Sega Finally Turning It Around Financially?

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gamasutra.com

Sega Raises Forecasts
Representatives from Sega have indicated that the company is raising its earnings and sales forecasts for the first half of the fiscal year. For the first half ended September 30 the company is predicting a group net profit of 5.7 billion yen ($52.0m), up from an initial forecast of just 200 million yen ($1.8m). In the same period in 2002 the company earned 1.01 billion yen ($9.2m).

Sales forecasts for the first half have also been raised from 88 billion yen ($802.5m) to 94.2 billion yen ($856.4m). The actual figures will be reported next month.

In the fiscal year through March 2004, the company predicts its net profit will climb to 8 billion yen ($72.9m) from an initial forecast of 7.5 billion yen ($68.4m).
-David Jenkins

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A forecast of $1.8 million bumped up to $52 million?! It's good to see things working out for them as a third party. Things should improve still with them spreading out their developing for all consoles more (read: more ps2 games). What boosted them so much? The first half of their fiscal year ended at the end of September so it started at the beginning of April. There was Virtua Fighter 4 Evo, and ummmm... Billy Hatcher? Sonic Advance 2? ... Dunno what else. Good news for them tho.

nice to see theyre finally making some money :)

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Originally Posted by Scourge

What boosted them so much? The first half of their fiscal year ended at the end of September so it started at the beginning of April. There was Virtua Fighter 4 Evo, and ummmm... Billy Hatcher? Sonic Advance 2? ... Dunno what else.

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They probably just sold off Visual Concepts to Sony.

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Originally Posted by sphere79

They probably just sold off Visual Concepts to Sony.

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Probably something drastic like that, they haven't really had a million seller lately.

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Originally Posted by sphere79

They probably just sold off Visual Concepts to Sony.

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Yowch! After a quick check-up on your rumor mongering, I've decided you may be right.

Didn't they lower their expecations by exactly the same numbers earlier in the year? I don't think things are changing for them at all.

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Originally Posted by Ammadeau

Didn't they lower their expecations by exactly the same numbers earlier in the year? I don't think things are changing for them at all.

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If you look at the year to year comparison, for the same period in 2002, they earned $9.2 million and that period in 2003 is $52 million, a difference of around $43 million, so whether they lowered their expectation earlier in the year or not, things have certainly changed for some reason.

Now all they need to do is turn things around mentally. :p

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Originally Posted by Melf

Now all they need to do is turn things around mentally. :p

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Well, considering they conglomerated their development houses and made some serious strategic decisions about what games and game types will be put onto what consoles, like discontinuing sports support for GC and deciding to put Sonic on all platforms, I'd say they they're turning the corner there too. As long as they don't jizz all over the place and announce a new console for 2004 on the heels of their recent positive financial statement, I think they'll be alright. Of course, I'd buy that console, so...

Did they sell VC to Sony? Hmmm. I was doubtful that their move to 3rd party would work for them, but looks like they proved me wrong. Now if only they'll release Shenmue II on PS2, I'll be happy with them once again.

SC

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Originally Posted by spacecowboy

Did they sell VC to Sony? Hmmm. I was doubtful that their move to 3rd party would work for them, but looks like they proved me wrong. Now if only they'll release Shenmue II on PS2, I'll be happy with them once again.

SC

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Well, nothing's been said officially about VC getting sold to Sony, but in all their talk during combining development houses, they didn't talk about VC at all. Also, I looked for upcoming VC games and there's nothing there past October 2003 with the ESPN 2k4 games, but since that's their bread and butter, that might not mean much. Then there was the actual rumor that I think was in EGM that they were planning to sell VC to Sony. All that with the fact that they haven't put out *that* much this year and nothing was a million seller, so... The answer is "I dunno."

But yeah, let's get the Shenmue franchise onto a console that sells. Unfortunately, Shenmue II is pretty dated at this point, no matter how good one thinks it is, so porting it to PS2 as-is wouldn't be too impressive to the masses, I'm thinking. Shenmue III developed directly for PS2 and having the story made so it can exist well enough as a stand alone game without compromising anything that's come before? I'm there.

Dude, a drasticly elevated profit margin from what is forecast is usually a bad thing.

If a company's bottom line is increasing at an unexpected rate, then they're probably selling off assets. If they're selling off assets, it's a bad freaking thing.

Stop making sense. We're all incredibly intelligent business men and we know everything about games.

I'm sorry. It won't ever happen again.

*walks away with tail between legs*

Of course, it might just be that they sold VC after all. ;)

But that's still nothing to get all uppity about. If they can't turn a decent profit with their games, and are resourting to reporting the gains of sold assets (VC) to inflate their financial reports, it still looks shadey. Next quarter it'll be back down to 1.8 million, and after reporting a $52 million gain in the prior quarter, the stock holders are going to be super-dooper pissed off.

While looking for answers to the VC question, I found this interesting site ( to say the least ) http://www.beta-7.com/.

The site seems to imply that Beta testers for the 2K4 series were somehow injured, or that something "fishy" in general is going on - with testers blacking out, etc. It could explain why they'd want to sell them off ( it's it's real ). Do yourself a favor and check this site out.......

