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http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/
I don't know if this has been posted before, but I couldn't find anything on the subject. Anyway, I've vaguely known about a few of the things addressed but I have to admit, reading that was pretty alarming.
Seems pretty well supported too. I'm not one to come up with arguments however, so maybe there's something I've missed. Hope so anyway.
Hopefully, I'll be one of the survivors. I've always wanted to live in a post-apocalyptic future, looks like my dream is coming true.
I better buff up.
Yeah, I've read this over before, and it is alarming. Oil is the largest reason the world population has gotten so much bigger these past 250 years. Medical care, transportation, housing, heat, water....everything our modern society is built upon was made with oil, or at least made possible by oil.
I'm sure when the president enacts martial law over the U.S., you could see a civil war developing to defeat it. The one thing that'll scare me is if that happens, another country is going to attempt to invade and we'll be fighting them on our own.
Please for the love of god; NO MORE "THE POSTMAN" REFERENCES!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by voltz
Eh? I haven't even seen the movie yet.
I've heard about this for years now... I first read an article on the depletion of our energy resources and the subsequent collapse sometime when I was in college. Those estimates had the oil running out (not just beyond financial viability) sometime between 2035-2050.
In any case, I'm not surprised looking at the consumption rate of industrial countries, and in particular, America. With all it's excess waste and consumption... I mean, it was bound to happen.
This looks like a realistic situation I'd say, especially with what China is expecting to import in the next few years (up to 2-3 times more then the US I've heard). Well sucks for us, I'm sure they'll find an alternitive energy source AFTER all of this so our great great great grandchildren can be happy :P
This is what we face after the crisis ends...
http://www.physics.hku.hk/~tboyce/sf/films/71.jpg
http://www.neomega.net/forum/images/smilies/zrock.gif
Yeah, except for the way they're USING OIL! YOU TOOL!
Oh man it's going to rule...Mel Gibson had better live up to his screen persona, or I'm gonna be really disapointed.
I wouldn't mind if there was some non-S&M/bondage clothing available. But maybe that's all you can get when there's no more oil around.
I'm going to go play Fallout
Fallout makes this whole ordeal seem pretty cool, the scary thing is that this could be happening now and we'll be in deep shit in a few years. Hell if it does I'm sandbagging my house with a few of my friends and we're putting a 1:2 ratio group of men to women and fighting it out :P
I'm more worried about the coming zombie holocaust with the moaning and the biting.
I told you, you shouldn't have bought that Hummer.
Well, we better find some alternatives to oil, and fast, is all I can say
Basically it may already be too late, I've been doing more study on this stuff and it's pretty scary....Quote:
Originally Posted by Psx
LOL. I like how what you say is like what the author says what most people say.Quote:
Originally Posted by Psx
Maybe it's time to invest in that hybrid or mini cooper or something :p
So, is that a bad thing? :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by negitoro
I guess if we really are so fucked the least people can do (esp. in the US)is stop buying SUVs! I even remember seeing this Southern Baptist Minister interviewed on CNN one time...'It's not our job to take care of the enivironment, thats the lords job. Me and my family have 3 SUVs and we ain't stoppin' for no one'... I can only hope his position is not in the majority. The best thing is if Bush gets knocked out of office so that there may actually be restrictions on fuel economy of vehicles, which could help stretch the supply longer (albeit probably not enough)
My question about this stuff, is it really worth prolonging the inevitable? I'd rather try and ride this out younger then older, I mean I'm not going to just go around polluting but if everyone stopped driving SUV's it might just set this thing back a few years and basically that doesn't help at all. I say we get this thing over with so society can start rebuilding sooner.
You fuckers won't even see it coming.Quote:
Originally Posted by voltz
omg Canada attacks!
We'll fight you off with our oil!
...
Fuck it, we're all gonna fry from global warming, freeze in another ice age, or be instant-cremated by an asteroid the size of Canada so fast that we won't even notice that we just paid $20 for a gallon of gas. And besides, if any of these outcomes decide to take their sweet time materializing, the Mayan calendar is gonna run out in 2012, and we're all fucked then for sure.
You're either making a very bad joke or are criminally naive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gohron
Maybe the Mayan calander ends because of something like this...who the hell knows what is going to happen but I'm anxious to find out.
