HR 4077 needs to be "Mashed"

http://www.boycott-riaa.com/article/11797

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Part of the article on Boycott-Riaa.com

http://www.publicknowledge.org/take-...26.7262188888/
Action Alert: Tell Your Congressman to “Mash” HR 4077!The recording industry and Hollywood are at it again! They want to rewrite copyright law (again) to lower the standard required for criminal enforcement of copyright infringement. The way the bill (HR 4077) is written could make the way you use iTunes and WiFi a crime.
Of course, it doesn't end there. The big media companies have also convinced Congress that ISPs need to track the activities of their subscribers and keep the information in a database that would be shared with the FBI and the Department of Justice. No subpoena or court order would be required--say good by to fair use and due process! Tell your Congressman and the House Judiciary Committee that enough is enough, and to vote against HR 4077.

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HR 4077 is yet more "Welcome to 1984: Big Brother Says Fuck the 4th Amendment" shit. ISPs should absolutely NOT be required to spy on their subscribers without just cause/due process.

This is kind've scary. The RIAA is like...the Stalinist movement up and coming in the US. They're getting an awful lot of power...

while i think the 1984 refrences are overboard, it is way too much power for a non-law enforcement group to have, so i shall mash away.

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Originally Posted by Gohron

This is kind've scary. The RIAA is like...the Stalinist movement up and coming in the US. They're getting an awful lot of power...

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Or like RIAA to the NAZIS. Same thing, different assholes.

Yet again, this doesn't affect me as I don't pirate anything. When more than 1% of people start getting in "trouble" for doing nothing wrong, I'll think about it ;p

Wait till they attack you for playing a CD that's been ripped onto your harddrive. :nod:

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Originally Posted by BoBVila

Yet again, this doesn't affect me as I don't pirate anything. When more than 1% of people start getting in "trouble" for doing nothing wrong, I'll think about it ;p

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My sentiments exactly.

It doesn't really matter who is doing what when where and why, it's the fact that we have rights and those rights are being taken away by a group of money mongers. "Rights? Who needs em? We have money to make!"

Just pass a law saying that all corporations have a right to profit by any and all means necessary. That'll save us years of legislation, lobbying and bellyaching over this "rights" crap.

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Originally Posted by BoBVila

Yet again, this doesn't affect me as I don't pirate anything. When more than 1% of people start getting in "trouble" for doing nothing wrong, I'll think about it ;p

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Originally Posted by Brisco Bold

My sentiments exactly.

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Did you not see the part that says, "The big media companies have also convinced Congress that ISPs need to track the activities of their subscribers and keep the information in a database that would be shared with the FBI and the Department of Justice."

This effects everybody, whether you "pirate" something or not. Do you REALLY trust the government with a copy of everything you might look up on the internet? Gee, you'd better not EVER even think about typing anything bad about the president on a message board, the secret service might end up knocking down your door.

"Gee, you'd better not EVER even think about typing anything bad about the president on a message board, the secret service might end up knocking down your door."

That happens already.

"Do you REALLY trust the government with a copy of everything you might look up on the internet?"

I don't really care either way. I have nothing to hide. It's not like they are going around willy-nilly. If they did come to me, what do you think they're going to do? Torture me or something?

They can already circumvent any "law" to achieve a goal. I'm not saying it is super-duper...but the effect of such things, in practice, doesn't blow up to some uncontrollable whirlwind of paranoia or anything.

It's like with red light cameras or something...everyone goes "big brother omg big brother"...but it hasn't changed my life at all. And neither will this.

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Originally Posted by BoBVila

I don't really care either way. I have nothing to hide. It's not like they are going around willy-nilly. If they did come to me, what do you think they're going to do? Torture me or something?

They can already circumvent any "law" to achieve a goal. I'm not saying it is super-duper...but the effect of such things, in practice, doesn't blow up to some uncontrollable whirlwind of paranoia or anything.

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They might label you a terrorist, provide no evidence other than a hunch and ship you off to a military base never to be heard from again. This is happening now.

Don't think that everyone in the government is looking out for your ass - some elected officials think and vote the way the money tells them to. And you, and I, and most everyone else in the nation doesn't have the money.