From a weird scanned ad ( from Orlando Weekly ) that reads, "If you or anyone you know has volunteered in the past two months as a beta tester for ESPN NFL football, please call 415-507-7777. Your response will remain confidential".

Yup. And then guys in black suits will come to your house and make you disappear! ( Don't laugh, someone's place supposedly got ransacked.... )

But anyway, if anyone would like to ask Greg Thomas ( president of VC ) what's going on ( if anything ) over there concerning a selloff - simply call the number published above ( which identifies itself as a customer service line ) and press "0" during the greeting. Now press "9" for the name directory, enter the keys for T H and O ( 8,4 and 6 ) and choose option 4 - "Greg Thomas". If he's ever "at his desk" than someone ask him simply "are you still owned by Sega"? That's the best way to do it, cause if there's no reply you know the answer.................

Upon further investigation - it appears the above phone number was set-up JUST FOR the ads, and has no other use than for people to call in who were beta testers for ESPN NFL football 2K4.... man this is some x-files type s**t. It does connect to their regular phone system , and if you dial their main number you'll get the same system.

worst hoax ever...somebody posted that here a couple months ago...

beta-7 is just a sega-run hype site for nfl 2k4. guerilla marketing.

There's this too

http://www.hmklab.com/private/users/admin/files/002/

If it's a hoax ( which I'm not discounting ) then WHY?

Did they fake the video of Warren Sapp mentioning "blackouts" in a disclaimer he was recording?

http://www.beta-7.com/blog/archives/000165.html

Why is there a specific number set up for people who beta tested a certain game - is that not odd?

The whole thing seems far fetched, yet again I ask - what is the motive if it is truely fake?

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Originally Posted by epmode

beta-7 is just a sega-run hype site for nfl 2k4. guerilla marketing.

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That is probably the most plausable explanation ( remember "meetseaman.com"? ) - though it lists phone numbers for a ton of Sega branches and makes a ton of violent accusations, seems a bit over the top for marketing, no? Why would they list VC's lawyer's name and ask people to call her and ask her to stop harrassing the site creator?

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Originally Posted by sphere79

The whole thing seems far fetched, yet again I ask - what is the motive if it is truely fake?

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to generate interest in 2k4. "omg the game is so good it's dangerous!"

like i said, it's guerilla marketing. do you remember the blair witch website? it fooled a lot of people into thinking the movie was a documentary. same concept.

the whole idea is to make it appear as legit as possible. that includes listing names and using official documents wherever possible, while creating others from scratch.

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Originally Posted by epmode

to generate interest in 2k4. "omg the game is so good it's dangerous!"

like i said, it's guerilla marketing. do you remember the blair witch website? it fooled a lot of people into thinking the movie was a documentary. same concept.

the whole idea is to make it appear as legit as possible. that includes listing names and using official documents wherever possible, while creating others from scratch.

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Yea the first person perspective ( formerly "crash cam" ) is SOOO realistic that it will actually cause injuries, I get it. I agree that's probably just what it is, but I'm surprised that they'd post phone numbers for offices everywhere, etc.

Well, I just got off the phone with the person this http://www.hmklab.com/private/users/admin/files/002/ domain is registered to - Brian Clark. His info is posted on the beta-7.com site and this is the first he's heard of it. He told me he has no idea what those files are on the hmklab site and he was going to find out and get back to me - he sounded totally legit, imo. If someone at his company was hired to create them, he'll let me know.

As far as generating interest, it didn't work - did it.

Why would anybody buy a sports game to see if it makes them blackout? That's not "marketing" of any kind. While I doubt the validity of all this, I doubt Sega or VC are behind it as it wouldn't reflect well on them or their products in any way. I mean, sports games aren't Perfect Dark, ya know? Remember all the web stuff Rare did for that game? That was good marketing: it actually had something to do with the game and instilled intrigue and not fear.

Scourge, i don't think it's a good idea for the same reasons, but i think you need to be more cynical when it comes to this stuff. i have a masochistic interest in unorthadox marketing schemes, and i've seen similar campaigns in the past. ad execs can be super shady.

I'm happy to see Sega turn it around... ;) Let's just hope they can keep it going :\

*Looks at topic. Then at Segas line-up for the year*

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Well shit, the money most definetly isn't from games.

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Originally Posted by Sl1p

*Looks at topic. Then at Segas line-up for the year*

....

Well shit, the money most definetly isn't from games.

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Finally. Someone who "gets" it.

Theres not much to get CV, you're absolutely right. This isn't good news at all...

of course, I want Sega to just go away for good because they're bloody fucking stupid and incompetent, so yea, this is good news.

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Originally Posted by epmode

Scourge, ... i think you need to be more cynical when it comes to this stuff.

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Dunno why, but that really struck me as funny! Probably because in "real life" I'm a cynical bastard. I just play Positive Advocate on the web. For the record, anytime anything starts mentioning the men in black, it's -10 Credibility for me. Conspiracy theories are fine, but this is a football videogame we're talking about. I doubt it's at the top of any Black Ops "to do" list.