I was exxagerating a bit but what really makes it worth it to continue to hold on to an oil driven economy when it ultimately will fail, and likely very soon? I understand striving for survival but striving to continue your depedance on something that is soon to be gone doesn't sound like the greatest plan to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by g0zen
Maybe those Mars explorers have a bigger meaning?
I heard on the radio the other day, that a US intelligence document made it onto the web. The document talked about global warming, causing the world's water levels to rise and the United States plans to deal with this. Countries would sink under the rising water levels, which would result in wars for land with surrounding territories.
We're all doomed!!
and you frenchie mo'fo's are next in line tonto! :evil:Quote:
Originally Posted by Brisco Bold
In 1950 we were going to run out of oil in 1970, and in 1970 we were going to run out of oil in 1978, and in 1978 we were going to run out of oil by 1990.
The Internet was going to be crippled in the year 2000.
We have nearly been killed by meteorites, what, a thousand times, since we figured out how to see meteorites.
You guys don't really believe this bullshit, right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stone
I was being a little sarcastic. :lol:
Back in the 80's, they were talking about land collapsing, because we had extracted too much oil from the ground below. That has'nt exactly happened yet, now has it. ;)
Finally.... a man who knows the truth! :nod:Quote:
Originally Posted by Stone
In the 1950's I was your daddy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stone
We should just use the molten magma from middle earth as a fuel source.
We used it all when we started building railroads. What century are you living in?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tones
Hubbert's Peak isn't a conspiracy theory it's cold hard science. If you think there is an endless supply of fossil fuels, then you're the one whose living in a fantasy world. The knowledge that we'd eventually run out of oil, coal, etc. has been accepted for decades, it's just no one wants to do anything about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stone
Maybe it isn't as dire or imminent, that doesn't mean it's something we should just ignore. The fact that it isn't happened yet is great, but what it good is it if we squander the time and resources we have left without a thought to the future? Someday we WILL run out of oil, that's just a fact, and if everyone takes the position you take Stone, apathetic denial, then it will most certainly catch us by surprise and the apocalyptic vision provided by the website may come true. Who will have to suffer through the horrors? Us, maybe, but certainly our children and definitely our grandchildren.
I think we owe them more than that.
In closing, stop being lazy assholes, people. Stop buying SUVs when you never EVER go off-road and drive like ten minutes to work and back. If I see you driving your fucking all-terrain vehicle down your driveway just because you don't want to put on shoes and a pair of pants to get your mail, I'm going to skullfuck you with a rusty railroad spike. Peace out.
Also, I don't know where you heard they were saying we'd run out of oil in the 70s, I've never seen an interpretation of Hubbert's Peak that predicted anything lower than 2005.
Gozen, may I buy a fast car with a V8 that gets gas mileage similar to many SUVs? What car may I have before I can avoid threats of skull-fucking?
I hate these anti-SUV assholes, and it has nothing to do with what I think of SUVs (they suck for driving - I'd buy a Land Rover if I bought a farm). People like you make me want to buy an H2 out of spite, coat the entire thing in chrome, and run over baby seals with it. I'd roam the streets looking for Prius owners to blind with double-strength Xenon highbeams
You ever hear about an economist named Malthus? He predicted that the world's population was going to grow so uncontrollably that the world was going to effectively run out of food, causing massive famine. Sounds similar to this website, right? Yeah, except Malthus is about 240 years old - and what he predicted hasn't come true yet.
Fewer people are starving now than ever before. We are discovering more new natural energy-producing resouces than ever before, at a faster rate. Oil prospecting costs money, and it's going to become harder in the future - ie more expensive, but it's not going to become anything near impossible.
By the time oil production is no longer cost effective, energy companies will have figured out another way to make money giving us energy - because that's their job.
I think it's great that you people are concerned about something, but don't be concerned about this - there are other worse things to worry about, things far more worthy of your interest.
Stones got a point. If you think energy companies are going to just sit there and wait for their lively hoods to run out you're wrong. Think about all the shit that's going to need to be converted to the next power source. Jobs in researching it, making it, installing it and charging every mother fucker on the planet to use it.
And ya don't like SUV's? When it snows, I know I can drive down my driveway to get my mail, no fucking problem.
I certainly can't stop you from driving your gas-guzzling vanity car, and really I wouldn't want to. My statement was obviously meant in jest as I'm not in the business of skull-fucking anyone. I'm glad you were able to recognize the humor.
