The Next Level of Video Games

I remember when things like "blast processing" among other fancy terms got thrown around during the 2D era. It made everything feel like the next best thing was around the corner. As the 2D games started to phase out as developers were still experimenting with 3D graphics, our gaming systems began to do more than just play games. They started playing our music CD's, our movies, and soon we could do more than simply compete with our friends across the room, but across the nation; or further.

Soon, we will witness another "revolutionary" moment in history as Nintendo and Sony clash this holiday season introduce the PSP and "Nintendo: DS".

With the imminent release of the "next" console era, how much more do you think our beloved gaming systems can evolve? If there's still room for innovation, what do you feel is lacking and what would you like to see in the future?

Discuss.

I'm currently happy with what is available now. I'm kind of dissappointed that next gen hardware is right around the corner. There is so much potential left in the current generation. Handhelds are a different story though.

i think voice is the next big area. you see it already a little with Manhunt and other games, but when you can talk to the game and have it respond, intelligently, then we will see the next level.

I hope the next generation of systems are incapable of running any games that don't have "Street Fighter IV" In the title.

I'm thinking that bringing the player into the game more, like with voice stuff, and the EyeToy, will be a big part of things in the future. Of course, all of the fancy hardware in the world won't do much good if developers can't harness the potential of it. Hopefully, that won't be the case with the next generation.

In a couple gens we're really going to see a plateau, honestly. We're already gettng to the point where technology isn't as much of a constraint as time and money. That's going to become more and more true with coming gens until systems can really handle pretty much anything we actually have the resources to make.

I can't wait till the next generation, as I'm tired of what the PS2 can do graphically. I agree with Frog, the plateau for possibilites graphics-wise isn't far off. When you have something like a Grant Theft Auto that takes place in enourmous cities, has tons of people to talk to, and a Max Payne quailty combat engine, then I'd say the ceiling has been hit.

I really don't give a fuck about any of this shit, to be honest.

Graphics can only go so far, eventually they will reach their limit I agree... I think online gaming still has a way to go, with the next generation systems I would like to see better use of it and I would expect that is something their aiming for as well.

Once the graphic wow is gone developers will actually have to be imaginative again, the days of simple graphics tricks won't work anymore... it's about time anyway ;)

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Originally Posted by Frogacuda

In a couple gens we're really going to see a plateau, honestly. We're already gettng to the point where technology isn't as much of a constraint as time and money. That's going to become more and more true with coming gens until systems can really handle pretty much anything we actually have the resources to make.

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Maybe then devs will start to focus on content again instead of hours of CG cinemas. :p And I don't think that voice or video interaction are new or really very exciting at all. To me they seem more, "Gee whiz, look at that" than an actualy progression of interaction. Any idiot can tell you that graphics will get better, sound and video will get better but I want to know when we are really going to see a renaissance in game design?

When are we going to see the next level in control from a hardware (controllers, specifically) and software perspective? I want a controller that doesn't limit me with odd button (NGC) and stick configurations (Dualshock) and doesn't hurt my hands (Old Xbox). I want a decent ingame camera that I can control *if* I want to. I want something besides "go find this to go here and do this" gameplay - something new *or* something old done correctly for the first time.

I think the next level in games will come when people get over how pretty the next Final Fantasy game is, start noticing that bad design and implementation ruins games, and begin to realize that supporting and demanding quality software is good for everyone. :D

Hey. I can dream, can't I?

The GC/GBA connectivity has been 'meh', but I would like to see the next-gen controllers have a screen or screen attachment. I like the concept of managing items or doing secondary actions without having to interrupt gameplay (see FF:CC). As stupid as the Nintendo DS is, the concept of having two screens doing separate things isn't bad. It just shouldn't be implemented on a portable system.

Of course, the screen controller (or screen attachment) must be packed in with the console, or else developers will never use the technology (see GC/GBA connectivity).

Graphics have a long, long way to go, seeing as what people say they want is realistic 3D. Frankly, most 3D graphics blow huge meaty chunks. Proof- go outside. Look at the details like people, moving cars, trees (anything living, actually), and "draw distance". Turn in a circle, then look up. Now go inside and find the prettiest, best designed game you can and do the same, keeping the earlier images clearly in mind. Notice a difference?

Audio in games is fine. Better voice acting would be nice in the games that need it, and less voice acting in RPGs would be nice due to the time difference between reading and listening, but otherwise it's perfectly fine by me what can be done with audio these days.

As for the important bit, gameplay, I don't really think a new console or a few new generations of consoles will effect its evolution. Games and gameplay are generally muscled into whatever console is available, and evolutions in game design happen more by what's popular at the moment than because of technological limitations.