But you just said it yourself...they do that already. Either way, they aren't going to label me a terrorist. If they do, I will give you a trillion dollars. Promise ;p

It doesn't matter because the majority of the people whom this would affect are too lazy to write to their representatives and "have better things to do" than to vote. This is an election year, so they are more prone to listen to their consituents, but they don't hear anything so they'll pass this and all the other National Socialist-style "enabling" bills to help take away our rights.

Call your Senator: 202-224-3121
Write your Senator: http://www.senate.gov/general/contac...nators_cfm.cfm
Write your Rep: http://www.house.gov/writerep/
Register to vote: http://www.fec.gov/votregis/pdf/nvra.pdf

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Originally Posted by BoBVila

Blah blah blah

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Stop being so fucking complacent.

Really. "Well, it is allready happening, nothing I can do...might as well bend over and take it in my loose ass." Is that anyway to go about life?

Apparently so.

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Originally Posted by Mman

Really. "Well, it is allready happening, nothing I can do...might as well bend over and take it in my loose ass." Is that anyway to go about life?

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For the masses, yes.

Uh...it has nothing to do with bending over. My life DOES NOT CHANGE AT ALL. If you think yours does, good. You "mash" it. But don't expect everyone else to help you because you're overcome with cynicism. That's how the system works. You give me a good reason to mash it (and by good, I mean not dumb), and then I will be the first in line.

no shit your life doesnt change, your allready holding your ankles.

Uh...yeah...

Good reason, remember? Not you telling me what you think I'm doing. That doesn't hold water. Why would I do something because Mman or whoever else thinks I'm doing something I'm not? Doesn't make any sense at all.

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Originally Posted by BoBVila

Uh...yeah...

Good reason, remember? Not you telling me what you think I'm doing. That doesn't hold water. Why would I do something because Mman or whoever else thinks I'm doing something I'm not? Doesn't make any sense at all.

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Yeah, I am the one who does not make sense right.

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Originally Posted by Mman

no shit your life doesnt change, your allready holding your ankles.

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Damn streight. He doesn't give a damn over losing his rights anyway.

Glad you see it my way ;p Dude, not everyone who isn't actively opposing something that they don't think affects them in any way is indicative of ankle-holding. Give me one good reason why this would bother me. I'm serious.

The bottom line is if you're going to start throwing wild accusations and hypotheses around, give a reasonable basis for such and I would take it seriously.

Glad you see it my way ;p Dude, not everyone who isn't actively opposing something that they don't think affects them in any way is indicative of ankle-holding. Give me one good reason why this would bother me. I'm serious.

The bottom line is if you're going to start throwing wild accusations and hypotheses around, give a reasonable basis for such and I would take it seriously.

Well even if you don't care about this being a small issue, other people do have a problem with it and it's not just something they can turn a blind eye to.

I'll even dissect that letter to make it easier:

The bill would effectively criminalize the built-in music sharing features of Apple's iTunes, the market-leading online music store, as well as uses of WiFi technology. Additionally, HR 4077 could make the use of copyrighted works for criticism and education a crime.

Oops, don't give a hell, I don't use either

The Bill Takes Sharing My Information Too Far: The bill directs the FBI to facilitate the sharing of information among law enforcement agencies, Internet Service Providers (ISPs), and copyright owners concerning copyright infringement on the Internet. Essentially, content companies want ISPs to keep a database on their subscribers' online activities. It is disconcerting that at a minimum, the bill does not specify: what information ISPs may track; what information ISPs may share; or one single procedure that government agencies and / or copyright owners must comply with to gain access to the information. This is a violation of my privacy and my constitutional rights. The Digital Millennium Copyright Act set up specific procedures for obtaining information on alleged copyright infringers—procedures that protect my rights to privacy and due process. HR 4077 puts my constitutional rights in the hands of large content companies.

Uh oh, what are they going to do? Throw me in jail because I made a post saying what Mman says has no real basis? Guilty as charged!

If other people have a problem with the bill, that's fine. I'm not belittling them in any way. But I don't take issue with it, so I'm not going to fight in your crusade, unless you give me a good reason to.

