Xbox Live update deletes files off your hard drive.

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16 Sep 2003, 02:14 PM
Regus

Xbox Live update deletes files off your hard drive.

Quote:

The Unwanted Online Update

Today, by mistake, I selected the menu item "XBOX LIVE" again, and I was surprised to see a screen that said "Xbox Live is updating your system. Please don't turn off your Xbox console." - I never asked Microsoft do do any update, as I was very content with my Xbox as it was, and there was no warning screen of any kind, it just started updating the second I selected "XBOX LIVE". Fearing that turning off my Xbox could harm my data stored on the hard drive, I followed the onscreen orders, waiting for the update to be finished.
My Data was Gone!

About five minutes later, the update was complete. I used MechAssault to run Linux again to check whether my files were still intact. So I saw that Microsoft has deleted some data from my Xbox hard disk! Some files and directories on C: had been replaced, and the files I stored in these directories had been deleted!

Click the link for the full story:
http://xbox-linux.sourceforge.net/do...otedelete.html

Comments?
16 Sep 2003, 02:19 PM
epmode

i don't understand why he had his xbox properly connected to the internet if he was using it to run linux. stupid. whether it's legal or not, it's obvious that microsoft will try whatever they can to stop this sort of thing.
16 Sep 2003, 02:21 PM
johnk_

was his modchip on or off when he did the update?
16 Sep 2003, 02:22 PM
Shin Johnpv

if you read the article his Xbox isnt modded

he used the Mechassualt trick to load linux onto it
16 Sep 2003, 02:27 PM
dog$

Online gaming is a crock.
16 Sep 2003, 02:37 PM
Chux

This whole thing is causing a big stink over at xbox-scene.com Nearly daily they have another article about it.
16 Sep 2003, 02:40 PM
Cheebs

What is this Mechassault trick?
16 Sep 2003, 02:50 PM
Regus

Quote:

Microsoft spies on Xbox gamers. All Xbox Live users, even if they don't use any "Live" content, as well as all other users that have set up their networking correctly, are automatically registered at Microsoft with their serial number each time they start SplinterCell (and possibly other games), without being asked.

http://xbox-linux.sourceforge.net/do...honeshome.html

Interesting.
16 Sep 2003, 03:00 PM
Werewolf

What is the advantage of having Linux on the XBOX, please enlighten me because frankly I don't get it :rolleyes:

Let's see, he was using XBOX Live services without signing up for XBOX Live and he was running Linux on his XBOX that the system wasn't intended to use... please if this happens to someone who isn't hacking their XBOX then I'm interested, so who cares about this idiot's files :p
16 Sep 2003, 03:08 PM
Mzo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Werewolf

Let's see, he was using XBOX Live services without signing up for XBOX Live and he was running Linux on his XBOX that the system wasn't intended to use... please if this happens to someone who isn't hacking their XBOX then I'm interested, so who cares about this idiot's files

It's another chance to bitch about Microsoft, duh.
16 Sep 2003, 03:21 PM
Wildkat

The topic should be, "Xbox live update deletes non-microsoft files off hard drive"

I know the consipracy theroist love this sort of thing, and its some big evil plot by microsoft to kill more puppies or something, but lets look at it this way.

1) He was using his Xbox in a way that is outside microsoft's original design. The update did change things to improve the software and MS would have never even bothered to check to see if anyone who altered the OS would be effected.

2) He had it connected to and setup for the internet but never subscribed to Xbox live.

3) there are plenty of non-ms dashboards for the console if he doesnt wish MS to have any control over his dashboard (which I do believe they state they have the right to in the EULA)

Christ, bash MS for thier poor thier security updates, bash them for Pladium, bash them for the insane prices on office, but please, the rest of the world is tired of hearing about every little stupid thing they have ever done.
16 Sep 2003, 03:24 PM
Shin Johnpv

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mzo

It's another chance to bitch about Microsoft, duh.

i think its less about bitching about Microsoft and more about them loading files and updating things on your Machine with out asking you

atleast thats how i feel about it

if he was asked if he wanted to update and they were erased well then id say HA! sucks for him

but since he wasnt even given the choice i say thats pretty lame

i think the fact that as a user weve paid for the Xbox and its now ours we should have the right to decided what gets loaded file wise onto our system
16 Sep 2003, 03:30 PM
Captain Vegetable

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shin Johnpv

i think the fact that as a user weve paid for the Xbox and its now ours we should have the right to decided what gets loaded file wise onto our system

I agree. But the dude could have been a bit more intelligent about it.

If you want to mod your XBOX, fine. Do it. But don't go whining like a little bitch when you discover that the company who built the hardware and intendid it be used for a specific task, other than what you're using it for, and who has legal access through the phone-lines to your system and it's contents, decides to force themselves upon you.

MS: 1, Whiney bitch hackerz: 0
16 Sep 2003, 04:29 PM
Shin Johnpv

this is true he should have been smarter

im more just saying that its shitty that you click on Xbox live and it updates with out asking you
16 Sep 2003, 04:40 PM
Tain

Alright...

Note to self: No Xbox Live. Ever.

*goes back to playing Sam & Max, DoDonPachi, and River City Ransom on his Xbox.*
16 Sep 2003, 04:50 PM
Chux

I'm not having a problem with mine....
Hell, this is why SWITCHES are installed. Even then, you can make backups if you really need to.
16 Sep 2003, 05:00 PM
johnk_

isn't there some kind of law that makes it illegal for a person or corporation to access and change the contents of your computer's hdd without your consent?

shouldn't the same hold true for the xbox?

the only other thing i can think of that accesses and changes contents on your hdd w/o your permission is a virus.
16 Sep 2003, 05:02 PM
Dyne

funny i tried updating my bro's xbox over the weekend and it would get halfway done and then say the service was down. and if this guy was as much into the "scene" as it seems he would have known full well that a live update.....especially one that updates the fucking DASHBOARD, would do something like this. fuckin moron.
16 Sep 2003, 05:18 PM
voltz

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnk_

isn't there some kind of law that makes it illegal for a person or corporation to access and change the contents of your computer's hdd without your consent?

