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There's no proving an opinion wrong, only calling someone on self-righteousness. Just because you feel that your opinion is the right one, doesn't make anyone else's less valid.
As far as this not being radical change, when the Anglican church both in the UK and Nigeria start talking about breaking ties with the United States church, it's not exactly a minor qualm over bread or wafers (or whatever Episcopalians do).
my opinion about the whole bible's take on marriage is if they allowed man-man and woman-woman marriages, there would be no kids. Now think about that... small little population, you need lots of offspring just to survive. As I recall, oral sex ect is also taboo somewhere in the bible. So really its an old survival thing.
Personally, I dont think it should apply anymore. If two people are in love, then they should be allowed to get married. period. :P
*gets off soapbox*
I personally don't care. God will judge, not me. But a practicing homosexual has no business being bishop of a church. As Captain V posted "MUST be the husband of one wife".
Ain't much room for leeway there.
No, I don't beleive he is practicing. He's openly gay, but not sexually active. I don't understand the problem here. Being gay isn't the sin in Christianity, it's "laying with a man". Everyone's just freaking out anyway, because their all homophobes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikorasu
I'm fully aware of laying with dude part of the problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
Then I'd have no beef with him having some sort of role in the church, but the evidence as laid out by the Veg-monger is clear cut in my opinion.
Perhaps they should create a new role for him. The bender-bishop. If the Bible says he cannot be a Bishop or a Deacon, how can he preach from/have any level of understanding, or even respect it by going against it?
Hey, I didn't think he was practicing at first, either...then I found out he's living with someone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
And again I say, it doesn't matter about pleasing people. You'd (not you, Frog, but all whose opinions apply...which may very well include you) rather please the people around you than the God that created you, and that's why it's OK with you. You're to people-centric. If you're not a Christian, fine, this statement doesn't apply to you, but if you are, how concerned, really, are you about the eternal destination of peoples souls if it's fine with you for this to take place, even though there is ample Biblical instruction against it? The Bible came from God, and as such it is the difining ideal of our beliefs system. To say it's old or irrelavent is like slapping God in the face, saying, "I know You told us to do it this way God, but trust me, I know how to worship You better than You do."
Also, God is unchainging, and He is the Word. If He is unchanging and He is the Word, how is it that you can think the Bible doesn't apply to today's society?! What, you didn't think God knew what was coming and only wrote His book for the ancient world? "There is nothing new under the sun." The same issues happening today were happening all throughout our ancient past. To think this situation is new, and then to say that the Bible doesn't apply because of it is ridiculously short-sighted and arrogant.
The Bible applies as much today as it did 2000 years ago as it will 2000 years from now. Who are you to say it doesn't apply if God Himself says it does?
ShineAqua, I believe you might be stepping into something you're not prepared to step into. When was the Bible ever "wrong." And I'll need unequivocable proof for this alligation, as it's a pretty sizable accusation to just throw out off-the-cuff like that.
Oh, and Frog. We know what the Bible says. If you'd been reading, you'd have discovered that we all agree homosexuality isn't the sin, it's the fornication.
You don't have anything to teach me about the Bible and it's ins and outs. I'm the Christian, ordained at that. Just relax, and enjoy the ride.
EDIT: Meh...I'm getting bored with this. I feel like I'm hurting more than helping. I think I'll just keep my mouth shut for a good, long while.
I get so up on my high horse sometimes. Sorry Shine and Frog. Please, I was being a jerk. Forgive me.
Christianity is about love, not judgement or "correctness." And like I said, I believe God has yet to finish the work in our good bishop. With that I'll simply continue to pray for him.
I really feel bummy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikorasu
You'd have no beef? :lol:
Hell, maybe I'm just tired, but in the context of discussing homosexuality, I suddenly found this rather amusing. I'm going to go be productive now.... maybe...
"This little piggy had roast beef, and this little piggy had none."
That's just the kind of thing I need to cheer me up. :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Dripdry
I wouldn't sweat it too much Capt. I knew where this thread was gonna go from jump street, that's why I kept relatively quiet. People only want to focus on the love and acceptance aspect of God and ignore the holiness and righteousness aspect. Christians who think this way think it makes Christianity more accessable to the masses, but don't realize that all this does is dilute the core message of the Bible which is to live a holy and righteous life through Christ Jesus. Expressions of true love for other human beings is just ONE of many side effects of that come from this kind of living.Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Vegetable
It isn't about getting up on a soap box. It's about standing for what is right and true. God said only righteous and blameless married men with families and could become deacons and bishops and that's the end of it. No room for interpretation, no room for humanistic, flesh-based ideology. No room for any "up with people" garbage. God knew exactly was He was doing when He wrote His Word with all its crazy, outlandish doctrines and you, me and others are better people because of it.
God doesn't need to "get with the times", God IS time. And God definately doesn't need to fall in step with the current trends, it's man who needs to fall in step with God. The will of man does NOT produce God's righteousness on earth. So let the blind lead the blind, Brother, we know the will of our Father in heaven and we know His commandments. The election of this man to bishophood is wrong. It flies directly in the face of God's Word and the church that ordained him is going to suffer because of its disobedience. If he's openly gay, fine, who cares? Put him in some other leadership position, but DO NOT violate God's commandments. This foolish move by the Anglican church has opened a WIDE door for satan and his cronies. Expect to see nothing but problems in this church in a few years. Everything will be hunky-dory at first and everyone will say "See? You narrow-minded Christians were worried over nothing. Look at all the good that's come of this decision." Then their destruction shall come upon then swiftly and suddenly and no one will able to save them. I just hope and pray that people in that church with any sense get out while they can. Wide is the way to destruction and narrow is the path to salvation. If I seem narrow-minded then I am likely on the narrow path.
No church with any common sense would put a fornicating, adulterous, heterosexual, unmarried man with no children into a position of such significance. Why should a sexually active, homosexual, unmarried man with no children be an exception? The short answer is that it shouldn't. End of conversation.
I love you so much, Master. And I'm not misusing that word to convey some sort of gushing happyness or something of that sort. I really, truely, and deeply love you, man.
I can't wait to meet you, whether it be in this life, or around Christ Jesus' throne as we all join hands and lift up praises to our God and King.
Praise God for you and all you've done for me.
I feel much better. :D