Out of time, the world calls. The paragraph on graphics and graphic stylings will have to wait until later. Go look at the central hub world in Stretch Panic to get an idea of where I'd go with it, though.

James

Wherever the next level of videogames go, I know that they begin here.

Graphics, a lot better. Heck, the Xbox's graphical abilities is like 2x that of PS2 (not technical, just from my own non-technical way of quantifying this).

But gameplay wise, I think it hasn't really progress that much at all since the days of PSOne/Saturn.

Honestly, there was a big jump in terms of gaming innovations from 16bit to 32bit b/c you can't really do 3D properly (if at all) during the SNES/Genesis era. But with the Saturn/PSOne, you start to see some cool (if elementary) games being made, like 3d platformers, action adventures, first person shooters, racing, fighting, etc etc etc. I am not saying they are all good, but they were something different.

But since then, all we really get is better graphics. We are playing the same (or very similar) games from the past 2 generations now, they just look prettier.

That's why sometimes I get very excited when something truly innovative comes along and try to do something so different. The one example I am thinking of is Steel Battalion. Sure you got mech games before (hey, Iron Soldier on the Jaguar was really good! :) But not a true mech "simulators" (which in itself is an oxymoron since it is simulating something that does not exist!), regardless, it is just cool and daring, giving (me) a new experience that really wasn't capable or tried (on a console anyway) before. The custom made controller immerses you further (of course, it came with a hefty price tag).

But I digress. I am still waiting for the next level of videogames. Maybe, there won't be any.

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Originally Posted by James

Graphics have a long, long way to go, seeing as what people say they want is realistic 3D. Frankly, most 3D graphics blow huge meaty chunks. Proof- go outside. Look at the details like people, moving cars, trees (anything living, actually), and "draw distance". Turn in a circle, then look up. Now go inside and find the prettiest, best designed game you can and do the same, keeping the earlier images clearly in mind. Notice a difference?

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Exactly. Graphics are nowhere near close to peaking and likely they never will.

I truly believe gaming's best years are ahead of us. I am very intrigued by the possibilities of AI advancement, more emergent game experiences, and increased control and sensory immersion not attainable in the archaic controllers we still use today.

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Originally Posted by NeoZeedeater

Exactly. Graphics are nowhere near close to peaking and likely they never will.

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They will never peak because what would be the point of spending millions upon millions of dollars for realistic graphics, when the game will never make it's money back. When comparably you can spend less and make decent graphics and a good profit (GTA).

With each upgrade/generation there is less and less improvement. It's the limiting sum of graphics.

Dammit, they promised us fractally-generated trees!

Personally though, I'd be happier with new graphics techiniques designed not to make things look more realistic but rather more stylized. Cel shading is the breakout hit but nobody else has messed around with any other methods of rendering. I think maybe a full game done in Streth Panic hub-world sketch fashion would leave me blind, but there's got to be other things that could be done.

James

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Originally Posted by James

Graphics have a long, long way to go, seeing as what people say they want is realistic 3D. Frankly, most 3D graphics blow huge meaty chunks. Proof- go outside. Look at the details like people, moving cars, trees (anything living, actually), and "draw distance". Turn in a circle, then look up. Now go inside and find the prettiest, best designed game you can and do the same, keeping the earlier images clearly in mind. Notice a difference?

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This is true. Current console are quite adequate for creating attractive fantasy worlds but they can't produce anything that looks a damn like reality.

We have get to see good 3D hair, even.

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Originally Posted by AstroBlue

They will never peak because what would be the point of spending millions upon millions of dollars for realistic graphics, when the game will never make it's money back. When comparably you can spend less and make decent graphics and a good profit (GTA).

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The technology will become cheaper over time.

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Originally Posted by burgundy

The technology will become cheaper over time.

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True, but the man hours needed to render complex 3D models wont.

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Originally Posted by AstroBlue

True, but the man hours needed to render complex 3D models wont.

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Programs which simplify and speed along the process will come along and do exactly that.

I probably should have explained the "fractal trees" comment, I'm guessing. A few years ago they were talking about ways to render complex objects using simple fractal generating thingies. Instead of a comples 3D model, toss in some kind of equation (I'm not up on the details, as you might guess) and let the computer render the lifelike object. Properly done, you'd get the same tree (or whatever) in the same place every time, without having to construct each and every one in the forest.

I'm still waiting for one good tree.

