neogeoman, Lawrence Wright has put up a Border Down review.
You can find it at my site or at his site. His also has an impressive gallery of screens.
Dreamcast History:
http://www.dreamcasthistory.com/borderdown.html
NFG:
http://nfg.2y.net/games
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neogeoman, Lawrence Wright has put up a Border Down review.
You can find it at my site or at his site. His also has an impressive gallery of screens.
Dreamcast History:
http://www.dreamcasthistory.com/borderdown.html
NFG:
http://nfg.2y.net/games
Much thanks, dude.
I don't think I've ever seen you site.
Very nice.
Good review, I agree the music is a bit too upbeat, but the composition is good. So far I've played the game about a hour. The graphics are very solid if lacking color as Neogeoman pointed out. If you pause the game as you pass the first building you can see stairways through the windows.
Only complaint thus far, if you die on the third segment of a level you automatically arrive at the boss. Personally I think it would make more sense to fall back on a checkpoint but perhaps this is a "punishment" to deny you a extra chance to score points on that segment again.
The levels are long and varied so far, Remix mode switches around day of time for the borders and offers enemies with altered patterns and placement.
Fine game. *-neo
Great review. Now to wait for the mailman. I do love my shmups. :)
The one thing I really dig in the videos is the music. :)
NCS hasn't emailed me yet. Hrm.
i thought NCS mailed them out just yesterday....
i don't think i'll be getting mine in the mail today.. :(
I don't agree with the review at all. I really like the music, I like the firing patterns, and the beam system, I like the enemy design... I'm bothered by the lack of color, but whatever.
Really I like the game better than G Darius, which I consider to be a classic. Oh and the remix mode is really well done too. The game's a class act, it's honestly better than I was expecting.
Dunno about Neo, but I live in NJ, and 3-day UPS shipping from NCSX (in New York) only takes overnight to here.Quote:
Originally Posted by johnk_
The review painted the game as a competant worthwhile purchase. So you disagree with the enemy design and music part of the review... no biggie. I personally love Zuntata (Darius Gaiden music in particular), but I can certainly see how they would turn other people off.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
By the way, is it me or is the Dreamcast still holding up quite well on the graphic end of things? Those screens really don't look dated at all in comparison to the "living" consoles.
Hey, I want to start an argument, is this the right thread Hoah?
Well, do you want to argue about Border Down or the abysmal play of the Phillies the past week? This may or may not be the correct thread depending on your answer.
(Shakes fist at Shaper) :mad:Quote:
Originally Posted by Shapermc
I see it as more than compotent, I think it's one of the best from this group of individuals, who happen to have some 13 years experience with the genre. I think that "compotent" is a bit of an understement.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chibi Nappa
I mean you have to like this kind of shooter to enjoy the game. Darius and Metal Black have gotten some backlash in recent years that I don't think they deserve, but the review should have done a better job of drawing comparisons and things instead of a resonding "Meh, s'alright" which doesn't tell anybody anything.
What it does it does well, and that should be duly noted. That's alot more important than some unqualified declaration of compotence, because it means there's a reason to keep playing it, even with other, perhaps better shooters availible.
Neo has the distinct advantage of living in Japan. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
Heh, I was talking about neoalphazero, sorry.Quote:
Originally Posted by haohmaru
So how rare is this game? I'm considering a purchase, but not right now (just got a disgustingly huge car repair bill...). Anyone think I'll have a chance of easily scoring a copy (from VGD, NCSX, etc.) a month down the road?
EDIT: "The print run for the game was fairly small but we're confident that we'll be able to import enough restock to last us for the remainder of the year. " - www.ncsx.com
Excellent :)
- Kabuki
I'll have the D-Direct LE's on DCH in a month and a half, if you're still interested.Quote:
Originally Posted by kabuki
Oh, and word to the wise, take NCS' inventory claims with a grain of salt. They really have NO idea how long they'll have it for. Trust me on that one. ;)
Good review, NGM. I enjoyed reading it.
Border Down does look pleasing graphically from your screen shots- that nighttime city view (Stage 1, Border Red) is pretty damn cool. Just check out the lights in the building windows, for one thing. The Dreamcast does hold its own against the PS2 here. Backgrounds are monochromatic, but this lends the game a "simple yet elegant" look.
However, I'll state my disagreement on the music part of the review. Although I haven't received the game yet, what I've heard there (from the Border Down Image Sound Tracks CD and the demo medley G.Rev released) is nifty IMO- right up there with Yack's own Elevator Action 2 stuff.
