Why are old school RPGs held in such high esteem?

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Originally Posted by JM

Man, it is posts like this that are adding fuel to the "Bad at the English language" fire. I make my share of mistakes, but if I'm not sure about what I have typed, I will copy it into a program with spell check. It doesn't take long, and it helps a lot.

JM

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Fire? I never claimed to be a master at English.

Sure, you can tell Jeremy his reviews stink and he shouldn't be writing. I don't write serious reviews and think I have a style. Especially when I post on a message forum for recreation.

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Originally Posted by Rich

Battle system != Gameplay.

While the battle system through the Final Fantasy series has remained mostly the same, the preparation for the battles throughout the Final Fantasy series (part of the gameplay) has changed dramaticly, as Omnigear has pointed out. (junction, materia, sphere grid, etc.)

My 2 cents.

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The Materia system, the sphere grid, etc. They all are in place for one thing: To level up your character. You still run around and gain levels. In every Final Fantasy you had to tend to your character before the battle with armor, items (for health and MP, mostly) and then went on in.

According to Mech Deus and you guys, the system is different. I'll agree. Pulling magic out of your enemies is different than learning them on the Sphere grid. But those systems are designed to be different but do the same thing in the end when you get to the battle (power you up).

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Originally Posted by Andrew

Fire? I never claimed to be a master at English.

Sure, you can tell Jeremy his reviews stink and he shouldn't be writing. I don't write serious reviews and think I have a style. Especially when I post on a message forum for recreation.

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Yeah, but it works wonders for people taking your seriously. It is hard for me to accept you as an authority on anything if you can't handle spelling. (You have misspelled some words more than once, & in the same way, so it isn't just miss-typed.)

JM

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Originally Posted by Andrew

I've never played them.

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Never. Played. Sonic. Where are OMFG and AFX when you need them? I'm running out of insults here.

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Originally Posted by JM

Yeah, but it works wonders for people taking your seriously. It is hard for me to accept you as an authority on anything if you can't handle spelling. (You have misspelled some words more than once, & in the same way, so it isn't just miss-typed.)

JM

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Welcome to the internet.

Spelling has no relevant connection to knowledge of a subject (except of English itself). Obviously some people took me seriously, this thread has been extremely active as of late.

I'm not going to spell check and comb through my posts with a fine toothed comb in order to get all the kinks out. For the most part, people seem to understand what I'm saying.

You've never pointed this out in the Galleria before. You understood those posts just fine. Dolemite and Dragonmaster Dyne have never said they didn't know what I was saying in the WWE Wrestling thread. It only seems to happen when people get hostile.

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Originally Posted by JM

To be honest, there have been just as many rude comments about IQs & such directed at Andrew as he has made to others. It hasn't been one sided.

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Yeah, but at least ours were funny.

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Originally Posted by StriderKyo

Never. Played. Sonic. Where are OMFG and AFX when you need them? I'm running out of insults here.

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Is that what you call them?

The only Sonic I've played was at friends houses who had Sega Consoles and on Gamegear. Got a problem? Tough shit.

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Originally Posted by epmode

i've been coding gba demos in my spare time, but you won't see me acting like a pompous ass. you're entitled to your opinion, but dismissing someone's argument simply because they haven't cobbled together a few lame game demos is infuriating. either show us this masterpiece of game design, or shut up about it.

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Funny how that last sentence has gone ignored...

Btw, where'd you snag the GBA middleware? Or are you coding straight to the metal? I'd love to see the audio suite. I'm guessing it's still modulation based like the SNES? It must be pretty suped up, because I can't see an SNES pulling off CotM's intro theme.

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Originally Posted by Andrew

The only Sonic I've played was at friends houses who had Sega Consoles and on Gamegear. Got a problem? Tough shit.

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Can you please put a "747" at the end of your name? Because that would rock.

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Originally Posted by StriderKyo

Yeah, but at least ours were funny.

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Really? You're a funny guy. So funny, infact, that you think someone who hasn't played Sonic in 2D form is funny. Wow, you sure got me there Striker Kyo. A true gem of Toronto.

Maybe now you can go down to the local bar and call people 'teh lame' because they aren't on their LAN configuration playing the new Warcraft 3 expansion! You're cool. I wish I could be like you.

Wait, wait. You know. I'm going to try to keep this civil. The only reason I haven't been insulting people like that is because I like and post a lot to TNL.

