How would an ideal society be to you?

Don't make many threads here, but with alot of politics flying in the air you sometimes wonder: To what end?

I'm not asking so much what your utopia would be (the end result of it where everyone lives all happy like and there's no suffering and so on). I'm more curious as to what things you think are best for mankind. What should be done? What roads do we take? What policys and philosopies do we adopt? The inital question is vauge and thus lends itself to vauge responces but try to elaborate on what things you think should be done and what you belive the results of those things would be. I understand this is not a light topic, but I figure light 5 word back-and-forth is best left in Fight Club or AIM.

Me and a hut. I've never been too keen on people that aren't me.

Heh.. I can't definitly understand that feeling.

I think the Native American society was pretty bad ass, work or hunt all day for your tribe, come home sit around the fire, smoke peace pipe, lay pipe to wife after...in my hut. I dunno something more communal than our current society. Lil mo love.

Me as the only man to 20,000 women.

Get's no better than that for a good 14 years.

I'd like to change my answer.

Piles of weed, chicks everywhere, all types of chicks...

and a guitar.

I cannot give a blanket thesis statement on what my ideal society would be, so I'll just do it in snippets.

In my ideal society religion, sexuality, morality, and politics would be highly personalized and not a subject for discrimination, alienation, or stereotyping.

Individuals would be allowed to compete in a free-market economy, but would be held to a higher standard of ethics in their practices and businesses held accountable both financially and legally for their screw-ups, cover-ups, and general exploitation.

The military would be scaled down dramatically and focused more on contributing to an international force than being a unilateral one.

More resources would be allocated to the educational system; refining our methods, becoming more meticulous in what we teach our children and who we have teach it, and a stronger focus on concrete knowledge than nationalized propaganda. Private schools would NOT receive public funding of any sort.

Healthcare would be totally free, but patients would be asked to rate doctors and hospitals on the performance of their duties. Naturally, those who received higher ratings would be entitled to greater salaries and more funds from the state, while those who scored lower would be evaluated by a national health committee and actions taken based on said evaluation.

The environment would be defended far more vehemently, and headed by someone hired on their credentials rather than political appointment. Industries which did not uphold federal environmental regulations would be forced to pay hefty fines. Proven harm done to citizens by pollutants or byproducts of corporate negligence would be entitled, by law, to a lump sum payment which would cover their medical and living expenses for the duration of their treatment (this includes both terminal or lifetime illnesses). Their condition would be regularly monitored to ensure no one was simply exploiting the system.

The legal system would remain innocent until proven guilty, but all attorneys would be court appointed and held to a high standard of performance which would be regularly monitored and reviewed.

I'm sure there's a lot more I'd want in my ideal society, but that's all I can think of at the moment. I might add more later, though.

EDIT: Ah, arjue made me think of something I need to add.

Parents would be held more accoutable for their children's actions. There would be no censorship of culture in the way of books, videogames, movies, or music. But, mature-themed material would be labeled appropriately. It would be the responsibility of the parent to decide whether they believe their child is mature enough to handle such media.

A society more dedicated to science, and less property and conflict seems most ideal to me. As a species Humanity has so much potential and it's always being ruined. I recall reading alot about the Crusades and the history before it (though wrought with its own conflicts) was brighter and more advanced than 500 - 1300 AD were. Alexandria, Egypt was, historically, a really kickass place. The Holy Roman Empire crushed it around 200 AD but it was a great cosmopolitan place where numerous scientific discoveries were made, the most advanced ideas in math in the west was pioneered (it was known for a long time the Earth was round for instance). Same with the Mayans untill the Spanish came. Their astounding use of mathematics, medicine (at that time) and astronomy were simply unparalleled by anything in the West or in Asia. I guess that happends when your civilization was as old as thiers was. I think about those times and what would have been if they just continued uninterupted and unspoiled.

I like where were at, in respect to our learning and knowledge - and why not of course. We're further ahead now than ever but then we should be and within reason we should be further yet. I see so much conflict though and the things that drive our innovation are the pursuit of weapons or to make our TVs funnier. There's so much conflict and there's so much removal from the natural world that we seldom think about it and, as far as the average person goes, we know less and less about it. Children are more fond of playthings made in Taiwan rather than the big trees in thier backyard or play on a nice day. Rainy weather used to give me the blues when I was a kid because I couldn't play capture the flag with my friends or swim and all that - many now can stay inside to do what they normally do. Play with computers and game machines and watch the TV screen. What can I say? I do too. I feel old because of it.

