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What isn't this true of? You could do this to every novel, every movie, every form of entertainment ever made... but it would only drain them of their enterainment value, just as it would be doing to an RPG. It's like replacing the Mona Lisa with the framed words 'some lady smiling.'Quote:
Originally Posted by Six
Yeah, you're right, plot summaries usually are about a page long, but I don't want a plot summary for an RPG, just like I wouldn't want a narrator to come onto to a movie screen and recite a few pertinent paragraphs as a montage of heartfelt moments runs past my eyes.
[edit] Ammadeau beat me to it.
To craft and example:
Aerith: You think Rufus is thinking about crossing the ocean from here, too?
Tifa: What? Does that mean Sephiroth already crossed the ocean?
Red XIII: Cloud, didn't you finish Rufus off?
Barret: We gotta get to the town up there... Mebbe we could climb the tower?
Priscilla: No! No! There's a high voltage current running underneath the tower.
Don't wander near it, it's dangerous! But... you might be able to if Mr. Dolphin
helps you. Follow me!
Tifa: High voltage tower...... I guess this means Cloud'll be all right.
Aeris: Yeah, better leave it to Cloud!
Red XIII: We're counting on you, Cloud!
Cloud: Hey!! Wait a second!
which of couse was already posted because I am too lazy to dig up my own examples
Compared to how Tolkien wielded language and expressed events with dialouge is amazing and powerfull to me.
"Well for myself," said Aragorn, "it is dark before me. I must go down also to Minas Tirith, but I do not yet see the road. An hour long prepared approaches."
Even just watching the movies you get a sence of this eloquence that is just not found in any game I have ever yet played.
Heh, I wasn't comparing the writing of Tolkien to the translators of FFVII, but just the same the text that you transcribed can be seen as "filler text and sub-plots," just like both can be summarized in at most a few pages.
I chose an somewhat insigifigant part from the Return of the King just as the dialoge there from 7 was insigifigant. I take it that it's a real excerpt, and some one who did say that games have told a better story than it can make a contrast to it. I never said you did.
Moreover, it's not JUST the story but how it is told. Mech summarized a fair portion of The Fellowship but summaries are not what people want. They want the story (in which case I agree with everyone on that part) not the Cliffs Notes version. The thing is, one is told in a way that could be written by any hack (incidentially, they are written by hacks) and the other is told as poetry made prose by one of the finest writters (IMO THE finest) of the 20th Century. No game designer should earn so much respect as to be placed above him and if someone says they do then they are loutish children.
Unfortunately you're right, most RPGs contain very juvenile and mediocore dialouge, but I think this just has to do with the fact that the developers are making a game as well, not just crafting a story.
Some decent headway is being made, though (the most recent example I can think of is KOTOR, where most of the dialouge is well-written and representative of actual conversation).
Not when it comes to storytelling, but I'd like to see Tolkien design a game on par with Super Metroid or something. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracer
Well of course, but none of those developers did everything themselves. If someone who could craft a story as well as Tolkien could and applied that as a story for a game and the development team put forward to represent that as best they could then we might get somewhere. Some one writes these storys and people like Red_War_Machine say they play these games for those storys you'd think they'd have something better than some 2-bit hack behind the perveribial type-writter. Everyone thinks they can give it a go and make an RPG (on gaming boards it seems) and I attribute that to the fact that the stories have no more substance than something your average forum poster could write. Hell, there's a wealth of oppurtunity in places like these... I can think of sevral people here who could write better stories than everything I've seen from Square, Enix, Square-Enix and Sega. PDS is the closest thing to being well written within memory and I'll wager that's because it's vaugely enigmatic and certianly unique in the manner in which it is presented to you.
I didn't say it was an instant classic for reading, merely that the script which dealt directly with the story is far larger then any old-school RPG.Quote:
Originally Posted by Six
As far as the level of writing goes, what we have now (trite as it may often be) is leagues beyond what we once had. As time goes on and as videogames are taken more seriously the writing quality will improve. We probably won't have something as good as Tolkien for another couple console (or whatever they become) generations, but it'll happen. Just take a look at KOTOR, which may not be stellar writing as far as the story goes but character wise comes off naturally. For instance, Jolee relating the story of the boy with Force destiny, quite possibly my favorite moment in the game. Yeah, it's intended nature was merely to say that nothing is as it seems and it was just some unnessacary extra dialogue, but it was some well-written unnessacary extra dialogue.
We'll get there. It'll just take some time.
Why is length/amount of script such a big issue anyway? Despite its lack of "script", I think PS2 can provide 40+ hours of gameplay, like any typical modern RPG. And shouldn't that be the bottom line?
Xenogears(saga).Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracer
It's only drawback is that it had the horrible fate and being a rush-job J-RPG and not some wonderful novel written by some talented author who'll be remembered for years to come.
There's a difference between good writing and a good story, and I think RPG developers have been churning out examples of the latter for quite a while now.
But I think the good writing will come, especially since video games seem to becoming and much more viable storytelling medium.
RPGs rely heavily on this "script" you speak of, and much of this thread has been focused on plot, and how earlier RPGs have much inferior ones.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gutsman