It is, reguardless of the xbox being Microsoft's property. Even if they say they have the right to upon their live user agreement, they must notify of system or hardware updates while promising not to change or alter personal settings. What they did is known as "hijacking" and they are clearly on grounds for a lawsuit.

They have to respect users just like they do their windows supporters, if they spy, or alter a user's PC, it's invasion of privacy. Being a console format doesn't make that any different, even if they think otherwise.
16 Sep 2003, 05:20 PM
Keres

Quote:

I do not feel that what I did was unlawful, because the Xbox is my property, and I am free to do anything I want with it.

I wonder if that excuse works for speeding, since you own the car you're speeding in.
16 Sep 2003, 05:37 PM
Shin Johnpv

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keres

I wonder if that excuse works for speeding, since you own the car you're speeding in.

except you dont own the roads your driving on

thats the difference

the state owns the roads

he owns his Xbox, his TV, all the wiring, his computer
16 Sep 2003, 06:08 PM
Keres

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shin Johnpv

except you dont own the roads your driving on

thats the difference

the state owns the roads

he owns his Xbox, his TV, all the wiring, his computer

Would that make it ok to make 3 copies of your authentic copy of Halo to play on a LAN with 4 modded Xboxs, as long as you own at least one copy of the game and the 4 systems?
16 Sep 2003, 06:12 PM
voltz

I think as long as you keep the copies, it's ok.
16 Sep 2003, 06:28 PM
Shin Johnpv

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keres

Would that make it ok to make 3 copies of your authentic copy of Halo to play on a LAN with 4 modded Xboxs, as long as you own at least one copy of the game and the 4 systems?

techincally as long as you arent giving those copies away to anyone else or selling them you can have 500,000 copies of halo if you want
16 Sep 2003, 06:31 PM
voltz

I thought MS wanted to run fees on lan-parties. isn't that what xbox centers are for?
16 Sep 2003, 06:57 PM
Keres

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shin Johnpv

techincally as long as you arent giving those copies away to anyone else or selling them you can have 500,000 copies of halo if you want

But others besides yourself would be benefiting from playing the copied games. After the LAN party you might say to a friend, "Thanks for joining us for some 16 player Halo. Here's one of the three copies of Halo I made, you can borrow it for a few weeks as long as you remember it's mine. After all, what's the difference between you playing it here and you playing it at your place?"

What were we talking about? Oh yeah, Linux on Xbox. :p Obviously people have different ways of seeing what should be allowed and what shouldn't. In the end, the lawyers win. :curse:
16 Sep 2003, 07:06 PM
Diff-chan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shin Johnpv

techincally as long as you arent giving those copies away to anyone else or selling them you can have 500,000 copies of halo if you want

Actually Im pretty sure that fair-use only allows one copy of said copyrighted work to be made for backup purposes only.

And like whoever said, if Microsoft fucks with your system and deletes Linux or whatever, tough shit. I mean, you know who you're dealing with - Microsoft is the company that is building Palladium, tried to get lists of what movies you were watching with Windows Media Player, and who knows what software you are running everytime you go to windowsupdate.com (even software not updated there). Are you really surprised this happened? If you are, you're an idiot. This is what you get when you deal with MS.

And, finally, Shin Johnpv, if you read the licenses that come with all the software and shit you buy, it says that you dont actually own the product, but you own a *license to use the product*. I don't like that myself, but hey thats how it is. It gives Microsoft the right to do all this shit (which I dont agree with either).
16 Sep 2003, 07:06 PM
Regus

Quote:

Originally Posted by Werewolf

What is the advantage of having Linux on the XBOX, please enlighten me because frankly I don't get it :rolleyes:

Quote:

Originally Posted by that guy's website

The version of Linux on the Xbox will have three purposes:

* A full Linux distribution with X-Window and KDE/Gnome turns the Xbox into a desktop computer. Using USB connector adaptors, standard PC components can be connected, such as keyboards, mice, printers, scanners and cameras. With a VGA converter, the Xbox can be connected to a standard PC monitor.

* The Linux kernel can be used as a base for stand alone applications, such as DivX, DVD and MP3 players, as well as emulators for classic consoles, which need not run on the standard Linux desktop and therefore start much faster. Hobbyists are not allowed to develop software on top of the original Xbox kernel, so the Linux kernel will give them this opportunity.

* Windows NT/2000 and other i386 operating systems can run inside of a Virtual Machine such as VMware or Plex86, which runs on top of the Linux kernel.
16 Sep 2003, 07:08 PM
voltz

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keres

What were we talking about? Oh yeah, Linux on Xbox. :p Obviously people have different ways of seeing what should be allowed and what shouldn't. In the end, the lawyers win. :curse:

In the end, it's always down to how much money you have. :cry:
16 Sep 2003, 07:30 PM
gameoverDude

I can see why Microsoft would monkey with your system- perhaps they want to forestall people cheating on XBL for one thing. Hardly a surprise there. Plus it's a control thing also.

Oh well, just go buy a 2nd Xbox for your online gaming- leaving the other one jacked out. Either that, or no XBL. Knowing's half the battle.
16 Sep 2003, 07:51 PM
voltz

Quote:

Originally Posted by diffusionx

And, finally, Shin Johnpv, if you read the licenses that come with all the software and shit you buy, it says that you dont actually own the product, but you own a *license to use the product*.