Hopefully my copy of BD will arrive tomorrow. :)
I have the great fortune of being 50 miles from VGD :) .Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
Wow, I am enjoying this, frantic gameplay, both the homing lasers and regular shot work beautifully together. I'm amazed that the framerate stays stable with so much clutter on screen, aside from the asteriod field and boss explosions there's no slowdown. A few things:
-Like Ikaruga's chain count, your VMU tracks Break laser totals.
-Vids? In the options it appears you can access replays of levels, I assume they open as you play more.
-Remix mode is very nice as Frog said. The nighttime city even has snow falling in it.
*-neo
Yep, you unlock vids by getting to higher levels it seems. I'm pleased that they didn't just slap a port on a disc and gave us all the trimmings. A per-level score attack would have been nice, but apart from that, it's got all the extras.Quote:
Originally Posted by neoalphazero
Man, now I want this even more...
Can't really afford it right now but i've played it a fair bit already. How many VM blocks does it take up?
7 blocks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidez
Cheers mate.
I finally got around to playing it today... I'm quite impressed... it's a damned fine Horizontal shooter... which we haven't had in quite a while. Now I just need to pick up my own copy and try it out on VGA.
I agree completely with Frogacuda. This is a great game with well thought out mechanics, sweet visuals, and a solid musical score. I've only played for a half hour now, but I'm already very happy with it.
I especially like how the story is in Engrish and you can choose the border and level for practice mode (not to mention having great control over the difficulty... how different is 20% from 21% though?). It's going to get a lot of playtime from me in the near future.
:lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ammadeau
Deja vu. This is exactly the sort of question you ask when debating game review scoring systems.
As for BD, I'm still not sure mine's shipped yet. :(
I went plack and played some old favorite side scrollers. G Darius, Darius Gaiden, Metal Black, Thunderforce V... I have to say, BD holds up. It's not just my time away from the subgenre coloring my perception, it really is as good or better than those classics. (It's fighting with Darius Gaiden and winning by a hair for me right now).
I guess the review just shows how subjective it all is. Alot of people don't like Taito shmups, alot of people do. Alot of people don't like Gradius or R-Type either. I think it's safe to say if you're a fan of old Taito side scrollers, BD won't let you down, it's one of the best of that style.
Frogacuda's description sounds good to me. I would rather play something closer to Darius Gaiden than most of the bullet hell shooters that have dominated the scene lately.
The screen can get pretty hectic in this game too, especially when confronting a boss, but it seems light in comparison to a game like GW2. You can still get trapped in a corner, but that's what the break laser is for.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoZeedeater
There is a Darius sort of feel to the game, now that I think about it, but then I've always liked the Darius series (while disliking R-types).
Bingo, Darius was always like that too. Never quite "manic" like a Cave game or anything, but alot more bullet weaving than a game like R-type. Kind of a middle ground.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ammadeau
I kinda like that BD has both open parts and parts that feel almost like a vert shooter, and then little cramped corridor parts like Gradius (except you can actually touch the walls! Hurray!).
Wait... you can actually touch the walls without dying? Damn, I would have cleared the second stage already if I had known that. Being careful not to hit the walls cost me a few lives already.
Since it doesn't seem to be mentioned yet, you start the game with no continues, but earn more and more as you play much like G Rev's previous DC game Doki Doki.
You can't bump into every wall without dying, especially in Level 2.
I started with 3 continues
Just want to say that I really enjoy this game and I hope to see you guys at the high score board. As far as touching walls is concerned, from what I can tell, you can touch them, but if you stay in contact for too long, kaboom. So, a little bump here and there is ok, just don't pin yourself to a wall and you are fine. I love that. I always hated dying in Gradius because I'd go down to grab a power up and I accidentilly hit the ground.
As far as credits are concerned, I started with one as well. After one or two times playing I unlocked 3. I don't continue anyway, so it didn't bother me any...
According to Gamefront, so far Border Down has sold 862 limited editons and 647 regular editions. Odd I figured it would sell that much alone in the US/UK. *-neo
got the game today..
it's good fun, but admittedly not $60 fun.
i'll probably like it more as time goes by.
Hi 3 Border Down questions :) :
1. Can anybody please post links to movies of the game in motion WITH SOUND please? I'd like to see it in motion (and hear the music) before I buy it :)
2. So, wait, is it like Ikaruga where you get another continue for each hour you play? How exactly does getting more continues work?
3. How is the overall difficulty? (include with and wtihout using the extra continues you earn ;) )
Thanks! :D
1). All the vids I've seen have sound. Maybe you lack the codec. Here's an MP3 off the soundtrack.Quote:
Originally Posted by dhowerter
2.) I haven't gotten more than 3 continues yet, so I don't know
3.) The game is challenging, but not frustrating. But it has 4 difficulty settings, so you can suit your needs. It gets pretty intense.
