http://www.angelfire.com/rnb/ocean/T...ellsounds.html
bottom of page click listin to it.
Printable View
http://www.angelfire.com/rnb/ocean/T...ellsounds.html
bottom of page click listin to it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BURN007
90% chance thats a hoax, partly cause of the looking into it I've done since I first heard it on Art Bell.
For something that will really fuck with your head and give you nightmares tonight, check this out...
http://netsummary.dk/incident/
P.S. For easy future odditiy thread reference:
*Sounds of Hell- Probably a hoax
*Area 51 call- Probably not a hoax
*Sci-fi Channel Ufo video thingy- A hoax
*John Lear's insane statements- I can verify that at least 40% of what he says has some truth
*UFO Technology in the government- Not a Hoax.
*Bigfoot- Hoax
*Lochness Monster- Hoax
*Champ- 50/50 chance something is going on there
*Global warming cause an ice age in ten to twenty years- Hoax
*An ice age occuring in ten to twenty years despite GW- Absolutely true
*The discovery of atlantis being the reason for the mass exodus of scientists and international authorties to the south pole over last three years- Probably a hoax
*A moon sized asteriod going to hit us from the south being the reason for the above- 50/50 chance, as it completely depends on who you ask. All non government sanctioned scientists have huge concern over this activity though.
*The europeon beagle destroyed to ensure that the nasa probes would have only say in confirming that there was life on mars- Probably not a hoax
*Life on mars?- Yes there is, and if you dont' believe me pay attention to the nasa annoucements that have been coming out, they are building up to spilling the beans.
*The governement was in someway responsible for 9/11 even going as far as to have financed it, or let it happen willingly because they knew they couldn't get their Iraq agenda accepted without a Problem/reaction/solution thing- I'm skeptical to believe that much into it, but something strange did go on there.
*Roswell- Could be a hoax
*Kecksburg- Absolutely true
*The philidelphia experiement- Absolutely true
*Alien abductions- Probably true
*Crop Circles- The giant ones are now listed as "scientifically unexplainable"
K there it is, a reference of Conspiracy therioes and spook stories worth or not worth looking into.
Um, you have any links to that?Quote:
*Global warming cause an ice age in ten to twenty years- Hoax
*An ice age occuring in ten to twenty years despite GW- Absolutely true
I had a ton in another thread, hang on
Man, you are up on this shit.
http://www.whoi.edu/institutes/occi/...uptclimate.htm
http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0318/p13s01-sten.html
http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewCommentar...20040210e.html
http://www.lauralee.com/news/iceage.htm
http://maritimes.buffaloimc.org:8080...04/01/7305.php
http://www.fortune.com/fortune/techn...582584,00.html
http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2...tm?list1094651
Here's a couple. Woodshole, NASA, and Fortune magazine. The fortune article speaks of a Pentagon report that was done late last year about what to do to try to avoid economic collapse.
Enjoy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzo
I like to know for myself whats true or not to these things.
Thats all.
first of all . i know hell is real. and i feal sorry for you if u dont think the same. and that audio clip is real. i know that thos were people that were not saved and are in hell. i dont care if u think im a nut case. but if u could keep ur criticism of me to your self that would be good.
This sounds a lot like that really cool horror story someone posted a while back, with the guys digging in the cave and finding the Cthulhu-style ruins.
Anyone have the audio in a format other than Real? I don't understand why people use that program.
I am a consparicy theorist, and have a tendency to make what people on this board probably call, "the Yawa leap of faith."Quote:
Originally Posted by BURN007
So I think it goes without saying that a :confused: from me is a pretty sad thing to get when it comes to making crazy statements.
:confused:
I think it's a fitting program to play back the sounds of hell.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike
aliens are not real. and i have much pitty for you for thinking thare is such a thing as alians.Quote:
youandwhosearmy
Life on mars?- Yes there is, and if you dont' believe me pay attention to the nasa annoucements that have been coming out, they are building up to spilling the beans.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BURN007
Neither are you, so we are even.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzo
I know though, it wouldn't kill someone to just friggin post something in winamp, would it?
Perhaps that's what the people in the sound clip were trying to do?Quote:
Originally Posted by youandwhosearmy
major BURN. gatta give you props for that come back.Quote:
youandwhosearmy
Neither are you, so we are even.
Fuck that. I don't need to DL that. It's in RA format. Install RA on your PC and you'll hear experience hell first hand.
Nobody likes you.Quote:
Originally Posted by BURN007
Have you been there? Or are you just going by what some old ass book told you?Quote:
Originally Posted by BURN007
I'd believe he came from there.
Then hell is full of stupid assholes.
I'm getting nothing..
Except buttsex... right sweetie?
That's where they belong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Icepick
If that's what turns you on, I'm sure I could direct you to some more suitable sites.Quote:
Originally Posted by Icepick
No. It is you who likes the man ass.
Sounds of Hell debunking:
http://ship-of-fools.com/Myths/03Myth.html
The Incident debunking:
http://www.thecobrasnose.com/xxghost/ecto.html
Damnit, Dan, every time I pull my head out of this stuff I see you in some thread and get sucked right back in.
