Chaos! Fighting games that seriously have let you down...

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30 Jul 2003, 01:42 AM
Taito

Quote:

Originally Posted by conrooks

Yikes!! Why no love for SS4?!? I thought it was MUCH better than 3 and quite comparable to 2

I dunno, I'm just among the minority of SS fans who loved part 3 and hated part 4 with a passion. I suppose part 4 plays better than 3 (I still wasn't impressed with the 4's play engine at all), but I feel the hate surrounding 3's gameplay is overblown. I like SS3's combo system and dash attacks, which were rearranged for the worse or just removed altogether in part 4. I wasn't thilled about the absence of popular characters like Charlotte, etc. but I still enjoyed the more serious, brutal and 'Japanese' tone SS3 introdcued to the series.

What I don't understand at all is how most fans dont think SS's aesthetics, artwork and personality took a major hit in SS4. SS3's style and artwork was just excellent (only problem was the sparse acivity in most of the backgrounds; Haoh, Genjuro, Rimururu and Kuroko's stages in SS3 were awesome though). Meanwhile, everything that was cool and stylish about SS just went out the window in part 4, which seems to bother me more about that game than anything else.

SS4 "comparable to 2"??? Couldn't possibly disagree more. Nothing in SS4 was done quite as well as in SS2 imo.
30 Jul 2003, 03:35 AM
Adrian

Quote:

Originally Posted by neoalphazero

Jojo's Adventure- Interesting ideas, great characters, just too simple and a bit short on moves. If the PS2 sequel ever hits the US I'd like to see if the gameplay evolved.

You couldn't be more wrong, Jojo is still played a lot here and the stuff these players can do amazes me. In no way is it 'simple'. Its' popularity way exceeds any Neo Geo fighter (except KOF2002 and SVC).
30 Jul 2003, 04:03 AM
Taito

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sidez

You couldn't be more wrong, Jojo is still played a lot here and the stuff these players can do amazes me. In no way is it 'simple'. Its' popularity way exceeds any Neo Geo fighter (except KOF2002 and SVC).

That's not that particularly bold of a claim, there aren't really any popular Neo fighters aside from KoF and I suppose SvC (Mark of the Wolves attracted crowds when it was still new, but other than that . . .).
30 Jul 2003, 04:22 AM
Adrian

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taito

That's not that particularly bold of a claim, there aren't really any popular Neo fighters aside from KoF and I suppose SvC (Mark of the Wolves attracted crowds when it was still new, but other than that . . .).

Yep just putting into perspective though, a fringe Capcom fighter beats out all other SNK produce.
30 Jul 2003, 04:37 AM
Taito

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sidez

Yep just putting into perspective though, a fringe Capcom fighter beats out all other SNK produce.

. . . Except KoF.
30 Jul 2003, 04:42 AM
StriderKyo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sidez

Parrying in SF3 is not difficult and it's a progressive thing. You go from just doing projectiles, then jump-ins, sweeps, doing fake jump-ins then parrying their AA etc. You add elements to your game bit by bit, you can't expect to master them all at once. I find it easy because I broke it down, this is the correct approach to ANY fighter.

That's not really 'easy', that took you a bunch of practice. Parrying consistently, unless just done in situations that clearly warrant it like the 3 you named above (I'll leave out sweeps, since those are rarely predictable except against a crappy opponent - heck, even parrying AAs has to be a reaction move, not a prediction), takes very quick reactions and an intimate knowledge of the game's animations and your opponent's tendencies. Consistent parrying is always the mark of a really good SF3 player, and it's hardly common enough to call it easy, given that it has a 1/10th of a second 6-frame input and all.

Quote:

If you fail to do the dodge then it's your fault!. You dodge when you anticipate your oppenant doing a move in order to gain a massive frame advantage. Obviously it's not going to be "100% guarenteed everytime", because some moves track and if you anticipate wrongly, it's a free throw for the other guy or simply you get hit.

I'm not talking about getting hit, I'm talking about performing it in the first place. VF3 had a perfectly simple way to do it, but Suzuki obviously dumped in zenlike pursuit of as sparse an interface as possible.