Because we pride this country on being free? Because if we let the goverment invaid our lives what is to stop them from taking it to the next step? You have countries out there, like Singapore, that lock away people for up to two years for just suspicion of terrorism without any proof what so ever.

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Originally Posted by BoBVila

Oops, don't give a hell, I don't use either

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Then your posts have no use for this thread. ;)

Also, are you really so full of yourself that you only care about things that effect you? "Oh, racism, well, I am white, not black, so they can hang all those black people, it does not harm me?"

I like black people. Hanging them DOES affect me. Comparing these two things is ridiculous and disrespectful.

Anyway, this has gotten out of hand. If anyone has a good reason to give me, by all means do, but until then, bye

But you don't like freedom and personal privacy?

bob i am about complacent as they come, but the very basis for this law is flawed, its not just that it empoweres the government, i can live with that, its that it gives powers that arent even allowed to our law enforcement to coroprations. This is not about terrorism, its not even really about fair use, which i agree is usually a dodge people use to descibe piracy, it is about giving the movie and music industry the powers of the police, and that is totally unacceptable. wether its about pirates now or not, its giving too much power to a group that has no business with such power, and thats why it needs mashed.

The bill was another way of accusing civilians of terrorism, that's the problem and it's coming from corporations who care about their bottem line more then people, plus they already got their claws dug deep enough into the government not to give a crap.

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Originally Posted by frostwolf ex

wether its about pirates now or not

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Great to hear they still refer to copyright infringement as piracy when nobody has proven one god damn case yet.

But you yourself have admitted you pirate music. I believe you said something to the extent of "what they are charging is ludicrous, so I'll show them by pirating it". So whether they proved anything is irrelevant for *me*. I know there are plenty of people out there that are pirating music, and I know that of whatever number of lawsuits they have started, maybe 2 people were unfairly gone after. That happens even if you go through all of the hoops that supposedly make the system work anyway.

Are you sure you got the right poster? I can remember hearing someone else say that.

Btw, since when is sharing actually theft or selling off an artist's work for profit? We still got the law passed to record and hand out tapes/cassets etc to friends, family, etc etc.

So you really think that everybody needs to be monitored to protect corporations? Because the millions they make are not enough that they need to sue people much less wealthy then them?

Why do people that do not "pirate" music think they are some how above everybody else? Wrong, you are missing out. I download music, whenever I get the chance. I download as much as humanly possible. Why? To stick it to some corporation? No, to better myself. Because I love music and want to take in as much as possible. And because of this I can chose to support the bands that are truely doing something unique and who I think are worth it. How else are we supposed to be introduced to music? Through mtv or radios stations run by huge monopolies? No thanks, I do not want to be introduced to 2 or 3 new songs a week. Downloading is a tool, and yeah, it can be taken advantage of. But most of us dont. Most of the people who download love music, and somehow hurting musicians is the last thing on our minds.

PS: I buy about twice as much music as about anybody I know.

There was a study on how P2P affects CD sales in general and because people were buying what they were more interested in, nobody at the big lables were missing out.

The only reason they sue people is because they think they can make an industry with so-called "legit" downloads and will sue P2P users into scaring them and shifting consumer's listening habits for profit.

Generally, I haven't seen anything so neo-nazi as this in my life! First they claim infringement, then they start digging into Washington to take away the free use rights we busted our ass for.

None of which matters. Have you broken the law? Yes. I don't care one bit on your justification of such. I love games, but I'm not stealing them. You want to try out music? There are plenty of ways to do it legally.

Such as...

Such as borrowing the CD from a friend, for a start. And since you seem to be talking about less available music (as in not on MTV and such), all those sites with indy music. The RIAA isn't after you anyway. And if they are because you're getting their music, that is so widely available to hear without buying that what you're saying doesn't make sense.

So, it ok to download music as long as it is for small time time bands, not the ones supported by huge companies?