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Originally Posted by StriderKyo

Can you please put a "747" at the end of your name? Because that would rock.

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Nerdy humour! Wow, got me there. Bring out the real zingers next, please. I don't like these second rate bits. Use your Sonic Mega Collection for inspiration.

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Originally Posted by Andrew

Really? You're a funny guy. So funny, infact, that you think someone who hasn't played Sonic in 2D form is funny.

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If they claim to be a master 2D game designer, yeah. I suggest you put "never played Sonic" at the top of your resume and see how you do.

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Wow, you sure got me there Striker Kyo.

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Okay, I'm losing track - which one of us are you insulting here?

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Maybe now you can go down to the local bar and call people 'teh lame' because they aren't on their LAN configuration playing the new Warcraft 3 expansion!

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Or I could go on a gaming message board and tell the entire place that they don't know as much as me because I'm a 19 year old who works at Pizza Hut and has spent some "spare time" working on a game demo.

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You're cool. I wish I could be like you.

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I'm sorry, I'm not sure there's much hope for you there.

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Wait, wait. You know. I'm going to try to keep this civil. The only reason I haven't been insulting people like that is because I like and post a lot to TNL.

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Reading that last sentence...you're not that Brazillian Opa Age guy again, are you?

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Nerdy humour! Wow, got me there. Bring out the real zingers next, please. I don't like these second rate bits.

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If you even got that joke, I'd like you to explain it to me.

EDIT: Okay, in retrospect Lhadatt asked for this to cool off, so I'll continue this elsewhere, later on.

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Originally Posted by StriderKyo

Btw, where'd you snag the GBA middleware?

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pm sent

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Originally Posted by StriderKyo

If they claim to be a master 2D game designer, yeah. I suggest you put "never played Sonic" at the top of your resume and see how you do.



Okay, I'm losing track - which one of us are you insulting here?



Or I could go on a gaming message board and tell the entire place that they don't know as much as me because I'm a 19 year old who works at Pizza Hut and has spent some "spare time" working on a game demo.



I'm sorry, I'm not sure there's much hope for you there.



Reading that last sentence...you're not that Brazillian Opa Age guy again, are you?



If you even got that joke, I'd like you to explain it to me.

EDIT: Okay, in retrospect Lhadatt asked for this to cool off, so I'll continue this elsewhere, later on.

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I'll put it at the top of my resume and they'll be like: Oh, okay.

Unlike you, I didn't insult you. I was pointing out that you "got me good" which will hereby be referred to as "Striker Kyo's Zing Sting". I fell victim to it. I now need to put on a blue jumpsuit and spike my hair to make up for a game I didn't play thoroughly 8 years ago.

Please quote me where I said I was a master of 2D gaming.

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Or I could go on a gaming message board and tell the entire place that they don't know as much as me because I'm a 19 year old who works at Pizza Hut and has spent some "spare time" working on a game demo.

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That would be truthful, if you had any accomplishments with game making at all.

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Originally Posted by StriderKyo

Btw, where'd you snag the GBA middleware?

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Originally Posted by StriderKyo

EDIT: Okay, in retrospect Lhadatt asked for this to cool off, so I'll continue this elsewhere, later on.

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I'll be happy to ignore quips with you over the PM system if it will fill your hunger for insulting.

I'm looking forward to Temple of Elemental Evil for the PC. Is that an old RPG, since ToEE was one of the first D&D modules, or a new RPG? Then again, Village of Hommlet was old and ToEE was supposed to be the sequel but didn't arrive for much, much later, so it's not as old as you might think.

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Originally Posted by Andrew

Oh, BTW Mech Deus. Can you further design the Juctioning System and other differences. It would help me differenciate further between them and what I missed by using a similar strategy

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FFVIII: The game's battle system resides on two fronts: Limit Breaks and Junctioning. Unlike the other Limit Break systems in other FFs, this one was activated solely by how low your life was. The less your HP the greater the chance of getting a Limit Break. With Junctioning the idea was to find enemies that have high level spells, Draw them out, and then use Guardians to attach the spells to a character. Different Guardians allow you to attach spells to different attributes and give off other bonuses, and the longer a Guardian was attached to a certain character the more they "bonded." A bonded Guardian would give off greater bonuses but would also mean that if you tried to attach a Guardian of a different type later on the bonuses would actually be smaller then if the character was neutral towards all Guardians. They were possessive little bastards so you had to watch who you were hooking up with who not only in terms of current power but also for future switching.

