Fear of idea theft kept Mario 128 out of E3 2003

Nintendo's intention was to reveal the next game in the legendary Mario franchise, Mario 128, at last month's E3 but chose not to at the final minute in fear of other developers stealing ideas from the game, which will apparently be radically different and god-like (for a Mario game and for video games in general).

Speculation abounds as to when the game will be released. It's entirely possible that it can come out this year (since the game was far enough in development to be shown at E3) but a 2004 date is almost definite.

Source: gamesindustry.biz

Doesn't Nintendo always keep things hidden to keep other developers from "stealing ideas"?

Its always sounded like BS to me... like the revolutionary hidden super secret feature of the Gamecube controler. F'n clicky shoulder buttons.

They're just trying to give you an internet boner over something you've never seen, just like how they undership to make you think the game is cooler, and selling better than it actually is.

Unless they include some kind of device that shoots out of the Gamecube and gives me a blowjob each time I beat a level it can't be too "radically different and god-like". It will be more of the same. I guarantee it.

i can see their concern, dantes water pack in dmc 2 was pretty blatent :D

N64 controler was used as an example, so they were hush about the GC. The GC was not as big of deal though.

...I want more mario. and none of this Sunshine crap!

sorry burg.

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Originally posted by 88mph
Doesn't Nintendo always keep things hidden to keep other developers from "stealing ideas"?

Its always sounded like BS to me... like the revolutionary hidden super secret feature of the Gamecube controler. F'n clicky shoulder buttons.

They're just trying to give you an internet boner over something you've never seen, just like how they undership to make you think the game is cooler, and selling better than it actually is.

Unless they include some kind of device that shoots out of the Gamecube and gives me a blowjob each time I beat a level it can't be too "radically different and god-like". It will be more of the same. I guarantee it.

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You definitely have some valid points but I think you are a little off. I agree about the GC controller, who gives a shit about the clicky shoulder buttons? It's not like anyone has put them to use very well. On the other hand when is the last time Miyamoto put alot of effort into one game and it wasn't amazing? Sure they didn't give you the "pop out BJ" but they always are amazing. And unless you secretly work side by side with the dev team I don't know how you can guarantee it.

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Originally posted by bahn
...I want more mario. and none of this Sunshine crap!

sorry burg.

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Agreed. I really like Sunshine but it wasn't half of the game the Mario 64 was.

I don't think 128 is going to blow the doors off like 64 did either. Sunshine's a great game. People who were disappointed in it were disappointed because they were expecting another giant step forward and they'll be disappointed with 128 as well.

As for Nintendo's reason...it sounds like bullshit.

I agree that it won't blow the doors off like Mario 64 did. I wasn't disappointed because Sunshine didn't. I was disappointed because every level was like the same god damn thing. It wasn't even as inventive as the last Mario game, a first for the series. Sunshine was alot of fun, but do you think it was anywhere near as good as Mario 64?

Well, most people who did not like Sunshine were expecting Mario to change the world like in Mario 64. Just because he did it twice (SMB and SM64) doesn't mean that Mario games have to be revolutionary to be good. What the hell did you want Sunshine to be? 4D? Blinx (kinda) did the 4D thing and didn't change the world either.

The only thing that will match expectations set by SMB and SM64 would be holographic graphics, and I doubt that'll happen...

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Originally posted by Nigel-The-Landstalker
I agree that it won't blow the doors off like Mario 64 did. I wasn't disappointed because Sunshine didn't. I was disappointed because every level was like the same god damn thing. It wasn't even as inventive as the last Mario game, a first for the series. Sunshine was alot of fun, but do you think it was anywhere near as good as Mario 64?

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Every level was "like the same god damn thing" because the game was based on a tropical island. Like tropical islands, Sunshine had the central city, the country side, the beach, the port, the bay, the natives' village, the resort, and the amusement park, which I thought was really nice. Also like tropical islands, it did not have the jungle level, the snow level, the desert level, the cave level, and the mountain level. Instead of playing to the steroetypical platform mold, Nintendo chose a theme which I personally really enjoyed.

why would anyone want to overhype a game these days? All it does is get people worked up, and then pissy because then game didn't live up to the unrealistic hype. Or you get the people who crap all over a game before its even out (or before a single screen is shown) as a preemptive to the 'hype machine.' Either way building interest for a game in 2003 is a lose-lose situation.

It's bullshit. I'm just not sure regarding what.

Bullshit that there's actually a game to show is possible in my opinion. Sorta a "The Check is In The Mail" deal.

It could be bullshit in a paranoia way.

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Originally posted by Hero
why would anyone want to overhype a game these days? All it does is get people worked up, and then pissy because then game didn't live up to the unrealistic hype. Or you get the people who crap all over a game before its even out (or before a single screen is shown) as a preemptive to the 'hype machine.' Either way building interest for a game in 2003 is a lose-lose situation.

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Publishers don't care if people bitch. They only care that the game sells.

Aye, but if you piss off people enough, you get sales out of one game, and a grudge the next time one of your games releases. Maybe I'm naive to the business side of games, but I rather 'have them coming back for more' because that would give better sales overall, in the long run.