And I do borrow music from friends, occasionally. But like I said, I buy way more music than anybody I know, so they really are not often a great source for new music. And yeah, if there if they do offer some of their music up online I sure as hell do take advantage of it. A lot do not, plus I usually want to sample a larger portion of what is on a CD. Just being able to hear one song does not do me much good if that is the only good song on the CD.

"So, it ok to download music as long as it is for small time time bands"

If it's part of the licensing agreement, then yeah...some people encourage it.

"Just being able to hear one song does not do me much good if that is the only good song on the CD."

But that's how a lot of game demos work, unfortunately. It isn't unique to the music industry.

Anyway, if you buy more music because you download it, great. I'm glad (not sarcastic here). But the fact of the matter is that most people don't. Most people get the music for free, often having the intention of buying it, but then saying "hey, I got what I wanted so no need to pay for it". And maybe the RIAA sometimes goes after the wrong person (like if they went after you). But that doesn't change the fact that they have a right to profit, even if they get paid obscene amounts of money. I don't think most NFL players deserve what they make (and I love the sport). iF IT BOTHERED ME THAT MUCH, THOUGH, THE ONLY OPTION i HAVE TO CHANGE THAT IS TO NOT PAY THEIR SALARY (aw stupid caps lock, not rewriting that). I pay their salary, after all. WE (as in the consumers) do. If people wanted to stop the RIAA, they would stop listening to the music under their umbrella. Pirating it doesn't do anything. Just gives them more money, because I'm not going to stop them from taking the guilty parties away ;p What right do I have to do that?

Ok, Ill agree with you, people who simply pirate music are wrong. Steps are needed to prevent this. But this is not the way to do it. Attacking the people who LIKE your music is just wrong, in any sense. The problem of pirating is indicative of an overall larger problem that has been present in the industry for some time. That most people do not have the option to listen to a wide variety, that they get the same little package all across the country. Yeah, lots of people download for the sole intent of stealing, but I guarentee JUST as many download just for exposure, and most over lap somewhere in between. I support the downloading of music because it will eventually lead to the destruction of the RIAA, but not because people are downloading instead of buying. People will eventually figure out there is other stuff out there, but people are not going to figure out overnight that "Hey, all these music they are giving us really is not so good...there is some amazing stuff out there". And downloading is the first step in a process that will eventually lead to the appreciation of a much wider selection of music, and music as a whole will profit, not some damned corporation. That is what I want. And this bill would more then hinder that.

Might my idea be radical? Probably a little illegal too. But like anything that has been done great in this country the goverment has initially opposed it, and somebody had to break the law to show that the law is unjust.

" People will eventually figure out there is other stuff out there, but people are not going to figure out overnight that "Hey, all these music they are giving us really is not so good...there is some amazing stuff out there"."

I can definitely relate to that...I say that about games all the time. But I still don't understand how downloading music tied to the RIAA destroys the RIAA. Sharing music that isn't well known and not tied to them WOULD because it spreads...but like I said before, that isn't illegal (at least, not if whoever made the music says it's not).

And for me, the best way to stick it to the man so to speak would be to not have anything to do with them.

It does not destroy the RIAA. But you seem to think that most people make a distinction between RIAA music and Independent music. They do not. Hell, I am really into music and I do not know sometimes whether a label is under the RIAA umbrella or not. People just share music, and if they are afraid that sharing music will get them arrested then they are not going to do it all together. Therefore everybody, especially small independent bands that really depend on the interenet for exposure, are going to be hurt the most.

There is a reason there is a larger underground music movement going on right now, and that it is continuing to shift in that direction. It is the internet.

OK, I can agree with that. That makes a lot of sense. Unfortuately, though, these people downloading music are downloading stuff like 50 Cent and blah blah blah, and NOT the lesser known stuff not covered in their umbrella. And I would certainly hope that any attack on them by the RIAA wouldn't stop them from what they are legally allowed to do. It is just kind of wierd when I see, for example, some signs around campus saying things like "Do you want your voice to be heard on your rights to download whatever music you want whenever you want?" How do you answer Yes to that when you don't have that right. It's just that most people are mad they can't download 50 Cent. It's all about the G-Unit ;p

But hey, good point. I can attest to that. THAT is something I can identity with and use to mash ;p