by Mr_Furious
Care to explain your reasons why? Have you played both versions?

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I don't need to. The big list of improvements is reason enough.

Bangai-O is one of my favorite games of all time and quite possibly the most flat-out F-U-N I've ever had playing a videogame by myself. It's one of those rare titles up there with a precious few (ICO, Thief Gold, Suikoden II, Saturn Grandia) that I don't just love, I passionately adore. The gameplay makes it an instant classic but it's the dialog that puts it over the top for me. HILARIOUS *and* adorable. I never played the N64 version but I'll trade any potential N64 gameplay advantages for the DC translation any day.

Having to collect fruit to power up (N64 version) as opposed to just blowing up stuff (DC version) sounds annoying...reminds me of the change Working Designs made to the U.S. version of Silhouette Mirage. They upped the costs of all the weapons so you HAD to make sure you cash bashed every single enemy you came across. It slowed down the pace of the game waaay too much.