Hence, the best way to play is to take a character with great potential, give him a Guardian that can emphasize strength and then find powerful spells to Junction into him. Once that's done, keep him at as low health as possible and use the other characters as backup to make sure he stays alive while abusing the Limit Break. This can be altered even farther since enemies levels are based on your teams, so making sure you have characters that don't level up and using them later on will mean that enemies in turn will grow weaker because they'll base their power on the mean of your groups levels.

FFVII: This game in terms of different characters is the most useless. Aside from Limit Breaks there is little difference between the characters in battle and Materia removes individuality. However, Materia also has a different function in terms of combos and setups. Find a weapon with multiple multi-slots and then obtain two Materia of the same kind, linking each up with something different. For instance:

Fire3<->Steal
Fire2<->Absorb HP

Now, if you cast Fire3 you'll also steal at the same time. But if you cast Fire2 (which both slots share as a spell since powered Materia have all lesser spells contained within) you'll steal and absorb hp. Get a weapon with four two-slots or other similar combinations and you can really start to wreak havoc. Using combinations of First Attack (or whatever its name was) with the above means you can also start dealing damage before either you or the enemy gets a turn. Setting up the combos completely changes the power levels in the game (albiet unfairly in the players favor) but still have to be carefully watched. You don't want to setup a huge combo that heals anything you come across, but FFVII generally obviously warns elemental damage with the terrain.

Whenever I hear of Fatal1ty now, I can't help but think of his very own rap song.

I know about the Materia in FF7.

I've played FF4, FF6, FF7, FF9 and FFX through to completion. I never had access to FF5, FF1 2 and 3 until recently (except for 3). The only FF I didn't play was FF8 because I didn't enjoy the characters or settings at all.

I thought Seifer was cool, but he didn't seem to be anything but a lacky for the witch. I didn't like that cowboy guy and how he was a sureshot yet couldn't snipe her. I've also heard that FF8s story gets juicy later on in the game. Laguna and Squall meet up or something like that (I don't know how that's supposed to work).

Hmm. Interesting.

I never even noticed the differences between them. I still wish the battle engine would be changed up a bit (Something like the button interface of a Xenogears would definitely be cool in a Final Fantasy for a bard, or the button combination system Sabin had)

I know why they chose to discontinue Sabins button combos. Some people have trouble pulling them off. (even though it tells you how to)

Role:
Since they never made a PC game based on Temple of Elemental Evil before, I don't know what you mean by "new" or "old". I guess it's "new", since there hasn't been a previous one.

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Originally Posted by Andrew

I never even noticed the differences between them.

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Obviously. You should have said that 8 pages ago. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Andrew

The only FF I didn't play was FF8 because I didn't enjoy the characters or settings at all.

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The main problem with FFVIII was that people never understood its battle system. So many people tried to play it like FFVII and got pissed off because it didn't work like that in slightest. Summoning was useless, leveling up was useless, finding new weapons was next to impossible, and you didn't get access to your best attacks until you got weak. With FFVII its possible to KotR your way through most of the game if you so choose, but if you to Summon in FFVIII you'll just get insanely long animations that do less damage then the characters can (granted, they went on so long because of the chance to manually powerup, something else I think a lot people missed).

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Laguna and Squall meet up or something like that (I don't know how that's supposed to work).

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If you want to know:Squall's dreams were the work of the female trying to help Laguna (the girl in green very briefly seen right after the opening FMV while Squall is in the hospital bed) and she was sending them visions of Laguna's past. By the time Squall meets Laguna he's older then in the dreams (obviously) and is now mayor of a city, IIRC. There are hints that he's Squall's father, but nothing confirmed in any way.

FFVIII had some cool moments and the coolest airship of the series, but it also had some dumbass characters and nonsensical science later on. Time Compression is a cool idea in theory, but that's all it has. Late in the game a lot of the challenge is also removed once you get the ability No Encounter and find the Islands of Heaven and Hell, so you can just run around and absorb the most powerful spells in the game to your hearts content.

Kinda makes me want to play it again. I wish my copy hadn't been stolen. :(

I loved FF VIII's battle system. it was refreshing to see Square really go for something new in it. I liked the materia system in VII as well, but the junctioning system of VIII added just a bit more strategy to the mix, so I'll give it the nod.

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Originally Posted by OmniGear

Obviously. You should have said that 8 pages ago. :rolleyes:

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Wow, you just don't let go.