Then, a small place northeast of the African continent is more important than the very condition of the whole planet. I'm not a militant greenpeace type but the care for the well being of the planet as well as the intellect of our society is diminishing. Our librarys hold more information, but how much ground are we making? We could have been further along and even still reguardless of that, we could be doing a whole lot better. How are we planning to deal with the climate? How are we prepareing to deal with the impending energy crisis? The forests are declineing but are we doing anything about it? Will there only be preserves left (if even that)?

6 Billion people can consume alot in 30 years. Where will we be then? All I've seen is petty politics, consumerism and general waste while science and preservation and concern are left by the wayside. Just like people who concern themselves with questioning the actions and even the motives of government are labled unpatriotic, people who bother themselves with the very real problems of the environment are labled as hippie tree-huggers. What happend? The Universe is a big place, the Earth is a beautiful place and Humans are capable of so much. It seems a waste, but good things happen still. We are moving, but I'm not sure if it's entirely in the right direction but if there's a world for any kids I might have I'd like it if these questions are never common.

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Originally Posted by Tracer

Rainy weather used to give me the blues when I was a kid because I couldn't play capture the flag with my friends or swim and all that - many now can stay inside to do what they normally do. Play with computers and game machines and watch the TV screen. What can I say?

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Amen, regardless how great a party or bar is, Im always drinking outside.

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Originally Posted by diffusionx

Piles of weed, chicks everywhere, all types of chicks...

and a guitar.

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I'm expecting that a signifigant portion of posts will reflect this one.

I'd like to live in a world with no hatred or suffering, filled with freedom and possibility.. barring that I'd settle for one with giant monsters and hoverbikes, that would be awesome!

The Johnny?

I like what g0zen and Tracer said.

-embraces art (without financial tarnish) as much as it does the mighty dollar.

-A non party based political system

-a society based on a balance between individuality and community instead of fashion and self.

-nothing will be censored, just graded in detail to keep young people from witnessing innapropriate things. Viewer discression will be the key.

-education will be about learning and not about accreditation

One where humans don't exist.

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Originally Posted by diffusionx

Piles of weed, chicks everywhere, all types of chicks...

and a guitar.

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Sounds good to me.

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Originally Posted by Survival Kid

One where humans don't exist.

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Without actually joking, we're a lot closer to your ideal than anyone elses.

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Originally Posted by Tracer

The Johnny?

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No sorry, I'm just a poor imitation made primarily from dried guacomole and copper wiring. The real Johnny was abducted by space octopi a year ago and hasn't been seen since.

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Originally Posted by Survival Kid

One where humans don't exist.

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So where the fuck would you be?

You wouldn't be surviving, that's for sure.

Anyway, you sound like a furry right there - "stupid humans, *howls at the moon*"

I think it would be pretty cool if you had a democratic system where you vote for parties to take over certain portfolios, instead of the all or none system.

For instance:
You could vote for the Democrats to run Health Care and Education,
the Republicans to run Defence and Imigration,
and the Greens to run the Environment.

And the party which would have controlled all portfolios in the old system would have the budget. But you'd have to set a budget protocol in the constitution so that party couldn't starve the portfolios run by opposing parties.

I'd like it better if the very budget was determined by the people. Taxes are paid and we do so because the government provides various services. People must pay a set amount but what that total goes to is determined by the person paying. That would move the democracy closer to a democracy as opposed to a straight republic. Politicians would be relegated more to the level of accountants instead of powerfull governors of many peoples lives.

Benefits recived by the taxpayer would be determined by the taxes he/she pays.

Good call!

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Originally Posted by Tracer

Benefits recived by the taxpayer would be determined by the taxes he/she pays.

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So... rich people would get the most? The people that need it the least?

I see tons of problems with your ideas on how the people decide where their taxes go to (I know, I know), for example, yea I wouldnt like my money going to the military, but what would happen to this (or any other) country without a military?