It looks better than almost all of the ps2 shooters (excluding gradius V). R-type delta has better effects and what not, but this framerate is way too smooth and there's a lot of detail in vga. I think it's definately worth the 60 bucks, but not everyone will like it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chibi Nappa
Got home after work, low and behold had it there sitting for me. I must say that this game is pretty amazing. Game play is very much like Metal Black only a lot faster and action packed. Frog puts it in the best description. One thing that wasn't really mentioned though was the soundtrack. The music for the variations of each stage and the Remix mode make you want to kick some serious ass.
I'm very pleased with it, I just got it today and have put in a bit under an hour on it. It's taking me a while to puzzle out how all the shots work but it's fun sorting it all out. I like the way you can really use the break laser, rather than having to save it for special occaisons, the way using it decreases your overall shot power, and the way shooting more stuff builds it back up again. It's a nice tug of war over having a nice, powerful main weapon with a good number of homing lasers and, if I read the little numbers on screen correctly, using the break laser to rack up point combos.
Or have I gotten my scoring system confused with some kind of power-up system? It's early yet, I haven't really researched it much.
James
The music track on the beginning of the second stage in remix mode (green and red borders only) is one of my favorite pieces of videogame music ever.
Still haven't cleared the second boss. I must suck.
Got it yesterday. Still coming to grips with all this border nonsense.
Pretty decent. We'll see how today goes...
A fine game is Border Down.
Yes, indeed. I think it's great. The whole border concept is completely new to me, and I love the electronic acid-jazz (or whatever) soundtrack.
VGA... oh... my... amazing. More Naomi ports, please.
I can't find my VG box :(
Finally unlocked 6 credits. I think it's based on completed plays, not time. I usually quit games alot when my high score is out of reach so it took me a while. I really don't like how it keeps your score when you continue, but it does the Ikaruga thing where the last digit of your score is the number of times you contined, so you can tell which scores are which.
I hate to say it, but I'm kind of enjoying this game more than Ikaruga. It's less of a perffectionists game, and less frustrating in that regard.
Got mine today and I'm pretty impressed. The graphics are great, the soundtrack rocks, and the firing system is pretty cool. There's nothing like letting loose on a boss with a level 5 break laser! It's also cool that you have homing lasers that can be used at will, and aren't dependent on a powerup.
I particularly liked the asteroid field. The game reminds me a lot of G Darius too.
Can someone explain how the border system works? Is there a post somewhere that I may have missed?
:eek: You don't deserve to write for SF Kosmo!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
Ikaruga was more frustrating than fun at times... *runs*
You know what I'm saying. Ikaruga was like an R-Type kinda shooter. Precision, memorization, and perfection. It's awesome when you get into it, but it can be hard to pick up for a casual play at the same time.Quote:
Originally Posted by J2d
Border Down is definately easier to grab a game of and then put down for a while.
Also, I was raised on the Darius series, so I have alot of love for this brand of shooter. I always liked Darius more than R-Type and Gradius. To see G.Rev produce a worthy heir is a wonderful thing.
G.Rev says they're working on their next game now. I really would like to see them take a crack at a Layer Section successor.
To be fair, almost every shooter is hard on those things if you go for score and Ikaruga doesn't need to be half of that if you only select easy imho.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
Yes, but Ikaruga more so because it feels more like there's a "right way" to do it. I feel more compelled toward perfectionsim. It's what makes the game work, but it's also what makes it frustrating at times.Quote:
Originally Posted by J2d
Heh I didn't mean this to turn into an Ikaruga critique, I'm just saying, I'm having a blast with BD. I never said BD was the better game, just that I'm enjoying it more right now.
Ikaruga's only maddeningly difficult if you play for chains. That's where the insane precision and uncompromising perfection comes in to play. Not to say I've '1-credited' Ikaruga yet, but I think it's actually easier than BD when you play more for survival than for score.Quote:
You know what I'm saying. Ikaruga was like an R-Type kinda shooter. Precision, memorization, and perfection. It's awesome when you get into it, but it can be hard to pick up for a casual play at the same time.
COULD somebody PLEASE post links here for movies of Border Down in action. All I can find are movies in the .asx format and they dont work on my computer. :(
Maybe jsut stage 1 and 2 would be nice :-)
Hope more people crack down and get this. The score board seems lonely. :cry:
Go to http://get.to/SDP and download SDP multimedia. It captures .asx and saves them as .wmv. If that link doesn't work I also posted a link that will in the old Border Down anticipation thread. It'll be a few pages back by now.Quote:
Originally Posted by dhowerter
Could you let us know when you get them in?Quote:
Originally Posted by haohmaru
What's in the D-Direct version? That mouse pad?
