Why are old school RPGs held in such high esteem?

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Originally Posted by Andrew

I'd really like to get back to this Final Fantasy thing though. You seem pretty civil, JM, how about you explain to me through this simple scenario what's different about Final Fantasy 3 and X, gameplay wise:

Kill an IMP. What do you have to do with the Final Fantasy X's gameplay.
and
Kill an IMP. What do you have to do with the Final Fantasy X's gameplay.

I think the way you attack them will be similar in the end. (like talk through what you'd do)

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The different things you can do in each game have already been pointed out to you a thousand times.

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Originally Posted by MechDeus

Summons weren't in the first half of the series, and the only thing that's stayed the same is that menus exist. If you think FFVIII plays just like FFVI which plays just like FFI... then you clearly haven't played at least two of those. Whether or not you realize it from screenshots, there's a lot in the tuning of the battle system that changes, especially in the time priority Grandiaish system of FFIX compared to the combo-based nature of FFVII up next to the abusive power-hungry Juctioning of FFVIII (these being just the PS FFs).

Selecting an attack may not change, but the way it's executed does. Shinobi and Gungrave both have buttons for attack and jump, so selecting what to do remains the same but they hardly play alike.

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Wrong, FF2 had Summons.

Here you've simply accused me of not knowing. No example given. Yet you select it the same way. You don't control WHAT happens. You control that it happens. Then you give some vague descriptions but no actual examples from in the game. That is why the IMP scenario and you answering could sum this showdown up in a nutshell. Please prove me wrong by answering that question.

It also varies from the different games.

Look. What it boils down to is this:

Character 1 gets a turn. Chooses to Attack
Character 2 gets a turn. Chooses to use Special Attack (insert fancy name here)
Enemy 1 gets a turn. Chooses to Attack
Character 3 gets a turn. Chooses to use Magic spell (insert spell name here)
Enemy 2 gets a turn. Chooses to Attack
Enemy 3 gets a turn. Chooses to use magic spell (insert spell name here)

That is the same in FF3 as FFX, correct? That's your battle engine for Final Fantasy.

How would making games at home make one an expert on the definition of the word "gameplay"?

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Originally Posted by MechDeus

I'm rather enjoying your constant additions to this post. In any case, that too proves my point as it was answered earlier by someone else.

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No name given? "Somebody else"? If you knew, you could give me a name.

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Originally Posted by Andrew

You don't control WHAT happens. You control that it happens.

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I hope that's a typo of some sort, because even a child can point out the stupidity of it.

Who will answer the question? If not, then you will never shut me up in thie arguement.

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Originally Posted by Andrew

You say you have a point, yet you never state it.

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My point was that they don't play alike. I'm guessing you don't understand the definition of that word either?

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Final Fantasy 3 and X play as two separate games? Well then why didn't you answer my question?

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I did earlier. As for FFX versus FFVI, FFVI is still largely in the "power" state of mind while adding various character-specific attacks. Choosing your party will determine what you're able to do in combat, but selection of Espers can distribute special abilities and careful management of them is the only way to get as strong as possible (just playing straight through it's impossible to do things like reach 9999HP). But even with different techniques for each character the "power" aspect shines through, allowing one to force their way through anything. However, if one doesn't want to force then there are many ways of finding workarounds by exploiting character techniques.

FFX is based more on an RPS technique, with different kinds of attacks (each character specializing in different ones) being the only way to counter types of enemies. They used an in-battle character selection process to help this, which can be further modified by the Sphere Grid and the player's choices therein. There's a method that should be taken and is more obvious, but there's also alternate paths that can change what the character has access to in battle and where they specialize. Rikku isn't good against flying enemies but Wakka dominates there. Tidus isn't good against mechanical enemies but Rikku dominates there. And so on. It's a faster-paced scheme that is about individual application moreso then sheer strength (which will only take you so far in FFX), which even spreads to the boss battles as most of them need to have area-interaction performed on them before they can be hurt or to remove their most powerful attacks.

With the early FFs they were very much alike but that changed massively as they went on. FFV was about customization, FFVI was about character-specific attacks, FFVII was about combos, FFVIII was about Juctioning, FFIX was about timing, and FFX was about RPS. They share a number of things (what with them being the same series and all), but each amplified areas the others didn't and thus each needed to be played differently. Play FFIX like FFVIII and you'll get slaughtered, play FFX like FFIX and you'll get nowhere.

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Originally Posted by Andrew

No name given? "Somebody else"? If you knew, you could give me a name.

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What's funny is this was pointed out earlier in another person's post.

StriderKyo.

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Originally Posted by Andrew

Look. What it boils down to is this:

Character 1 gets a turn. Chooses to Attack
Character 2 gets a turn. Chooses to use Special Attack (insert fancy name here)
Enemy 1 gets a turn. Chooses to Attack
Character 3 gets a turn. Chooses to use Magic spell (insert spell name here)
Enemy 2 gets a turn. Chooses to Attack
Enemy 3 gets a turn. Chooses to use magic spell (insert spell name here)

That is the same in FF3 as FFX, correct? That's your battle engine for Final Fantasy.

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You're forgetting about the whole act of linking Materias in FF7, for example, or junctioning various summons in FF8, or choosing what abilities to learn in FF9. Doing all these things is part of the "gameplay" as well because I, as the player, am doing it.

There's much more to RPGs than just battles.

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Originally Posted by Andrew

Basically, you shouldn't be talking about things you don't know about. You don't know the fundamentals of a simple program like a calculator, yet argue complex video game engines with someone with experience.

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Obviously you can't comprehend the fact that I said I know something about the way games work, I'm making a few. Proving that I have some experience with game engines. Credentials. Of course, Mech Deus has none and thinks he knows it all.

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Mech Deus, JM, Kid Nemo, and whoever else don't have game making experience. How can they tell someone with it that they're wrong? It's like telling a mechanic he doesn't know jack about engines.

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And it would still have been more then any of the people above have accomplished in the industry. That means I have more experience than you. A lot of companies start out as garage companies and most people got their jobs in this industry from hard practical work.

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I know more than you about this because I've done work in the feild. That's how it works Strike. What are your credentials?

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i've been coding gba demos in my spare time, but you won't see me acting like a pompous ass. you're entitled to your opinion, but dismissing someone's argument simply because they haven't cobbled together a few lame game demos is infuriating. either show us this masterpiece of game design, or shut up about it.

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Originally Posted by RoleTroll

How would making games at home make one an expert on the definition of the word "gameplay"?

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Because without other students to show how wrong one can be, they begin to take their own word as gospel. Ego is a powerfully blinding thing.

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Originally Posted by Andrew

Wrong, FF2 had Summons.

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We already went over that (again, READ), FFIV had one summon by one character and is at the mid of the series.