It just wouldn't work, dude.

I deleted that because I wasn't myself clear on the exact way to go about that but one thing I would be certian about it that it would be base on percentages of amount due and not overall sums.

And naturally there are some cogs that are not in place. Perhaps a preset amount is already given to nesesities like defence, education and health care.

...and now I look stupid =(

But wait... if the people would decide how their taxes were spent, you'd be giving more power to the rich, since they'd be paying more taxes.

Humm, that is true. 1 very rich person pays such and such for one program while thousands of lower class could pay for another and that program would still be funded less. I get that. Then again, with the distrobution of wealth being so uneven the 1% of the population would be contending with the other 99% of the people. The 1% of the population would account for 85% - 90% or so of all tax dollars - perhaps less (simply by cutting the overall amount taxed). There's still an inequality but I sometimes find it hard to give enough voice to the lower - middle class without taking away the rights of the upper class simply because they've earned a wealth. The idea might not work, no matter the tweaking one might do. But I would like it if I decided where my taxes went somehow.

Maybe its better to leave that uncertainty in, after all if you knew and decided where your taxes went you couldn't say "I pay this crook's salary!" or "my tax dollars are paying for that stupid shuttle" when you got mad at the government.

The general portfolio idea is really good, but would obviously need some tweaking. I think tracers idea would be favorable, with a set floor amount going to each portfolio, and then the public decide where the rest goes (say, 20%). I don't think the public should have full control over where their tax goes, as alot of us don't understand how important certain things are. For instance, people who say shit like "I don't want my money going to dole bludgers!" are ultimately raising social inequality and increasing crime and unrest.

What do you's think of a leader? personally, I'd prefer a committee type leadership full of publicly voted people that actually work together, but realistically, they'd just bicker constantly, so I guess a figure head is necessary.

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Originally Posted by AstroBlue

But wait... if the people would decide how their taxes were spent, you'd be giving more power to the rich, since they'd be paying more taxes.

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actually, if you look at the very rich, they often pay less tax due to really talented accountants, so in reality the middle class may finally get their say.

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Originally Posted by arjue

What do you's think of a leader? personally, I'd prefer a committee type leadership full of publicly voted people that actually work together, but realistically, they'd just bicker constantly, so I guess a figure head is necessary.

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Well, the figure head could just be voted in the same way as the American president is. But with the portfolio system, he would really have no clout, and would be well... just a figure head.

The upper house (senate) would not change, which is where the bickering is and always be. The portfolio system would just change the lower house.

EDIT: Er... in Australia (since I was talking to arjue).

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Originally Posted by AstroBlue

Well, the figure head could just be voted in the same way as the American president is. But with the portfolio system, he would really have no clout, and would be well... just a figure head.

The upper house (senate) would not change, which is where the bickering is and always be. The portfolio system would just change the lower house.

EDIT: Er... in Australia (since I was talking to arjue).

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hmmm, good point. The leader would be more of an embassidor really, maintianing relations with other countries.

I just want every country to mind their business, accept every person's differences, and leave everyone the fuck alone.

In my perfect world, I would be the sole sovereign ruler of everything. I would be the supreme Emperor, all would bow before me. I would solve all social and economic problems with my IRON FIST. People who cause problems would recieve a swift and terrible justice for my amusement. Those who do good things for the world will be rewarded.

Someday... *plotting*

No more WWE for you buddy.

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Originally Posted by Dolemite

I just want every country to mind their business, accept every person's differences, and leave everyone the fuck alone.

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Just the opposite for me. BIG BROTHER: TEH WORLD!!!

Conflict, strife, danger, and humiliation for everyone! Hehe.


But my serious world would be one exactly like we have today. I think we're doing just fine.

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Originally Posted by diffusionx

So where the fuck would you be?

You wouldn't be surviving, that's for sure.

Anyway, you sound like a furry right there - "stupid humans, *howls at the moon*"

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Certainly not alive.

I'm sayin' though. People take take take and don't really give shit back. We fuck up the enviornment and shit and what we do to try and make up for that is so insignificant it's almost pointless. Sure, there are a lot of really great things about humanity, like the various cultures, music, video games, delicious food and whatnot, but all that good shit really isn't any match for the massive amounts of destruction we cause. Whether it be through war, pollution, mining, logging... If there's one species of animal this planet can most certainly do without, no doubt it's humans.