On a tangent, I'm really looking forward to Unity. Near as I can tell, the object textures are dynamically created by the music, or something. No (or few?) hand drawn textures, but a constantly shifting, dynamic effect thingy generated by in-game variables on the fly. I'm guessing the "realism in all things" crowd won't be too excited but I can't wait.

James

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Originally Posted by James

I'm guessing the "realism in all things" crowd won't be too excited but I can't wait.

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I don't think all games should look realistic but I would like to play a perfectly realistic-looking game before I die. Besides, reality is the ultimate benchmark by which to judge what a system can do.

Fractals were in Jurassic Park (SNES) ^_^

Eventually game hardware will jack right into your brain, producing a world you cannot distinguish from reality. Then the robot hordes will enslave us all and spell doom for mankind!! O_o

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Originally Posted by Johnny

Eventually game hardware will jack right into your brain, producing a world you cannot distinguish from reality. Then the robot hordes will enslave us all and spell doom for mankind!! O_o

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We'll become friends with the computer and it'll all turn out right in the end though.

Anyone who has played the Dynasty Warriors series can see consoles still have a long way to go before they can actually run that game without cutting a hundred corners from it.

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Originally Posted by Icepick

I hope the next generation of systems are incapable of running any games that don't have "Street Fighter IV" In the title.

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Did you do that double negative on purpose?

Graphics (and memory to store graphics) are crap right now. We won't get to a decent level of 3D graphics for at least a few generations, if you ask me. As was stated, we don't even have decent polygon hair yet. And graphics need to improve not just for realistic-looking games, but for non-realistic as well. What about a game that looks like a 3D oil painting? Or one where everything looks like a rough sketch? What about cel-shaded games which actually look hand drawn? I want to see graphics improve not just to make things more real, but to also give us the chance to use entirely new graphical styles that we haven't even seen yet.

I think the other important thing is AI. AI so terribly needs a boost. I want to play a fighting game or a racing game or a sports gmae and not know I'm playing against a braindead computer "player." But let's go far beyond that - how about an RPG where the main evil character can actually think and react to what I'm doing, and change his plans to try to stop me? How utterly awesome would that be? Online gaming can help some situations, but we still need good AI to fill in all of the times when you need a great deal of characters thinking for themselves and having those be real people just isn't realistic.

Online, of course, must get a bigger push. EVERY multi-player game that is released should be playable online, no exceptions. As well, once we get that, good voice synthasis would be a great thing to have. Having every character in every game having a voice would be fun.

Of course, before we think about such grand things, how about fixing the problems we have now - most importantly, the laziness of the people making our current games? The fact that I can still go out and purchase a game where my controller buttons aren't totally configurable to my liking is in-excusable.

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Originally Posted by James

I probably should have explained the "fractal trees" comment, I'm guessing.

James

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You didn't have to.

I think status screens should be implemented in controllers, as someone else said. It was cool on the DC and with the GC/GBA, but it should really be something more that's just built in.

i think that within the next 2 or 3 generations, consoles will be able to do (on-screen) just about anything a developer can imagine..

but i hope they suprise me.

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Originally Posted by shidoshi

Of course, before we think about such grand things, how about fixing the problems we have now - most importantly, the laziness of the people making our current games? The fact that I can still go out and purchase a game where my controller buttons aren't totally configurable to my liking is in-excusable.

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I heard that.

The console developer needs to step up and make this issue a TCR (Technical Certification Requirement). These are points that all games must have or they automatically fail certification. The big 3 already have a mountain of these the developers need to adhere to, many of them incidental and trivial (like capitilization of Memory Card) and many of them quite worthy (like restrictions on load times). One that demands button customization needs to be added for the next generation.

Hell, if only one company did it, it'd be akin to a "feature" of that specific console and could be advertised as such. In multiplatform releases this console would have an edge since people would know it would have to have button customization. The other console developers would then follow with their own sort of "unofficial" TCR and before long, a standard would be born.

Am I the only person who remembers when Sony claimed to have "cell tecnology" with the PS3? I still like the PS7 commercial with the spores.

Honestly I would love to see more companies re-vising 2-D graphics. I think that kids would eat up stuff that plays and looks exactly like their saturday morning cartoons. "Cartoon Blast Technology" I get the copyright! |-)

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Originally Posted by Shapermc

Am I the only person who remembers when Sony claimed to have "cell tecnology" with the PS3?

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No, but you might be the only one that even came close to thinking about believing anything Sony ever says about a new console until it is finally sitting on store shelves :p

-edited because you were probably making fun of Sony yourself =D

The very next generation ( PS3, Xbox2, etc...) is pretty easy to predict, more online play, graphics on par with Half-Life 2 as an example, another couple shitty Resident Evil and Mario games.