• Assassinate indigenous population's elected officials. Check.
• Create civil unrest with marketplace bombing. Blame on terrorists. Check.
• Place ad stating payment for Martyrdom next to Religious Leader X's picture in "Allah wants you" pose. Check.
• Place special "blackout" feature in Sega's ESPN NFL 2K4. Check.

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Originally Posted by Captain Vegetable

Finally. Someone who "gets" it.

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Why are you being such a tool? All through this thread, even before you got here, people speculated that they've indeed sold off something huge.

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Originally Posted by Scourge

Yowch! After a quick check-up on your rumor mongering, I've decided you may be right.

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Just because not everyone is stroking your ego doesn't mean they disagree with you or that they have no business acumen.

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Originally Posted by Sl1p

*Looks at topic. Then at Segas line-up for the year*

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Well shit, the money most definetly isn't from games.

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OMG! Tehy are sellin teh crak!

Streetside Pharmaceuticals!

Actually at this point, it wouldn't be such a bad idea for Sega to go into crack big time. Just imagine! Sega would be so rich and suspicious that we would get sequels to both Rez AND Ristar!

I hope Sega succeeds. I don't know where the anti-Sega hostility is coming from--sure they fucked on the business side for years but the majority of their games this year are solid releases. PDO, VF4: EVO, F-Zero, Billy Hatcher, Monkey Ball 2, GBA stuff, and the ESPN sports titles (granted PSO and Sonic Adventure 2 were rehashes). I'm very happy with my Sega purchases this year and I look forward to VO: MARZ. I think a lot of the bitching is about the games they AREN'T releasing/developing like Shenmue, Rez, Nights sequels etc. I dunno why anyone would want tehm to go away... :(

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Originally Posted by Sl1p

Actually at this point, it wouldn't be such a bad idea for Sega to go into crack big time. Just imagine! Sega would be so rich and suspicious that we would get sequels to both Rez AND Ristar!

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So its official! Someone prep an internet petition!

Dear Japanese Sega guys:

Yo, holla at your boy. Seriously son, the whole third party thing is not working out for right now. Yall could totaly make some cheddar by Grindin and puttin in work on the streetz. Yo, I remember when yall put out that Sega Genesis when I was little, and It be entertainin' us to this very day. Fer real money, this be a petition from me Pookie, Noxema, Jermane, alla dem TNL n***as, and my cousin Duracell. We all be behind you god. Yall could be big. You need a street team, you got it.
One love:
Gymkata

Not really Sega hate, but to anyone whos been a fan, Penny Arcade sums it up better than anyone..
http://www.penny-arcade.com/images/2001/20010601l.gif


Domestic Violence=Comedy gold.

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Originally Posted by Scourge

Well, nothing's been said officially about VC getting sold to Sony, but in all their talk during combining development houses, they didn't talk about VC at all. Also, I looked for upcoming VC games and there's nothing there past October 2003 with the ESPN 2k4 games, but since that's their bread and butter, that might not mean much. Then there was the actual rumor that I think was in EGM that they were planning to sell VC to Sony. All that with the fact that they haven't put out *that* much this year and nothing was a million seller, so... The answer is "I dunno."

But yeah, let's get the Shenmue franchise onto a console that sells. Unfortunately, Shenmue II is pretty dated at this point, no matter how good one thinks it is, so porting it to PS2 as-is wouldn't be too impressive to the masses, I'm thinking. Shenmue III developed directly for PS2 and having the story made so it can exist well enough as a stand alone game without compromising anything that's come before? I'm there.

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The way I heard the rumors was not that they would be selling the studio to Sony, but that they would just be changing the ESPN/2K4 franchise to gameday and making it PS2 exculsive.

Given the gains that the ESPN games have made on Xbox this year, I'm thinking that's looking less likely though.

This is probably the result of ditching alot of staff in the merger, though.

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Originally Posted by soundwave

I hope Sega succeeds. I don't know where the anti-Sega hostility is coming from... (

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"There are more Sega/Nintendo deathwishes on this board than in this single cigarette (holds out cig). Welcome to Crazyworld. Welcome to TNL. Smoke 'em if you got 'em."

truth

In regards to Anti-Sega hostility, some people need to look at the business and developer sides of the company as separate. Sega as a developer of great games should not be hated because of the stupid decisions made by the people running the company.

For all the times I've supported Sega, they've let me down. So I don't hate Sega just for the sake of hating something. After getting screwed over so many times, you just get fed up.

SC

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Originally Posted by spacecowboy

For all the times I've supported Sega, they've let me down. So I don't hate Sega just for the sake of hating something. After getting screwed over so many times, you just get fed up.

SC

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They give you years of quality gaming, but that's "screwing you" because they're not giving you two games on you platform of choice. Jesus, maybe it would be better if Sega didn't make these games at all.

It's not like they're taking something from you you would have had without them.

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Originally Posted by Frogacuda

They give you years of quality gaming, but that's "screwing you" because they're not giving you two games on you platform of choice. Jesus, maybe it would be better if Sega didn't make these games at all.

It's not like they're taking something from you you would have had without them.

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It's not just two games, it's all the stuff before. It's all their failed systems I bought and when I bought them, not releasing any good games for them. The only one I got my money out of was probably the Genesis. Even the DC let me down and I really like the games on it. Then they decide to give the few games I do like to a system I don't have. Maybe I'm just bitter... :p It's just a personal thing. Sorry for the rant.

