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Quote:
Originally Posted by Almaci
This isn't all the fault of Europe and the US. This stuff has been going on in Africa for a very long time. All the war and whatnot that goes on in Africa is usually attributed to tribal conflict that goes back many many years ago. Part of the problem is the West, I will admit that, but it's not our fault this happens.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gohron
While I don't have any idea of Europe's and America's influence on Rwanda. I do know that Europe is the cause of the problems in Sri Lanka(where I came from). Europe came there and found a lot of minerals to excavate, they were friendlier with the tamils(a minority in comparison to the singalese) because of our lighter colour and hence put in higher positions in government. When the minerals ran out, they left control of the country to the tamils. And most of the civil war came from the hatred that generated due to that and the lack of resources available (we basically had to rely on selling rice and tea overseas and thus gave us a semi third world economy).
But then there is the issue of accountability, should you be responsible for the actions of your forefathers? There is only so much you can do before it falls on the hands of lets say "the victims" to resolve. Of course that is assuming you are taking correct measures to fix the problems.
ok swg sucked so i will contiue the fight, no, jm brought it up in the first place, them arjue did, i mentioned it as a lead in to my initial question. and you flew in..ignoring the full question of global responsabliity vurses self intrest,and just started rambling like and ass.Quote:
Originally Posted by Damian79
and ali, no, you really didnt prove anything, you linked me one piece of news from 6 years ago, check this link,particularly around november 2002 for a full timeline of the inspections, not just one bit out of context .this
and ali, what were you saying yes to, plese be a bit more clear with yoru responses, as i want to get your actual thoughts,and not misconstrue them. and i mentioned belgium (and south africa) merely out of completion to point out that the western leaders had not, asyou said, said nothing but had discussed the matter on the 10 year anniversery, contrary to ignoring i,as you say they did.
Gee I tought this: The mess africa is in is one that has been historically created by the US and Europe so it is our duty to make amends and do whatever we can to rectify it.
the atrocities that happen there today happen becouse that is the legacy we have left the continent with.
Would have settled my oppinion on the isseu so YES I do feel we need to be more involved in all of Africa.
Just do a google for palace inspections.
Nothing out of context there, before the gulf war as well he allowed the palaces to be inspected and agreed on all conditions set before him.
Are you drunk. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by frostwolf ex
But seriously, I didn't ignore your global responsibility versus self interest question or whatever, infact that was the only thing I answered.:p I was saying it was only self interest and had nothing to do with global responsibility. You were saying how the US was right to stop the murders etc. But the thing is that, it wasn't the reason you invaded Iraq or atleast it wasn't the reason why most of America was in agreement of the invasion.
As for stopping Saddam, it was indeed the best way to do it. But don't deny the alterior motives behind it, not to mention the deceit involved in convincing the American public to agree with it.
ok, then i see we almost agree, i differ on the concept that africa is solely the fault of us and europe, since that entirely absolves africans themselves of any responsability. intervention in dire situations is needed, but how long till you suspect that they can actually forge their own destiny and not fall back on what europe and us did in the past?
and in regards with the inspectors, did you click the link? the bbc paints the inspectors leaving, pre bombing, citing lack of iraqi cooperation, and the next show of cooperation comes in november 13 02, well after things had already started into motion and hussein refused to allow the inspectors full access. note particularly august 1 02. where is this compliant iraq you are pretending existed?
Last two points in the article:
Quote:
13 November 2002 Iraq's Government accepts the UN resolution.
18 November 2002: Hans Blix leads UN inspectors back to Baghdad to start their mission.
I clicked it, now that is one thing that translates complex elements into soundbites.Quote:
Originally Posted by frostwolf ex
not much use as every single one of those events had a history and Butler isnt exactly regarded too highly anymore.
And Damian yah that pretty much disproves Frostwolfexs no palace inspections claim as well, that and the hunderds of mainstream media sites reporting on the actual inspections taking place at his palaces etcetera in the build up to Gulf war2 when you do a google for palace inspections.
sorry, but dont drink alcohol at all, so not drunk, though i dont intend on asking for the difference between a port and a remake again. and no, you misread my question entirely, if you read it you saw that i DID question the proportion of the reaction of the us. but the question that was asked was about what was the correct responce since the us was "obviously" overstepping by intervening in iraq, but europe,and canada, and those who have so much to say, were fine for not lifting a finger in this case. you have given me a nice cynical answer about how everything we do is for self interest, i would love to hear how that applied to bosnia,where the us pledged troops to maintain the peace and gained no oil, land, or cash in return, but i was asking for something with a little more thought in it about what really constitutes appropriate response and who should bear the responsibility of maintaining security in the world, less about any specific instance and more in the broader sense. It was mostly a question for ali but whatsoever.Quote:
Originally Posted by Damian79
Not to mention media these days generally twist the truth a little to get the most response. I think they learn that in Basic Journalism 101. :p