There's still a long way to go. For example, physics engines are just getting good (I'm thinking Havok), hair and cloth animation can be worlds better. Load times can be improved, and it always annoyed the hell out of me in games like GTA where you see cars/people fade in and out. It'll be great when you can drive down a street or lok wherever you want and not have things fade in and out suddenly. And water effects have a long way to go. And would it fucking kill developers to have all their games check both fucking memory card slots? That shit is just straight up horseshit.

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Originally Posted by Shapermc

Am I the only person who remembers when Sony claimed to have "cell tecnology" with the PS3? I still like the PS7 commercial with the spores.

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No, I remember it quite well, especially since Sony just signed a $1.1 billion deal with IBM to produce the cell processors...

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Originally Posted by burgundy

We have get to see good 3D hair, even.

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http://gamesurf.tiscali.it/anteprima...i_grandi/0.jpg

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Originally Posted by Rumpy

And would it fucking kill developers to have all their games check both fucking memory card slots? That shit is just straight up horseshit.

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Just started to play Xenogears now, and it checks both memory card slots! What ingenuity back in 1998!!!

I'd like to see a future system be powerful enough to render the 3D models from Pulstar and Blazing Star in realtime. I wouldn't bet "all in" that this will happen in the next generation, however.

Seeing Doom III ported perfectly to one of the next-gen consoles wouldn't be bad.

This time, the designers of the systems need to avoid skimping on RAM. 256 MB would be nice- 128 will not be enough. A Saturn style RAM cart slot would be a good thing to have. When the CPU can handle the original game but things like texture detail and total polygon count have to be cut for lack of RAM, that is a shame.

Developers should have their games check ALL memory card slots (a big "thanks" to G.Rev for thinking of that on Border Down, a "damnit" to Treasure for not doing it with Ikaruga). This is great if you're using a Namco stick through a converter to play BD.

If we're talking about memory cards and controllers... why the HELL has the following situation not happened yet?

Let's say you're playing King of Fighters '98 on Dreamcast. It's you and three friends. Each person perfers a different type of controller, or prefer their controllers to have different button set-ups. So, each of you plugs your own controller in, and on the memory card you have your settings saved.

You start a two-player versus game. The first person to register their controller becomes player one. The next person to register becomes player two. Fight, one person loses. From their, and of the three open players can jump in as the next challenger. As soon as their controller is recognized, their button settings are loaded off of their memory card. Hell, you could even have it so that the order the controllers tried to jump in is the order the players will get "nexts" once somebody loses.

I've been in situations before where controller swapping and button settings were changed after each match. Why in the world the fact that we have four controller ports is not being used, I'll never know. Capcom, SNK, Sega, and Namco should especially be ashamed.

I just want wireless pack-in controllers. I don't need any of these other conveniences.

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Originally Posted by shidoshi

If we're talking about memory cards and controllers... why the HELL has the following situation not happened yet?

Let's say you're playing King of Fighters '98 on Dreamcast. It's you and three friends. Each person perfers a different type of controller, or prefer their controllers to have different button set-ups. So, each of you plugs your own controller in, and on the memory card you have your settings saved.

You start a two-player versus game. The first person to register their controller becomes player one. The next person to register becomes player two. Fight, one person loses. From their, and of the three open players can jump in as the next challenger. As soon as their controller is recognized, their button settings are loaded off of their memory card. Hell, you could even have it so that the order the controllers tried to jump in is the order the players will get "nexts" once somebody loses.

I've been in situations before where controller swapping and button settings were changed after each match. Why in the world the fact that we have four controller ports is not being used, I'll never know. Capcom, SNK, Sega, and Namco should especially be ashamed.

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You should be ashamed for a)playing KoF and b)using a controller to do so.

I don't think most people customize console controls enough for this to be a huge issue.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

I just want wireless pack-in controllers. I don't need any of these other conveniences.

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As long as they're rechargeable by plugging them into a receptacle built into the console. If I need batteries, fuggedaboudit.

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Originally Posted by kingoffighters

Just started to play Xenogears now, and it checks both memory card slots! What ingenuity back in 1998!!!

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I'm talking about gamecube games mostly. A lot of times the game just checks slot A for the save file, and in some cases you can't even ask the fucking thing to check slot b. IIRC, mario golf is that way.

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Originally Posted by Damian79

Did you do that double negative on purpose?

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Bitch please... I can't be bothered to have good grammer.

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Originally Posted by Sl1p

You should be ashamed for a)playing KoF and b)using a controller to do so.

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KoF'98 > Any of us.

And I was using a Saturn pad, which so far as I'm concerned, is excusable.