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Originally Posted by MechDeus

The main problem with FFVIII was that people never understood its battle system. So many people tried to play it like FFVII and got pissed off because it didn't work like that in slightest. Summoning was useless, leveling up was useless, finding new weapons was next to impossible, and you didn't get access to your best attacks until you got weak. With FFVII its possible to KotR your way through most of the game if you so choose, but if you to Summon in FFVIII you'll just get insanely long animations that do less damage then the characters can (granted, they went on so long because of the chance to manually powerup, something else I think a lot people missed).

FFVIII had some cool moments and the coolest airship of the series, but it also had some dumbass characters and nonsensical science later on. Time Compression is a cool idea in theory, but that's all it has. Late in the game a lot of the challenge is also removed once you get the ability No Encounter and find the Islands of Heaven and Hell, so you can just run around and absorb the most powerful spells in the game to your hearts content.

Kinda makes me want to play it again. I wish my copy hadn't been stolen. :(

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That's kind of cool. I still have my copy. Speaking of which, have you ever played Final Fantasy Tactics? I own the game, and it doesn't work on my PS2. I need to pick up a PSone, badly (before they go out of production). I wonder if there's some problem I'm overlooking.

I watched my friend play FFT so much he had his characters dripping with skill, yet still ripped his hair out in some battles. I wanted to get in to it (plus I think the religion story is done well), but I don't think I'll be able to for awhile because of this technology hiccup I'm having.

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Originally Posted by Jeremy

... so I'll give it the nod.

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I'm sure that'll make its day.

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Originally Posted by Andrew

I watched my friend Evan play FFT so much he had his characters dripping with skill, yet still ripped his hair out in some battles. I wanted to get in to it (plus I think the religion story is done well), but I don't think I'll be able to for awhile because of this technology hiccup I'm having.

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FFT is crazy because in story battles the enemies levels are based on your main character. So let's say you take out a team and fight a crapload of major battles, rotating everyone but the main guy so you end up with him at level 30 and everyone else at 25. The next story battle you fight will have all your enemies at level 30, meaning the entire rest of your team is at a disadvantage. Absolutely aggravating. Combine that with it taking so long to level up later on, and that can be one helluva challenging game.

Although I've never actually played all that far into it, as for whatever reason everything about strategy RPGs appeals to me (the battle, the concepts, the designs, the large-scale, etc.) but the execution. I'm not sure why, but they always end up not being very fun to play for me, although I'm still a sucker for getting them. One day I'll finish FFT.

You don't like the gridded map? I think that's one of the more appealing parts of it for me.

Any idea about why it's conflicting with my PS2?

I have no problem with the gridded map. I'm not sure what it is, I just don't really like strat-RPGs.

As for your PS2, are there any other games it doesn't read (PS or PS2)?

Not that I've found. Oh wait, it doesn't read Tekken (the original) and Twisted Metal (the original). But FFT came out much later then those games.

The one thing that I love about FFT is the altitude difference in battle for a long range attacker. It also stinks when you're downslope, but oh well.

Might just be dirty and those games read a certain way or something slong those lines. If you're confident in your ability to do so you should pop open your PS2 and use some canned air to blow the dust out, or at least blow through the vents on both sides.

It's just the lid, so I don't think it will be a problem. The only reason I don't think it's dust would be because it runs other games just fine. Maybe the boot up sequence is not the same.

I'll try that out.

BTW, I'm currently writing a development document for an RPG (probably 2D) based on gang land wars for territory (think Gangs of New York). Would you be interested in consulting us when we get a running demo up?
It probably won't be for a long time, but it's good to get some help with someone who knows a lot about J-RPGs. Clearly, I don't pay much attention to detail when it comes to these games.

Greatest. Thread. Ever.

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Originally Posted by Andrew

BTW, I'm currently writing a development document for an RPG (probably 2D) based on gang land wars for territory (think Gangs of New York). Would you be interested in consulting us when we get a running demo up?

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Possibly. Contact me when something's actually up and running.

"Greatest. Thread. Ever."

True indeed.

Pa

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C00kie Monster rules.

Damn straight he does.

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Originally Posted by StriderKyo

...

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If we made this thread an RPG, here's where StriderKyo would put up a post regarding how we went all Skies of Arcadia at the end.

Or just continue staring at the screen in disbelief.

I fear the thread is dying. Fight, dammit, FIGHT!!!!