Malthus believed famine and poverty were natural outcomes and that it was God's way of preventing man from being lazy. He was wrong, on possibly every account, but thankfully his observations that plants and animals produce more offspring than can possibly survive did inspire the works of Darwin.
I don't know where you get fewer people are starving than before, when according to the World Food Summit, 840 million people live in the condition of chronic, persistent hunger. That's 1/7 of the world's population. Not a marginal figure, is it?
Stone, really man, have you actually read the website? At every turn it has provided information on why oil prospecting is already growing harder, more expensive, and by the way more dangerous (both militarily and from a climate perspective).
The energy companies aren't trying to figure out another way to make energy, that takes time and effort away from making money on what's available. You're living in a fantasy where conglomerates aren't short-sighted behemoths going from one quarter to the next with their only concern being maximizing profits and lowering overhead. If you're hoping for altruism on their part, then we're really screwed.
I think you give these companies way too much credit in terms of their omniscience. If they are so readily prepared for every situation then how did Exxon-Valdez sink off the coast of Alaska? How did OPEC manage to slide a crippling oil embargo past them? No, it's clear that the energy companies aren't in the business of making contingency plans, even when their own livelihood is at stake.
This is a real problem, it may not be the biggest out there, but it's one that is only going to grow and get progessively worse. Now, we -can- ignore it now and do so until it becomes too big to turn a blind eye to, or we can do little things in our daily lives now that will at the very least help even in a small way to buy us some time.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I -want- this to happen. I'm hoping like the rest of you that some scientific breakthrough will save us at the zero-hour and we'll be able to go on living our comfortable lives in peace. Unfortunately, the facts don't in any way support this kind of thinking. So, my choices are to live in denial and get bit on the ass when the time comes, or do some simple planning now and try to spread the word as best I can.
If you want to buy a gas hog, fine. The economy needs your money more then you do.
Doomsayers have been around since we before we left the forest. As usual, the witchdoctors blame progress or change (today it's technology).
The beauty of this ecosystem (of which homo sapiens is a part) is how well it tends to balance itself out. For thousands of years the fossil fuel mankind exploited the most was...wood. Obviously it's a renewable resource but had wood usage continued unabated from the 18th century (for instance) to today...OMG we'd be living in a tree-less world populated by Mad Max-types (but w/powdered wigs and lace cuffs). But what happened instead? Mankind found or invented other tools whereby he brought Nature to heel. The steam engine. Eventually the carbeurated engines of today. Even computers have saved trees; think of all the work we now do on screens rather than consuming paper, although I'm sure that eventually a mediocre law student w/a penchant for Malthusian logic will find a way to worry about the rapid depletion of sand.
We've already witnessed the seeds being planted for future energy harvests. Nuclear power is exponentially more efficient than coal (not to mention cleaner). Solar and wind power, while in their infant stages, are inexhaustible for at least a million years. Electric cars have debuted and will no doubt become very popular once oil reserves become scarce (driving up prices; giving ppl an incentive to find cheaper transport).
The laws of supply and demand aren't just for businessmen and economic advisors. They apply to the environment and regularly, if serreptitiously, impact our own (free) willful decisions.
Well. Beaten again by Stone. *kneels*Quote:
Originally Posted by Stone
You've obviously never played Metal Gear Solid. The idea of nuclear energy being clean and safe is bull. If you think the stuff is so safe then I'd ask if you'd be willing to take a bath in some of the radioactive waste produced by reactors. Yeah, the stuff we -can't- get rid of and probably won't go away for a few millenia.Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Meach
As detailed in the topic website, Solar and Wind power are not only in their infancy but are also subject to changing weather conditions. Thus its not a reliable source of energy to replace the massive infrastructure in place that accomodates petroleum.
The cold hard truth is that there currently is no viable replacement for gas, and so it's in our best interests to show just a touch of restraint and try to buy ourselves some time before it becomes too late to develop a good alternative.
Stone, did you read the page ? It makes some very good points, not even necessarily on us running out of oil for energy but that much of our technology, manufacturing and goods depend on a source of oil for production.
And for the record, SUVs suck. I'm totally anti-SUV and it's not even for entirely enviornmental reasons. Those things just infringe on everyone's rights on the road.
