Xbox Live content that's MIA...

Playing through KOTOR for the second time, I realized that the DL content for this game never materialized. Neither has any for PGR2 (which was supposed to come out around Christmas). PSO has been agonizingly slow with its content but at least new quests have been posted (the NIGHTS one was pretty cool).

What's going on? R6 Three got some new maps, as did Counter Strike. Crimson Skies has gotten its share. Heck, even SWON has a crapload with more to come.

Where's my KOTOR content?! Where are my new cars?!

Bizarre Creations has said they have yet to decided if they are gonna do DL content. So it could be awhile. The empty showrooms are a horrible cock tease. =(

You mean they might not even include any? That would suck big time. PGR2 screams for new cars and tracks.

It's bullshit they can advertise downloadable content as a feature for some of these games, and then not deliver. Guess it's not very shocking in the end though.

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Originally Posted by NoFace

It's bullshit they can advertise downloadable content as a feature for some of these games, and then not deliver. Guess it's not very shocking in the end though.

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Yeah! How dare they not support downloadable content for free!

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Originally Posted by Damian79

Yeah! How dare they not support downloadable content for free!

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Nobody said anything about money. They put "downloadable content" on the back of the box (see: KOTOR) and offer none. You don't see the problem there?

Think hard now.

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Originally Posted by NoFace

Nobody said anything about money. They put "downloadable content" on the back of the box (see: KOTOR) and offer none. You don't see the problem there?

Think hard now.

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But the thing is they would be seeing how many of the people who actually bought the game before they think it is worth updating. Until enough people subscribe to XBL and/or buy the game, they won't care as they are pissing off a minority(people with XBL) within a minority(with the game aswell). From a business stand point, it won't matter in the long run if they deliver or not on these promises.

Think of the business side of gaming as political, and it would all make sense.

Again, while I can understand what you said there, I'm not talking about money or business here... I'm talking about game content.

It shouldn't be: "We'll include downloadable content (that's advertised on the box) if enough people buy our game!"

It should be: "Our box lists downloadable content, we'll produce at least a few things to make good on our claim."

The notation on the back of the box just means that there are plans for DLable content or that the game supports it. It's not a promise. If developers had content ready to go at release, it would be coded into the game.

No one buys a game because it might have DLable content in the future.

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Originally Posted by burgundy

No one buys a game because it might have DLable content in the future.

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Yeah, nobody would buy a game if they were under the impression the developer would provide new cars and tracks down the road... that's silly!

http://www.lucasarts.com/products/swkotor/

The game's official website has the "DL content on Live" logo, as does the game box itself.

You put that on a box and then don't offer it...that's false advertising.

The fact that the developers said a whole bunch of shit about what the content would contain and how cool it will be only pisses me off even more.

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Originally Posted by NoFace

Yeah, nobody would buy a game if they were under the impression the developer would provide new cars and tracks down the road... that's silly!

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Well you guys may aswell be nobody. What business in the world would make something for free for a whole 2 people?

The same business that would make the game in the first place.

There are 38 pages of people bitching about the DL content over at the KOTOR forums. :p

*EDIT*

Apparently, the DL content Bioware promised has been released for the PC version, which came out months later!

Thank...err, fuck you Bioware!

XBOX Live is gonna be lacking in all content because you can't write your own mods and shit. M$ won't allow it.

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Originally Posted by NoFace

Yeah, nobody would buy a game if they were under the impression the developer would provide new cars and tracks down the road... that's silly!

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Nobody with any common sense would.

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Originally Posted by burgundy

Nobody with any common sense would.

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If a company promises extra content (we'll use PGR2 and extra cars as our example) why wouldn't one consider that extra feature when purchasing the game?

Common sense seems to dictate that extra shelf life of a console game through new content is a good thing. You must be talking about the other common sense.

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Originally Posted by voltz

XBOX Live is gonna be lacking in all content because you can't write your own mods and shit. M$ won't allow it.

