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Ok, I've been posting here for upwards of a year now and I keep hearing a term and seeing pictures of an item that's use escapes me.
A supergun.
I've seen pictures in the "Show Us Your Gaming Setup" thread and I've seeen them mentioned in many arcade game related threads. I've got the feeling it has something to do with palying arcade games at home but I really have little idea what they are for.
Well all I want to know is should I look for something different living in europe and all? I remember someone saying "no you should go for_____ since we have____ here", yea I know it doesn't get more diffuse than that so I better put it like this: If I ever get the chance to obtain one of Matt's work of arts should I just fork out the money or is it anything special outside of power stepdown converters I need to know?
:wtf: :wtf: :wtf:Quote:
Originally Posted by J2d
*cries in confusion*
Yea you play arcade games at home with one, Click_Stick, Mode7 or some other lucky rotten bastard will go in depth on the issue as soon as they are through playing those games that you and I can only dream about.
A Supergun allows you to use your Jamma compatible PCB with your RGB / Scart TV. It usually comes with arcade style joysticks. Since US TVs can't show RGB signal, I suppose there's a different system for that country, but it'll lose image quality.
Can Pal countries tv's show RGB?Quote:
Originally Posted by Recap
Most of 'em. Hi definition TVs usually can't, thoe.Quote:
Originally Posted by J2d
As Recap said, a Supergun allows you to play arcade games at home, hooked up to either your TV, or some kind of monitor. Nice ones will offer video conversion to various formats (S-Video, composite) in addition to the normal RGB signal.
There are a couple companies that make and sell them, and several people have made their own. It's a cheaper and doesn't require as much space as a cabinet.
A Supergun is a power supply, a Jamma harness, a joystick, and sometimes an NTSC converter in a box. A simple device, but a device that requires connecting alot of wires none the less if you feel like building one.
Alright then, I suppose that pretty much answers my question.
Why is it called a "supergun" though?
Because it sounds cool? :sweat:
Heh, I always wondered why they were called that myself. Before I came to TNL, most people I knew just called them "Jamma rigs". Maybe that's because you can get away with calling them Superguns with less confusion here.
My guess is that one of the companies that makes Jamma harnesses, probably Raven Games, started calling them "Superguns" and the name stuck.
Me, I'll probably never buy one and wait till I have the space for a bonafide cabinet. Shouldn't be long now.
I gots yer supergun right here
That's pretty super.
According to Matt [from a previous thread], a Taiwan-based company produced a JAMMA box named "Supergun" and the name just stuck.
Glad it did, too. Such a slick-sounding name for a simple piece of equipment.
A supergun is like a beautiful lady.
A cabinet is her beautiful sister.
An emulator is like their brother who's had a sex change. He might look like a beautiful lady in every way and cause pleasurable friction but he sure as hell ain't no real woman.
Gimme an "M!"
Gimme an "A!"
Gimme an "M!"
Gimme an "E!"
Hooray for arcade games at home! :)
Ok, a few more questions:
1) Are these things legal or do they fall under the same laws of piracy?
2) How much do they generally cost.
3) How much are the JAMMA games that run on them?
The fact that it's free about evens it out.Quote:
Originally Posted by padman
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tragic
1) Perfectly legal; they're just adaptors to use PCBs in a non-standard monitor.
2) Not much.
3) Depends on the game's year, rarity, and who's selling them. A "jamma game" is almost any arcade game you can think of. From MVS games to Naomi dedicated machines. "Jamma" is just the standard cabinet conection.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Click_Stick
That had to be long ago. I remember a 1993 issue of CVG showing it under this name. It should be the very first (and only?) Western mag to do it.
If someone is interested in my opinion, an emulator with a big VGA monitor and the possibility of using real arcade joysticks or good console joysticks in the computer can give a better experience than actual PCBs in the TVs; you always get some problems with the image adjustments or the PCB's status.Quote:
Originally Posted by OmniGear
Using appropiate graphic effects on emulators (fake scanlines, for instance) will always give a better picture quality than a non-RGB TV signal. You can even buy a graphic card to use your PC in low-res, RGB TVs, if you want.