The key stat is the PERCENTAGE. What percentage of the world's pop back-in-the-day was living a subsistence lifestyle? You better believe it was greater than 1/7.Quote:
Originally Posted by g0zen
Which is precisely why newer tech will rise and join oil as one of our fuels.Quote:
Originally Posted by g0zen
Altruism didn't get us nuclear power, it didn't get us the assembly line, it didn't get us the computer and it didn't get us fire. The market provides b/c ppl are greedy (for power/money/a leg up on the other guy).Quote:
Originally Posted by g0zen
I think your point about managing our resources properly (and I would add, efficiently) is well taken. But conservation is not the SOLE means for seeing mankind gets to the next millenium.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by g0zen
g0zen is my new hero. He's making all the logical arguments and tongue-in-cheek MGS references that I'd like to make if I could be bothered to write coherent posts on this topic.
Someone sent that link to me a month or so ago, and I've been reading about the topic off and on since then. Needless to say, it's troubling. I can't understand how some people can completely write off such disturbing and seemingly relevant issues. It must be a difference in brain chemistry or something. o_O
Nuclear power is already a dinosaur from the '70s and '80s. The problems outweigh the benefits, which is why you never read about new nuclear power plants being built (except in Iran and North Korea, of course).Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Meach
Solar/wind power is cool to think about, but so far neither is efficient enough. They aren't practical in many parts of the world, to boot.
Unfortunately, if you take the example of nature, the restoration of such a balance usually involves massive die-offs. Which is exactly what the "peak oil" doomsayers are predicting.Quote:
The beauty of this ecosystem (of which homo sapiens is a part) is how well it tends to balance itself out.
But yeah - humans are pretty good at adapting to stuff. The world we live in now would be unrecognizable to somebody from just 20-30 years ago, so chances are the future will be better than those guys think.
My mailbox is right beside my porch.
Yep.
Edit: In all seriousness, if (if, if, if) it happens, then it certainly sucks to be us. I'm very sorry I contributed to it driving to the store, getting fatter and all the more greedy by the second what with all that sitting, instead of taking a leasurly stroll. I'm really, really sorry.
The fact still stands that we're in the position we are (And I don't mean dire straits, but king of the hill on this here rock), because of something unheard of on this planet before us. We certainly didn't get here because of brute strength and mamoth size, kids.
We've thought our way out of bigger holes than this, quite literally, and we've certainly grown past the usefulness of the strategically shaped rock. We'll adapt. We always have. From the rock to the bow to the gun to the now, we have and we will get our eat on. If not until a massive die off, well, I said my apologies above, but we'll probably beat it with only a few stragglers dead.
We'll find them locked in bomb shelters, those cans of sweet potatos empty and littering the floor.
Just bring it.Quote:
Originally Posted by voltz
My explorer? Gas and oil guzzling? Yes. Vanity? HA! HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA! Ohhh, I don't drive that damn thing because I want to, and it sure as hell isn't turning any heads... well except "Wow, what a piece of shit." But I suppose I was doing my part concerving oil when the oil light burnt out and managed to get 4 quarts low and then the engine exploded on the internstate.Quote:
Originally Posted by g0zen
That is going in my sig, because it's fucking great. Good show.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stone
This is a guy who has his priorities straight!Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny
its so tempting to begin panicking and preparing for a vagabond lifestyle, but well (thinks of Fable on XBOX coming out, Darkfall on PC), maybe later...
No problem. I'll bring enough guns and ammo to last us two world wars, you just better make sure to pack enough beer and none of that old style crap or your arse sits in the watch tower alone. :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by GohanX
We need to bust out the Star Trek technology.
Beam me up already!
I gotta say I agree with Gozen on this one, I've been studying up more on it and the indicators are pretty clear. Oil is going to run out, and we may already have hit the "shit" stage of it, so basically things could start getting bad in the near future. True, man does always adapt but generally it takes something bad to start before he does, it's not like the entire human race is going to disappear from the face of the Earth because we have no oil. A few times in the past society has hit a high point, slowly started on it's way down then suddenly plumetted rapidly and harshly. History usually repeats itself, is another Dark Age too hard to accept?
No TNL or Internet?
That's obsurd.