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Hey, I like mods as much as the next person but part of the reason M$ (<-haha I'm CLEVER) is all about quality control. The reason XBOX live is set up like it is is stability and consistency. Somebody can create a custom Rainbow 6 map that runs like shit or created a mod which screws up stats tracking or what have you. I understand why Moneysoft (<-Look DOUBLE CLEVER) doesn't want to deal with those headaches. Last time I heard PS2 (or the PSJEW) and the GC (GameCash) weren't allowing mods and such either (hard drives not withstanding). I'm sure some clever XBOX modder out there can reverse engineer some games and make custom mods for his system but thats what they do. As an XBOX Live user I am pretty satisfied with the service and I have not paid for any premium content--the majority of stuff is still free. Again it'll never be as free and as open as the PC but that's it's very good as a console service.

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Originally Posted by NoFace

If a company promises extra content (we'll use PGR2 and extra cars as our example) why wouldn't one consider that extra feature when purchasing the game?

Common sense seems to dictate that extra shelf life of a console game through new content is a good thing. You must be talking about the other common sense.

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If downloadable content was a make-or-break feature for you, you should have waited until said content was available to purchase the game. Otherwise, you got your money's worth, so stop whining.

You have a right to be pissed but it's hardly false advertising. Was it false advertising when Sega promised a bunch of DC games that never happened? It sucked, but good luck suing Sega.

Remember when you said this?

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Originally Posted by burgundy

No one buys a game because it might have DLable content in the future.

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All I'm trying to do is dispute that. You said nobody with common sense would let it factor in, and I'm saying some people who maybe value their dollar a little more would be more enticed by the promise of future content (if it's on the box, it should be in the game, end of story.)

You're right, it's certainly not a make-or-break feature for me, or probably anyone, and nobody but you suggested it was. I don't know about yourself, but there's a lot of things I consider when purchasing an Xbox game, and this feature happens to be one of them. It's not a huge deal (nobody would have passed on KotoR if it lacked downloadable content), but to say it doesn't matter is false.

Fuck, you guys are assholes.

They said downloadable content; it's easy to see why people are disappointed that it never materialized. And money is no excuse, they could just charge for the content like in Mechwarrior and Ultramix.

He's got a right to bitch about it, stop being fucking pricks.

Anyone who doesn't want new cars in PGR2 is a goddamn git.

you k now whats funny too is theres a shitload of games like this that get listed as an XBL game and either never get any content or really dont do shit for XBL and still MS includes them in their totally tally of XBL games

thats really false advertising IMHO

only games with actual existing Downloadable content or games that actually are multiplayer online should be listed as Live games

like Prince of Persia is listed as an XBL game cause it lets your friends know your playing it


i personally understand why Melf is bitching here

weither it was a make or break buying decsion isnt the point
what is the point is that the company promised something and failed to deliver

as a consumer he has the right to bitch about that

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Originally Posted by NoFace

All I'm trying to do is dispute that. You said nobody with common sense would let it factor in, and I'm saying some people who maybe value their dollar a little more would be more enticed by the promise of future content (if it's on the box, it should be in the game, end of story.)

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I said nothing about factoring it in. I meant that no one should buy a game just because of DLable content. If you do, you have really screwed up purchasing priorities.

DLable content cannot be "in the game" no matter what the box says. It's inherently not "in the game."

Anyone can bitch if he likes. Like Pv said, it's a consumer's right. I'm just saying it's not false advertising. If I buy Console X which comes in a box that depicts images of 25 games, and 5 of them never come out, am I the victim of false advertising?

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Originally Posted by Shin Johnpv

weither it was a make or break buying decsion isnt the point
what is the point is that the company promised something and failed to deliver

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Nope, I think you're missing the point.

If Melf (just for the sake of example) would have bought KotOR if it didn't make any reference to Live, and for the same price, then he isn't any worse off if he never gets any new content. He can voice his desire for some content, sure, but this is a far cry from being ripped off.

On the other hand, if Melf wouldn't have bought the game without the promise of DLable content at the same price, then perhaps he can say he was ripped off, but then I'd say he's silly for basing a purchase decision now on a vague promise of future content.

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Originally Posted by soundwave

Hey, I like mods as much as the next person but part of the reason M$ (<-haha I'm CLEVER) is all about quality control. The reason XBOX live is set up like it is is stability and consistency. Somebody can create a custom Rainbow 6 map that runs like shit or created a mod which screws up stats tracking or what have you.