A rather basic world where technology existed 19th century type. Basically a less privaleged place then most of us live in today, from my experiance these type of societies seem to be better off and happier.

I'd like for religion to be less organized and more personal.

And what would actually make me totally happy: to live in a cityscape designed with the incorporation of the natural environment in mind with buildings in the same vein as those by architects Frank Gehry and Frank Lloyd Wright.

I'd say less crime and a more friendly society, better health plans and no world hunger but that would put about half of the people on this earth without jobs. so scratch that, as it would make the world even sadder.

teleportation = my ideal world

I want a huge mass extinction event to occur and be a part of the 2% of the populace to survive. Something like the world of Fist of the North Star, just not with giant people in biker gangs and dudes who can make your head explode with one finger.

As long as I still have a huge stash of pot seeds I'll be fine and I'm a natural scavenger.

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Originally Posted by Gohron

A rather basic world where technology existed 19th century type. Basically a less privaleged place then most of us live in today, from my experiance these type of societies seem to be better off and happier.

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Yea! So you can work in some factory 15 hours a day to make 30 cents, but you got this awful cough that is from all the inhalants you breathe in during work, but you can't quit or get any disability payments because there is no union and the factory can hire someone to take your place in 20 minutes. So you walk back home, into the cold snow and back to your tenement home where you are living with 5 other families. Oh, and your son? He has go to the factory, too, he's only 9 but you need the money. And your little daughter has a horrible case of food poisoning from the meat she ate last night and will probably die. But you have no recourse whatsoever.

Great times.

The idea that the 19th century or 18th century was a better time is a goddamn myth with no root in reality. Sure, if you are ultra-rich and on the upper crust of society it was great, but has there ever been a time in history when that was not the case?

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Originally Posted by Lobo

I'd like for religion to be less organized and more personal.

And what would actually make me totally happy: to live in a cityscape designed with the incorporation of the natural environment in mind with buildings in the same vein as those by architects Frank Gehry and Frank Lloyd Wright.

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Religion, for me, is entirely personal. There is no organization for worship because worship is archaic.

But that city would be like Rivendell heh.

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Originally Posted by diffusionx

Yea! So you can work in some factory 15 hours a day to make 30 cents, but you got this awful cough that is from all the inhalants you breathe in during work, but you can't quit or get any disability payments because there is no union and the factory can hire someone to take your place in 20 minutes. So you walk back home, into the cold snow and back to your tenement home where you are living with 5 other families. Oh, and your son? He has go to the factory, too, he's only 9 but you need the money. And your little daughter has a horrible case of food poisoning from the meat she ate last night and will probably die. But you have no recourse whatsoever.

Great times.

The idea that the 19th century or 18th century was a better time is a goddamn myth with no root in reality. Sure, if you are ultra-rich and on the upper crust of society it was great, but has there ever been a time in history when that was not the case?

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I only said 19th century technology:P I didn't mean a society based upon 19th century America or Europe. Although now that I think about it maybe go back in time a bit more (and I don't mean diseases either).

The same as we have now, but with poor people having consistently good housing, and thus providing people with jobs to take care of them on a hugely consistent basis with tons of funding. I'd eliminate the bottom rung altogether.

Probably impossible. So if it is, then just like it is now but with me having a trillion dollars in the bank.

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I only said 19th century technology:P I didn't mean a society based upon 19th century America or Europe. Although now that I think about it maybe go back in time a bit more (and I don't mean diseases either).

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You mean 19th century technology except for all of the modern technology that we would need to make up for many of the technological faults of the era? Because that sort of society is what we have now. If you want a safe "old timey" experience, go to a renaissance fair, or whatever it is they call the "19th century-ish" fair.

For me. .. I suppose everyone as a whole would be better off if people acted for the sake of everyone instead of themselves more often. A genuine shift to that sort of philosophy in certain aspects of life would be good, and an attempt making such a philosophy the law for people that actually believe it would probably cause problems, but I haven't given it much thought so I'll leave it at that.