YOU MEAN I DON'T OWN MY XBOX!?? :eek:

*runs around screaming
16 Sep 2003, 08:20 PM
Diff-chan

Quote:

Originally Posted by voltz

YOU MEAN I DON'T OWN MY XBOX!?? :eek:

*runs around screaming

Hmm... its probably something like that you own the system, but Microsoft owns the right to the OS, BIOS, etc., which means that yes they can fuck with your system on their terms. Cause after all, a system is nothing without something to drive it.
16 Sep 2003, 08:27 PM
voltz

well, MS can't do squat if people decide to throw their terms out the window. :p

GO LINUX!
16 Sep 2003, 09:03 PM
sphere79

I was happy about the update coming out, knowing full well if my Xbox was modded there would be problems. And now when the system boots ( unfortunately not on my VGA box ) it automatically logs me into Live, lets others know I'm online and allows me to see who's online. Not to mention I can now chat from the desktop with up to 16 people, you no longer need to have the same games to chat with friends. Yea yea I know "we've been doing that with our PC's for years", bla bla bla. I game mostly on consoles nowadays, and I like the Xbox online experience - it's what I was hoping the Dreamcast would have been like online. And one good thing is there doesn't seem to be the cheating ( that I've seen / heard of ) going on that there sometimes is with PC games online.

P.S. - I heard that Microsoft embedded a tiny camera in the green jewel logo on the top of the system and BILL GATES himself can listen and watch us anytime he wants to - that's what Live is really for! In other news - Sony is most certainly NOT a "big", "evil" company - and Nintendo ALWAYS makes sound business decisions.
16 Sep 2003, 10:25 PM
voltz

Quote:

Originally Posted by sphere79

P.S. - I heard that Microsoft embedded a tiny camera in the green jewel logo on the top of the system and BILL GATES himself can listen and watch us anytime he wants to - that's what Live is really for! In other news - Sony is most certainly NOT a "big", "evil" company - and Nintendo ALWAYS makes sound business decisions.

8/10
16 Sep 2003, 10:37 PM
johnk_

XBL sucks at this point, anyway..

either don't connect your XB to your LAN, or install a modchip that you can disable whenever..

and for fuck's sake, if you have the exploit on your hdd and try to go on XBL, of course MS is going to fuck you over... i didn't read the article so i missed that part, but jesus, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that one out.
17 Sep 2003, 02:15 AM
Melf

Excatly, johnk. The Xbox may be his but he seems to be forgetting the fact that he set up his Xbox to connect to the internet in a fashion not intended by the manufacturer. How can people bitch about MS altering or deleting their files when they're trying to play Live for free?

"Oh gee, my modded, alterted, warranty-voided Xbox has been tampered with by a service I'm using illegally." Damn you MS!! :rolleyes:
17 Sep 2003, 02:49 AM
Regus

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melf

How can people bitch about MS altering or deleting their files when they're trying to play Live for free?"

Oh gee, my modded, alterted, warranty-voided Xbox has been tampered with by a service I'm using illegally." Damn you MS!! :rolleyes:

He wasn't trying to gain access to Live with out paying.
Is that even possible?

I don't think some of you guys are reading the guy's page. He's pissed because Microsoft covertly forced the update on him, he didn't ask for it, nor was he informed that such an upgrade was to take place. He just clicked on a button by accident, and bam, all the files that he put on his hard drive were gone.
17 Sep 2003, 02:49 AM
Chux

More or less, Melf hit it. Other OS's don't interest me, because frankly I don't have a need for them. DosXbox is interesting though...
17 Sep 2003, 03:04 AM
Melf

How could the update be downloaded if he wasn't connected to Live?
17 Sep 2003, 03:16 AM
Regus

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melf

How could the update be downloaded if he wasn't connected to Live?

Quote:

The Xbox I am talking about has been bought in Germany in April 2002. It came with the three-item-Dashboard, because Xbox Live had not existed back then. Some months ago, I played "MechAssault" on this Xbox, so the game updated the system software on my hard disk - without asking, I might add, but that's not my point right now. Since then, I have a fourth item in the Dashboard, the Xbox's main menu: "XBOX LIVE". As there was no documentation about the new menu entry, so I selected it. The item releaved a menu which allowed me to enter my internet connection details - I did so, and I was able to "ping" my Xbox. Sure I know what Xbox Live is, but I only entered my network settings, I never signed up to Xbox Live or even selected "yes" or "agree" when some EULA was shown - because none was ever shown.

Quote:

Today, by mistake, I selected the menu item "XBOX LIVE" again, and I was surprised to see a screen that said "Xbox Live is updating your system. Please don't turn off your Xbox console." - I never asked Microsoft do do any update, as I was very content with my Xbox as it was, and there was no warning screen of any kind, it just started updating the second I selected "XBOX LIVE". Fearing that turning off my Xbox could harm my data stored on the hard drive, I followed the onscreen orders, waiting for the update to be finished.

I think his xbox was connected to the internet in the first place, because he was testing that certain games like Splinter Cell send MS your serial number even if you don't have Live.
17 Sep 2003, 03:17 AM
Chux

That's what it is. 2.0 phones home every single time you play a game that has ANY type of Live compatibility.
17 Sep 2003, 03:39 AM
raziel

Bah, fuck Xbox live. XBconnect ;)
17 Sep 2003, 03:43 AM
Mamoscott

Well this guy's experience pretty much sealed the deal on me never getting on Xbox Live. It also makes me very cautious of any future titles coming out for the system and whether or not they'll be trying to update my Xbox/Dashboard against my will. Maybe I should just wait and download pirated releases of Xbox games that have these "updates" removed.

Hey Microsoft: if I don't want anything to do with your Live service, leave me the fuck alone.
17 Sep 2003, 04:00 AM
Diff-chan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mamoscott

Well this guy's experience pretty much sealed the deal on me never getting on Xbox Live. It also makes me very cautious of any future titles coming out for the system and whether or not they'll be trying to update my Xbox/Dashboard against my will. Maybe I should just wait and download pirated releases of Xbox games that have these "updates" removed.