Oh, and if you click enough through the incident you get a note from the author about how and why he put it together as a statement or a joke, depending on which way you'd like to take it.
Unless you've seen that and it's the statement itself that's shaking you up.
Sounds of Hell MP3 here
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysteriousRacerC
I am well aware its fake, but its far more interesting than the sounds of hell hoax.
Oh, I thought you were serious about it giving you the spooks. Unless it still does...
In which case, I'm afraid we'll have to end our cloneship.
Anyway, fuck you, now I'm gonna be staring at the stars, smoking and just twitching a lot again. Ass.
Indeed. For those who missed it: http://netsummary.dk/incident/letter.htmlQuote:
Originally Posted by youandwhosearmy
And yeah, I had heard the "sounds of hell" a few years ago, not so exciting. I will not "listin" again, thanks. But a lot of the stuff you listed, yawa, is some stuff I could use to know more about. I remember not long ago, a thread about the Art Bell Area 51 call, which prompted me to look into some other stuff... lots of John Lear stuff, not to mention Denver International Airport speculation, and those creepy, creepy murals.
This stuff is too much fun to read about.
I posted this a while back, but here it is again, go here http://home.hccnet.nl/h.edskes/finalbuilds.htm scroll down to "real alternative" and install.
Now you too can enjoy the shitty audio quality of RA with none of the annoying software.
I suppose Dinosaurs arent real either, since they aren't ever in the Bible at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by BURN007
There's mention of an animal that COULD be a dinosaur.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wildkat
I believe in heaven and hell and all that whatnot but I seriously doubt that "the sounds of hell" could be recorded. You sound somewhat ignorant and gullible Burn.
especially appropriate since he didnt say anything at all about the bible in this statement, isnt it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Wildkat
as for sounds of hell, we have gone this far without ONE avril levigne/limp bizkit/britney spears joke? i feel like i just dont know you guys anymore.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Icepick
well your going there. and i fell vary sorry for you to.
:lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by BURN007
Hopefully you'll go too for your poor grammar and spelling.Quote:
Originally Posted by BURN007
Sounds of hell is BS. That was the stupidest sound clip I've ever heard. It was the same few simple seconds looped over and over to a full 30 seconds. I can make a more convincing sound byte from hell right now.
The character select music from MvC2 would be a good start.
heh that "incident" site is funny. I could do that in photoshop. We outta make a TNL incident site with photoshop errie stuff.
Way too accurate.Quote:
Originally Posted by skelly
I now want to upload an exact mirror of the "sound of hell" site with an mp3 of this being the only change.
They're not in the Bible because the first scientifically evaluated dinosaur was found in 1858 AD. And the Bible was written between what? like ~3000 BC and 200 AD. The scholars who wrote it simply didn't know about dinosaurs to add them in; and maybe if God spoke to them about dinosaurs, because of their complete and utter ignorance on the subject they simply omitted the fact.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wildkat
Even if the Bible is the word of God, it has still passed through many human minds before it gets to you. It's like a teritiary source.
P.S. BURN007 rules!
Ok, listened to the MP3. Where's the scary part supposed to come in? I never realized the sounds of hell were "Oogle-bloogle oogle-bloogle oogle-bloogle AAAAHHHH!!!", repeat.
Yeah, I'm repenting my sins now. The thought of an eternity of oogle-bloogle has triggered my long time coming born-again... thing...
James
Quote:
well your going there. and i fell vary sorry for you to.
I love how idiots like to claim they're going to heaven... If they're right, I think Hell will be a much more enjoyable place.Quote:
Originally Posted by BURN007
" I'd rather laugh with the sinner's, than cry with the saints..."
He's a joke account, don't fret it.
He's a joke account that's been around for far too long.
While you're still on though YAWA... I know nothing about these above... would you be able to supply me with some links?Quote:
Originally Posted by youandwhosearmy
Lemme start you off I'll have to look up links later cause those subjects broad and really deep....
-John Lear- Son of Bill Lear (Maker and owner of the Lear jet), a decorated airplane pilot who holds or has held like every air speed, flying, and god knows what else record in the world. He was also up until 1992 or so, one of the most prominent and outspoken UFO investigators in the world, when he very suddenly just kind of stopped talking to anyone about it.
Six months ago, he came on Coast to Coast AM, a show regurally frequented by weird topics, and kind of just let it all go, reading what is now infamously known as the Lear Briefing. Just do a google search for it.
What I have to come to the conclusion of in my research and cross-referencing, that there is a lot of disinformation in it on purpose, for whatever reasons he may have had , (self serving, or fear of being cut off), mixed with quite a few true things.
Basically 40% of that briefing is checkable, double checkable and most likely, true, and the remaining percentage is bullshit. After you read it, I'll let you know whats most likely true.
And thats about it.
To get the briefing just go to,
www.coasttocoastam.com and type "John Lear" in the search tab.-
- Champ- Champ is an easy subject. The lake Champlain monster, rumoured to be a pleisaur or something that survived from the Jurassic Era.
The reason I say true here and not true to Lochness and Bigfoot, is that there actually is a legitiamte investigation going on here, with some really strange completely undebunkable photo's and video.