SC

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Originally Posted by spacecowboy

It's not just two games, it's all the stuff before. It's all their failed systems I bought and when I bought them, not releasing any good games for them. The only one I got my money out of was probably the Genesis. Even the DC let me down and I really like the games on it. Then they decide to give the few games I do like to a system I don't have. Maybe I'm just bitter... :p It's just a personal thing. Sorry for the rant.

SC

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Eh, the only system I feel burned over is the 32X. All the others had enough good stuff to justify the system's cost. I have more DC games than I have for any other system (except the PC).

It's a love hate relationship. I love what they have done so far, I hate them for what could have been.

Y'know, Sega could've made a bit from Virtua Fighter... How much did it cost to bump up VF4 to VF4:Evo?? Surely they've saved a few bucks.

Then there's the endless Sonic Adventure ports (DX, Battle, GBA etc). I remember some of 'em reaching 200-300 thou so even if one is not a million seller, but add them up....

Also, I hear their 'Soccer Card' arcade game they made back home really took off. It's like a Pokemon card game for Soccer nuts. Could someone verify this for me :D?

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Originally Posted by Frogacuda

Eh, the only system I feel burned over is the 32X. All the others had enough good stuff to justify the system's cost. I have more DC games than I have for any other system (except the PC).

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Yea, but thats YOU. As for me, Im fucking pissed off that I spent $200 on a Dreamcast only to have no new games released for it a year and a half later, then I needed to get a $300 PS2. That type of shit pisses me off man, big time, BIG TIME, and from working at EB, I know Im not the only one. A lot of people were very angry about that, and they were very angry at Sega.

I was also pissed that they were hyping up that SegaNet to be the be-all end-all, the thing that sets it apart from PS2, etc., but it turned out to be the worst gaming service Ive ever used in my entire life, and Ive used both TEN and MPlayer. Absolute total garbage.

People want to play their systems and buy new games for them for as long as possible... buying into the "new Sega" bullshit and then getting screwed over just as before (no, it was worse than before - Saturn was around longer than Dreamcast) is very, very annoying and pisses off a lot of customers.

I could see Sega making these profits from software. In Japan they were tied for #4 publisher with 7 titles in the top 100 for the year.

http://www.the-magicbox.com/Chart-BestSell2003.htm

In my honest opinion, most of Sega's problems came from the transitional age between 16 and 32 bits. Sega were too busy trying to release the "new big thing"... and in turn they released too many "new big things" and they were spread out WAY too thin. If they just focused on developing the Sega Saturn to be the best/cheapest system they could make, they wouldn't of lost their user base. Also, there was too much rivalrly between SoJ and SoA.... Sega was like a confused two headed dragon that kept attacking itself.

Anyway, regarding Beta 7. I've checked the domain registration and it looks VERY suss to me.

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Originally Posted by Beta 7 Registry Info

Registrant:
Domains by Proxy, Inc.
15111 N Hayden Rd., Suite 160
PMB353
Scottsdale, Arizona 85260
United States

Registered through: GoDaddy.com
Domain Name: BETA-7.COM
Created on: 18-Jun-03
Expires on: 18-Jun-04
Last Updated on: 30-Jul-03

Administrative Contact:
Private, Registration BETA-7.COM@domainsbyproxy.com
Domains by Proxy, Inc.
15111 N Hayden Rd., Suite 160
PMB353
Scottsdale, Arizona 85260
United States
(480) 624-2599 Fax --
Technical Contact:
Private, Registration BETA-7.COM@domainsbyproxy.com
Domains by Proxy, Inc.
15111 N Hayden Rd., Suite 160
PMB353
Scottsdale, Arizona 85260
United States
(480) 624-2599 Fax --

Domain servers in listed order:
NS1.DATAPIPE.NET
NS2.DATAPIPE.NET

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Check out Domains by Proxy and read their by-line..... dodgy..... shady stuff Sega! Bad Sega!

I'm not being a tool, Scourge. I'm simply bringing to light what you all seem to want to keep in the dark.

You're all acting like it's a good thing that Sega has sold off an asset. "What the . . . OH! Sega just got rid of a development house. That explains the super unexpected revenues in this quarter. Everything must be OK then."

That's the wrong way to go about looking at this situation, but it seems as though that's how it's being taken.

Also, I'm not being a tool in the reguard that I want Sega to fail, because I don't want them to fail. I love Sega, and I love Sega games. I hope they're able to finally clear the black, long-term style, in the near future. I'm not doomsaying at all, so please don't think I am. I'm simply pointing out the regretable reality of the situation.

they have to do that or teh evil forces will find them!! OH NO BETA 7 IZ M1SS1NG!!!!!11

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Originally Posted by Captain Vegetable

I'm not being a tool, Scourge. I'm simply bringing to light what you all seem to want to keep in the dark.

You're all acting like it's a good thing that Sega has sold off an asset. "What the . . . OH! Sega just got ride of a development house. That explains the super unexpected revenues in this quarter. Everything must be OK then."