Hey Microsoft: if I don't want anything to do with your Live service, leave me the fuck alone.

I really dont think Xbox Live games are up your alley, considering how happy Kirby games designed for 5-year olds makes you. Unless, of course, they made a Kirby game for Xbox Live. But that seems unlikely considering the circumstances.
17 Sep 2003, 06:25 AM
Mamoscott

Quote:

Originally Posted by diffusionx

I really dont think Xbox Live games are up your alley, considering how happy Kirby games designed for 5-year olds makes you. Unless, of course, they made a Kirby game for Xbox Live. But that seems unlikely considering the circumstances.

Well since only shitty games seem to make use of Microsoft's network and I tend to dislike shitty games, I really don't think Xbox Live is up my alley either.
17 Sep 2003, 08:32 AM
youandwhosearmy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mamoscott

Well since only shitty games seem to make use of Microsoft's network and I tend to dislike shitty games, I really don't think Xbox Live is up my alley either.

Just wow.

And hey, if you mod your xbox and the online network checks your system and delete's a few files just be glad they didn't ban your serial number for it like they did to countless others who unknowingly signed on to Xbox live with a customized system.
17 Sep 2003, 09:10 AM
sphere79

Quote:

Originally Posted by youandwhosearmy

And hey, if you mod your xbox and the online network checks your system and delete's a few files just be glad they didn't ban your serial number for it like they did to countless others who unknowingly signed on to Xbox live with a customized system.

I would think most people capable of modding thier systems would be fully aware of the dangers it then opens you up to. Most in the "scene" knew damn well that the Live 2.0 update wasn't JUST going to be a Live update, it was going to try and fix some of the other loopholes too. And can't you be "unbanned" anyway?

As for only "shitty games" being on Live - while I'll admit there isn't an amazing dearth of games I personally like on Live right now there are PLENTY of good Live games. You've got the Sega Sports stuff, PSO, Wolfenstein, Moto GP ( 1 and 2 ), Midnight Club II, etc. etc. Sega GT online will only be $20 ( I'll definately get that ) and you've got Project Gotham 2, True Fantasy, Rallisport 2 ( which looks AWESOME ), Dead or Alive Online, etc. There's a whole bunch of stuff coming out that'll be sweet - well I'll be enjoying them anyway.
17 Sep 2003, 09:58 AM
Mzo

All I like so far is PSO and CvS2 <- *out of necessity*.

Everything else is better on the PC. But Live is a great service, and the update made it better. Just put some more good games up there, and I'll be even happier.

Kirby games are awesome, especially the NES (and now GBA) Kirby's Adventure. I don't see what liking a well-made game has to do with not liking mediocre online offerings.
17 Sep 2003, 10:26 AM
johnk_

Quote:

Originally Posted by sphere79

I would think most people capable of modding thier systems would be fully aware of the dangers it then opens you up to. Most in the "scene" knew damn well that the Live 2.0 update wasn't JUST going to be a Live update, it was going to try and fix some of the other loopholes too. And can't you be "unbanned" anyway?

As for only "shitty games" being on Live - while I'll admit there isn't an amazing dearth of games I personally like on Live right now there are PLENTY of good Live games. You've got the Sega Sports stuff, PSO, Wolfenstein, Moto GP ( 1 and 2 ), Midnight Club II, etc. etc. Sega GT online will only be $20 ( I'll definately get that ) and you've got Project Gotham 2, True Fantasy, Rallisport 2 ( which looks AWESOME ), Dead or Alive Online, etc. There's a whole bunch of stuff coming out that'll be sweet - well I'll be enjoying them anyway.

yea, i enjoy the occasional NFL 2K4 game on live, although i get my ass kicked horribly..
and i rented wolfenstein the other night to try out on live... let's just say i'm glad i didn't pay full price for it new.

I can't afford PSO, but i'm sick of it anyway..
i like the motoGP demo that came w/ XBL, but i wouldn't buy the full version just to play on live..

i will have to check out Midnight Club 2 though.. seems pretty cool.

but i have to say, most of what i'm waiting for in XBL is quite a ways off... namely halo 2.
17 Sep 2003, 10:57 AM
sphere79

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnk_

and i rented wolfenstein the other night to try out on live... let's just say i'm glad i didn't pay full price for it new.

That's like my favorite Live title - I paid $39 for it at Best Buy and imo it was worth every penny. You do have some laggy servers every now and then, but just last night I was playing an 8 on 8 game that was silky smooth. There's been 3 or 4 new map downloads since it's been released, and I like how the voice chat is used for teamwork instead of just trash talking. It's obviously not pushing the system graphically, but there are some huge maps. Obviously it's not for everybody.
17 Sep 2003, 04:17 PM
Melf

Quote:

Some months ago, I played "MechAssault" on this Xbox, so the game updated the system software on my hard disk - without asking, I might add, but that's not my point right now. Since then, I have a fourth item in the Dashboard, the Xbox's main menu: "XBOX LIVE".

That's it right there. It seems this genius failed to take into acount that Mech Assault is an Xbox Live title. What did he expect? It says right on the box that it uses Live. If you place a Live enabled game in the system, it's going to check to see if you have Live.

I'm sure many people who legally want to use Live would bitch if MA didn't take the steps necessary to tell them what was required to play it online. Does he buy PC games without reading the specs and bitch when his PC won't run them?
17 Sep 2003, 05:02 PM
Mamoscott

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mzo

All I like so far is PSO and CvS2 <- *out of necessity*.

Everything else is better on the PC. But Live is a great service, and the update made it better. Just put some more good games up there, and I'll be even happier.