Just do a google on this and you'll bring up a ton of info.-
-Beagle- The Beagle was a Europeon built probe that was sent up with the Mars Observer to be deployed days before the American rovers were deployed. It was built fairly cheaply, but was the only one of the three that could detect and chemically test for life. The other two can only look for water and photographic evidence of life.
The truth is that the Europeons knew, claimed, and proved that the water in the polar caps of mars had once flowed on the surface years and years ago, and they were way ahead of us as far as what they believed and told their public when it came to mars. They were ready to test for life and reveal that there was life to the world.
Long story short, the probe mysteriously lost contact on its way down and hasn't been heard from since.
*as a side note I should mention that all signs point to the reasons NASA has been coming to monumental conclusions like (hey everyone else knew it before us, but we'd just like to say, THERE WAS WATER ON MARS) is because they are gearing up to admit that mars once had an ecosystem almost exactly like ours, and that life did exist there.-
-Kecsburg- Kecksburg is the site of the largest seen (so large debunkers won't even touch this one, and the governemnts claim isn't even "weather balloon" or something, it just kind of, looks away ashamed), as an entire town's population (well over a 1,000 witnesses) witnessed a UFO crash.
The town local authorites, firefighters, and paramedics were actually on the scene hours before the military showed up.
There are just too many stories to list, so just do a search for em. I will say that this one is huge, also because the surviving townspeople are filing a lawsuit against the U.S. government for witholding information about this fromt he public.-
-The Philidelphia Experiment - This is one of the most infamous, tragic, and horrifying coverups of all time. There are a lot of opinions on this one, ranging from credible to kooky, but they all tell the same story, and one thing you can be sure of is that a lot of people died a horrible death that day.
Apparnetly in the early to mid forties someone got the bright idea that our battleships and cruisers needed to be invisible to effective agianst German U-boats. Not like invisble to radar, but fucking INVISIBLE.
The best way they came up with after researching possible ideas, was to heat the outer hull of the ship up so that at a distance it would simply appear to be mirage. These tests of creating an unnatural mirage were successful so the project was bumped up to field tests.
After deciding the ship was simply to big to heat up in any conventional, some scientist (can't remember his name, but its in the documents and stories) got the bright idea to break out the "Tesla Coils" (if you don't know what that is, or who that is, look it up, but I will tell you for the summary's sake that they involved take electricity from the open air and channeling it through a coil) and stick them in the hull of the ship.
*This is where the story gets fucked up, but all of these accounts have been confirmed by various retired military officials who "broke the silence, en masse..."*
Well after a somewhat successful open air test at a port somewhere along the gulf stream (I think I could be wrong but again the locations are in the accounts), they decided to put the crew on the USS Elderidge and take it out for a spin. The crew got onboard, everyone manned their postions and Tesla coils were activated.
The ship then completely disappeared from the dock.
Not a mirage, not an illusion. It was fucking gone.
The base started getting calls from ships at sea, asking if the elderidge had left port.
When asked why, the communication's officer would reply, "cause we just saw it".
12 to 24 hours later, the ship reappeared in the dock. Medical teams rushed on board, as did army photographers and a division of troops. Officers were found fused to the walls and hull of the ship, some of them submerged within the floor itself.
They were still alive and screaming for someone to kill them.
of the 200 or so people on that ship, twenty people survived, and their accounts of what actually happened are even more fucked up than the summary from the outside.
Look it up its an amazing story, and yes, I do believe it happened, and as fucked up as the story is, its the most provable thing on this list.
The following was reported by the Canadian Press, March 29th, 2004:
(all grammatical and spelling errors are mine)
Quote:
What fate the stars hold for Prime Minister Paul Martin may be unclear. But one thing's certain: Canada'a PM recently had a high-flying close encounter with a UFO.
Martin and his entourage were cruising above Alberta yesterday when their Challenger jet came within an otherworldly whisker of a luminous object streaking trough the night sky.
In a report to edmonton air traffic controllers, the pilot of Martin's plane noted seing a "very bright light falling" through the air, with smoke trailing.
People aboard at least two other planes also saw the plummeting object, which was travelling "at a very fast rate of speed" from a high altitude, says the report.
Hey, YAWA, what's your stance on the Superman project, Niburu and the ever famous black helicopters?
Thanks for the info YAWA... I'll do some in depth googling tomorrow. :)
What was that Superman project about?Quote:
Originally Posted by Survival Kid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will
Yeah I don't know much about that either, fill me in.
Nibiru, I am inclined to trust the sumerians on this one, partially cause of the drawings on their caves, partially because of the discover of a new planet out there (which means there is probably more out in that region), but mostly because of the aformentioned mass exodus of agencies and government scientists to the south pole to build "telescopes" when we didn't even have a proper budget to send the right equipment to mars. There is definatley something to that.
As far as black helicopters go, lemme ask you one first, do know what the auroa project is? Black triangles?
Nibiru is bullshit.
Proof: GLO
Re: Sounds of Hell mp3: I can hear five distinct reverb settings and two delays in that tape.