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Originally Posted by MVS

Me as the only man to 20,000 women.

Get's no better than that for a good 14 years.

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I see a problem with that.

All the newspapers would read like Cosmo, stores would be stocked completely with feminine products, radio would be all schmaltzy love-songs, and TV would be nothing but shows like Oprah and Dharma and Greg.


Some things work best only in theory.

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Originally Posted by rezo

You mean 19th century technology except for all of the modern technology that we would need to make up for many of the technological faults of the era? Because that sort of society is what we have now. If you want a safe "old timey" experience, go to a renaissance fair, or whatever it is they call the "19th century-ish" fair.

For me. .. I suppose everyone as a whole would be better off if people acted for the sake of everyone instead of themselves more often. A genuine shift to that sort of philosophy in certain aspects of life would be good, and an attempt making such a philosophy the law for people that actually believe it would probably cause problems, but I haven't given it much thought so I'll leave it at that.

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Maybe I should've been more clear, basically I just mean independant working communities without focus on government or economy in a large scale manner. A world with little focus on all the BS that makes everybody so angry and miserable all the time.

I can't fathom an ideal world. I have to live in this one so I just make lemonade when need-be.

An ideal world would be steampunk themed.

Would all the kids be spunky and have unusuall monster pets as well as green/red/blue hair?

About people choosing where their tax dollars go:

I've always wanted a system like this. There would be problems with this, because there are a lot of things we actually need that people might not think to choose as the destination of their dollars. That’s what I think we should have a point priority system between the government and the tax payers. When you fill out your taxes, I believe that you should assign a priority to different fields. Like lets say I attribute 100% of my tax money to the space program, and 0% of it to military spending. The Government also gets a say in this also. Lets say that maybe they voted for 100% military spending and 0% for the space program, well they get an average of my ratio and their ratio, so I'n reality 50% of my money would go to the space program and 50% to military spending.

This question is rather easy to answer, an ideal society would be one that doesn't have humans ruling other humans.

Mankind has tried every sort of government they can think of, with varying degrees of success. But the end result is that none hasn't even come close to being ideal. That's proof enough that humans cannot successfully rule themselves.

--Benjamin

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Originally Posted by Benn93Z28

This question is rather easy to answer, an ideal society would be one that doesn't have humans ruling other humans.

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This isn't possible unless you can change human nature...and governments don't necessarily "rule" people (atleast they shouldn't) but they are set up to lead and guide society.

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Originally Posted by DOVESKI

No more WWE for you buddy.

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:cry:

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Originally Posted by Gohron

A rather basic world where technology existed 19th century type. Basically a less privaleged place then most of us live in today, from my experiance these type of societies seem to be better off and happier.

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experience? how old are you?

Heres my take. This biggest problem with this world is people. Whatever dignity as a race we might have ever had just keeps on dropping. Corrupted by greed, constantly judging others lives and choices. The more wholesome view of the 19th century stems from the nessessities not being filled. When all we were worried about was food and survival, then we acted like one would expect. But once these needs are fufilled, then, as a race, we begin to show our true colors. Money ruling all is a depressing example of this race succuming to the bounds set forth by darwinism. That is not to say that we have achieved nothing. Culture, music, art of any form, expression of the individual. Every instance of this amazes me more than any advances we have ever had in technology, science, and math ever had. I can sit back, and listen to a song from Nobou Uematsu, and realize we have so much to offer as a race, we are capable of so much. So, for my utopian society. I do not believe in absolute happiness, or non-existant conflict, because i think happiness is a quantitative term, and i think that strife is a nessessity in life. I wish there was a world where people respected others lives. Where your expression of yourself, in whatever form you felt most comfortable, be it guitar, prose, action, or games, was how you were remebered. Nobility and honor were better respected than self survival. I wish i could die for what i believe in, for something worthwhile. Yet, in this day, I find nothing worth dieing for. I wish that wasn't so.

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Originally Posted by arjue

experience? how old are you?

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190...I've experianced less privelaged societies, like Trinidad. Trinidad isn't dirt poor but it's certainly not the US and I love it down there. Maybe my perspective would changed if I was down there for a long period of time, maybe not, but all I really would like to have is a decent car to drive, a decent place to live, and a computer.