>Late in the game a lot of the challenge is also removed once you get the ability No Encounter

Uhm, 6 hours into the game isn't really "late"... (well, unless you're going for the time trial)
How about this: try to finish the game without leveling up, but still getting everything (all cards, all GFs, all items, eventually all stats at 254 without junction- since 255 could be cheated). It's possible.
(and that is precisely why I like FF8 over all the others)

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Originally Posted by Saffran

Uhm, 6 hours into the game isn't really "late"... (well, unless you're going for the time trial)

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...And the second half of that sentence you cut out?

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Originally Posted by MechDeus

If we made this thread an RPG, here's where StriderKyo would put up a post regarding how we went all Skies of Arcadia at the end.

Or just continue staring at the screen in disbelief.

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I'd definitely make Striker Kyo a giajin homey.

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Originally Posted by MechDeus

...And the second half of that sentence you cut out?

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snip snip

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Originally Posted by RoleTroll

I'm looking forward to Temple of Elemental Evil for the PC. Is that an old RPG, since ToEE was one of the first D&D modules, or a new RPG? Then again, Village of Hommlet was old and ToEE was supposed to be the sequel but didn't arrive for much, much later, so it's not as old as you might think.

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To make it even more confusing, it'll be using 3rd edition rules.

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Originally Posted by Andrew

I watched my friend play FFT so much he had his characters dripping with skill, yet still ripped his hair out in some battles.

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If you set your characters up right the battles are cake. Just have everyone learn all the Calculator skills and all the spells that can be calculated. You'll shred everything in the game in no time flat. The only frustrating parts are trying to steal some of the rare equipment off certain enemies, and having to do each level of the Deep Dungeon over again until you get the items instead of Pheonix Downs. Well, that Nelveska Temple fight was kinda frustrating. But that's it, really.

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Originally Posted by MechDeus

FFT is crazy because in story battles the enemies levels are based on your main character.

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No, it's the random battles where the enemy levels are based on your main character. The enemies in story battles have set levels.

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Originally Posted by Andrew

I'd definitely make Striker Kyo a giajin homey.



snip snip

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Sorry dude, but it's STRIDER KYO

STRYKER!

http://www.mk5.org/tabmok99/yamp-stryker.jpg

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Originally Posted by MechDeus

If we made this thread an RPG, here's where StriderKyo would put up a post regarding how we went all Skies of Arcadia at the end.

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*Gives Mech multiple high/low fives*
YAAAAAYYY!!!

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Originally Posted by Andrew

I'd definitely make Striker Kyo a giajin homey.

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I'd definitely have you tested for dislexia.

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Originally Posted by Brisco Bold

Sorry dude, but it's STRIDER KYO

STRYKER!

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Oh my bad, I just don't care about him very much.

I asked a developer I know (professionally, as in he makes money off of it) and according to him we all have it wrong.

Jeremiah: gameplay doesnt really pertain to FF
Andrew: They all use the same basic battle system, is that accurate?
Jeremiah: well
Jeremiah: battle system is just 1 system
Andrew: What about something that has a strong story, but also good controls and stuff? How would that differ?
Jeremiah: each ff had a different leveling system
Jeremiah: some had jobs some had espers... and materia.... and FFx had that weird board
Jeremiah: but the battling is pretty much the same
Jeremiah: maybe a nuance is different
Andrew: the way you prepared for a battle is different for each, but the battles are the same.
Jeremiah: but not overall
Jeremiah: ya battling is turnbased menu driven
Andrew: Yeah, I said largely to leave open for a small change
Jeremiah: nothing new there
Jeremiah: and LAME
Jeremiah: hehe
Andrew: So what is gameplay, exactly? I know you don't have a given explanation, but what would you say it is?
Andrew: I'm asking you because you have experience. Paying experience
Jeremiah: gameplay in general?
Andrew: Yeah
Jeremiah: or for FF?
Andrew: General def
Jeremiah: gameplay is the sum of all in-game systems......... like the GUI, the AI, the Shooting or Building......
Jeremiah: put them all together and ya got the sum of all in game systems............ i.e. gameplay
Jeremiah: art style and story are not gameplay...... u dont play those
Jeremiah: but.... with FF....... u kinda do hehe
Jeremiah: cause no one buys FF for it's battle system
Jeremiah: or leveling system
Andrew: hmm
Andrew: They're 'apart' of it, but not the driving force.
Andrew: Okay.