Poorly done unprofessional bullshit. If you're gonna try to fool the world, get an engineer that has more than half a brain to edit your soundfiles.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AstroBlue
I won't argue with you on that one, I am really just suspicious. I have other theories I am much more passionate about, but I admit Nibiriu could be bullshit.
The south pole thing intrigues me though.
Man I wanna know what they see out there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Icepick
your preaching to the choir, and burn007...
so why preach>?
Man, I dunno why, but I really dig this conspiracy shit. I'm gonna throw together a fake one tonight.
Because thats what the Lord told me to do... bitch.Quote:
Originally Posted by youandwhosearmy
fuck me, this is gonna take more than one night.
Possibly a real doozy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Icepick
No, I checked.
He didn't.
Because you've ... I dunno, been there? (Edit: people aready asked, but I'm keeping my post the same anyhow, nyeh!)Quote:
Originally Posted by BURN007
If you believe in God - not you Burn007, "you" in general - you can't believe in Hell. Simple as that.
And I heard this clip ages ago on Art Bell. Really interesting story if the story about the source is true. However, since "Hell," if it existed, would not be a PHYSICAL place actually located in the center of the Earth, it wouldn't make sense to be a recording from Hell. An inside-Earth society that really sucks, maybe, but not Hell.
I remember watching teh movie about the Philadelphia experiment (which involved time travel http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0087910/) I think it's an amazing story and I am super open minded but I am just so skeptical about all these things though I do believe in alien life.
Yeah that sounds of hell thing was pretty weak
You mean the hypersonic aircraft, or whatever it is? I've read bits and pieces on it, but not much.Quote:
Originally Posted by youandwhosearmy
I'll have to search for some stuff on the superman project. Basically it was an experimental project to develop the perfect soldier not too long ago. I believe it had a lot to do with some of the shit that supposedly went down at Camp Hero at Montauk Point. I've read a few things on it that I thought were really interesting, but was always highly skeptical of it. I'll see what I can find.
if im a joke account then how come im not funny.
Because you're a lame joke account.
o ok.
"f you believe in God - not you Burn007, "you" in general - you can't believe in Hell. Simple as that."
Not to drag this off-topic, but that's completely false. My belief in a higher being doesn't prevent me from believing in a "place" of evil or something terrible.
Then God is a vindictive asshole... and fucking hates you. Why else would he create hell?
he didint create hell. when the devel was an angel he wanted to be worshiped by humans just like god. and so god cast him into hell because of that. and when adom ate the apple thats when evel and sin was created.Quote:
Originally Posted by Icepick
:lol: You're all right! So hell was just there? And God built the universe around it?Quote:
Originally Posted by BURN007
Quote:
Originally Posted by AstroBlue
.no when evel and sin were born cause of atom eatin the apple thats when hell was created i think.
i created hell.
http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?pas...on&showxref=onQuote:
Originally Posted by BURN007
God "prepared" hell (i.e. created it) for the Devil.
i guess need to read my bible alot more than i do know (wich is only on sundays).
thanks for the info tho astroblue:)
No problem!Quote:
Originally Posted by BURN007
How do you know Hell isn't the good place, huh? HUH!? Maybe God is the true bad guy and Lucifer wants to liberate us from him!Quote:
Originally Posted by BoBVila
Okay, you can believe in a higher power and also believe in Hell as a place. However, you cannot believe in a God and believe in Hell as a punishment for your actions in life.
Every rational mother or father would do ANYTHING in their power to keep their child out of jail. They may hate what their child did, but they would rather try to get their child help so that they can become a "normal" person instead of just locking them away and letting their child rot. There is almost no stronger bond than the love of a parent for their child, and unless the person has something in their head screwed up, a parent would do anything possible to keep their child from harm.
So, now, if you believe in God, you would actually believe that God would have less love for His/Her/Its children than a human parent has? It is ridiculous to think that God would ever be - as Icepick said - such a vindictive asshole that He would send somebody to ETERNAL PUNISHMENT, no matter what they had done. It makes more sense that God would have that person re-live life again until they can atone for their ways.
But God gives us the choice to go to Hell or not, you say. Let's be honest here - the judgement of mortal humans is far from perfect. I can't believe that God would let a person makes a decision as big as that during their mortal life. I have to believe that once you move on to the "beyond" that your rational is far clearer, and I can't believe that anybody would choose to go to Hell. If at that point, if you really would want to, then I suppose God would let you - but at any point, if you decide that you made a huge mistake, I can't accept the idea that God wouldn't forgive you at a moment's notice.
So people in hell have access to recording equipment?Quote:
Originally Posted by BURN007
This totally coincides with my findings. Awesome!
It's funny that you have so many answers to so many unanswerable questions.Quote:
Originally Posted by youandwhosearmy
Just remember there are many ways to look at each of these topics, each with its own specific set of counter points. There is interesting "evidence" on both sides of many of these occurances.
