Oh boy: Rumsfeld: Criticism of Bush Strengthens U.S. Foes

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Originally Posted by BoBVila

Good argument there. I see Almaci has taught you well. Liberals would do better if you took a gun, pointed it to your head, and pulled the trigger.

Oh wait...I don't resort to such stuff in arguments. You see, when you start something, BRING IT or SHUT UP. Too much talk and not enough walk on the internet from twerps like yourself.

edit: Just as I thought. I looked through all your posts, and saw something but putting words in other people's mouths (like what Almaci is doing with me now--another childish tactic), badmouthing others, telling people to go away...Uh huh. Maybe you putting that gun to your head isn't so bad after all.

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How long have you been at TNL? Yeah, not long. Now I'm not claiming to be any sort of TNL head honcho, but you know nothing of me. Since your argument consists of...oh yeah, you don't have one. So shut up or say something worth discussing. It seems to me that you have no other intention other than rousing people like a troll.

And from your quaint little posts of nonsense, it seems that you are no better than the way you describe me. I doubt you've looked through all my posts because if you had, you'll notice that I didn't really state any argument, only an observation backed by factual events. Then I went into my usual routine with Carter, which we've done countless other times.

You on the other hand made no coherent attempt to debate anything other than your "I'm with Carter" post. Then you say that killing more Palestinians would "smarten [them] up". What an evil and inhumane thing to say, but I wouldn't expect less from someone with such a penchant for mindless banter. It would be wise to let Carter make all of your opinions from now on because at least he is intelligent and has something to say when he posts.

Lastly, I have no qualms about using the ignore feature which I will promptly use on you if you continue to be such a nuisance. Grow up and start treating these TNL debates as what they really are: meaningless little arguments meant only to stir thought and debate.

SC

"And from your quaint little posts of nonsense, it seems that you are no better than the way you describe me."

Duh? When you don't have an argument, there is nothing to argue with. Are you this stupid normally or what?

"It would be wise to let Carter make all of your opinions from now on because at least he is intelligent and has something to say when he posts."

I'll decide on my own, thanks. Just a few posts ago, you were lambasting him though with your typical crap. So which one is it, moron? Here's what you said: "And trying to put down my perspective with mindless banter makes you look even more like a conservative phony, as it has done so many other times in the past."

Wow, sounds like typical SPACE COWBOY! MINDLESS BANTER, MINDLESS BANTER, MINDLESS BANTER

You need to get some more phrases because these are growing stale.oh and, mindless banter-y banter banter or something

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Originally Posted by BoBVila

I'll decide on my own, thanks. Just a few posts ago, you were lambasting him though with your typical crap. So which one is it, moron? Here's what you said: "And trying to put down my perspective with mindless banter makes you look even more like a conservative phony, as it has done so many other times in the past."

Wow, sounds like typical SPACE COWBOY! MINDLESS BANTER, MINDLESS BANTER, MINDLESS BANTER

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Well, It's difficult to explain my thing with Carter. On one end we both respect each other, but on the other we'll go at each other at the drop of a hat. And don't say typical space cowboy. You don't know me well enough to say typical to anything about me. But I digress, I've heard enough pointless comments from you. When you having something interesting to say without attacking someone, let me know. Then maybe I'll discuss things with you.

SC

I saw that response from two miles away.

Come on, man. You're better than that.....right? I know you well enough to figure out what you're going to say. I don't call people I respect "phony", nor do I make posts like the one you made after that. So stop being such a lying twerp.

"When you having something interesting to say without attacking someone, let me know"

Take your own advice.

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Originally Posted by BoBVila

I saw that response from two miles away.

Come on, man. You're better than that.....right? I know you well enough to figure out what you're going to say. I don't call people I respect "phony", nor do I make posts like the one you made after that. So stop being such a lying twerp.

Take your own advice.

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Like I said it's difficult to explain my thing with Carter. Ask him and he'll tell you the same. That way it'll come from another conservative so you can listen, right? :rolleyes:

How's this for debate: I think Israel is a made-up country that has no right to exist in the first place. Sharon's "chosen people" views reek of Nazi Germany. With my tax dollars going to fund the merciless apartheid of Palestinians, I feel cheated that once again my country is supporting terrorism instead of trying to fight it. Saying Arafat is a terrorist is an unclaimed assumption, whereas Sharon has documented cases of military indiscretions. Whether Arafat has terrorists connections is irrelevant. He's not the one with nuclear weapons and U.S. backing.

