Bush is next door to my job.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gohron

I don't neccassarily agree with this but if we're running out of oil maybe going to war for oil is somewhat neccassary, at the same time taking a horrible dictator out of power. If we do run out of oil then there's a lot more shit then just a war with Iraq. As I said I don't neccassarily agree with this.

---

Perhaps, but wouldn't developing alternative sources of power make more sense?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by burgundy

Perhaps, but wouldn't developing alternative sources of power make more sense?

---

I've been reading up on it, and at current hydrogen (which is the most likely alternative source) is still far away from being effective and we would still need natural gases (from the Middle East primarily). It doesn't look like it will still be an effective solution in the next 10-20 years and China is expected to be importing at least two times more oil then the US within the next 10-20 years...seems like the world might be on the breaking point again.

Quote:

---

Thats fine, but this was a war for the control or future control of the oil fields.

What right does the rest of the world now have to negotiate for oil with Iraq?

Whats a few favors to the country that liberated you?

With the exception of the removal of Saddam Hussien, nothing fueling this war was just. Especially when you really think about whats going to happen to those poor people once we decide to leave and let them police themselves.

---

I read this post and I think, this guy's been hanging around the Harvard University campus way too much lately.

And when it comes down to negotiating for oil with Iraq, at least the amazingly corrupt Oil-for-Food program aint around anymore...

Quote:

---

I've been reading up on it, and at current hydrogen (which is the most likely alternative source) is still far away from being effective and we would still need natural gases (from the Middle East primarily). It doesn't look like it will still be an effective solution in the next 10-20 years and China is expected to be importing at least two times more oil then the US within the next 10-20 years...seems like the world might be on the breaking point again.

---

They could develop alternative sources of power in half that time if they put the resources to it.

Look at the (relatively) small amount of time it has taken for very good AIDS treatments to come out. Nowadays, a person who can spend the $15k a year on treatment can live a relatively decent life with the disease. That's ONLY because of extreme amounts of pressure/govt funding into the research for the past 2 decades.

And solving the AIDS problem is way harder than figuring out how to get a car running on anything but fucking fossil fuel.

Bottom line, nobody wants to develop these alternative fuels so nobody's gonna work on them. It will take 10-20 years at the leisurely pace it's going now, but ramp it in high gear and we will all be driving an alt-fuel car by 2010.

But that's not gonna happen.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by diffusionx

I dont think we know the exact timeline. There's a book on the subject that just came out.

The guy was interviewed in the New York Times magazine.

I want to say that he said he didnt know, but I cant remember. Ill go to the library this weekend and try to find the interview and tell you the name of the book.

And yea, an interim government would have a lot of perks, but we have to look at things with an even head, not conspiracy theories and nonsense ranting. Are we getting cheaper oil because of an influx of Iraqi oil? No. In fact Im pretty sure gas is more expensive than it was this time last year, mostly because OPEC has cut shipments recently... in other words, the same damn thing that's been controlling oil supplies for decades.

There's absolutely no evidence whatsoever that this was a blood for oil war. There is significant cronyism in terms of Halliburton but (A) there is always cronyism in politics, and (B) there's no evidence they are profiting off the extra oil... all they're doing, really, is defrauding the government for tens of millions of dollars.

---

There are other reasons for this war Diffusion, I admit that, but I only think one of them was just and none of them were with good intentions except maybe for the troops on the ground actually fighting that war.

The Oil argument is simple, its easy, and its true whether you believe there is evidence to back it up or not. A democratic interim U.S. controlled government over there, will get away with murder, plain and simple, because like the lemmings who didn't want to wait for or fund an independent investigation of 9/11 and just wanted to go into Afghanastan, guns blazing based on what they were telling you, just like those who wanted to go right into Iraq the second they paid more than a few second to Tom Brokav so they had it spelled out as to what Weapons of Mass Destruction actually stands for...

Ive got news for your, the shock and awe war has been going on since 9/11 actually, its being fought against knowledge, against speaking out against government in anyway. The patriot act is one of the most awful things I have ever read and if you ever bother to sit down and figure out what it actually means, well all I'll say is this if you aren't going to do that...

Pray no terrosit attack happens again on our soil. Pray. Because the attack itself will be nothing compared to what the government will have the power to do to you.

Quote:

---

The Oil argument is simple, its easy, and its true whether you believe there is evidence to back it up or not.

---

Come on man. You're too smart to say dumb shit like that.

As for the Patriot Act, I know, I know. I go to UC-Berkeley Lite, after all. I just hope that it doesnt get renewed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by diffusionx

I read this post and I think, this guy's been hanging around the Harvard University campus way too much lately.

---

I was waiting for that cheap shot.

Hey, your convictions are good for you and your opinoins as wrong as they may be.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gohron

I've been reading up on it, and at current hydrogen (which is the most likely alternative source) is still far away from being effective and we would still need natural gases (from the Middle East primarily). It doesn't look like it will still be an effective solution in the next 10-20 years and China is expected to be importing at least two times more oil then the US within the next 10-20 years...seems like the world might be on the breaking point again.

---

Yes, and why do you think progress in developing these alternative fuels is so slow?

Hint: What interests control our current government?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by diffusionx

Come on man. You're too smart to say dumb shit like that.

---

Oh sorry, The oil argument is simple, and the evidence is there for you to look at if you want, unfortuantely it does not, as any evidence never does, come from the U.S. Governement. So I can't really call it evidence, since the sources would be from sources people like you and 90 percent of the country would laugh at.

Its a special interest war Diffusion. Its for the oil companies who put Bush in power, and give him money. Its also a personal agenda, its also a liberation movement...

But all of it was a bad idea.

Were the Stonecutters involved too?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by burgundy

Yes, and why do you think progress in developing these alternative fuels is so slow?

Hint: What interests control our current government?

---

You know that is a good point, however the government has a limited hand in controlling Japanese based researches (I would think anyway).