This is exactly how I feel. The Live concept and service is pretty good (integrated voice chat, buddy lists, broadband only, etc), but Microsoft just hasn't gotten enough high quality, exclusive Live titles. If they can get some high profile titles on there that I can't play on my online via my PC or PS2, I'd be much more inclined to subscribe (and buy an unmodded Xbox for online play). Also, MS desperately needs to provide some dedicated servers for a lot of games on their network, and they're not doing so, which makes me wonder what all these subscription fees are paying for.

Hopefully, Crimson Skies and Kingdom Under Fire will turn out to be big incentives for subscribing to Live. Otherwise, people are going to be really bored waiting for Halo 2.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mzo

Kirby games are awesome, especially the NES (and now GBA) Kirby's Adventure. I don't see what liking a well-made game has to do with not liking mediocre online offerings.

I really don't have any idea what Kirby has to do with this thread either or why he brought him up. Kirby games are obviously for five year olds though, right?

New sig material. :D
17 Sep 2003, 05:56 PM
Regus

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melf

That's it right there. It seems this genius failed to take into acount that Mech Assault is an Xbox Live title. What did he expect? It says right on the box that it uses Live. If you place a Live enabled game in the system, it's going to check to see if you have Live.

I'm sure many people who legally want to use Live would bitch if MA didn't take the steps necessary to tell them what was required to play it online. Does he buy PC games without reading the specs and bitch when his PC won't run them?

I don't understand where you're going with this, especially with that PC analogy, since the guy doesn't have Live, nor is Live a requirement to play Mech Assault.

The guy bought Mech Assault, it put some stuff on his hard drive with out asking, which eventually lead to another unwanted sytem update and as a result he lost some stuff he put on the hard drive.

What does it matter if it's a Live enabled game or not? I could go out and buy Capcom vs SNK 2 or what ever right now, and never, ever go online with them, and therefore have no desire to update my sytem, since I like it just fine as it is. Just because the option to go online is there doesn't mean that it should be forced upon the user without their concent.

This is the underlying problem, not that some is hacked files are gone, but that they were removed through means which he never wanted on his system in the first place, which were secretly foisted upon him.
17 Sep 2003, 07:29 PM
Dyne

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regus

He wasn't trying to gain access to Live with out paying.
Is that even possible?

you can use xboxconnect which is free and say stuufu to live. anyway i believe you have to press a button to update live. i recall it saying the console will now connect to the server to update and it didnt start until i pressed a button. so all this "he didnt have a choice" is bullshit unless it's me thats wrong.
17 Sep 2003, 09:10 PM
Melf

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regus

I don't understand where you're going with this, especially with that PC analogy, since the guy doesn't have Live, nor is Live a requirement to play Mech Assault.

The guy bought Mech Assault, it put some stuff on his hard drive with out asking, which eventually lead to another unwanted sytem update and as a result he lost some stuff he put on the hard drive.

What I mean is that Mech Assault is going to put Live files on his HDD, being an online game. Live isn't required to play MA but should he have wanted to do so, his HDD would be updated for that purpose. Anyone who buys a Live enabled game for their Xbox shouldn't be surprised that said game places files on the HDD for online play.

Quote:

What does it matter if it's a Live enabled game or not? I could go out and buy Capcom vs SNK 2 or what ever right now, and never, ever go online with them, and therefore have no desire to update my sytem, since I like it just fine as it is. Just because the option to go online is there doesn't mean that it should be forced upon the user without their concent.

This is the underlying problem, not that some is hacked files are gone, but that they were removed through means which he never wanted on his system in the first place, which were secretly foisted upon him.

Here's the difference:

You can buy Capcom vs. SNK 2 and never go online. That's cool. I bet that it also puts some files on your HDD (probably in your system file) just in case you should want to go online with it. If you never go online, nothing happens.

No Live game, however, updates your dashboard. The only way for that to happen is for you to go online. This guy wasn't innocently playing offline and then one day whoosh! His HDD got updated. He had to have gone online one way or another for that to have happened.

*Edit*

Ok, I read the article again and I'm sure this guy is full of shit. Check it out:

Quote:

I live in the European Union and I never signed any End User License Agreement (EULA) or Terms Of Service (none come with the Xbox), thus I am not bound to any agreement or contract.

Did anyone here sign any contracts or user agreements when they purchased their Xbox, Live, or any games? I didn't. By purchasing and using the system, didn't he agree to the terms of service? I thought that was a given when you purchase the product.

Quote:

The Xbox I am talking about has been bought in Germany in April 2002. It came with the three-item-Dashboard, because Xbox Live had not existed back then. Some months ago, I played "MechAssault" on this Xbox, so the game updated the system software on my hard disk - without asking, I might add, but that's not my point right now. Since then, I have a fourth item in the Dashboard, the Xbox's main menu: "XBOX LIVE".

Has anyone else had a Live-enabled game automatically install Live on their system without buying a kit or connecting to the net? I didn't know MA had a full version of Live on it.

Quote:

As there was no documentation about the new menu entry, so I selected it. The item releaved a menu which allowed me to enter my internet connection details - I did so, and I was able to "ping" my Xbox. Sure I know what Xbox Live is, but I only entered my network settings, I never signed up to Xbox Live or even selected "yes" or "agree" when some EULA was shown - because none was ever shown.

So, after MA installed its full version of Live (must be a special PAL edition of MA), he went online.

Quote:

Today, by mistake, I selected the menu item "XBOX LIVE" again, and I was surprised to see a screen that said "Xbox Live is updating your system. Please don't turn off your Xbox console." - I never asked Microsoft do do any update, as I was very content with my Xbox as it was, and there was no warning screen of any kind, it just started updating the second I selected "XBOX LIVE". Fearing that turning off my Xbox could harm my data stored on the hard drive, I followed the onscreen orders, waiting for the update to be finished.

