The Genocide in Rwanda

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Originally Posted by Stone

You're wrong. Saddam's treatment of both the Kurds and the Marsh Arabs undoubtedly qualifies as genocide.

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No moreso than the Chinese treatment of the Tibetans. Funny isn't it? China has committed countless atrocities (they redefine Amnesity International's standards of defining crimes against humanity on a continual basis), proudly possess a stockpile of nuclear arms (far more numerous and sophisticated ones than North Korea will ever have), and are ruled by a totalitarian regime. Yet they aren't part of the "Axis of Evil?" The U.S.'s invasion may have had a altruistic benefit, but it was far from being the reason for it.

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Originally Posted by Stone

FYI, the war started for a number of reasons significantly more complicated than that.

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I think it's criminally simple what started the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan: petty revenge. Instead of using 9/11 as a wake-up call to overhaul what foreign policies the U.S. has bungled over the past decades, Bush and his group used it as a springboard to finish the war his father never could. No one has EVER brought for any evidence that ties al-Queda to Iraq or any Weapons of Mass Destruction post Gulf War '91. We had yet to even finish what we started in Afghanistan when we were already charging headlong into the mess that has become Iraq. Now, that country IS the central hub for international terrorism, thanks to us. Despite all the spin being spouted by the White House, there is no stable government to turn power over to this summer. When the US finally leaves Iraq, I'm afraid it'll be eerily reminiscent of how we left Vietnam.

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Originally Posted by Stone

The key reason terrorists survive is because they've learned to tap into the might of kid soldiers? You know how stupid that sounds?

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Not stupid at all. The point isn't that the terrorists are children, the point is that these children are being raised to do one thing; kill. How can you ever come back from something like that? You can't turn these child terrorists into farmers, doctors, scientists, or philosophers. They're raising a culture based entirely around killing through acts of terror. If that doesn't scare you, I don't know what will.

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Originally Posted by Stone

We could have and should have intervened then. Hell, Wolfowitz and most of the people who are currently being called neocons were pounding the drum for intervention in '94 too - Rwandan intervention.

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Wolfowitz, the rest of the Hawks in the PNAC, and even UN General Dallaire can say whatever they want in retrospect; when it happened, no Western nation made any move to intervene and didn't plan to. None of them were prepared to make the selfless sacrifice it would have taken to plunge into a murky bog of racial, political, and economic upheavel in Rwanda and make any sort of difference in time. I'm not blaming any of them, but I don't think we should tip our hat to them either.

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Originally Posted by g0zen

Instead of using 9/11 as a wake-up call to overhaul what foreign policies the U.S. has bungled over the past decades

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One would think the follow up attack by the Islamists in Spain following Labor's election victory would put paid to the notion that they hate us b/c of our policies.

One thing no one has mentioned here is that these events took place a year after
Somalia, that was a big determening factor in the lack of action by the West.
the dead of 14 soldiers stopped the west from preventing the dead of a million civilians.

We have failed the world and ourselves.

I know Belgium was, we are one of the only countries that officialy apologised as a nation as well(Bill Clinton apologised on his personal behalf after he left the white house).
And screw whoever that didnt give this the attention it deserves, the West prides itself on its democratic principels right?
Then it shouldnt compare itself to those who hold themselves to lower standards as an excuse to do nothing, one should remain vigilant and show the way.

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Originally Posted by Almaci

Its online on PBS, all frontline documentaries are.

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the regular ones are

http://www.pbs.org/frontlineworld/stories/index.html

but this was a Frontline 2 hour special, and the ones online are only the near half-hour ones. =\

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Originally Posted by JM

Good thing the US is "doing the right thing" in Iraq. Our government seriously disgusts me sometimes.

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I agree. Since this started in 1994, I guess Clinton was too busy banging fat, ugly interns, slugger.

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Originally Posted by station82o

the regular ones are

http://www.pbs.org/frontlineworld/stories/index.html

but this was a Frontline 2 hour special, and the ones online are only the near half-hour ones. =\

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Actually it should soon then.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

I agree. Since this started in 1994, I guess Clinton was too busy banging fat, ugly interns, slugger.

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yep, everyone seems to forget how many times billy boy himself dropped the ball in regards to that part of the world. Bush may never have had a skapegoet for going to war had Bill taken care of things the first few times american propertity was attacked or destroyed by terrorist.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

I agree. Since this started in 1994, I guess Clinton was too busy banging fat, ugly interns, slugger.

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No shit sherlock. I'm registered independent & I'm of the opinion that both parties are fundamentally corrupt. Your Republican Vs. Democratic bullshit doesn't mean a thing to me.

JM

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Originally Posted by IronPlant

yep, everyone seems to forget how many times billy boy himself dropped the ball in regards to that part of the world.

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No, everyone seems to forget how many times George Bush SENIOR dropped the ball when it was in plain sight. How many American lives and Iraqi lives would have been spared if Bush had followed up on his promise to help the Shi'ite and Kurdish uprising against Saddam's regime back in 1991? But, that is neither here nor there because we can't change the past. However, we can learn from it. Unfortunately, the White House doesn't share this opinion.

Rwanda is a tragedy, but no one can be blamed for not doing enough to stop it. By the time any significant Western force (be it UN or American) could have mobilized, the majority of the killing would have already taken place, and our soldiers would have only condemned themselves to fighting two fronts: the genocide being committed by the Hutu extremists, and the civil war already raging in the country.

The key to helping Rwanda isn't dwelling on the past, but helping them to build a better future.

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Originally Posted by g0zen

No, everyone seems to forget how many times George Bush SENIOR dropped the ball when it was in plain sight. How many American lives and Iraqi lives would have been spared if Bush had followed up on his promise to help the Shi'ite and Kurdish uprising against Saddam's regime back in 1991? But, that is neither here nor there because we can't change the past. However, we can learn from it. Unfortunately, the White House doesn't share this opinion..

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Well I was talking about 911 and how it could have been prevented if the Clinton adminstration had chosen to do something about Bin Laden and Al Qaeda . It isn't like both were magically made the day Bush was ellected. And it wasn't like they didn't attack and terroize things under his adminstration.

I fail to see how George Bush relates to 911.