Now if you can provide some sort of logical answer then I'll listen. Otherwise, you're going on the ignore list, noob.

SC

Logical answer to what? Your first three sentences aren't facts; they're your views. As for me, Israel seems to have a better idea of where violent Hamas members are than Arafat does. Do you actually believe that? If you're in power and aren't taking action, that makes you guilty. That's the way this world works. Israel seems to be doing more to keep peace than Palestine. Yes, innocents are being killed, but at least THEY can weed out some bad seeds. If you have any better ideas, then speak up. noob

"Whether Arafat has terrorists connections is irrelevant. He's not the one with nuclear weapons and U.S. backing. "

The hell it is irrelevant. If you're going to call Sharon on being a terrorist, then it works both ways. Some of you guys just like to see yourself type or something. I don't care if all he had were some sharp dining forks.

edit: I was waiting for Mr. Cowboy to type something. He was sitting here for all this time. Oh well, now I go nite nite ;o

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Originally Posted by BoBVila

Logical answer to what? Your first three sentences aren't facts; they're your views. As for me, Israel seems to have a better idea of where violent Hamas members are than Arafat does. Do you actually believe that? If you're in power and aren't taking action, that makes you guilty. That's the way this world works. Israel seems to be doing more to keep peace than Palestine. Yes, innocents are being killed, but at least THEY can weed out some bad seeds. If you have any better ideas, then speak up. noob

"Whether Arafat has terrorists connections is irrelevant. He's not the one with nuclear weapons and U.S. backing. "

The hell it is irrelevant. If you're going to call Sharon on being a terrorist, then it works both ways. Some of you guys just like to see yourself type or something. I don't care if all he had were some sharp dining forks.

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:lol: Can I ask how old you are? The first three sentences are my opinions as I clarified in the first sentence. But all three are backed by facts: Israel was created on May 14, 1948 by the British government; Sharon has made comments about Jews being the "Chosen People" several times; the U.S. gives Israel over $3 Billion annually. All facts.

Now tell me how launching missiles and leading military raids is helping peace? Cuz I'd like to know. And isn't your plan so great. Kill everyone so you'll get the bad guys guaranteed. Only Nazi's and the Bush administration think like that. How can you equate someone who has to tie a bomb to his chest just to get back at 10 people vs. someone who can push a button and wipe out and entire group of people? That's just dumb. I'm not supported the suicide bombers, but I don't see how that's equal to launching a nuclear weapon.

Yes I do have an idea that is far better than what you prescribe:The only definitive answer to Palestine was given by Jawaharlal Nehru in 1947: a federal democratic state with autonomous Jewish and Arab units, citizens together of a common Semitic nation founded on the bedrock of secularism.

Since you obviously know nothing of the history of this fight, I'll give you a brief explanation so you can understand what everyone is talking about:
Ariel Sharon began his career in 1946-47 with one of the Zionist terrorist gangs who flung themselves against the British mandate. He was then involved in the war of 1948, when lakhs of innocent Palestinians, whose only fault was that they were not Jewish, were driven like cattle from their homes, massacred in the thousands, rendered refugees in their own land. While it was proximately the Germans under Hitler who created the “Jewish problem”, it was the civilisational tussle between European Christendom and the Jewish community — immortalised in Shakespeare’s The Merchant of Venice — which found a solution to the Jewish diaspora by returning them to where they had emerged from 2000 years earlier. The one time the Jews suffered no discrimination in Europe was under Arab rule in the Empire of Andalus, stretching through much of the Iberian peninsula (present day Spain and Portugal) from the 7th to the 12th centuries. It is, therefore, bitter irony that it is the Arabs who have had to pay the price of absorbing the Jewish exodus from European and American Christendom.

For men like Ariel Sharon, the innocence of the Palestinian Arabs — Muslim, Christian and Jewish — is not germane to the issue. Their issue is summed up in the notorious Zionist slogan: “A Land without People for a People without Land”, thus rendering as non-people the million indigenous people of Palestine. This made it easy to provide the ethical justification, dressed up in revanchist myth and theological mumbo-jumbo for cleansing and killing the natives to make way for the chosen people of a new nation. The only parallel in history to the establishment of Israel is the genocide and rapine which robbed the American Indians of their country to set up the United States of America — which is, of course, why the US sees nothing much wrong in the slum clearance of Palestinian Arab settlements for the blooming of the garden state of Israel. The little Palestinian village of Deir Yassin has since April 1948 remained the symbol of the terrifying atrocities to which humble village folk were subjected so that men like Ariel Sharon could rule the land.