Yep.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
EDIT: It also comes with an extra CD case with back liner notes for the Soundtrack.
Neat.
Pretty spiffy. But I'm a trackball man anyway, so I wouldn't even get to show it off.
Put my 1 credit scores to the side for a moment to explore the later levels. They're damned cool! In the first couple levels, the different borders were subtle variations on each other more often than not. In level 4 the Green Border doesn't even resemble the Red border. I hear there's 4 completely different versions of the last level, also, depending on how you did. the Border system is a good gimmick once you get into it.
Is there a place where I can research this "border system" ??
Yeah, I finally realized what the system was for. It's a bitch that you kind of get punished for dying on a stage, but it really motivates you to keep playing.
I like the differences in stages but have only reached the level 3 boss. I almost got him but he nailed me when my break laser ran out. :(
Actually it doesn't work that way. The game bumps the difficulty down when you border down. So if you die twice and get to the red border it'll be way easier than if you started on the red border.Quote:
Originally Posted by Melf
I noticed that too. The mini boss and the first stage boss have harder patterns if you choose red border at the beginning rather than dropping to red after having died twice. Unless my mind is decieving me again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
It was a mistake buying this game at the same time I got Disgaea because I'd really love to play it, but now have no time for it. :sweat:
Basically, how it works is you have 3 ships, like any shooter. The twist is that the 3 ships are taking 3 different routes to get to the target (boss), so when you die with the first ship, you switch over to a different path. It's pseudo checkpoint based, but it actually sends you to the nearest checkpoint, even if that's up ahead.Quote:
Originally Posted by kabuki
The different borders can just be variants on each other, like for example, one might be an upside down version of the other, or just have different enemy patterns, or they can be completely different. For example, the entirety of level 4 red border is a different level from level 4 green border, leading up to the same boss. And then after 5 levels, depending on how much time you spent in each border you can go to one of 4 completely different final stages.
It's not revolutionary, but it does lend itself to replay and experimentation, much like Darius' branching system, except it's actually based on your performance. I like it.
Thanks for clearing that up Frog. :)
I guess I'll be sticking with the green border until I don't suck as much.
Is there a place where I can research this "border system" ??
Red Border offers big scoring opportunities though. You can crack like 8 million in level 1 alone if you do it right.Quote:
Originally Posted by Melf
Excellent Frog, thank you. I'm buying this... eventually :)
And now, my take on Border Down.
Review with 9 screenshots
Ten additional screenshots
The border system is nice IMO. Things get interesting when you have the ability to voluntarily Border Down at the start of a stage- give up a life for a shot at more points.
Scoring is a nice break from the combo systems found in Mars Matrix and DDP- here, you find the right times to use the Break Laser. When you're tearing up the large battleships, there are some high value parts on them that can get you a lot of points when included in a Break chain.
"Border Down is probably one of the best shooters of all time ..."Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenshin Himura
Wow! No small words, there.
I like this too, don't touch the walls too much or you will die! This game turned out better than I thought. The small color pallette doesn't bother me, though the enemy bullets should be a different color. Especially annoying in level three.Quote:
I kinda like that BD has both open parts and parts that feel almost like a vert shooter, and then little cramped corridor parts like Gradius (except you can actually touch the walls! Hurray!).
Worth the money, if you like horizontal shooters.
OK a little confused here. Im pretty sure you go form Border Green to yellow to Red right? (each time you lose a life.
1. So is each border you go DOWN to easier or harder than the last . For example is Border Red HARDER or EASIER than border Green?
2. When you continue, what border do you start on? Since I presume you get 3 lives when you continue, do you reset back to border Green?
yeah, each border down makes the game more difficult. according to the mission briefing, the red border is for MANIACS.Quote:
Originally Posted by dhowerter
you automatically continue at the green border. there's no way to choose a different border, short of purposely dying.Quote:
Originally Posted by dhowerter
No it doesn't. Bordering Down is easier. STARTING on a lower border is harder. If you die on a boss, for example, his patterns will become simpler and easier than they wer on green. But if you start on yellow and don't die they'll be harder than they were on green.Quote:
Originally Posted by epmode
Am I the only person who doesn't think this game is all that? It is a competent shooter, for sure, but to be honest, I find it rather mundane.
I love shooters, and I love the Darius series, so it is not b/c I don't like Taito shooters or anything. I just find it to be kinda bleh. I don't know how to explain it, but it doesn't excite me like Mars Matrix, Gigawing, Gradius, Parodius, Darius. I decide to go back and play some of the aforementioned shooters and find myself having much more fun and intensity then this.