Andrew: Here's a definition I was given:
Andrew: the set of actions taken by the gamer, the reactions produced by the software and the consequences of said actions and reactions upon the game flow and game environment.
Andrew: Is that correct?
Jeremiah: O_o
Jeremiah: game play is just the end result of all the in-game systems that come together to create your experience....... it's not any actions done by the gamer......... you don't dictate the actions......O_o
Jeremiah: and i dunno what game flow is hehe
Jeremiah: game flow to me is like....... how well the story and levels progress hehe
Jeremiah: and game environemtn is art...... art is not a game system
Jeremiah: Art is Art...... Sound is Sound....... Design is Systems
Jeremiah: Sum of all Systems is Gameplay
Andrew: ok
Jeremiah: Art and Sound are not part of it.... cause think of it this way..... u could slap a million different art styles or music or sfx on any give game........ and still have the same gameplay


It was over AIM and I changed his AIM name for his protection. Its interesting to talk to him. He's worked on various Xbox online games, Anarchy Online, Eternia and Fate (which was cancelled for the Xbox). Just so you know some of the stuff he's done. He also works on cell phone games with his new company the 5th cell. www.5thcell.com

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Originally Posted by StriderKyo

I'd definitely have you tested for dislexia.

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dyslexia? I'd have you tested for something lodged in your... yeah, lets keep this civil.

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Originally Posted by MechDeus

My point was that they don't play alike. I'm guessing you don't understand the definition of that word either?I did earlier. As for FFX . . . didn't and thus each needed to be played differently. Play FFIX like FFVIII and you'll get slaughtered, play FFX like FFIX and you'll get nowhere.

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I think we're overlooking FFIV.

As the first (only) in the series to use the *true* Active Time battle or whatever they called it, I think the FFIV battle engine is the best one they have used - battle was not pure turn based or even the modified (FFVI+) Active Time.

In my mind, the modified Active Time seen in every FF since IV consists of a speed rating for all characters/enemies and a little bar that fills up so you can judge when it's your turn to attack. But all attacks happen immediently following the selected action - choose fight you fight, choose cast magic spell 6 you cast spell 6. There's nothing active about every attack, skill and spell taking the same amount of time to use. First spell you learn in the game -choose and cast. Most powerful spell in the game - choose and cast.

That sucks :D

FFIV implemented some strange system in which spells (in the greatest degree) and some physical attacks were not instant actions. There seems to be some system that provides for bonuses on often used spells and gives penalties on lesser used ones. For example...

Rydia had a few attacks that I always use - Nuke and Bahamut. These two spells were instant in casting eventually, though in the begining they took awhile to cast. Rosa was always casting Cure 4 and the rare instance when I wanted to piss off a Behemoth I'd cast White and it would take much, much longer than Cure 4. Cast White repeatedly and the speed would incease as a result. Kain's jump attack was not as fast as a standard sword in the invocation, and even slower in the completion - sometimes taking a full round or more of other character's actions before he landed.

No other FF game employed this ingenious system. It gives a real "active time" feeling to the battles and requires more strategy then equipping XFight and a Genji Glove to your fastest character and having at it.

And FFIV also limited the skills and characters you could use in battle - Rosa was the white mage, Kain the Dragoon, Edge the Ninja. Sure giving you options of different characters with different skills is neat, but when every character has access to every main ability (black magic, white magic, red/blue etc magic, attack, summon, etc) it negates the advantages of different characters (note- Limit breaks and crap are no excuse and do not sufficiently establish differences between characters :p) because every character is basically the same OR could be the same with a little bit of equiping.

I also fail to fathom why the number of characters in battle was ever reduced from five. There is no explanition for this barring an inability of the PS to display enough polys for the characters and the enemies. Or sucky gameplay, heh.

Yeah.

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Originally Posted by Six

I think we're overlooking FFIV.

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I overlooked it because I still haven't played through it. Been meaning to for years, but just never got to it.

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I also fail to fathom why the number of characters in battle was ever reduced from five.

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They probably felt that lowering the number would make the games harder, as you would have less people to fall back on for resurrection as characters get killed off in battle.

It also may be that they thought people were just used to the 3 man system (which I think were done for system requirement limitations) and didn't want to alienate the huge userbase they made with FF7 without warming them up first.

With 5 people, the enemies were harder and it was much more difficult to keep everybody alive.

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Originally Posted by Andrew

I asked a developer I know (professionally, as in he makes money off of it) and according to him we all have it wrong.