Yet another padman quote for my sig.Quote:
Originally Posted by padman
Not really. Emulators can be pretty close, but when it comes down to it playing an emu doesn't really feel like an actual arcade PCB. In my experience (from trying the two side by side), the game speed is often off, and the graphics rendering doesn't look the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by Recap
Control is a mixed bag - sometimes they get it right, but more often than not, it's nowhere near accurate. I tried playing Dimahoo on MAME a few days ago after a long session with the PCB, and I was slipping all over the place and crashing into stuff. Not good!
And there's nothing to stop you from using good joysticks with a supergun, or even a large VGA monitor, either (if you buy an XRGB). The only real benefits that emulators have is that they don't cost anything and take up less space.
Composite video does indeed look bad. But, if your TV does a good job of processing S-Video, the picture is actually really good and looks a lot better than the anti-aliased, fuzzy picture that MAME gives you. Of course, investing in an RGB setup would be perfect.Quote:
Using appropiate graphic effects on emulators (fake scanlines, for instance) will always give a better picture quality than a non-RGB TV signal. You can even buy a graphic card to use your PC in low-res, RGB TVs, if you want.
That timeframe sounds about right. As I remember, it dates from around the same time the SF2 craze hit. The SNES port of SF2 was a long time coming, which must have been good for business.Quote:
That had to be long ago. I remember a 1993 issue of CVG showing it under this name. It should be the very first (and only?) Western mag to do it.
When I lived in Toronto, there was one local shop that had the box from an original "Super Gun" in the store. Sadly, when I asked if I could buy it they told me that it was empty :(
A ready-made supegun will cost you somewhere in the neighbourhood of $300 or so. It's very possible to make one yourself for less, but be aware that if you want to make something that is solidly built and looks professional, it takes an awful lot of work, and the parts will cost more than you think.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tragic
Used JAMMA boards can vary in price from $20 or so for older games that nobody cares about, up to $100-200 for popular and recent boards. Don't even think about buying newly released games - they'll run you a couple grand each! Typically, PCBs become affordable (relatively speaking) a year or two after release.
Whether I build it or not, you'll be fine as long as the supergun has RGB scart output and your TV supports it. Actually, most power supplies are switchable to 220v, so you may not even need a stepdown converter.Quote:
If I ever get the chance to obtain one of Matt's work of arts should I just fork out the money or is it anything special outside of power stepdown converters I need to know?
- - - - - - - -
On a side note, even the former Iraqi regime apparently liked playing JAMMA boards:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...10/wirq110.xml
Can you imagine it? "UN inspectors have been told that President Hussein is just trying to enjoy a perfect game of Bust-A-Move".
Around $300? Ok, a bit outta my league for now.
If space isn't an issue...just get a cab.
Even a candy cab can be had for $300 or less. Shipping though, that's another thing all together.
My Neo cab cost more to ship than I paid for it, but that's part of the nature of the beast.
Buddy of mine actually has a cab that he'd probably give you if you asked nicely and didn't mind driving to Atlanta to pick it up.
Good cab:
http://www.hardmvs.com/html/iremCabinet.htm
I'm not promising you anything, but he mentioned that he wanted to get rid of it. And if you mention my name...all the better.
But really, if you can spare the space (they're not THAT big), just getting any old JAMMA cab is so very rewarding and you can play your games on that.
While I much appriciate the offer of sorts, my parents would absolutly kill me if I put a cabinet in my room (I'm only 18, still living at home). Perhaps someday I'll have a cabinet of my own...Quote:
Originally Posted by Blaine
Good thing I wasn't drinking when I read that.Quote:
Originally Posted by padman
[QUOTE=Blaine]
Buddy of mine actually has a cab that he'd probably give you if you asked nicely and didn't mind driving to Atlanta to pick it up.
[QUOTE]
Give... as in free?
If I can fit it in my Rav 4 I will totally go pick it up.
I want that cab....Quote:
Originally Posted by Blaine
Damn being broke :D
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt
I really don't know what do you mean. If the game's emulation is in a perfect status, playing it is no different than playing the PCB. You can use some graphic modes that give a VERY similar image presentation to the RGB, 15Hz monitors'. A lot better to the one you can get with any S-Video.