The music is a rather subjective thing, and I thought it was okay, but it doesn't really fit the environment (it seems), and Ikaruga really destroys BD's music and how it fits into the whole mood of mowing bad guys down.
I will play this more and get farther to see if my opinion will change. But if it doesn't, I think it is a very average shooter in DC's excellent library of shootemups.
It is above average, alibet not too much.
Besides, am I the only one on this thread that did not like Darius (G Darius does not count)? I mean common they were far to cheap and crappy. Anyways..
I do like this game, but not too much. I will probably play it for score.
It is better than 2 more recent releases *Cough*Shikigami*Cough*Ikaruga*cough*
I think the game is somewhat lacking in artistic flair and presentation. It never dazzled or wowed me, but it did suck me in, and the more I play it, and get into playing it for score, the more I like it. It doesn't have the amazing style of Darius Gaiden or Ikaruga, obviously, but the action is solid, the border system is great, and the break laser mechanics are a blast, and the score play is fun and strategic. That's what counts for me.
thanks for the clarification. i noticed that the boss patters got a little easier, but i just thought i was imagining things.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
asthetically speaking, border down is certainly nothing special. it's technically excellent, but generic. as far as gameplay goes, i'm having a good time with it. i find it more enjoyable than, say, ikaruga when played for survival.
No, you're not. Alot of people don't like them. I cut my teeth on them though, and I don't think they were cheap, just tough.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shapermc
I don't think BD is like that though. It's balanced much differently. No sheild and all.
Aside from the bland level 2 I have no problem with Border Down's designs or graphics, in fact none of the bosses have disappointed me yet (at level 4 now).
Cripes, I was afraid this game would be a cakewalk, instead I end up dropping at least one life everytime I fight the level 2 boss. Music is growing on me too, especially the level 1 remix theme. Later stages sound more like traditional shooter tunes too.
It's a shame that import game coverage is non existent in game mags today. Border Down deserves some exposure and so far I haven't seen a thing on it, then again so did Zero Gunner 2, Cosmic Smash.... *-neo
Who wants to sell me their copy? :)
That sums up my feelings exactly. It's not the best shmup out there but it's pretty darn good. I'm happy with my purchase (got the LE) and am glad to have one more go at shmupping on my DC. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
Hell I still don't have one myself... damned limited stock... freaking boss won't let me buy one. :(Quote:
Originally Posted by kabuki
Anyone tried it on mania difficulty yet? It adds more ships and more bullets, but doesn't seem a lot harder than normal for some reason, though the way I keep dying from stray bullets it doesn't really matter. :p
Mine just came! :D
Y'see, I thought I preordered, but then a month later when it came out didn't notice any activity on my payment card or a record of the transaction in my NCS order history. Tonight, though, my roommate told me a suspicious package had arrived, and lo and behold I own a $93 Dreamcast shooter.
I've been listening to the music while working and am a little sad that all my favorite tracks were in the videos I watched from sega.co.jp. Maybe the rest'll grow on me, though.
Alright, now to play this thing. Hoo-hah.
Does anyone know all the things you can unlock(and how?)
Border Down= Failure
Border Down sold 3,228 copies in it's first week, a medicore showing for one of DC's better shooting efforts. Don't know if the LE sales were included in that info... *-neo
I'm disappointed about those sales figures. It's a shame since the game deserves better.
Anyway, I just got the game yesterday and my early impressions are very positive. It's a good package with tidy VMU organisation, a nice practice mode, good data-on-screen options (but no screen adjust so everything's off to the left in RGB) and whole new Remix Mode.
The music is groovy and it's great to have some new tunes for the Remix mode. It's not fitting or dramatic like Ikaruga's music but it's more memorable. The music is loud though, so the subtler sound effects get lost behind it. Zero Gunner 2 still has the best effects of a shooting game on DC.
One concern about the gameplay, being a horizontal, is that it might be cheap with lots of annoying surprise death like the Thunderforces, which I do not like. Thankfully, you can see the enemies coming and the bullets are slow so, for the most part, it's fair.
It's deceptively hard too. It took me a good few credits to get past level 2 and in the end I managed it somehow by dying twice on level one and struggling through the red border to level 3. But most importantly, I kept dying before the end of level 2 but I came back for more. It's addictive.
According to G.Rev's site they sold through the entire first printing already and more are on the way, so apparently it's doing ok, or at leas as well as was hoped. I think they only made like 5000 initially, and a good chunk went to importers, so higher figures would kinda be impossible.Quote:
Originally Posted by neoalphazero
Hmm in that case, good to hear the game exceeded their intial expectations. *-neo