Super Mario 64 was a revolutionary step in 3D game design.

However, if you judge each of them only on the merits of their gameplay Super Mario Sunshine is definitely the better game.

I didn't like Sunshine because I found it tedious and just not fun, and while I didn't love Mario 64, I definitely had some fun with it. I didn't expect any leaps or bounds (in the evolution sense), but I did expect to actually enjoy it, which did not happen.

The only thing I can say about Mario 128 is wait and see since there's nothing to actually see yet.

You can do almost everything you can do in Mario 64 in Sunshine. The novelty of the 3D Mario was the big leap and newness for Mario 64.

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Originally posted by Andrew
You can do almost everything you can do in Mario 64 in Sunshine. The novelty of the 3D Mario was the big leap and newness for Mario 64.

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Totally. I remember when I first got Mario 64, I had so much fun hovering, using my turbo dash, squirting enemies, and riding Yoshi. Those were the days.

Nintendo can be accused of overhyping a bit. I remember several interviews where questions were asked about different functions of the waterpack and meet with the answer of "a pleasant surprise" or a grin. The thing doubled as a jetpack and rocket boost....weee. *-neo

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Originally posted by Andrew
You can do almost everything you can do in Mario 64 in Sunshine. The novelty of the 3D Mario was the big leap and newness for Mario 64.

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I can't play in a fucking Snow Level, now can I?

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Originally posted by burgundy
Every level was "like the same god damn thing" because the game was based on a tropical island. Like tropical islands, Sunshine had the central city, the country side, the beach, the port, the bay, the natives' village, the resort, and the amusement park, which I thought was really nice. Also like tropical islands, it did not have the jungle level, the snow level, the desert level, the cave level, and the mountain level. Instead of playing to the steroetypical platform mold, Nintendo chose a theme which I personally really enjoyed.

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I must applaud the designers on how much diversity in gameplay they were able to come up with using the island theme. I liked Sunshine alot even if it kind of stumbled a bit at the end becoming a bit too tedious and overly challenging. To me anyways.

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Originally posted bu Omnigear
I can't play in a fucking Snow Level, now can I?

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Well we have that wonderful Metroid Prime Phendrana drifts snow level. Plus you'll get your fucking snow level in 128.

As for Nintendo's no show of Mario 128, its the same bull they always spew. I doubt it was even ready to show.

Hmmm...

I thought Sunshine was an awesome game. The tropical theme was awesome and well achieved.

I'm looking foward to Mario 128...though it sure does sound like marketing hype.

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Originally posted by Hero
Aye, but if you piss off people enough, you get sales out of one game, and a grudge the next time one of your games releases. Maybe I'm naive to the business side of games, but I rather 'have them coming back for more' because that would give better sales overall, in the long run.

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TNL does not reflect reality.

The main reasons Mario didn't sell better are "Cube is gay," "That waterpack is gay," and "Dude, Madden and GTA are hot, yo."

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Originally posted by burgundy
TNL does not reflect reality.

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that needs to be on a shirt

Tell that to Kenshin.

he doesn't acknowledge me ;)

OMG teh Drama!

word.

Hey, like I said before. I really, really liked Sunshine alot. To me it's easily the 2nd best 3D platformer ever. I also understand that they went with a theme. It just didn't seem that the individual missions were anywhere near as creative. I think if you put the 2 games side by side and single out the missions you will see that M64 easily owns Sunshine. Not because of the theme, but because they were much more creative.

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Originally posted by Will
Well we have that wonderful Metroid Prime Phendrana drifts snow level. Plus you'll get your fucking snow level in 128.

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So Nintendo only has to worry about one snow level per year?

I don't care that much about snow levels, but that just struck me as funny. :p

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Originally posted by burgundy
TNL does not reflect reality.

The main reasons Mario didn't sell better are "Cube is gay," "That waterpack is gay," and "Dude, Madden and GTA are hot, yo."

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Aye, but remember, it's the TNL mentality that continues to keep developers like SNK and Sega alive. So in that sense, if you have the main presumption of 'Nintendo = gay' under the mainstream, you wouldn't want to undercut yourself by pissing off the niche.

Maybe SNK and Sega suck, and the mainstream has really been right about everything.

Or maybe the video game industry has been scripted.

Wow...spooky...

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Originally posted by Zerodash
Well, most people who did not like Sunshine were expecting Mario to change the world like in Mario 64. Just because he did it twice (SMB and SM64) doesn't mean that Mario games have to be revolutionary to be good. What the hell did you want Sunshine to be? 4D? Blinx (kinda) did the 4D thing and didn't change the world either.

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4....D?

Do explain.

The first dimention is a line existing on the X-axis.
The second dimention is any given flat geometric shape, I.E. adding the Y-axis, but without a Z-axis.
The third dimention adds the Z-axis.
The fourth dimention is a tesseract, or "hypercube." I.E. adding the W-axis.
The fifth dimention is time.

So Blinx dabbled in non-Euclidian geometry?