Nuclear power isn't quite the dinosaur it was 3 years ago. Some British scientists have apparently, and I say apparently because it has to be proven by like, 500 more scientists before its accepted, found a way to reduce the halflife of spent nuclear fuel by a considerable margin by focussing some type of laser on it.
http://www.rexresearch.com/articles/nukewa~1.htm
Ok theres the link and it looks like the process takes alot of power also. But there are other methods listed there, so people ARE coming up with ways to do it. It's just a matter of time before they get it cheaper and easier.
also there's this
http://www.space.com/scienceastronom...m3_000630.html
TOLDYAQuote:
Originally Posted by station82o
Damn.
Edit: Completely speculatory, but other things make this seem like it might be under consideration. It kinda clicks with Bush announcing the possibility of a base there, and even to check out what be da deal wit Mars, right around the time the shit's predicted to hit the fan.
I hate the guy, I really do, but if this is actually eminant, and it's a factor in his goal to push NASA a little harder, then that's awesome.
Some big ifs though.
I just want hover cars by the time I die. That's all I ask of science.
Anything that inconveniences me is hard to accept.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gohron
Helium 3 would be great... if it weren't for the fact we haven't even come close to developing a fusion reactor.
I need some examples from history where society has 'hit a high point, slowly started on it's way down then suddenly plumetted rapidly and harshly.'Quote:
Originally Posted by Gohron
You've brought up the Middle Ages but this is a poor analogy (in this context) b/c the fall of Rome came about NOT from any lack of a resource but from Rome's social/military decay and the geo-political situation of the day (another Dark Age could come but I don't think it would be caused by a lack of oil).
It's been theorized that the Maya civilization crashed because they overexploited their agricultural resources. People could be wrong, however.Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Meach
Modern civilization could easily crash due to reasons unrelated to oil.
Cool. I'll try to check out the Mayan civ.Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt
Modern civ could definitely crash for other reasons.
Yeah, EThugg's gonna find a way to do it before oil can.Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt
I just know it.
The Easter Islanders tell a great story of resource depletion and the dangers that come with it. At one point in history they had the only written language in Polynesia, they built those huge moai statues and generally thrived. However the land couldn't support the population of thousands and it was soon stripped of trees, wich lead to soil erosion and species extinction. The social fabric decayed and society devolved into war until there were but a small fraction left by the the time European explorers entered the picture. The Eastern Island analogy is used often by conservationists and it holds a lot of truth, Earth can only sustain so many people with a certain kind of lifestyle and sustainability must be the ultimate goal. People need to toss their imperial thinking and look at the facts, Earth's resources are in a state of decline and the sooner things are turned around the less it's going to hurt.
Yes, like a global superstorm, or "Ice age."Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt
Hey, whadda ya know?
http://www.whoi.edu/institutes/occi/...uptclimate.htm
http://eob.gsfc.nasa.gov/Newsroom/Me...031311354.html
http://www.fortune.com/fortune/techn...582584,00.html
It's obvious some of you haven't played Donkey Kong.
I agree with the baby seal part, but do I really make you want to do that? Or are you talking about the people who hate SUV's for ecological reasons? I hate SUV's in my constant class-warfare thing; because as we all know, only fat, white Americans with poor driving skills and a ton of money drive SUV's.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stone
There are always those Rappers with their Escalades. They need protection from Napalms hummer.
Yes I like to beat the dead horse
Make that 'fit, tan, soccer moms w/poor driving skills and large cell phone bills.'Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike
Ah, yeah, I forgot about them, too. Thanks for the reminder. Those cell phone things cause so many freaking accidents when soccer moms use them because they talk and drive. Dirty bitches.Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Meach
Has anyone purchased the guy's book? He sent me a free copy because I'm enlisted in the Armed Forces (.pdf format). I'll probably start reading it tonight or tommorow.
I've read CA Int Tech physicist David Goodstein's book, Out of Gas: The End of the Age of Oil, which makes very similar conclusions. I agree with him. I'd make this my top issue when deciding who should get my vote in the upcoming elections, however, noone talks about it enough.
Edit: Dammit, my day is ruined now. This discussion always give me a headache. Let's allow this thread to die. I have my family's health to worry about.
gohron - care to hook a brother up? *hint hint*... wait - no thats blatant. hehQuote:
Originally Posted by Gohron
PM me and I'll think about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by station82o