That's the wrong way to go about looking at this situation, but it seems as though that's how it's being taken.

Also, I'm not being a tool in the reguard that I want Sega to fail, because I don't want them to fail. I love Sega, and I love Sega games. I hope they're able to finally clear the black, long-term style, in the near future. I'm not doomsaying at all, so please don't think I am. I'm simply pointing out the regretable reality of the situation.

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Fair enough. My apologies. I wish people would realize that the Dreamcast failed because the unwashed masses didn't buy it; circular reasoning on the part of the consumer. While some of that was due to Sega CD/32X/Saturn, I don't think that's the main reason the average consumer ignored DC. Sega CD and 32X certainly put people off, and the Saturn wasn't given a fair shake because of them, plus a couple of other reasons, like the difficulty of programming for it and the fact that 3d gaming was rearing it's ugly head and that's where the players coming up were being weened. Saturn didn't cater to those people.

DC was passed on because the average gamer said, "Naw, I'll wait til PlayStation 2" a year before PS2 was to come out in the States. And in Japan, Sega was never that big in home gaming. Their arcade business was what kept them viable there. Genesis wasn't even that big in Japan. I think Sony's hype machine did more to ruin the Dreamcast than anything. It certainly wasn't Sega making a conscious decision to cut short the life of their newest hardware. People who piss and moan about Sega screwing them over with DC should realize that it was the mainstream gamer who screwed them.

Sega certainly made big mistakes with their business. Their balance sheet was never in order because of the Sega CD, 32X and Saturn. They should never have released the DC. Those people who bitch about Sega screwing them over with the DC would have bitched about Sega not releasing new hardware after the Saturn as well. They bitch about everything. They bitch about everything now, even though there's a ton of good stuff out there to play. If they can't find it then they should just stop looking and find another hobby. Unless, of course, their hobby is being a bitch.

Now Sega's a third party and they've put out some really good stuff. Bitch, bitch, bitch, bitch, bitch...

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Originally Posted by Scourge

People who piss and moan about Sega screwing them over with DC should realize that it was the mainstream gamer who screwed them.

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Fair enough. The DC had some amazing games, but when going up against the PS2 you might as well call it quits. I wouldn't be so upset had they at least given the DC a few goodies to go out on. Instead they shifted everything else to other systems. So I am just whining, but that's only because I really wanted to play Shenmue II. :cry:

SC

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Originally Posted by spacecowboy

Fair enough. The DC had some amazing games, but when going up against the PS2 you might as well call it quits. I wouldn't be so upset had they at least given the DC a few goodies to go out on. Instead they shifted everything else to other systems. So I am just whining, but that's only because I really wanted to play Shenmue II. :cry:

SC

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It's not like Shenmue 2 was hard to come by. I picked it up at a Gamestop store for $55 and with a Gameshark Lite it worked just fine.

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Originally Posted by gamevet

It's not like Shenmue 2 was hard to come by. I picked it up at a Gamestop store for $55 and with a Gameshark Lite it worked just fine.

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Yah, I saw the European version, but I don't have a Gameshark and at the time, I didn't have $55. Now I see it at the store for $20 on XBox. Maybe I should just buy it and borrow someone elses XBox.

SC

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Originally Posted by Scourge

I wish people would realize that the Dreamcast failed because the unwashed masses didn't buy it; circular reasoning on the part of the consumer.

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There's no such thing as "unwashed masses" - outside of Star Trek geeks that don't shower. Customers in America are for the most part very smart with their money. And $200 is a lot of money to spend on a videogame system from a company who had a track record as bad as Sega's at the time.

The Dreamcast failed because Sega fucked a lot of people over with the SegaCD, 32X, and Saturn. PERIOD. Nobody likes getting fucked in the ass by a big company once, let alone twice, let alone three times, or wait FOUR TIMES! Sega fucked up. They shouldnt have released the Dreamcast because EVERYBODY knew that would happen...

"hmm... should I buy this $200 system from a company that has released 3 failed pieces of shit in a row and, or should I wait for this $300 system from a company which released the most popular console ever made?"

"should I buy this Dreamcast system from a company who released the Saturn, which I bought but then I had to buy the PlayStation because Saturn failed, or should I just buy the PlayStation 2 instead?"

Quite frankly, if you fail to see why somebody would choose B, or if you think the "unwashed masses" are stupid for doing so, YOU are the idiot.

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Originally Posted by diffusionx

There's no such thing as "unwashed masses" - outside of Star Trek geeks that don't shower. Customers in America are for the most part very smart with their money. And $200 is a lot of money to spend on a videogame system from a company who had a track record as bad as Sega's at the time.

The Dreamcast failed because Sega fucked a lot of people over with the SegaCD, 32X, and Saturn. PERIOD. Nobody likes getting fucked in the ass by a big company once, let alone twice, let alone three times, or wait FOUR TIMES! Sega fucked up. They shouldnt have released the Dreamcast because EVERYBODY knew that would happen...

"hmm... should I buy this $200 system from a company that has released 3 failed pieces of shit in a row and, or should I wait for this $300 system from a company which released the most popular console ever made?"