I may have to check that out. ;)

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Originally posted by OmniGear
So Blinx dabbled in non-Euclidian geometry?

I may have to check that out. ;)

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Yes. I guess so. ;)

Why everyone always confuses a tesseract (4D) with time (5D) I'll never know.

Blame Chrono Cross.

But why isn't the fifth dimension simply a tesseract within a tesseract?

/me just realized that all of this is way above his head and now he feels stupid and sad :(

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Originally posted by burgundy
But why isn't the fifth dimension simply a tesseract within a tesseract?

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because that would just be down right silly

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Originally posted by Shin Johnpv
because that would just be down right silly

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Indeed. ;)

Good post Captain Vegetable.

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Originally posted by 88mph
Good post Captain Vegetable.

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I agree with 88.

People overhype themselves more often than not. "Mario 64 was pure gold, this game must be Pure gold and naked ladies!" Half the reason MM64 is legendary because it was the first game to really make people believe in 3D gaming if you ask me, plus the game kicks ass. Sure it was not the first 3D game but it still to this day is the most innovative 3D game ever. Mario Sunshine was just another 3D mario, it was not going to do what MM64 did, it was not really possiable. Sunshine is a damn fine game and I loved it, my only gripe was that getting all the Blue coins gave basicaly nothing for an reward. And the Island theme was great, and it made loads of sense. I am suprised people complain about this when in thousands of other games do the exact same thing. Last time I checked Metal Gear Solid did not have an Air level, Jungle Level, Lava Level, or even a Sunny Green Grass level!

If it were up to me Nintendo would not show a single thing about the new Mario game till a week before it comes out. I say keep their secrets, whatever they maybe. I would also say other companys should do the same. Maybe that way more original stuff can come out rather than trying to get a copy of the same type of game by the time the first gets out. Sunshine may not be the best example but its happand with plenty of other genres.

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Originally posted by Clash_Master
Last time I checked Metal Gear Solid did not have an Air level, Jungle Level, Lava Level, or even a Sunny Green Grass level!

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It also doesn't have a gay backpack.

Are all backpacks gay, or just ones that hold water?

Usually just the ones that hold water.

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Originally posted by 88mph
Good post Captain Vegetable.

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Originally posted by Shin Johnpv
I agree with 88.

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Thanks, guys. :)

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Originally posted by Clash_Master
Last time I checked Metal Gear Solid did not have an Air level, Jungle Level, Lava Level, or even a Sunny Green Grass level!

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But we haven't come to expect these things from the Metal Gear series.

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Originally posted by Captain Vegetable
But we haven't come to expect these things from the Metal Gear series.

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Indeed.

That was quite the stupid point there, Clash.

It was pretty good up until the whole Metal Gear thing.

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Originally posted by 88mph
It was pretty good up until the whole Metal Gear thing.

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I agree.

And don't get me wrong, I like change. I wasn't downing the fact that Mario underwent a change. I was, however, speaking to the effect that the change was more regression than progression, which is bad.

Well yeah, everything besides the Metal Gear comment stands.

But when a game that relies heavily on level design screws up in that department, it's gonna have a big impact on the game.

Those levels could have been as big as they wanted, but when each one doesn't feel different from the next, there's a problem.

I applaud Miyamoto for trying something new with the series, but I don't think having a "theme" was such a brilliant idea.

All I was saying that Sunshine was located in one area with things that go with that particular area. Maybe the Metal Gear comment was poor, but... meh whatever. I was just saying that they kept to a theme instead of just making up crazy levels just becuase they could use the excuse, "Its a crazy video game world!"

"I just do not know if I am going to make a so-called Mario 128. I actually kind of expected some reaction from the audience, but now that I have seen the strong reaction? It would take one year to complete Mario 128 or any project of that sort."

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Originally Posted by burgundy

I don't think 128 is going to blow the doors off like 64 did either.

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The only thing Mario 64 blew the door off of was a big container of poop........that had doors holding the poop in.....or something. Gah. I just didn't like that game. Sunshine was much better.

Oh well. Here's to hoping that the secret idea that Nindendo doesn't want stolen is tied in to that Mario 2.5D rumor in that thread in the games board. A 2.5D Mario would rock.

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Originally Posted by Shin Johnpv

I agree with 88.

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Excellent point Shin Johnpv.

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Originally Posted by Captain Vegetable

The first dimention is a line existing on the X-axis.
The second dimention is any given flat geometric shape, I.E. adding the Y-axis, but without a Z-axis.
The third dimention adds the Z-axis.
The fourth dimention is a tesseract, or "hypercube." I.E. adding the W-axis.
The fifth dimention is time.

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Dimensionality is grossly misunderstoood by 99.99999% of people. There is actually an infinite amount of dimensions. It's all a matter of how many dimensions are needed to portray a bit of information. For a vector, we need two or three. A surface, three (and a map that goes from a two dimensional area to said surface, so really its closer to five dimensions). It takes only a simple thought experiment to see that everything we can observe can be represented in terms of X, Y, Z, and T. So thus the existence that we inhabit is 4D, but there is an infinite number of dimensions beyond that.