Why are old school RPGs held in such high esteem?

Older RPGs might have better story and all, I don't know. That part is teh subjective.

But gameplay wise they are extremely weak when compared to newer games. All what I did in most older games is press one button over and over till I reached the end. Alot of Western stuff has evolved alot since then, and some of the Japanese stuff(like Valkyrie Profile, Chrono Cross, or the new BOF) has improved quite a bit.

Still, there are quite a few older games that I'd regard as decent to this day. Chrono Trigger for example, is just as amazing as it was 8 years ago. And most strategy and action RPGs have also aged well, as they are mostly gameplay oriented.

OK: Item #1 here (yes I know that I am reiterating myself, but no one, except for a few, have hit this) is the difficulty/challenge. If I wanted a good story I would read a book. I like to be challenged to a game of wits where it is up to me if the main character dies or not. I can count on one hand the ammount of difficult RPG's since the PS era of RPGs (I am not including the FFTactics or Tactics anything style here). I liked actually worrieing about my characters. Not "Oh crap random battle again... X . X . X. X . O . X. Done glad that was over, when is the next FMV?"

Sorry, but very few modern RPGs have a challenge.

This is also very true of alot of modern "Action" games.

What ever I am just bitching, OMFGNINJAS!!! Will come in and say wahh or something and I probably deserve it.

Then again perhaps they are all just easier now because I am older... any thoughts?

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OK: Item #1 here (yes I know that I am reiterating myself, but no one, except for a few, have hit this) is the difficulty/challenge. If I wanted a good story I would read a book. I like to be challenged to a game of wits where it is up to me if the main character dies or not. I can count on one hand the ammount of difficult RPG's since the PS era of RPGs (I am not including the FFTactics or Tactics anything style here). I liked actually worrieing about my characters. Not "Oh crap random battle again... X . X . X. X . O . X. Done glad that was over, when is the next FMV?"

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I remember Stone, Johnpv and myself got into this discussion a long time ago:

What exactly is challanging about your average console rpg?

This is mostly in regards to the Final Fantasy, turn based battle system style of rpg.

John argued a few points about puzzles and choosing the right attack on a specific monster.

But Stone and myself felt that just about every console rpg just boiled down to you pressing a single button over and over again until the enemy was defeated. There isn't much challange in using water magic on a monster made out of fire. And it doesn't take much skill to wander back and forth in the same room, inducing random battles just so you can level up, move on the boss, then restart that process.


What exactly do you consider to be difficult elements in RPGs?

Bahh I cant think of anything. I remeber certain games kicking my ass though. I have not encountered that in a long time. Ok chalk me up for the nastalga catagory.

Boy dosen't that Deadly towers game suck for the NES? And it was released a whole year and a half after it was in japan!

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Originally Posted by Hero

Imagine a RPG coming out tomorrow.

There's no save system, except at one place inside towns, and not all towns have them.

The story moves forward only after running a few dungeons.

The dungeons are over-the-top difficult, long, and confusing, Every floor looks exactly the same; there's no way to tell if you go up or down floors when taking elevators/stairs. Oh, and there's no automap/mapping feature. No map to be found, anywhere.

Imagine enemies who can kick you ass five ways till Tuesday, unless you spend 2 - 3 hours of fighting random battles outside the first town, just to level up and get enough money to have decent armor/weapons.

Imagine only being able to hold a predetermined amount of items, half of which has to be your equipment. Now imagine each healing item needing their own space, even if it's just multiples of a single item type.

Imagine this game with today's graphics, coming out tomorrow. Would you buy it? Would you love it? Would you rip it a new one? This is basically Phantasy Star 2, except it came with a strat guide with the game, and was practically unbearable without it. Tell me why it's still such a good game today, when if a new game came out playing exactly the same, it would most likely be panned?

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What, you mean the remake?

Yeah, I'm gonna buy it. And, yeah, I'm gonna love it.

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Originally Posted by Regus

What exactly do you consider to be difficult elements in RPGs?

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Combat, typically. (Moreso for old-style PC RPGs than console games.) Sometimes puzzles, too. If you can't solve the puzzles then you just can't proceed. Again, this is often more of an issue on the PC. Console RPGs rarely seem challenging anymore.

BoF:DQ was a recent exception.

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Originally Posted by xS

PS2 is a terrible game that can’t even hold a candle to Beyond the Beyond and its ilk.

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that is so ridiculous. you are completely mental.

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Originally Posted by BenT

That's a really interesting statement. How can a video game, the whole purpose of which is to provide fun to the player, be a "good game" but "not fun"?

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i never agree when people say that the point of video games is to be "fun." a lot of what i get out of videogames i wouldn't characterize as fun. engaging, involving, entertaining, shocking, sublime, beautiful... these are all words i've used to describe games i love. not necessarily fun in any of the games i love. there's more to it than that.

I really enjoyed Phantasy Star II when I played through it about ten years ago. It was one of my first RPGs, and the game took me a hell of a long time to complete. It was actually more of a combined effort between my brother, my friend and I to get through some of those dungeons.

Anyways, although I enjoyed the game back then, I can't even entertain the thought of playing through Phantasy Star II again. The PS2 one might be nice, but if I would even consider going through the game again, it would need more than just a graphical overhaul. Like how many of the rougher edges in Final Fantasy 1's gameplay were buffed away with the WSC/PSX rereleases, I'd love to see Sega do the same for Phantasy Star II. I'm not suggesting the game should be turned into a cakewalk, but it could definately stand to see an auto-map feature, and much improved balance in the difficulty of enemies and bosses relative to where you are at in the game. A modernization of the gameplay, if you will.

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Originally Posted by Jeremy

I think they're held in high esteem because the focus seemed to be on the plots of the game, which tended to be more involving than many of today's RPGs.

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:wtf:

http://www.gamespy.com/halloffame/february02/dw/3s.jpg

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What exactly do you consider to be difficult elements in RPGs?

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Well, nothing really. Since RPGs are a unique gaming genre designed so that ultimately ANYONE can beat it, if they put enough time into it. Any monster can be defeated if you have enough XP. It's not like an adventure or action RPG where you might be stuck at a puzzle.

So I guess the only "challenge" or difficulty in an RPG is to see how fast you can beat the game.