Sharon went on to military glory by burning down 45 houses and brutally killing 69 blameless villagers, half of them women and children, at Qibya in 1953. There followed in 1982 the horror and bestiality of the mass murders in the Palestinian refugee camps of Sabra and Shatila masterminded by Ariel Sharon: God Cried is the title of the most moving account of that savagery. The latest abomination in the long line of inhuman viciousness which has traced Sharon’s rise to the top was the bloody scythe with which he harvested uncounted thousands of ordinary Palestinians, including wailing women and new-born babes, in the Occupied Palestinian town of Jenin in 2002.

Yeah it's "old news", but if a dumbass like yourself can learn anything it's that the past is the window to the future. Now go google those words Almaci posted so you can participate like an adult. Noob :lol: Can't even get that right can you?

SC

It's great to see, that this whole subject has degraded to a bunch of guys bitch slapping eachother. :xx:



So what, if weapons of mass destruction have'nt been found. Nobody ever found Jimmy Hoffa's body either. Iraq is one large desert, it's quite easy to bury something in such a large body of sand. The weapons are obviously avialable, Saddam killed about 180,000 kurds with the damn things.


Every country's citizen, is going to have a different view on this whole subject. Read books like George Orwell's 1984 and Animal Farm and you'll notice how the masses can be manipulated by the few.


Perhaps the US jumped in quicker than some people would like, but the UN has been subjected to constant BS from Saddam, when it came to inspections, all the way back to the early 90's. Obviously, the guy had something to hide.


The Middle East has been a religious battle field, for as long as written history. No one person, or country is going to change that, but when terrorist activities are being presented in the US, it's either put up with it, or do something about it. Sure Bush could have taken different routes in getting the problem solved, but how long would it have taken, for anything to be resolved? Ask anyone that lives in NYC, if they think that the war is wrong and you'd be hard pressed to find someone that thinks otherwise.

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Originally Posted by Almaci

Hahaha ok, whatever dude.

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The fact remains that you insulted him personally. It's one thing to let fly with the "stupid" and the "jerk" stuff, but you said that Stone is smarter than he is. That's a rather insensitive thing to say and it doesn't belong in any sort of practical debate. If we were having a stupid argument with no basis or form, and the goal was to demean someone, then you'd be right on target. Your sentence could have been: "As for killing him; despite the hatred Stone must no doubt feel in his heart for Arafat he would never say that." Which you could have then followed with your reasons for believing it's a bad idea to assassinate Arafat.

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Originally Posted by voltz

Seeing how the people stand by Arafat, I doubt having him assasinated is going to make things any better. He does need to be replaced however, considering he has ties with Al-Quida and the Hamas, only problem is how are we supposed to remove him without any further backlash from the public?

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I agree. I don't know about ties to Al-Qaeda, but isn't Hamas basically just as bad?

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Originally Posted by Lots O' People

(From Almaci: "Oh and BoB so being responsible for the deaths of thousands of innocent people trough military and/or terrorist acts is perfectly ok since hey its old news and happened in the past?")

(From BoBVila: And what is Arafat doing right NOW? Secondly, you conveniently ignore the complete timeline of such events you continually want to point to. I hope you're smarter than this. But considering this comes from someone who sees an article "Wolfowitz admits war was about oil" and rubs it all over, without a clue as to what was actually said...)

(From Almaci: Dude I explained mine and you dismissed it as old stuff, yourse is a total fabrication.
As for that one thread 1 out of a few hundred I linked to(one wich i apologised for as well) isnt a bad track record id say, certainly much better then yourse and what youre exhibiting in this thread.)

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This argument was silly - BoB, you should have answered his question directly, it was actually a good question. But then Almaci confused BoB's post with voltz's and chaos ensued.

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Originally Posted by BoBVila

Good argument there. I see Almaci has taught you well. Liberals would do better if you took a gun, pointed it to your head, and pulled the trigger.

Oh wait...I don't resort to such stuff in arguments. You see, when you start something, BRING IT or SHUT UP. Too much talk and not enough walk on the internet from twerps like yourself.

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Well... but you did resort to such stuff with insults and name-calling. If you didn't resort to such stuff you wouldn't have said it in the first place and you wouldn't have then said:

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edit: Just as I thought. I looked through all your posts, and saw something but putting words in other people's mouths (like what Almaci is doing with me now--another childish tactic), badmouthing others, telling people to go away...Uh huh. Maybe you putting that gun to your head isn't so bad after all.