See, that's one of the things that makes some, probably a small minority, of Christians just so silly looking - this idea of Heaven being up in the sky, and Hell being down in the ground. That's such a moronic idea of how those kinds of things would work. The idea that Hell is actually a burning place of torment in the middle of our planet, and that you can actually stick a recording device down and capture sounds from it, is mind-blowingly stupid.Quote:
Originally Posted by OmniGear
Well, okay... I can see a horrible place where evil hangs out being inside the Earth. But it would be there in the same way that the Soviet Union was an "evil place" that existed during the cold war. It's a physical place tied to physical manifestations of evil. Your soul, if you were bad, isn't going to float out of your body, and then go down to the center of the Earth. And if you go to Heaven, you aren't going to be floating on a cloud up in the sky.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PBMax
Don't mistake laziness for unanswerable. We could have known last month if there was life on other planets if NASA hadn't decided to what they do all the time, and that was fuck the taxpayer and extend the missions so the whole mars explorer team can have job security for the next ten, twenty years. Its a well known fact that both those rovers had equipment for testing life actually on them before the launch. It was taken off for unknown reasons.
The fact is a lot of that stuff up there, and some stuff not up there (Human/cattle mutilations, free mason sutff) has been much more than a definitive amount of proof about them. But I cannot stress that if you are expecting to hear this on CNN, or have ABC pick this up and not either water it down, or ignore facts that have come from various confirmed sources about this, your sadly, sadly, mistaken. You watch when they do find that life was once on mars, it'll be on page seven, right next to the Anna Kornikova bends over in a tennis match story.
I'm sorry but I've already heard my share of bullshit from people staring at the naked emporer and telling me he's wearing clothes...
(Ex. People who saw the kecksburg crash showing up for a debriefing news conference and hearing the government state it was, "a weather balloon", listening to the witnesses state, that it made "sharp turns in the air and landed on the ground in a massive fireball of blue flame", hearing the government respond by saying, "weather balloons can't do that", then the people responding with a, "well what was it?", and the government repsonding with "a weather balloon.")
I would like to state though, that I do look at more than one side of every situation. I have never seen a bigfoot video I believed, or heard a lochness story I liked. I have looked into both sides of the aformentioned kecksburg crash, and I'm sorry, if one thing is true about that case, its that the government is really terrible at lying.
Long rant short...
These are the conclusions I've come to about these things.
I am not saying don't find your own. As matter of fact, by mentioning these things with a little rank by em to give an idea as to what I find worth looking into, I hope more people actually do. Anyway you look at it, there is something quite amazing going on here.
;)
Quite frankly I don't even consider life on other planets as a question. It exists, end of story.Quote:
Originally Posted by youandwhosearmy
As for Mars there's been strong evidence of the existance of water for many
years, so recent NASA announcements have been just stating the obvious.
Although mainstream media largely ignores these topics, I do think that if NASA does announce even single celled life, it would be on the front page of every paper. It's such a huge story with so much at stake including the reevaluation of religious beliefs worldwide.
I listen to Coast to Coast just about every night, and do my fair share of reading. That said, I just don't think there's a clear answer on many of the subjects you label as a hoax or as fact.Quote:
Originally Posted by youandwhosearmy
I'd sooner believe in Bigfoot (although there have been many obviius hoaxes presented as proof) before I buy Al Bielek's outrageous account of the Philadelphia Experiment. That's not to say the experiment didn't exist. I just have trouble with his story, although it certainly is a fun one.
Many of these just have no clear truth.
For example, when you label global warming causing an ice age in ten to twenty years as a clear hoax, I could counter with this, from science.nasa.gov.
"
A Chilling Possibility
By disturbing a massive ocean current, melting Arctic sea ice might trigger colder weather in Europe and North America.
March 5, 2004: Global warming could plunge North America and Western Europe into a deep freeze, possibly within only a few decades.
That's the paradoxical scenario gaining credibility among many climate scientists. The thawing of sea ice covering the Arctic could disturb or even halt large currents in the Atlantic Ocean. Without the vast heat that these ocean currents deliver--comparable to the power generation of a million nuclear power plants--Europe's average temperature would likely drop 5 to 10°C (9 to 18°F), and parts of eastern North America would be chilled somewhat less. Such a dip in temperature would be similar to global average temperatures toward the end of the last ice age roughly 20,000 years ago.
Some scientists believe this shift in ocean currents could come surprisingly soon--within as little as 20 years, according to Robert Gagosian, president and director of the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution. Others doubt it will happen at all. Even so, the Pentagon is taking notice. Andrew Marshall, a veteran Defense Department planner, recently released an unclassified report detailing how a shift in ocean currents in the near future could compromise national security.
"It's difficult to predict what will happen," cautions Donald Cavalieri, a senior scientist at NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center, "because the Arctic and North Atlantic are very complex systems with many interactions between the land, the sea, and the atmosphere. But the facts do suggest that the changes we're seeing in the Arctic could potentially affect currents that warm Western Europe, and that's gotten a lot of people concerned."
Ice is Key
There are several satellites keeping an all-weather watch on ice cover in the Arctic. NASA's Aqua satellite, for instance, carries a Japanese-built sensor called the Advanced Microwave Scanning Radiometer-EOS ("AMSR-E" for short). Using microwaves, rather than visible light, AMSR-E can penetrate clouds and offer uninterrupted surveillance of the ice, even at night, explains Roy Spencer, the instrument's principal investigator at the Global Hydrology and Climate Center in Huntsville, Alabama. Other ice-watching satellites, operated by NASA, NOAA and the Dept. of Defense, use similar technology.