So he connected to Live. Given that Live was on his machine, it's no surprise that it was going to update itself. The Online Updater Application (there are 2 so far) was installed because the system detected he had Live on his HDD.

I don't know. He says he got Xbox Live from playing MA. That means he got Live for free, unless it was a bundle pack or something.
18 Sep 2003, 02:07 AM
Sl1p

He got what he deserved. He ran a shitty OS on a console made to play video games with a point of absolutely nothing besides being "1337".

Go cry me a river about it...and make sure you got some fat beats behind it.
18 Sep 2003, 03:01 AM
Mamoscott

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sl1p

He got what he deserved. He ran a shitty OS on a console made to play video games with a point of absolutely nothing besides being "1337".

Go cry me a river about it...and make sure you got some fat beats behind it.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

Someone named "Sl1p" making fun of someone for trying to be "1337"...the irony is delicious.
18 Sep 2003, 04:38 AM
Sl1p

Quote:

You have no idea what you're talking about.

I know exactly what I'm talking about. He got what he deserved.

Quote:

Someone named "Sl1p" making fun of someone for trying to be "1337"...the irony is delicious.

I don't see the irony. Explain.
18 Sep 2003, 05:53 AM
Mamoscott

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sl1p

I know exactly what I'm talking about. He got what he deserved.

No, you are clueless.

The point of running a "shitty OS" like Linux on a Xbox is that the emulators and programs written for Linux are legal and very easy to find online. Emulators and programs like the Xbox Media player that are created specifically for the Xbox are illegal, because people use Microsoft's SDK to write those programs. In addition to that, running Linux on the system gives you additional flexibility, and if you wanted, a compact, fairly powerful PC for under $300 after you factor in the cost of a mod chip.

For the record, I don't have Linux on any of my PCs or my Xbox, but I can see that there are reasons why people would want to put a different operating system on their Xbox consoles. It affords them more options and control, though I'm sure there are some people that just do it for the "l33t" factor or whatever.
18 Sep 2003, 06:16 AM
Sl1p

So you're saying that you can run emulators and have a shitty, mid-tier PC that runs linux. OH BOY!

These people have PC's. They should use them.

I just noticed this-

Quote:

Hey Microsoft: if I don't want anything to do with your Live service, leave me the fuck alone.

What in the hell are you babbling about? Just don't put your personal information onto your XBOX. They aren't shifting through your mail here. This is a common sense issue.
18 Sep 2003, 07:40 AM
Mamoscott

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sl1p

So you're saying that you can run emulators and have a shitty, mid-tier PC that runs linux. OH BOY!

These people have PC's. They should use them.

Try building a mid-tier PC with everything you need for a multimedia/emulation box for under $300. Also, make sure the PC you build has no problems emulating Xbox games either and that it supports all the video and audio outputs/modes that the Xbox is capable of. There's a reason people mod their Xbox consoles instead of buying another PC, jackass.

This is a common sense issue.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sl1p

What in the hell are you babbling about? Just don't put your personal information onto your XBOX. They aren't shifting through your mail here. This is a common sense issue.

Why do you think this thread exists? Microsoft is "sifting through your mail" so long as your console is hooked up to your internet connection. Do you even bother reading anything before spewing your garbage? The site linked in this thread's first post explains everthing in detail.

Quote:

If the Xbox's network connection is properly set up, some games, such as "Tom Clancy's SplinterCell" phone home, i.e. the Xbox establishes a connection to one of Microsoft's central computers, and transmits sensitive information such as the serial number of the Xbox. The user never gets asked or even informed about it.

Quote:

the Xbox transmits its serial number to Microsoft as soon as networking is set up, even if the user does not intend to join the Xbox Live service. A simple "ping" would have been enough to verify the settings are correct, transmitting the Xbox serial number is not necessary.

The Realm "PASSPORT.NET" and the automatically generated client name in Passport format might indicate that Xbox users that set up networking on their Xbox get registered at Microsoft's Passport service automatically.

Quote:

Even if you don't have subscribed to Xbox Live (and maybe being subject to the Xbox Live EULA), Microsoft may update the Dashboard software on your Xbox without notice.
If your network details are correctly set up, and you select the "XBOX LIVE" entry in your Xbox Dashboard or select anything that has to do with Xbox Live in a game (although you have not signed up to the Xbox Live service), the Dashboard starts "phoning home", retrieving the latest version and installing it - all you can do to cancel this is turn off your Xbox.
18 Sep 2003, 08:45 AM
youandwhosearmy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mamoscott

Try building a mid-tier PC with everything you need for a multimedia/emulation box for under $300. Also, make sure the PC you build has no problems emulating Xbox games either and that it supports all the video and audio outputs/modes that the Xbox is capable of. There's a reason people mod their Xbox consoles instead of buying another PC, jackass.

I would still think going through the trouble of doing this unless you are either a techwhore or a guy with way too much time on their hands nullifies the fact that it makes it next to impossible to go online with a modded system the way Live is set up. I mean I am sure there will be, or are ways to patch it so you could still go online if they did get your serial number to complain that they check up on a product that they released to make sure you aren't fucking with it in a way that could give you an advantage by using to go online (i.e. cheat codes, speed caps, etc...) or you simply didn't mod the hardware to play bootleg games (y'know cause that is illegal) is their thing to do,

and honestly, if your smart enough to have successfully modded your xbox, you should be smart enough to know Microsoft will find some way to fuck you with it.

Quote:

This is a common sense issue.

Yes but common sense would be buying a mid-tier computer tower with the basics you'd need to go online for 300-350 dollars.

Quote:

Why do you think this thread exists? Microsoft is "sifting through your mail" so long as your console is hooked up to your internet connection. Do you even bother reading anything before spewing your garbage? The site linked in this thread's first post explains everthing in detail.