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This makes perfect sense. When I download a fan-made map or mod for a PC game and it sucks, I immediately break the game in two and never purchase that company's product ever again. Because once you download something, it's on your hard drive forever. Allowing mods is such a headache.

Melf is right.
NoFace is right.



there, a couple of sigs for ya.

I can see both viewpopints, but in general I'm with burgundy on this one.

It's not really false advertising unless the company knowingly put something on the bux that they very well know wasn't there or was never planning on doing. Downloadable content might have been planned, (hell, it still could be) but for whatever the reason it's not out yet. It could be that they feel it's not worth the hassle at this point, they left themselves the option for downloadable content even though they had no immediate plans for it, they're still working on it, or they are just too busy on other projects to worry about it (ex: Bioware working on Jade Empire). There can be a whole slew of reasons why it happens, but we honestly don't know for sure.

Complain all you want, as maybe it will get the developers slow to create the content. But so long as the game wasn't unfinished, what does it truly matter that there's no downloadable content?

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Originally Posted by Saint of Killers

This makes perfect sense. When I download a fan-made map or mod for a PC game and it sucks, I immediately break the game in two and never purchase that company's product ever again. Because once you download something, it's on your hard drive forever. Allowing mods is such a headache.

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This is not about shitty maps or mods. I never said I didn't like new maps or mods. I am running under the assumption that providing the tools to users to make mods would not be in Microsoft's best interest plus not all XBOX Live titles are made by MS--the individual publishers would have to provide these tools. These tools would have to be downloaded onto the XBOX itself or perhaps they could have the tools available for a PC and you upload them to the XBOX (like in Music Mixer). Already from this example you have several potential headaches for MS and other XBOX Live publishers. Support for the tools, possible reverse engineering isssues, profanity in these maps/mods. If you have to submit these items that go through a screening process that in itself is more work for MS. Could they do it? Probably. Would the advantages of user mods/maps outweigh the drawbacks. NO. Probably not.

"The notation on the back of the box just means that there are plans for DLable content or that the game supports it."

Well then every game should come with the ability to support DL content just so they can take it off the box or put it on EVERY box (after all, the consumer won't know if it supports it or not if there isn't any to DL). The fact of the matter is that if it's checked on the box, people will think that it is coming because there are tons of boxes that DON'T have it ticked off.

For all I know, any Xbox game supports DL content. The only way you can find out if it does is to actually have some. It's like proving a negative.

It goes without saying that some customers could consider this a form of false advertising. It's sorta like getting a subscription to a magazine, getting your first trial issue, but never receiving the rest of your magazines. You feel cheated and anyone that feels this way is definitely in their right to be a little irritated. I felt that way with Crimson Skies, even after the fact when FASA Studio delivered; simply because the new content sucked. Hopefully PGR2 and KOTOR content is in the works, even if it's just a smatter of new cars and weapons respectively.

I'd be concerned since recent games like Links 2004 and some of Microsoft's XSN games already have had their share of new content, and they've been on the market for a shorter time period.

Bobvilla: Some customers don't even care whether or not their XBox title has DL content, either because they don't have a high-speed connection, an interest in playing online, or both.

Although not exactly revelant to what's presently being discussed in this thread, games like Midtown Madness 3 and Mechassault have tons of D/L'able content for free (with the exception of the one MA d/l). MM3, in particular, has quite a bit of D/L's (new checkpoint races, new cars) to make the purchase of the game very worthwhile.

After all, gamers are looking for values. :)

How good is Midtown Madness? I've been eyeing this one for a while. How does it play exactly?

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Originally Posted by bahn

It's sorta like getting a subscription to a magazine, getting your first trial issue, but never receiving the rest of your magazines.

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Not really. If you subscribe to a magazine, you expect to receive 12 issues. That's what you paid for. When you buy a game, you get your game and you go home. Like I said, if DLable content is so important to you, you should wait on your purchase.

Come on now. It lists Downloadable Content as a feature on the back of the box, there should be DL content. It's not that hard a concept.