MAME doesn't give you any "anti-aliased, fuzzy picture" if you don't want to. Just don't use any filter and enable 50% scanlines; or even, better, buy a 15Hz-compatible video-card and use your low-res, RGB monitor with the emulator running in actual low resolutions.
It's true that many games lack correct emulation, but CP-S II ones (as CP-S or Neo-Geo ones) have almost perfect emulation now. If Dimahoo doesn't run properly on MAME, try Nebula or Final Burn Alpha (don't forget to disable any filter and enable 50% scanlines). If you're accustomed to a real RGB image (not many people are) you'll be pleased with the result. Tell me your impressions after you check it.
As I've said before (and will continue to say whenever I get the chance :) ), if you are playing MAME you need an Arcade VGA card (about $100). I think some company called Ultimarc makes them. Filtering on a large VGA monitor with a standard graphics card might look alright-ish, but it looks nothing at all like the original PCB. The Arcade VGA card puts out the exact same RGB signal at the exact same scan rate and resolution that the orriginal PCB did, right out of your PC. Plug your PC into a real arcade monitor using a computer powerful enough to emulate properly, and MAME looks 100% real. Swear to God. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt
Plus, you can finally play NES games in RGB (again, same scan rate and resolution as the real thing) without the PC10 graphics processor mod.
Meh. Spending a bunch of money so that Irori's hair color is just right = not worth it.
Don't let Iori hear you say that...Quote:
Originally Posted by OmniGear
I won't, just as long you don't tell Irori that I couldn't care less about her hair color. I just want to find out how she flies. And then have sex with her.
First mention (and pic) I saw of a Super Gun was in the letters section of EGM issue 30, Jan 92. They advised people against buying one because of all the bootleg SF2 PCBs floating around.
And let me say again that MAME (or any current arcade emu) does not filter if you don't want it to do even with a standard graphic card and VGA monitor. There is a graphic mode which simulates almost perfectly the picture quality of an RGB, low res monitor. It's called "50% scanlines".Quote:
Originally Posted by Chibi Nappa
Let the "emu on VGA = filtering" myth die once and for all.
Even with all "filtering" turned off, it is still upscanning to display in VGA. It has to. No way around that. And 50% scanlines are not exactly right.... A low res RGB monitor doesn't really look like that. Not to mention that the monitor phosphors on an arcade monitor are a totally different shape and size than a VGA monitor. :p
Doh! Yes, looks like I forgot about MAME's video options :sweat:. You're right - emulators w/o filters +scanlines do look very good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Recap & Chibi
Yes, they're smaller, crisper, and look a whole lot better :). It would be a better world if arcade monitors had phosphors like that!Quote:
Originally Posted by Chibi Nappa
Theoretically, yes. However, even perfect emulation still doesn't change the fact that the game is running on software simulation of its native hardware, as opposed to a chunk of silicon with chips stuck in it. There will always be differences in how the game runs, even though they're very small.Quote:
Originally Posted by Recap
It's not something that's easy to explain, especially if you haven't played a lot of real PCBs to compare. Regardless of how they look, emulated games just don't "feel" right compared with the originals. Padman's transvestite quote sums it up very well. Or, think of low-fat salad dressing vs regular.
Likewise, the graphical differences I was referring to have to do with sprite rendering, flicker, etc - not the natural differences between monitor types. They'd still be there if you were using a 15khz monitor.
Of course, if you don't have an original to compare it to, an emulated game ought to do the job just fine. Just because it isn't exactly the same doesn't always mean it's bad, just different. And PCB's don't support save states ;)
Oh, the emulation was very good, and I'm sure it would have looked almost perfect had I been using the proper video mode. It's just that, in this case, the control was very different from the original. If I hadn't just been playing the arcade version for a long time, I probably would have lasted better.Quote:
It's true that many games lack correct emulation, but CP-S II ones (as CP-S or Neo-Geo ones) have almost perfect emulation now. If Dimahoo doesn't run properly on MAME, try Nebula or Final Burn Alpha (don't forget to disable any filter and enable 50% scanlines). If you're accustomed to a real RGB image (not many people are) you'll be pleased with the result. Tell me your impressions after you check it.