Big train crash in north Korea

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Originally Posted by Gibbits

If this wasn't about Iraq then what the fuck were you talking about? I was responding to your snipe here, which , admit it or not, your intentions were to bring up Iraq, considering we've had debates about the issue in the past. If it wasn't about Iraq, which I'm sure you'll claim, then what the fuck were you talking about, consdidering you were responding to me, and I haven't ever aligned myself with what you said above.

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01. Country mistreats citizens.
02. Enlightened people say that this is terrible and "human rights abuses need to end".
03. But they wont be willing to take any action against the responsible parties because "the citizens have the right to self-rule" and "if they cant remove that fuckhead from power it's their problem".
04. If anyone goes in to remove said fuckhead then they're the bad guy because "the citizens didn't want it".

That's what I was talking about. The fact that the same people who trumpet the idea of an "international community" of countries and governments seemingly ignores gross human rights abuses against citizens because of the country's "right to self-rule". It's a glaring, awful contradiction, a stunningly barbaric hypocrisy which undermines everything those people say.

You would be wise to re-assess your viewpoints if you truly believe the type of stuff you said in this thread.

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Originally Posted by Gohron

Saddam didn't have as much power as Kim but he still held the same idealogy it maintaining power.

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Saddam was somewhat progressive, at least.

Women in Iraq, under his rule, were allowed to get a full university-level education. In most middle-eastern countries women aren't even allowed to go past Grade 5, or something like that.

But don't get me wrong, he was still a dick.

The key difference to the contradiction, though, is why a country steps in on another in the first place. It would be really nice if the US went to Iraq solely for the citizen's benefit, but it's very true that we had much to gain from the conflict, material and otherwise. Would we have stepped in otherwise? Who knows. But if the stunning lack of effort to aid many of the ailing African nations is any indication, the answer is most likely no.

It's not a moral observation, merely an explanation. All too often many people confuse the agenda put forth by themselves as humanitarians and the larger political agenda that an organized body like a government works toward.

That's all I'm interested in saying. This is a tragedy, though. A lot of people died needlessly.

ViciousJazz the USA sends an awful lot of money to Africa, and most of it gets gobbled up my warlords anyway. The reviled GWB announced an AIDs plan not too long ago in fact for Africa that goes far beyond anything Clinton, Bush, or Reagan ever proposed.

saw this on the news. Really heavy shit. Apparently, It may have been an assasination attempt, as Kim Jong Il was on that line only 9 hours before it.

Gibbits: you obviously don't know anything about the topic at hand or anything so shut the fuck up.

Jeez, those casualty numbers are eerily close to those of 9/11, an extra prayer goes out tonight to those poor people :(

What do you expect?

Someone asked a General in the DPRNC about the famine that goes on, his reply?

"We only need a million fed soldiers anyways."

Though, I'm all for going in with SF guys and blowing up the Pueblo.

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Originally Posted by arjue

saw this on the news. Really heavy shit. Apparently, It may have been an assasination attempt, as Kim Jong Il was on that line only 9 hours before it.

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According to the CNN link:

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Originally Posted by CNN

Kim only travels by train and all rail traffic would have been shut down in the area for several hours before and after he passed through the station, Chinoy said.

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If true, that would be a damn poor assassination attempt since it sounds while he's travelling it's insured there aren't any other trains on track.

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Gibbits: you obviously don't know anything about the topic at hand or anything so shut the fuck up.

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Yeah, what the hell was up your comments in here?

Geez, do we really need to start this bs now? Wait aleast a couple of weeks before you bitch about this in connection with the US.

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Originally Posted by diffusionx

isn't it the enlightened left that's supposed to know more about the world at large, not the cowboy right? LOL.

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Heh. Denizens of le Ivory Tower imagine the world as they believe it ought to be, not as it is.

And NK's brainwashing is the most effective ever. When Kim's dad died tens of thousands gathered in the massive plazas and wept, not at gunpoint, at his passing. A propaganda film at the time had an actor wailing, "Great Leader, is it true? Are you leaving w/o us?" One could make a snide comment about how death is the only escape from the 'Republic'. Unfortunately your avg NK citizen has no contact w/the outside world, though, unlike ppl in the Ivory Tower, it is through no choice of his own.