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I don't think most people customize console controls enough for this to be a huge issue.

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The point is, there's no reason to not have that function in place.

I'm still amazed by Blast Processing. :p

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Originally Posted by AstroBlue

They will never peak because what would be the point of spending millions upon millions of dollars for realistic graphics, when the game will never make it's money back.

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Shenmue?

I think the future of gaming should have football. Lots of football. I can only hope.

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Originally Posted by shidoshi

KoF'98 > Any of us.

And I was using a Saturn pad, which so far as I'm concerned, is excusable.




The point is, there's no reason to not have that function in place.

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i actually agree a lot on that function as well.

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Originally Posted by Rumpy

And would it fucking kill developers to have all their games check both fucking memory card slots? That shit is just straight up horseshit.

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GOOD CALL. I hate that bullshit.

it'd be a good call to get rid of memory cards... it's like floppy discs. They're stupid.

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Originally Posted by Tracer

I think the future of gaming should have football. Lots of football. I can only hope.

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And soccer. On two screens. One screen has the gameplay. The other screen has a map.

Man... that would totally rule. Because I get lost when I play soccer.

on that note.. I thin soccer with d20 rules would, in fact, rule.

someone get Bioware on it.

Well, I think we need some sort of way to transport our saved games. The Xbox's internal hard drive is nice but it sucks ass when i have to bring my xbox to a friends place just to show him something. Sure I can get the mem card, but i think if theyre's no available cards or sticks or what not then its a step backwards in next gen gaming.

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Originally Posted by Tracer

Man... that would totally rule. Because I get lost when I play soccer.

on that note.. I thin soccer with d20 rules would, in fact, rule.

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And dialogue... like, you know... branching dialogue.

I think diffx and I have stumbled on the ideal future of gaming. All posts now are pointless.

Bring on the matrix.

Banging skanks in leather outfits, doing some sort of serious head trip drug thing, beating up everyone with 0 effort and shooting everyone I see without consequence.

God, I hope that happens in my lifetime.

I just want hover cars before I die. I swear if we reach that technological step in my lifetime I'll die somewhat happy no matter what.

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Originally Posted by burgundy

GOOD CALL. I hate that bullshit.

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Burg knows what's up. Of course in the cubes case, if they originally made the mem cards not so freaking small, you'd be able to hold more than 4 games on one card.

ive herd that procesing power will come to a wall in the road in maby 30 to 40 yers frome now and wont get any faster. it will just stay the same for a while sense itll be so fast we wont need any faster. and i think by that time we will see the highist point in graphics. then we will see more innovation in gameplay and iteraction with the player.

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Originally Posted by BURN007

ive herd that procesing power will come to a wall in the road in maby 30 to 40 yers frome now and wont get any faster.

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I don't think so. Remember the early days of computers? They used vaccuum tubes and transistors and shit. I'm willing to bet the engineers of those days said things like "We'll never get computers to run at 1 mhz." Then the silicon microchip came along and revolutionized everything. Surely something beyond the microchip will be developed by the middle of the century, along with new possibilities in processing power.

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I don't think so. Remember the early days of computers? They used vaccuum tubes and transistors and shit. I'm willing to bet the engineers of those days said ridiculous things like "We'll never get computers to run at 1 mhz." Then the silicon microchip came along and revolutionized everything. Surely something beyond the microchip will be developed by the middle of the century, along with new possibilities in processing power.

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Quantum Computing. It's already in the works, and it's millions of times more powerful than silicon. Should be in labs around the country by 2010 or 2020 (there's a crude one in Los Alamos as we speak), but who knows when it will trickle down.

But the question is, can it run a dual-screened soccer game based on d20 rules with branching dialogue? If it can't, what's the point?

I predict more & better online quality coupled with the usual leap in graphics for the Next Gen of consoles.

Controllers could still be made better -- especially the dpad part. I often have wondered why the Atari 2600 paddle controllers haven't been imitated. Ever play Kaboom or Breakout using a Playstation controller? It isn't any fun! But those games are a lot more fun when played with paddles. Well, I don't expect Kaboom and Breakout games on the next gen consoles but I'm just making a point about controllers. +1 for DC's fishing controller which made Bass and Marine a LOT of fun.

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Originally Posted by Tracer

on that note.. I thin soccer with d20 rules would, in fact, rule.

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Like Blitzball? Stop it, you're getting me all hard.

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Originally Posted by MechDeus

Like Blitzball? Stop it, you're getting me all hard.

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They have that allready. It's called the "Captain Tsubasa" series. Blitzball ripped it off big time.