"should I buy this Dreamcast system from a company who released the Saturn, which I bought but then I had to buy the PlayStation because Saturn failed, or should I just buy the PlayStation 2 instead?"

Quite frankly, if you fail to see why somebody would choose B, or if you think the "unwashed masses" are stupid for doing so, YOU are the idiot.

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I know quite a few people that don't even know what a Dreamcast or a Saturn is. The casual gamer had no clue of Sega's history. The average consumer only knows what the television or the masses tell them. I'm pretty sure if I asked a person on the street about the 32X, they'd reply with:"What are you talking about?"

So Sony made them gamers, casual or otherwise, and they were happy with their PlayStation. Why wouldn't they buy a PlayStation 2? Especially since it plays their old games. It's called brand loyalty.

A lot of you guys seem to have some ridiculous ideas like there's some Mass Casual Gamer Conspiracy against Sega and the Dreamcast. It's seriously stupid.

Yea, of course the average person is not gonna know that the 32X is. Thats because the 32X is a piece of fucking garbage and knowing what it is would not mean anything to 99.9999% of people's lives. Hell I know what it is and it doesnt matter to me one bit.

Most people are happy with just a PlayStation 2 or Xbox, and thats fine. That may be a tough pill to swallow but that's the case. I bought a very popular Canon digital camera and Im happy with it so I dont need to know about all the other ones that there are and all the manufacturers. It's just useless info.

They dont give a shit about anything else because those systems serve their needs, and they dont waste time on videogame message boards like we do. Why do you feel that they have to know about gaming history or have to know about all the systems?

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Originally Posted by diffusionx

Customers in America are for the most part very smart with their money. And $200 is a lot of money to spend on a videogame system from a company who had a track record as bad as Sega's at the time.

The Dreamcast failed because Sega fucked a lot of people over with the SegaCD, 32X, and Saturn. PERIOD.

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Hmmm? Sounds like you did'nt read your own posts. :lol:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by diffusionx

So Sony made them gamers, casual or otherwise, and they were happy with their PlayStation. Why wouldn't they buy a PlayStation 2? Especially since it plays their old games. It's called brand loyalty.

A lot of you guys seem to have some ridiculous ideas like there's some Mass Casual Gamer Conspiracy against Sega and the Dreamcast. It's seriously stupid.

Yea, of course the average person is not gonna know that the 32X is. Thats because the 32X is a piece of fucking garbage and knowing what it is would not mean anything to 99.9999% of people's lives. Hell I know what it is and it doesnt matter to me one bit.

Most people are happy with just a PlayStation 2 or Xbox, and thats fine. That may be a tough pill to swallow but that's the case. I bought a very popular Canon digital camera and Im happy with it so I dont need to know about all the other ones that there are and all the manufacturers. It's just useless info.

They dont give a shit about anything else because those systems serve their needs, and they dont waste time on videogame message boards like we do. Why do you feel that they have to know about gaming history or have to know about all the systems?

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Diff is the only person on TNL these days that's still in touch with reality.

Yea gamevet... so basically I covered the two situations:

01. People who didnt buy the DC because they bought Sega systems in the past. This is the major reason if you ask me, especially if these people have gamer friends and spread the bad word-of-mouth that Sega so richly deserved.

02. People who didnt buy the DC because they had a PSX and were happy with it and didnt need anything else.

There can be multiple reasons for one thing, you know.

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Originally Posted by omfgninjas

Diff is the only person on TNL these days that's still in touch with reality.

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Maybe so, but he did contradict himself. See the above post.

Uhh no I didnt man. My 2nd post was in response to yours, of the (I would think small) minority of people who have never heard of Dreamcast. Go ahead and read it, I never said that the reason the system failed was because of a lot of gamers that never heard of it... it was very narrowly directed at the type of people you described.

The Dreamcast failed, however, because there was a large number of people who got fucked over by Sega in the past. Ive said it countless times before on this board, I dont know how you would look it up but you can.

You can try to say whatever you want, I contradicted myself or whatever, I dont care. I never met a person in my life who played games but never heard of Dreamcast or Saturn... but if you did, Im not gonna dispute that... however, I provided a simple and reasonable explanation for why that is.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by diffusionx

There's no such thing as "unwashed masses" - outside of Star Trek geeks that don't shower. Customers in America are for the most part very smart with their money. And $200 is a lot of money to spend on a videogame system from a company who had a track record as bad as Sega's at the time.

The Dreamcast failed because Sega fucked a lot of people over with the SegaCD, 32X, and Saturn. PERIOD. Nobody likes getting fucked in the ass by a big company once, let alone twice, let alone three times, or wait FOUR TIMES! Sega fucked up. They shouldnt have released the Dreamcast because EVERYBODY knew that would happen...

"hmm... should I buy this $200 system from a company that has released 3 failed pieces of shit in a row and, or should I wait for this $300 system from a company which released the most popular console ever made?"

"should I buy this Dreamcast system from a company who released the Saturn, which I bought but then I had to buy the PlayStation because Saturn failed, or should I just buy the PlayStation 2 instead?"

Quite frankly, if you fail to see why somebody would choose B, or if you think the "unwashed masses" are stupid for doing so, YOU are the idiot.