I'd relate it to, say, purchasing an 80 channel cable plan. Then when everything's hooked up, you find only 75. So you call the cable company to see what's up. They say, "well, we're planning on having 80 channels soon, but that's dependent on how many subscribers we get". But they don't get enough, so they never do. But you bought the plan with the understanding that there would be 80 channels, and the cable company touted that as a selling point. Their obligation is to hold true to that.

Once they put it on the box, they should be committed to their word, sales should only be a factor if sales were 0. One person buys the game, they're obligated.

So did you hit Sega up for a refund when DC games got canned?

How is that at all relatable?

burgundy's not big on responding to arguments reasonably, he's more into saying you lack common sense and stuff like that. Just nod and move on.

"So did you hit Sega up for a refund when DC games got canned?"

If Sega said "these games WILL be available on the DC", then I would be upset. If my DC box said "play this game on the DC" and it didn't come out, then I'd be upset.

The point is that there are tons of boxes that DON'T have that checked off, so it obviously means something, right? I don't think anyone cares if the game can theoretically handle DL content (like I said earlier, there is no way to know if it does or not until it actually gets some content)...they care about the end result. Besides, PGR is the best-selling racing franchise on the Xbox so PGR2 sold well (even though I don't have the latest numbers in front of me). I know PC games that don't get those kinds of numbers that had "DL content", and in a lot of those cases it is because it was promised.

edit: Bahn, I know that (I don't really care too much about the content cutrrently out either as it's for games I don't really enjoy), but still.

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Originally Posted by NoFace

burgundy's not big on responding to arguments reasonably, he's more into saying you lack common sense and stuff like that. Just nod and move on.

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:lol:

Melf, stick to PGR2. More enjoyable.

I've basically played all of PGR2 that's going to be played. Online racing is cool now and then, but after about 65 hours, I'm getting a bit tired. I don't have 4 hours to spend on each platinum challenge, so I stopped playing for now.

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Originally Posted by Melf

Where's my KOTOR content?! Where are my new cars?!

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Hidden away on some PC's in a secret room, right next to the Live dedicated servers and those region free Xbox systems gamers were promised but never got. :) :chick:

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Originally Posted by Bacon McShig

How is that at all relatable?

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Consoles have game "coming attractions" on their boxes all the time. (I don't recall which games if any were on a Dreamcast box)

If I bought a Dreamcast that had pics for Propeller Arena and Shenmue II and "coming soon" notations, am I the victim of false advertising? Does Sega owe me something?

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Originally Posted by NoFace

burgundy's not big on responding to arguments reasonably, he's more into saying you lack common sense and stuff like that. Just nod and move on.

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You have no common sense and stuff like that.

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Originally Posted by BoBVila

"So did you hit Sega up for a refund when DC games got canned?"

If Sega said "these games WILL be available on the DC", then I would be upset. If my DC box said "play this game on the DC" and it didn't come out, then I'd be upset.

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Sega sure as sugar said that Shenmue 2 was coming out for the DC. And I was pissed when it didn't.

But there's a big difference between being pissed about a business decision and claiming to be the victim of false advertising.

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Originally Posted by bahn

:lol:

Melf, stick to PGR2. More enjoyable.

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You have no common sense. And stuff like that.

:lol: ... wait... no.

That's not really quite relatable to the situation at hand. I see what you're saying, but those games that didn't come out were products you would have had to buy. Since the product never existed, none of your money was spent. Games that say they'll have DL content are games that people can walk into a store and buy. Really, I'm not overly pissed about the games where DL content hasn't shown up or anything, but it's on the box as a feature. You can't put a feature on the box that's untrue. If it says System Link, it better damn well support System Link. That's why your DC analogy doesn't work; those games that got canned weren't bonuses with the purchase of your DC, not features touted in conjuction with your puchase. DL content is touted as just that. A bonus feature with purchase of the game.

All I have to say is, you would think with all of the time that goes into the production of a game, in lieu of having to create something entirely new, they could just throw out a beta level or alternate character model or something to just do the bare minimum to make good on their promise.