Your right here, people need to read what the thread was about a bit more than they do.
18 Sep 2003, 09:52 AM
johnk_

i have to take back some of what i said before about XBL..
i rented Midnight Club II last night and it's pretty damn good...
didn't have a chance to try it on live yet, but it looks like i may have something worth playing on live, as long as the other people who play it aren't dicks.
18 Sep 2003, 10:24 AM
Regus

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melf

No Live game, however, updates your dashboard.

I don't know. He says he got Xbox Live from playing MA. That means he got Live for free...

A friend of mine has that "Xbox Live!" tab in his dashboard, even though he has never once gone online. And as far as I know, just because that tab is there doesn't mean you have Live.
18 Sep 2003, 10:30 AM
sphere79

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnk_

didn't have a chance to try it on live yet, but it looks like i may have something worth playing on live, as long as the other people who play it aren't dicks.

When I rented the game I noticed alot of "gansta" wanna-be "playas" types seemed to be attracted to that particular title. It's just not my kind of racing game, I'm looking forward to Sega GT ( for only $20! ) Rallisport 2 ( message to Sega - you put Sega Rally 3 and VF4 on the PS2 and I buy Rallisport 2 and Soul Caliber 2 instead, keep it up and you'll see less and less of my $$$ ) and Project Gotham. I wish they'd do another Nascar Heat with Live play, although I don't know if most players would have the patience to go the distance without crashing, etc.
18 Sep 2003, 10:52 AM
Chux

If you're going to mod your box, you're already doing somethin MS doesn't want you to do. Who the hell cares if you get linux on it, for "Legal" purposes. Myself I use the ones with the box SDK, if you want them, you can get them. ALSO if you can play the emu's you can BACK UP YOUR HARD DRIVE.

Since they didn't kill off his Eeprom, he didnt get banned from live, which doesn't matter since he says he didn't want to get on live anyway, so I don't see the problem there either. People need to be educated before they go and mod their box, then cry like a bitch with a skinned knee when something happens to it, and call conspiracy on MS' part.
18 Sep 2003, 11:49 AM
Melf

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regus

A friend of mine has that "Xbox Live!" tab in his dashboard, even though he has never once gone online. And as far as I know, just because that tab is there doesn't mean you have Live.

Have him check what the tab does. If it's the same Live tab everyone else has, he should be able to make a friends list, access his account information, etc. If he can do any of those things, he has Live. He must have gotten it somewhere and I've never heard of any game just putting on the machine.

I'm not 100% sure about any of that though and would like to know if it does indeed happen. I admit I didn't buy any Live-enabled games until after I got the starter kit, so I can't say for certain that no games install the tab on their own.

Even so, it would still make sense to me if they did because the games clearly state that they can be played online, so for them to get your system ready for it shouldn't be anything unusual.

I just don't buy the "one day I woke up and I had Live!" story.
18 Sep 2003, 12:05 PM
Adrian

Not really bothered about this, I use my Xbox to watch DivX movies and play CPS2 games (which is a lot better on a TV) rather than mediocre online games. I love the concept of Live but there are no must have games for it IMO (not saying they're rubbish, just nothing special). Fighters simply do not work online and C rated FPS on a pad are even worse.

Serves him right for buying Mech Assualt anyway, what was he thinking :p
18 Sep 2003, 12:16 PM
Regus

Some more info:

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=11548

Here's another reason why this guy had his xbox connected online, even though he doesn't use Live.

Anyway, I just watched some of the videos of this thing in action, and I am really impressed with what these guy have accomplished, especially how they were able to use Windows.
18 Sep 2003, 12:16 PM
sphere79

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melf

He must have gotten it somewhere and I've never heard of any game just putting on the machine.

My first Xbox never had the live tab until I installed it from the starter disc. My second one already had it from the moment it was shipped, and I'd assume that units being made now probably already have Live version 2.0 installed. And I think ANY Live game will install the Live component ( if you need it ) when you try to go online for the first time with it.
18 Sep 2003, 12:38 PM
Captain Vegetable

You are correct, sphere79.

On an unrelated note, Sl1p is worse than shidoshi...If I were that kind of person, I'd have them both on ignore.
18 Sep 2003, 01:14 PM
Dyne

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sidez

Serves him right for buying Mech Assualt anyway, what was he thinking :p

you dont even have to own mech assault (or 007 for that matter) to do the memory card mod.
18 Sep 2003, 04:35 PM
Mamoscott

Quote:

Originally Posted by youandwhosearmy

I would still think going through the trouble of doing this unless you are either a techwhore or a guy with way too much time on their hands nullifies the fact that it makes it next to impossible to go online with a modded system the way Live is set up.

No one is trying to go on Xbox Live with a modded system, because the only way to go on Live is to switch your mod chip off. And it's very easy to mod an Xbox if you're at all familiar with computers. It's a pre-built PC in a different case. How is modding an Xbox more trouble than ordering parts and building a new PC from scratch?

Quote:

Originally Posted by youandwhosearmy

Yes but common sense would be buying a mid-tier computer tower with the basics you'd need to go online for 300-350 dollars.

Like I already said, try building a mid-tier PC with everything you need for a multimedia/emulation box for under $300. Also, make sure the PC you build has no problems emulating Xbox games either and that it supports all the video and audio outputs/modes that the Xbox is capable of.

Fun fact: it isn't possible right now.
18 Sep 2003, 05:12 PM
Keres

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mamoscott

The point of running a "shitty OS" like Linux on a Xbox is that the emulators and programs written for Linux are legal and very easy to find online.