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Well, if that's how you feel. Then again, I'm not the one complaining because I got screwed on the Sega CD, 32X and Saturn and STILL bought a DC eventhough "EVERYBODY knew what would happen." You are. Who's the fool here?

Hey, I only bought the Saturn and Dreamcast... besides, I dont care, I wasted my money, I was stupid. But I wont buy another Sega system.

See, I was responding to your moronic comment about how the Dreamcast failed because of the "unwashed masses"... you're absolutely wrong on that.

And when did I say that "EVERYBODY knew that would happen"? I dont think I did. I said that people saw that they had a shitty track record and didnt wanna risk their money... and they decided it would be better to wait for PS2.

Would you buy a video camera from a company with a track record for making shitty video cameras that break a lot, or would you go with a company which released one that a lot of people really liked?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by omfgninjas

Diff is the only person on TNL these days that's still in touch with reality.

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The irony of this post is overwhelming considering you're still one of the people on TNL.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by diffusionx

Uhh no I didnt man. My 2nd post was in response to yours, of the (I would think small) minority of people who have never heard of Dreamcast.

The Dreamcast failed, however, because there was a large number of people who got fucked over by Sega in the past. Ive said it countless times before on this board, I dont know how you would look it up but you can.

You can try to say whatever you want, I contradicted myself or whatever, I dont care. I never met a person in my life who played games but never heard of Dreamcast or Saturn... but if you did, Im not gonna dispute that... however, I provided a simple and reasonable explanation for why that is.

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The Dreamcast failed because everyone and thier brother heard about the next Playstation. It had nothing to do with Sega's past. Most people did'nt know about it; they only knew that they enjoyed the Playstation and that it was cool. It had nothing to do with Sega's past. The Dreamcast did sell over 3.5 million + units in the US, because it offered something different between the Playstation and the release of the PS2. When the PS2 came out, Dreamcast was quickly forgotten.

How does Sega's past equate to what happened?

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Originally Posted by Scourge

The irony of this post is overwhelming considering you're still one of the people on TNL.

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You found no irony that was not intended. You receive no reward.

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Originally Posted by omfgninjas

You found no irony that was not intended. You receive no reward.

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**Damn!**<hangs head in shame>

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Originally Posted by diffusionx

And when did I say that "EVERYBODY knew that would happen"? I dont think I did.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by diffusionx

They shouldnt have released the Dreamcast because EVERYBODY knew that would happen...

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by diffusionx

Hey, I only bought the Saturn and Dreamcast... besides, I dont care, I wasted my money, I was stupid. But I wont buy another Sega system.

See, I was responding to your moronic comment about how the Dreamcast failed because of the "unwashed masses"... you're absolutely wrong on that.

And when did I say that "EVERYBODY knew that would happen"? I dont think I did. I said that people saw that they had a shitty track record and didnt wanna risk their money... and they decided it would be better to wait for PS2.

Would you buy a video camera from a company with a track record for making shitty video cameras that break a lot, or would you go with a company which released one that a lot of people really liked?

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See, now I know you're just trolling, because you're obviously purposefully making nonsensical remarks, even about yourself. And that last sentence, "Would you buy a video camera from a company with a track record for making shitty video cameras that break a lot, or would you go with a company which released one that a lot of people really liked?", an obviously subversive veiled remark about the success of Sony's electronics, is just brilliant. Keep up the good work man.

Uhh no I wasnt thinking of Sony when I said that... if you ask me you're just so paranoid about it all that you are coming up with that. To be honest I was gonna say digital camera, but I already brought that up so I just changed it.

And yea, dude, I did make a mistake buying Dreamcast. Ill admit to it. Im not perfect or the wonderful amazing hardCORE!!! gamer... and Im not a hardCORE!!! debater on message boards that cant admit to doing something wrong or regretting a purchase.

I liked some of the games on it (see my latest "Let's diffusionx" thread), but overall I definitely think I threw $200 down the drain, especially since, hey, I cant buy new releases on it now. I fucked up, whatever. Could've spent those $200 on crack or something.

And dang Johnpv, caught me. I walked right into that one. :)

I am bringing this up just because Im sick of hearing about the "casual gamers" and the "unwashed masses" and how they are everything wrong with gaming and they are fucking everything up. You know, its not the Casual Gamer Boogyman that fucks things up, and everytime somebody brings that up I can come up with a logical, reasonable explanation that doesn't involve some massive conspiracy involving people that just play Madden.

I know you want to believe what GameFan told you all those years ago about the sheeple and how they are your enemy, but man, thats kiddy logic. Time to move on.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by diffusionx

Uhh no I wasnt thinking of Sony when I said that... if you ask me you're just so paranoid about it all that you are coming up with that. To be honest I was gonna say digital camera, but I already brought that up so I just changed it.

And yea, dude, I did make a mistake buying Dreamcast. Ill admit to it. Im not perfect or the wonderful amazing hardCORE!!! gamer... and Im not a hardCORE!!! debater on message boards that cant admit to doing something wrong or regretting a purchase.

I liked some of the games on it (see my latest "Let's diffusionx" thread), but overall I definitely think I threw $200 down the drain, especially since, hey, I cant buy new releases on it now. I fucked up, whatever. Could've spent those $200 on crack or something.