The view from orbit clearly shows a long-term decline in the "perennial" Arctic sea ice (the part that remains frozen during the warm summer months). According to a 2002 paper by Josefino Comiso, a climate scientist at NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center, this year-round ice has been retreating since the beginning of the satellite record in 1978 at an average rate of 9% per decade. Studies looking at more recent data peg the rate at 14% per decade, suggesting that the decline of Arctic sea ice is accelerating.
Some scientists worry that melting Arctic sea ice will dump enough freshwater into the North Atlantic to interfere with sea currents. Some freshwater would come from the ice-melt itself, but the main contributor would be increased rain and snow in the region. Retreating ice cover exposes more of the ocean surface, allowing more moisture to evaporate into the atmosphere and leading to more precipitation.
Because saltwater is denser and heavier than freshwater, this "freshening" of the North Atlantic would make the surface layers more buoyant. That's a problem because the surface water needs to sink to drive a primary ocean circulation pattern known as the "Great Ocean Conveyor." Sunken water flows south along the ocean floor toward the equator, while warm surface waters from tropical latitudes flow north to replace the water that sank, thus keeping the Conveyor slowly chugging along. An increase in freshwater could prevent this sinking of North Atlantic surface waters, slowing or stopping this circulation.
AMSR-E is collecting new data that will help scientists evaluate this possibility. For one thing, it provides greatly improved ground resolution over previous all-weather sensors. AMSR-E images reveal smaller cracks and fissures in the ice as it breaks up in the spring. This detail allows scientists to better understand the dynamics of ice break-up, says Cavalieri, a member of the AMSR-E team.
Right: Sea ice disintegrating off the coast of Greenland on March 15, 2003, as seen by the older Defense Meteorological Satellite Program SSMI sensor (14 km resolution) and the newer AMSR-E (~5 km resolution). Smaller cracks not visible in the left image show up clearly in the right one.
"Other important pieces of the puzzle, like rainfall, sea-surface temperatures, and oceanic winds, are also detected by AMSR-E. Looking at those variables together should help scientists assess the likelihood of a change in the Atlantic currents," adds Spencer.
Deja Vu?
Once considered incredible, the notion that climate can change rapidly is becoming respectable. In a 2003 report, Robert Gagosian cites "rapidly advancing evidence [from, e.g., tree rings and ice cores] that Earth's climate has shifted abruptly and dramatically in the past." For example, as the world warmed at the end of the last ice age about 13,000 years ago, melting ice sheets appear to have triggered a sudden halt in the Conveyor, throwing the world back into a 1,300 year period of ice-age-like conditions called the "Younger Dryas."
Will it happen again? Researchers are scrambling to find out.
On Feb. 13, an expedition set sail from Great Britain to place current-monitoring sensors in the Atlantic Ocean that will check the Gulf Stream for signs of slowing. The voyage is the latest step in a joint US / UK research project called Rapid Climate Change, which began in 2001. Another international project, called SEARCH (Study of Environmental Arctic CHange), kicked off in 2001 with the goal of more carefully assessing changes in Arctic sea ice thickness.
Much depends on how fast the warming of the Arctic occurs, according to computer simulations by Thomas F. Stocker and Andreas Schmittner of the University of Bern. In their models, a faster warming could shut down the major Atlantic current completely, while a slower warming might only slow the current for a few centuries.
And, inevitably, the discussion turns to people. Does human industry play a major role in warming the Arctic? Could we reverse the trend, if we wanted to? Not all scientists agree. Some argue that the changes occuring in the Arctic are consistent with large, slow natural cycles in ocean behavior that are known to science. Others see a greater human component.
"The sea ice thawing is consistent with the warming we've seen in the last century," notes Spencer, but "we don't know how much of that warming is a natural climate fluctuation and what portion is due to manmade greenhouse gases."
If the Great Conveyor Belt suddenly stops, the cause might not matter. Europeans will have other things on their minds--like how to grow crops in snow. Now is the time to find out, while it's merely a chilling possibility.
"
Quote:
Originally Posted by shidoshi
but he loves you more than ur parints. so dont try comparing the love of god to the love of your parints. and he can forgive you for all your sins at any time. u just have to accept jesus christ as your personal savior and and ask him to come into your heart and ask him to forgive you of your sins.its that easy.
First, learn how to spell parents.Quote:
Originally Posted by BURN007
Second, that was exactly my point - that God loves us more than our parents. And because of that, it is ridiculous to think that God would ever send one of His children to a life of eternal punishment in Hell for acts that they did during their mortal life. We are like babies - we are so naive and frail and uncertain and confused in this mortal life. It is so very easy for us to go astray in this life due to all of the weaknesses of the physical world. God, not being stupid, would know that, and couldn't possibly hold us forever responsible for mistakes we make here.
It makes no sense that God would send down His "only son" (when we're all his children) to be tortured and die to rid us of sin, and then require that we "accept" Jesus in order to take part in that deal. That's the problem with humans and religion - we put all of these petty human emotions into the mix. You think God is that petty? That's so insulting to Him.