I highly doubt that people are running Linux on their Xbox simply so they can play legal emulators with illegal ROMs. Before we hear the "it's not illegal for you to have ROMs if you own the original games" cliché, remember that you don't actually own the original arcade games you're downloading.
18 Sep 2003, 05:14 PM
Dyne

there was a contest sporting a pretty big ransom to get linux running on the Xbox so theres one reason for it right there.

and i have absolutely no sympathy for this idiot. it was his fault he clicked on the live tab plain and simple. i mean you have got to be a moron if your going to tamper with some in a way your not "supposed" to in the first and then expect noting to happen when you click on something that directly connects you to MS. i mean he might as well marched right up to their corporate office and showed his system/hdd to all the employees there. and all those arguing "oh they're wrong for tampering with OUR property" just shut up. all of you probably don't have your system modded in the first place and have no reason to argue other than to spout off the usual MS conspiracy theories. grow up. they should have sent a fuckin bullet to his system like they do with cable boxes.
18 Sep 2003, 05:26 PM
Keres

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mamoscott

Like I already said, try building a mid-tier PC with everything you need for a multimedia/emulation box for under $300.

Here's the closest system you can get to an Xbox on Price Watch.

800mhz P3 chip = $50
P3 mobo = $20.90
ATX case = $24.99
20 gig drive = $39
64MB PC133 RAM = $9
GeForce 3 = $83
Soundcard = $10
Keyboard = $10
8X DVD-ROM = $29
USB gamepad = $10

Total = 285.89 (includes shipping)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mamoscott

Also, make sure the PC you build has no problems emulating Xbox games either and that it supports all the video and audio outputs/modes that the Xbox is capable of.

Show me an Xbox that prints up your documents, scans images, writes CDs, ect ect ect...

Wise man says "If you want to play Xbox games, buy an Xbox. If you want to run a computer, buy a computer."
18 Sep 2003, 05:43 PM
Dyne

you KNOW his argument will be that it still wont play Xbox games :)
18 Sep 2003, 06:50 PM
sphere79

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keres

Show me an Xbox that prints up your documents, scans images, writes CDs, ect ect ect...

UUhhhh.... I just read the other day how someone interfaced a CD burner and copied a CD with thier Xbox. With the USB > controller port adaptor and the right drivers, USB printers, scanners and burners are possible with the Xbox. I'm not saying I want to run out and do that, I'm just saying it IS technically possible.
18 Sep 2003, 07:02 PM
johnk_

Quote:

Originally Posted by sphere79

When I rented the game I noticed alot of "gansta" wanna-be "playas" types seemed to be attracted to that particular title. It's just not my kind of racing game, I'm looking forward to Sega GT ( for only $20! ) Rallisport 2 ( message to Sega - you put Sega Rally 3 and VF4 on the PS2 and I buy Rallisport 2 and Soul Caliber 2 instead, keep it up and you'll see less and less of my $$$ ) and Project Gotham. I wish they'd do another Nascar Heat with Live play, although I don't know if most players would have the patience to go the distance without crashing, etc.

if you can get past the stereotypical latino street racer jive, you have a really solid racer underneath, IMO.
18 Sep 2003, 07:12 PM
Mamoscott

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keres

Here's the closest system you can get to an Xbox on Price Watch.

Total = 285.89 (includes shipping)

Show me an Xbox that prints up your documents, scans images, writes CDs, ect ect ect...

Wise man says "If you want to play Xbox games, buy an Xbox. If you want to run a computer, buy a computer."

Your PC still won't play Xbox games. :D

And it's a lot more work to put that PC together than it is to mod an Xbox. In addition to that, you are ordering all of those parts from separate vendors, and a 10 dollar piece of shit USB gamepad isn't really ideal for emulation/gaming. Please show me where I can get a soundcard with the same capabilities as the one that comes with an Xbox for ten dollars.

It is possible to make your Xbox an all purpose PC. The majority of people just use it as a replacement for a Home Theater PC though, because it is easier and cheaper.
18 Sep 2003, 09:02 PM
Melf

I still don't see what's so bad about what MS is doing. They're updating their products to prevent people from using them in potentially illegal ways. What's so bad about that? How many people tamper with their systems only for legal purposes? Few. For every one guy that mods his system to play imports, 5 do it to run backups. I don't see MS doing anything wrong with updating systems to avoid illegal use. Better safe than sorry I guess.

As for the Live connection thing. I still think the guy is a whiny jerk about it. As Dyne said, he should have realized that clicking on the Live tab would connect him to MS' service. He did all that technical stuff on his Xbox successfully and was done in by an act of his own stupidity. :lol:
18 Sep 2003, 09:23 PM
Keres

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mamoscott

Your PC still won't play Xbox games. :D

And it's a lot more work to put that PC together than it is to mod an Xbox. In addition to that, you are ordering all of those parts from separate vendors, and a 10 dollar piece of shit USB gamepad isn't really ideal for emulation/gaming. Please show me where I can get a soundcard with the same capabilities as the one that comes with an Xbox for ten dollars.

It seems like you the only computer you'd accept as an equal to the Xbox would be made 100% from Xbox parts, so there's not much point in trying to further that point.

I just wanted to show you that you could make a sub $300 entertainment system without having to fight the most powerful software company on the planet.
18 Sep 2003, 10:24 PM
Mamoscott

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keres

It seems like you the only computer you'd accept as an equal to the Xbox would be made 100% from Xbox parts, so there's not much point in trying to further that point.

That is true. The point is that Microsoft buys their parts in bulk, puts them together, and sells their consoles at a considerable loss. There is no way that PC hardware vendors can compete with that, and as a result, the Xbox and a mod chip will give you the best value for your dollar.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keres

I just wanted to show you that you could make a sub $300 entertainment system without having to fight the most powerful software company on the planet.

I was never arguing that you couldn't build a system like that, only that modding the Xbox is cheaper and less of a hassle. You also didn't factor in the ~$100 cost of an OEM version of Windows for your entertainment PC, so even if you put together a PC and install Linux on it to save money or pirate your copy of Windows, you're "fighting the most powerful software company on the planet" as well I guess.

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