I suppose the rationale being that it would allow for quicker response since your hand is always on the stick anyway, but in my opinion it just made the simplest of physical movements more demanding than it should be. Anybody on earth can step sideways, and there's no reason to make it as stringent as 0.25 seconds or whatever the input window is. It just makes no sense.

Quote:

Very few moves track, stop blaming the game because of your own incompetance. Really pathetic.

I think somebody needs a pocky.
30 Jul 2003, 04:45 AM
ChaoofNee

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeremy

Holy shit, I can't believe I forgot to mention Soul Calibur yet. I loved Soul Blade, and was disappointed beyond belief when I played SC. The graphics may have been nice, but for me, the unbalance gameplay killed it.

Actually, I think the opposite. Soul Calibur was a step up in everything except for music, in my opinion. Soul Blade had an amazing soundtrack (Bravely Folk Song and Future Dancin' come to mind), but Soul Calibur's was just so... mediocre. Bleh.
30 Jul 2003, 09:16 AM
Captain Canuck

Quote:

I'm not talking about getting hit, I'm talking about performing it in the first place. VF3 had a perfectly simple way to do it, but Suzuki obviously dumped in zenlike pursuit of as sparse an interface as possible.

I suppose the rationale being that it would allow for quicker response since your hand is always on the stick anyway, but in my opinion it just made the simplest of physical movements more demanding than it should be. Anybody on earth can step sideways, and there's no reason to make it as stringent as 0.25 seconds or whatever the input window is. It just makes no sense.

I don't see what the problem is. There's no point in evading if you time it wrong, you'll ge hit either way whether the evade registers or not. If you time the evade in VF4 right, you'll dodge it. It's not like the dodge doesn't come out if you input it correctly at the right time.

Lion and Shun have the type of evades you like anyways. They just require the block button though. There's really no need for a dodge button. It just clutters up the smooth and intuitive VF three button system. Pressing a dodge button to dodge and pressing a block button to dodge doesn't make a difference. It's not like the block button is being to used to block when you evade anyways. So what's the point of having a dodge button? I think Suzuki said something about making it easier for hacks.

Pushing in one direction and letting go is not harder than pressing one direction and a button. I mean come on.

ps. 3 buttons is always better than 4 if all you need is 3. If they ever put a jump,roll, or duck button in a fighter, that would be suicide.
30 Jul 2003, 11:21 AM
StriderKyo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Canuck

I don't see what the problem is. There's no point in evading if you time it wrong, you'll ge hit either way whether the evade registers or not. If you time the evade in VF4 right, you'll dodge it. It's not like the dodge doesn't come out if you input it correctly at the right time.

Lion and Shun have the type of evades you like anyways. They just require the block button though. There's really no need for a dodge button. It just clutters up the smooth and intuitive VF three button system. Pressing a dodge button to dodge and pressing a block button to dodge doesn't make a difference. It's not like the block button is being to used to block when you evade anyways. So what's the point of having a dodge button? I think Suzuki said something about making it easier for hacks.

Pushing in one direction and letting go is not harder than pressing one direction and a button. I mean come on.

ps. 3 buttons is always better than 4 if all you need is 3. If they ever put a jump,roll, or duck button in a fighter, that would be suicide.

Kill me now...

Okay, I think you guys are really misunderstanding me. Here's what I'm not saying:

OMG! Dodging in Virtua Fighter 4 is a super skill maneouvre only true masters can accomplish! I spent 2 years on a mountaintop in Japan trying to master it and I cannot! 2 years! 2 years of my life wasted! I hate Virtua Fighter now and I am going to destroy every VF machine I see!! OMG! OMG!! I hate Yu Suzuki, and I am going to track him down and kill him! I'm sharpening the knife right now!! OMG!!!

Here's what I did say:

Quote:

Originally Posted by StriderKyo

I liked it [the dodge button] as well. It was alot more user friendly than the 0.2 second dodge input VF4 has.

And really, I don't see how you can argue with that.

VF3: Push dodge button at leisure, move sideways.

VF4: Tap down really fast, probably move sideways.
30 Jul 2003, 12:01 PM
Shapermc

This seems to have turned in to a "make people understand what is good about the games they disliked" thread. Hmmmm

Still cant wait to try SvC:Chaos. Backgrounds never mattered to me anyways. [EDIT] Unless they are interactive.

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