And what about the people in some back-ass country that has never heard of Jesus? They can't accept something they don't know, so are they just screwed? Or do you only have to accept Jesus if you've heard of him? That's a pretty silly clause, don't you think? And let's even say that we have concrete proof that Jesus said something like "No man comes to the Father but through me." That's no clearly stating that you have to "accept" Jesus - that could be saying that he came down and got rid of the stigma of sin so that everyone can now go to Heaven.
Again I say, it is the arrogance of man that we put such human emotions like vengence and whatnot on God. I think that is one of the biggest insults that we can toss towards God. And I feel a bit uneasy whenever people just pull "facts" from the Bible. How many people who call themselves Christians even know that much about the Bible? It was a book not written at all by Jesus, it was written not during his life but after his death, it was a "pick and choose" situation where other books were cast aside because they didn't fit in with the final "theme" for the book, Jesus' teachings were changed to less radical ideas when the Romans decided to look to Christianity as their new religion, and it has gone through numerous translations over the years - and anybody who knows ANYTHING about translating from one language to another knows that you can never, ever create a translation that perfectly expresses the meaning of the original language. So you take ALL of those factors into consideration, and THAT is what you based one of the most important decisions of your life - what your believe in God is - on? A mistranslated, edited, written after the fact book where the beliefs of the man it was based on were changed by the writers?
It pays to do some research on the topic. The life of Jesus - if you believe in him - is very similar to the life on Confusious. Both had followers who wrote down the teachings of the person after their death, but in both cases, the followers changed some things so that those teachings could be better used to serve their goals. One example when it comes to Jesus is that during his life, he believed that women were equal to men in all ways - that is part of the reason why he had so many female followers. However, you read the Bible, and that equality didn't quite stick so well, did it?
But that contradicts what you were saying above, doesn't it? How can we be sure?Quote:
Originally Posted by PBMax
I agree with you, of course, but I don't see why we are having this debate when we are pretty much on the same page.
Right, like I already said, the Europeons have photos that hundreds of geologists have looked at and come to terms with.Quote:
As for Mars there's been strong evidence of the existance of water for many
years, so recent NASA announcements have been just stating the obvious.
My point was that it was annoying to find out that NASA literally sent these well built, money pit, probes up to mars, to tell us something we already knew, with no way for them to test for life. Yes that was the Europeon Beagle's job, but I don't think it would have killed them to put some life testing specs on the other two.
I guess it would be on the front page, but would it be such a mind altering experience to read that single celled organisms are on mars, or were on mars?Quote:
lthough mainstream media largely ignores these topics, I do think that if NASA does announce even single celled life, it would be on the front page of every paper. It's such a huge story with so much at stake including the reevaluation of religious beliefs worldwide.
I don't really think it would considering a lot of people already believe this anyway.
Should I label them with importance than?Quote:
I listen to Coast to Coast just about every night, and do my fair share of reading. That said, I just don't think there's a clear answer on many of the subjects you label as a hoax or as fact.
I mean I'm expressing my viewpoints there. This is what I think about these subjects, after reading up on them, searching for documents, gov. stamped things, etc...
But I'm still open minded to it. If a bigfoot video were on the net tomorrow that was indisputable, I"d have to agree.
Y'know, I can see why you would. But I have a harder time believing in 8 foot tall missing link men, who from the many compeltely unorganized sources, could come from a ufo, turn into a deer in mid step, or disappear before people's eyes.Quote:
I'd sooner believe in Bigfoot (although there have been many obviius hoaxes presented as proof) before I buy Al Bielek's outrageous account of the Philadelphia Experiment. That's not to say the experiment didn't exist. I just have trouble with his story, although it certainly is a fun one.
I actually have a much easier time believeing that the government, in the 40's was dumb enough to fuck around with tesla coils, open air electricity, inside a metal hull of a ship sitting on the ocean.
I might have come off that way, but I don't remember ever stating anything worse than, Here's what i (keyword I) have found to be true or not and worth looking into. Me, not you, not anyone else. And I admit I could be wrong. Completely wrong. Anyone can be duped.Quote:
Many of these just have no clear truth.
But I still feel that way about these things.
Actually I was far to generalized with that statement.Quote:
For example, when you label global warming causing an ice age in ten to twenty years as a clear hoax, I could counter with this, from science.nasa.gov.
I meant it more in a, "It would have happened anyway", context. Global warming, while probably having sped it up 10 20 years, hasn't really contributed to our inability to stop it.
An interesting post to say the least.Quote:
Originally Posted by shidoshi
One thing, about the parent argument. The problem with that, is you are still assuming God thinks like people, like humans. It is like giving human love a number value, then multiplying it by 10. The insult is still there.
Most religions believe that God is the ideal, the perfect, and that which all things are derived from. Humans are not, we fall short of that, and are flawed. If those two things are true, then we can not understand Gods reasons or logic. It is beyond our capacity. You can't put two gallons of water into a gallon jug.