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Originally Posted by Bacon McShig

That's not really quite relatable to the situation at hand. I see what you're saying, but those games that didn't come out were products you would have had to buy. Since the product never existed, none of your money was spent. Games that say they'll have DL content are games that people can walk into a store and buy.

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They're different in the details, but they're really the same idea. Even if you have to buy all additional software for Console X, if none of the promised software comes (or nothing you want) then you're not going to be happy with your purchase.

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All I have to say is, you would think with all of the time that goes into the production of a game, in lieu of having to create something entirely new, they could just throw out a beta level or alternate character model or something to just do the bare minimum to make good on their promise.

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I don't think bare minimum content will make Melf or anyone else happy. It would just make it harder for them to complain about not being happy.

I'd rather see a developer put out kickass DL content for one game and ignore the other two (regardless of what's on the box) than release some BS stopgap content for all three.

"Sega sure as sugar said that Shenmue 2 was coming out for the DC. And I was pissed when it didn't."

Then there you go. Technically, it did come out for the DC though.

It still wasn't false advertising, WHICH IS ALL I'VE BEEN TRYING TO SAY.

And I meant in the US if that wasn't already clear.

I'd like to point out in my arguments I never said it was false advertising (some did, just saying). I said it's bullshit what they're doing. I know the checkbox really means "enabled for downloadable content", but that's not really what I'm taking issue with. If that feature isn't taken advantage of, I feel ripped off when I really like that game (and the developers made mention of future content earlier on).

Ninja Gaiden comes out this week. It's DL content feature is basically the Master Ninja Tournament. Right now, so I hear, there's none of the special missions to try your skills at right now. But it's a damn cool feature of the game.

If six months from now Tecmo hasn't released anything for that gamemode, I'll be pissed (who knows if that'll be the case of course... just my example). Do I have a right to be? Yes I do. Do I have a right to base my purchase on a cool sounding game mode and added challenge that this downloadable content ads on? Yes I do. How anyone can agree with those two ideas, I do not understand. You're all gamers, expect a little bit more out of the companies you fork over so much money to.

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Originally Posted by Melf

You mean they might not even include any? That would suck big time. PGR2 screams for new cars and tracks.

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You got served!

Well Melf your thread worked wonders, first KotR now PGR2!!! Unfortunatly not till spring, but still. :link:


http://www.bizarrecreationsforum.com...pic.php?t=3285

I fear signing up to Live, I don't trust them, but of course i want the DL content. badly...
I decided to do some research into the possible use of the two month free trial, that I got free with 'Crimson Skies'.
Then I went to the Xbox Live website localized in Denmark, and read, that if i forgot to cancel the subscription, then after the two months free trial period, they would charge 1599 DKR (approx 266 US$!) from my credit card. Thinking that this had to be a typo or some hellish error, I decided to call the Live support phone line, which interestingly enough is also the only way to cancel a trial subscription. But alas, no luck. A sweet voice told me, that my cell phone didn't work with this telephone number, which is weird as most people here in Denmark only have cell phones and nothing else. As my suspicions and fears started to mount, I decided to write them an email asking if the price was a typo, and how I should cancel my trial subscription now that I couldn't reach their phone lines...
The email reply was 'call our hotline' with the same telephone number again... Now I am 100% sure I won't sign up to their Xbox Live service.

Shame, coz I really wanted the DL content for 'Toe Jam and Earl 3'.

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Shame, coz I really wanted the DL content for 'Toe Jam and Earl 3'.

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Buy Exhibition Volume 2 (demo disc MS put out). If no luck there, try to find The Ultimate Halo Companion Disc, which includes Exhibition V.2 as a bonus. You can DL it from that.

Actually, I think my work still has some of the latter sitting in the back room (it was free w/ reservation of Brute Force, and NOBODY reserved that). I could try and snag one, if you're interested.

Can you get another one of those Halo companion discs? :D

Bacon McShig, I would be very interested. Although not a hardcore fan like TNL's Dirtysouth, its still one of my favorite xbox games. Plus I hate missing out on extra's for a Sega game. How can I contact you? What would your price, if any, be? Regards, Dakidski

Hmmm, with the news of this, along with the new XBL 3.0 upgrade coming, maybe...just MAYBE I'll consider re-buying PGR2.