And dang Johnpv, caught me. I walked right into that one. :)

I am bringing this up just because Im sick of hearing about the "casual gamers" and the "unwashed masses" and how they are everything wrong with gaming and they are fucking everything up. You know, its not the Casual Gamer Boogyman that fucks things up, and everytime somebody brings that up I can come up with a logical, reasonable explanation that doesn't involve some massive conspiracy involving people that just play Madden.

I know you want to believe what GameFan told you all those years ago about the sheeple and how they are your enemy, but man, thats kiddy logic. Time to move on.

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a) I'm not hardcore. I much more lean to casual. And I, unlike many, know the importance of the mainstream in creating a really thriving industry, so... One wrong.

b) I never was a fan of GameFan. Two wrong.

I don't regret my dc purchase. When I look at the number of games I own for any system, the DC is even on average.

And lighten up. The Sony thing was a joke.

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Originally Posted by soundwave

I hope Sega succeeds. I don't know where the anti-Sega hostility is coming from--sure they fucked on the business side for years but the majority of their games this year are solid releases. PDO, VF4: EVO, F-Zero, Billy Hatcher, Monkey Ball 2, GBA stuff, and the ESPN sports titles (granted PSO and Sonic Adventure 2 were rehashes). I'm very happy with my Sega purchases this year and I look forward to VO: MARZ. I think a lot of the bitching is about the games they AREN'T releasing/developing like Shenmue, Rez, Nights sequels etc. I dunno why anyone would want tehm to go away... :(

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Exactly!

VF4EVO is the best fighting game ever. NHL2k4 is the best hockey game ever, although it isn't as big as an accomplishment because their only competition is NHL2004, which isn't much comp at all. Also F-Zero is arguably the best futuristic racer ever. Panzer Dragoon just flat out rocks. NBA and NFL are also WAY up there in their respective genres.

So if you're not a fighting game, sports game, or racing fan then yeah, I guess Sega sucks and don't deserve to make profit. Don't worry though, the people bitching now that love their toher games like Phantasy Star, Shining Force, and Skies of arcadia etc., will get your quality software sooner or later.

I guess that's what you get for covering almost every single genre. People will bitch about your software no matter what cause they don't always get the sequels or types of games they want.

Bottomeline is Sega's output has slowed down but what do you expect? They are making games for every system now. I think it's time to give them some time between release before bitching. They still make more games than Namco atleast. probably made more than Capcom has as well so far.

About them making more profit then they should, eh..... Let's just say EA makes the most profit ever and they are certainly not the best developer/publisher quality wise. So even if you think the current Sega games suck, it doesn't mean they can't sell without selling VC to Sony.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NeoZeedeater

In regards to Anti-Sega hostility, some people need to look at the business and developer sides of the company as separate. Sega as a developer of great games should not be hated because of the stupid decisions made by the people running the company.

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I bear no ill-will to the developers who make good games. I'e simply had it with Sega. I continued "pulling for" the company (the business side) for years based on thier name alone. It's that name I liked a whole lot. Now, it just means crap to me. Hitmaker, Smilebit and the rest of them could make it without Sega... Sega could never make it without them. UGA jumped a sinking ship and... while I was saddend at first, I am kinda happy it happend that way. Time for the rest to peel off and go to damn near ANY other publisher in the business. Sega is dead.

Brief thoughts on Sega-
They've made many, many games that I have enjoyed.
They've made many systems that I have enjoyed, and continue to enjoy to this day.
I don't care about how they do financially as long as they do well enough to make the kind of games that I have enjoyed from them in the past, which is a nice, diverse amount.

They being the devlopers... Sega being the asswipe company that is, quite frankly, full of shit. Like the games, not a brand name.

They being the developers, yes. Far too many to name individually, so I went with "they" as a nice, general term. When I think of "Sega", I don't think of their shoddy business moves that have cost them millions, or sales figures, I think about the many games that their teams have developed that brought me joy.

I don't want Sega to die, I just want them to make more games I'd like to buy.

As it is, there really isn't a lot they make that I want.

I know JSRF is dead, but OR2, Sega Rally 3, Spikeout or something would be cool.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by diffusionx

Hey, I only bought the Saturn and Dreamcast... besides, I dont care, I wasted my money, I was stupid. But I wont buy another Sega system.

See, I was responding to your moronic comment about how the Dreamcast failed because of the "unwashed masses"... you're absolutely wrong on that.

And when did I say that "EVERYBODY knew that would happen"? I dont think I did. I said that people saw that they had a shitty track record and didnt wanna risk their money... and they decided it would be better to wait for PS2.

Would you buy a video camera from a company with a track record for making shitty video cameras that break a lot, or would you go with a company which released one that a lot of people really liked?

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They would actually have to make another console for you to not buy it.

And keep in mind folks that the fact you could download most games off of some French website ( yes WEBSITE, not even FTP or IRC ) - sometimes a week before retail launch, and burn them to a 25 cent CD-R and then play them in just about ANY stock Dreamcast at the time had absolutely NOTHING at all to do with it's demise............