Jeremiah: gameplay is the sum of all in-game systems......... like the GUI, the AI, the Shooting or Building......

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Originally Posted by StriderKyo, five pages ago

Gameplay involves response, kinesthetics, strategy, move speed, interface, relationship to environment, and several other things that aren't what you're talking about.

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kinesthetics?

Interface is typically under art.

Oh and, what I was talking about is apart of it. It's just not the big picture. He did, however, agree that the battle system was largely the same. (which is what I was refering to when I said battle engine)

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Originally Posted by Andrew

Interface is typically under art.

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Originally Posted by Game Designer Guy

gameplay is the sum of all in-game systems......... like the GUI

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Originally Posted by Andrew

It also may be that they thought people were just used to the 3 man system (which I think were done for system requirement limitations) and didn't want to alienate the huge userbase they made with FF7 without warming them up first.

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IIRC, it was 4 (I-III) ->5 (IV) ->4 (V-VI) ->3 (VII-VIII) ->4 (IX) ->3 (X)

Striker: kinesthetics?

Mech: Maybe it's just developer preference then.

I think in FFVII and VIII's case it had everything to do with how many polys they could push onscreen.

I don't know. They seemed to manage it well with FFIX. There seems to be no common link as to why they choose the number they choose.

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Originally Posted by Andrew

Striker:

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:xx:

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kinesthetics?

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Kinesthesia is the sense that detects bodily position, weight, or movement in space. In videogame terms, the "feel" as it relates to your character's movements onscreen.

I don't think that has its own system. (I say Striker just to stick it to you) Probably just a piece of another one like animation or physics.

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Originally Posted by Andrew

I don't know. They seemed to manage it well with FFIX. There seems to be no common link as to why they choose the number they choose.

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Notice that as the games go on they can fit more and make it look better? That's because they were getting a better grip on the hardware and figuring out how to make it really shine. Maximum power at a system birth is generally nowhere near maximum power at a system's end, because of all the tricks and such that have been developed.

Check out Chrono Cross and FFIX through an emulator, those games are far more beautiful then the PS displaying through a TV would ever have you imagine. Then try FFVII, and you'll start to see just how far they came in graphical prowess.

>..And the second half of that sentence you cut out?

Yes.

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Late in the game a lot of the challenge is also removed once you get the ability No Encounter and find the Islands of Heaven and Hell, so you can just run around and absorb the most powerful spells in the game to your hearts content.

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Technically your sentence could stop just before "and". Of course, if I had paid more attention, I would have notice that from the context I had to include the rest too, but technically as long as I don't read further than "No Encounter" your sentence is correct, its meaning however is different.
All that to say, I didn't read the whole sentence, sorry -_-

I thought you said Striker instead of Strider because Strider is before your time, just like Sonic and Flicky.

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Originally Posted by MechDeus

Notice that as the games go on they can fit more and make it look better? That's because they were getting a better grip on the hardware and figuring out how to make it really shine. Maximum power at a system birth is generally nowhere near maximum power at a system's end, because of all the tricks and such that have been developed.

Check out Chrono Cross and FFIX through an emulator, those games are far more beautiful then the PS displaying through a TV would ever have you imagine. Then try FFVII, and you'll start to see just how far they came in graphical prowess.

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Yeah, that's true. I just wonder if the gap between FFVII and VIII, timewise wasn't enough for them to figure it out. Guess not.

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Originally Posted by RoleTroll

I thought you said Striker instead of Strider because Strider is before your time, just like Sonic and Flicky.

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Before my time? Ummm where did I say that? Mind not pulling shit out of your ass and slamming it on the forum.

Just because I didn't play them, doesn't mean they're before my time.

Flicky was before your time. 1984 and all.

It's probably a good thing that your buddy doesn't post here. He clearly knows too much and would only be brought down by the gaming internet's inability to grasp his no doubt infallible take on gameplay and highbrow concepts regarding gaming in general. It's good that you have a mentor though. I wonder though, what are some of his contributions to the industry? And since we've got gameplay all sewed up now (give me strength), I wonder Andrew, what is your definition of "contribution to the industry"? That was a big ego driven point of contention for you earlier on in this thread and since our value as gamers, the very bankrollers behind the industry moguls, would seem to be at your mercy, I'm very curious to know what it takes to be a contributor in the broad and sweeping industry of interactive entertainment.

Thanks for your time.

Pa

Time, a good team with talent and luck.

And I gave you some of his projects above.