It is my belief that the concept of hell, and the way organized religion shows it are two different things. I don't think Jesus ever said God would send you to hell for your sins, and if he did, it wasn't written in each version of the Gospel. Such things were written by people, as they interpreted the works of God and Jesus.
I wish I could remember the verse and the exact text, but I'm pretty sure Jesus (if not him, maybe Paul) described Hell as being separated from God. As you could imagine, if you hold that God is the source of all life, happiness, and known existence you would experience something very much like the flaming hell and constant pain that the church teaches. You would lose a lot of who you are now, your ability to think, love, and feel joy. You would be spiritually dead. Again, assuming that God is the source of all these things.
Now, how do you relate that to primitive people? The Greeks and Romans both already had very spiritual beliefs and thus didn't need to many analogies to grasp it. That may also be why Paul believed more in faith, or at least wrote about it more than say Peter who preached heavily on works. They came from different cultural groups and each understood the works of jesus differently as such.
The Jewish religion and culture believes in laws big time. That was a big problem Jesus had during his travels were that the jews payed to much attention to the law and not the point of the law. That still caries over today. You have a lot of people who nit-pic the Bible on rules and laws but have virtually no real faith or spirituality. They just want a set of rules to go by so they can have their get out of hell free card.
It should also be said that the mixture of these two groups having influences on the NT is why Christianity stays so strong. No matter how basic or advance the culture gets there is always a writer and interpretation to use. When times get bad and society gets basic, people tend to gravitate to the old law and fire-n-brimstone. When things get good, and technology advances, suddenly things change and people start quoting the parts about love your fellow man, and turn the other cheek. People obey the law when things are bad, people are spiritual when they are good.
While I'm at it, I'd like to point out that the spirituality of Buddhism and Christianity are both very much alike. Both believe in levels of spirituality. Both believe in spirituality being like a wheel (though christianity doesn't describe it as a wheel).
You have a path to the ultimate goal, the ultimate good. The farther you get from the center you are, the worse off you are. The more basic, the more immoral, the most unspiritual. But the farther you get in, the smaller the path becomes, the more moral you become, and the more spiritual.
The difference however is in the way these religions teach the way to reach this goal. Christianity teaches that you do so through faith, and under a many interpretations through works in the material world. That the material effects the spiritual big time. Buddhism on the other hand teaches that you reach it through spiritual oneness (though it should be noted that early christianity used to do the same). Statistically, each favors one end of the spectrum, material vrs spiritual.
Ok, done with that rant.
My point is shidoshi, is that I think that the original concept of hell was to chose to not seek God and to separate yourself from him. This would cast yourself away from what is believed to be the source of joy and happiness. Primitive people and law based religions used the analogy of fire and brimstone to help their peoples understand this. Then organized religions took this and used it as negative reinforcement to try and make people be good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shidoshi
Most of this sounds like a weak cop-out to not take responsibility for my actions (to be honest, most of religion sounds that way to me as well. The rest sounds like weak attempts at making us feel important in the grand scheme of things). Anything I've ever done where I've been in the wrong, I've known it. Some I regret, some I don't. If I had to one day answer to a higher power for everything I've done, I'd like to think I wouldn't be a bitch and play the "we are so weak, forgive us" card... but I think that's one of those things you won't know for sure until you're there.
Anybody remember that big hoax with the camera or the big cave story hoax?
http://wwwsshe.murdoch.edu.au/inters...broderick2.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by youandwhosearmy
I had to.
Maybe, maybe not. Maybe the point of life is getting to the point where you realize that you shouldn't be good to avoid punishment, but because that's just the right thing to do. Isn't that how life normally is? As children, most rational kids don't do bad things because they don't want to get in trouble, get grounded, get spanked, whatever. But by the time you are an adult, hopefully you are trying to be a good person because you realize that it is the right choice.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzo
If you're following a religion and being good just to avoid Hell, I'd say you aren't being good for the right reason. It means more, if you ask me, if there is NO punishment for being bad, yet you still choose to be good.
Response to IronPlant coming later when I have more time.
There's no greater conceit than to presume to know the mind of God.
You should write fortune cookies.
Good question :pQuote:
Originally Posted by youandwhosearmy
Yes, it does appear we're on the same page here. I'll shutup now ;)
Likewise. Who wouldn't want to end their meal with a Icepick Brand fortune cookie?Quote:
Originally Posted by Icepick
"Consider a new career path. You worthless jackass."
or maybe:
"Love is in the air, cock smoker."
I'd buy them, anything has to be better than the "blow smoke up your ass" ones you get these days.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mode7
Good things are coming my way, my fucking ass.
I actually got a fortune cookie like that once.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mode7
It said "Fuck you".
Another good one: "You will die alone".
I concur, those guys that wear WWJD bands are narcissistic arseholes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mode7
"The BBQ Pork was actually stray cat"Quote:
Originally Posted by Icepick
well i think this thred is spent sence the last post had to deal with pork and stray cat.
this thread is done.
You're just saying that because you know that some of us are making far too much sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by BURN007
no. its just i cant make u change your mind so why bother.
God, that is so 16 of you. Jesus, what a lazy fuck.Quote:
Originally Posted by BURN007