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Meh.

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Originally Posted by spacecowboy

You on the other hand made no coherent attempt to debate anything other than your "I'm with Carter" post. Then you say that killing more Palestinians would "smarten [them] up". What an evil and inhumane thing to say, but I wouldn't expect less from someone with such a penchant for mindless banter. It would be wise to let Carter make all of your opinions from now on because at least he is intelligent and has something to say when he posts.

Lastly, I have no qualms about using the ignore feature which I will promptly use on you if you continue to be such a nuisance. Grow up and start treating these TNL debates as what they really are: meaningless little arguments meant only to stir thought and debate.

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A lot of people take arguments like this as an affront to their reputation or honor or something like that. As in, "Man, if I don't refute what so-and-so says about that, I'm gonna lose face," or something to that effect. Too many people take it personally. If I were to state that Bush snorted cocaine off a hooker's ass then drank five beers and drove around Texas in his raised-up Bronco running over pedestrians (obviously false) or that Sharon is more of a terrorist than Arafat (for the record, I think they're both pretty bad), and I was proven wrong on both counts? Whatever, I was wrong. Most people can't accept that, though. "Your mom is a whore and she looks like the bastard child of Wayne Brady and Melissa Rivers."

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Originally Posted by spacecowboy

Lots of stuff about Ariel Sharon. Look at the post yourself, you lazy bastard!

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http://www.un.org/Depts/dpa/ngo/history.html

The way I've come to understand the whole Israel/Palestine situation is this: Palestine was never really a state. Israel was one of the two partitions of the territory which was Palestine in the Ottoman empire. Israel was created. The Jewish and Arab parts fought, much like now, and that was that.

I'm on the side of Israel for being our ally and whatnot, but this matter should be decided by the U.N., whose indecision here has cost us the lives of innocent people in Israel and Palestine. Set the boundaries for the two states and if more fighting occurs, we need to assemble a world force to police these people. The two have clearly demonstrated that they are not willing to police themselves, so we're going to have to hold their hands. Then we make the people remove Arafat and Sharon and elect people who have no ties to the history of this crap. When I say "We", I don't just mean the U.S. Innocent people are dieing there, the world needs to help out with this.

But that's just my distorted view. :)

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Originally Posted by gamevet

It's great to see, that this whole subject has degraded to a bunch of guys bitch slapping eachother. :xx:



So what, if weapons of mass destruction have'nt been found. Nobody ever found Jimmy Hoffa's body either. Iraq is one large desert, it's quite easy to bury something in such a large body of sand. The weapons are obviously avialable, Saddam killed about 180,000 kurds with the damn things.


Every country's citizen, is going to have a different view on this whole subject. Read books like George Orwell's 1984 and Animal Farm and you'll notice how the masses can be manipulated by the few.


Perhaps the US jumped in quicker than some people would like, but the UN has been subjected to constant BS from Saddam, when it came to inspections, all the way back to the early 90's. Obviously, the guy had something to hide.


The Middle East has been a religious battle field, for as long as written history. No one person, or country is going to change that, but when terrorist activities are being presented in the US, it's either put up with it, or do something about it. Sure Bush could have taken different routes in getting the problem solved, but how long would it have taken, for anything to be resolved? Ask anyone that lives in NYC, if they think that the war is wrong and you'd be hard pressed to find someone that thinks otherwise.

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Good post! Though, looking back on Iraq, we definitely should have waited longer to solidify our plans.

Gamevet thing is when he used them weapons in the 80s Rumsfeld and the CIA came to Saddam´s defense and claimed it was Iran who had actually gassed its own soldiers and the people inside Iraq who were sympathetic to Iran.
Pretty crazy innit?

And plenty of people have come forward and said that Iraq since inspectors left in 98(they left, Saddam didnt throw em out) had verry little if any capabilities left.
A decade of sanctions did its work at a terrible human cost it seems but as many impartial people were saying it now seems that yes Iraq was mostly WMD free.

Caliander, nice post.

Just this tough, the UN is NOT indescisive with regards to the Israel/Palestine situation.

Israel is in direct violation of dozens of resolutions(check em up yerself, im too lazy to give ya the UN links right now) with regards to the settlements, treatment of Palestines, stealing of land, areas under ocupation etcetera etcetera.
The reason nothing happens tough is becouse the US Veto´s every single initiative with regards to Israel.
so yeah the entire world agrees and often the US as well but they Veto any sanctions against Israel anyway.